Non-motoring > The C.I.A. and torture. Miscellaneous
Thread Author: Dutchie Replies: 110

 The C.I.A. and torture. - Manatee
There is the other minor point that torture is illegal under the UN Convention Against Torture -

Article 2
1. Each State Party shall take effective legislative, administrative, judicial or other measures to prevent acts of torture in any territory under its jurisdiction.
2. No exceptional circumstances whatsoever, whether a state of war or a threat of war, interal political instability or any other public emergency, may be invoked as a justification of torture.
3. An order from a superior officer or a public authority may not be invoked as a justification of torture.


- which presumably the USA and UK subscribe to. Perhaps the let-out here is "territory under its jurisdiction".

The Geneva Conventions seem more complex and qualified, and indeed the George W Bush administration seems to have taken advantage of that:

GCIII covers the treatment of prisoners of war (POWs) in an international armed conflict. In particular, Article 17 says that "No physical or mental torture, nor any other form of coercion, may be inflicted on prisoners of war to secure from them information of any kind whatever. Prisoners of war who refuse to answer may not be threatened, insulted or exposed to unpleasant or disadvantageous treatment of any kind." POW status under GCIII has far fewer exemptions than "Protected Person" status under GCIV. Captured combatants in an international armed conflict automatically have the protection of GCIII and are POWs under GCIII unless they are determined by a competent tribunal to not be a POW (GCIII Article 5).
GCIV covers most civilians in an international armed conflict, and says they are usually "Protected Persons" (see exemptions section immediately after this for those who are not). Under Article 32, protected persons have the right to protection from "murder, torture, corporal punishments, mutilation and medical or scientific experiments...but also to any other measures of brutality whether applied by non-combatant or military agents".

Geneva Convention IV exemptions

GCIV provides an important exemption:

Where in the territory of a Party to the conflict, the latter is satisfied that an individual protected person is definitely suspected of or engaged in activities hostile to the security of the State, such individual person shall not be entitled to claim such rights and privileges under the present Convention [ie GCIV] as would ... be prejudicial to the security of such State ... In each case, such persons shall nevertheless be treated with humanity (GCIV Article 5)

Also, nationals of a State not bound by the Convention are not protected by it, and nationals of a neutral State in the territory of a combatant State, and nationals of a co-belligerent State, cannot claim the protection of GCIV if their home state has normal diplomatic representation in the State that holds them (Article 4), as their diplomatic representatives can take steps to protect them. The requirement to treat persons with "humanity" implies that it is still prohibited to torture individuals not protected by the Convention.

The George W. Bush administration afforded fewer protections, under GCIII, to detainees in the "War on Terror" by codifying the legal status of an "unlawful combatant". If there is a question of whether a person is a lawful combatant, he (or she) must be treated as a POW "until their status has been determined by a competent tribunal" (GCIII Article 5). If the tribunal decides that he is an unlawful combatant, he is not considered a protected person under GCIII. However, if he is a protected person under GCIV he still has some protection under GCIV, and must be "treated with humanity and, in case of trial, shall not be deprived of the rights of fair and regular trial prescribed by the present Convention" (GCIV Article 5)
 Messages Author Date
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Dutchie 10 Dec 14 20:56
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Zero 10 Dec 14 21:21
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Bromptonaut 10 Dec 14 21:23
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Lygonos 10 Dec 14 21:24
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Bromptonaut 10 Dec 14 21:35
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Fullchat 10 Dec 14 21:41
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Old Navy 10 Dec 14 22:43
 The C.I.A. and torture.  CGNorwich 10 Dec 14 22:52
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Old Navy 11 Dec 14 16:06
 The C.I.A. and torture.  CGNorwich 11 Dec 14 20:18
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Old Navy 11 Dec 14 20:56
 The C.I.A. and torture.  No FM2R 11 Dec 14 20:58
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Old Navy 11 Dec 14 21:04
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Zero 11 Dec 14 21:09
 The C.I.A. and torture.  No FM2R 11 Dec 14 21:11
 The C.I.A. and torture.  No FM2R 11 Dec 14 21:16
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Zero 11 Dec 14 21:29
  
 The C.I.A. and torture.  No FM2R 11 Dec 14 21:36
  
 The C.I.A. and torture.  CGNorwich 11 Dec 14 21:49
 The C.I.A. and torture.  No FM2R 11 Dec 14 21:52
 The C.I.A. and torture.  CGNorwich 11 Dec 14 22:02
 The C.I.A. and torture.  No FM2R 11 Dec 14 22:03
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Armel Coussine 10 Dec 14 22:56
 The C.I.A. and torture.  CGNorwich 10 Dec 14 23:04
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Armel Coussine 10 Dec 14 23:13
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Zero 10 Dec 14 23:05
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Armel Coussine 11 Dec 14 00:36
 The C.I.A. and torture.  No FM2R 11 Dec 14 14:55
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Dutchie 11 Dec 14 15:57
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Armel Coussine 11 Dec 14 16:41
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Armel Coussine 11 Dec 14 16:52
 The C.I.A. and torture.  No FM2R 11 Dec 14 21:34
 The C.I.A. and torture.  MD 11 Dec 14 21:39
 The C.I.A. and torture.  No FM2R 11 Dec 14 21:47
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Armel Coussine 12 Dec 14 00:45
 The C.I.A. and torture.  No FM2R 12 Dec 14 01:16
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Armel Coussine 12 Dec 14 11:27
 The C.I.A. and torture.  WillDeBeest 12 Dec 14 12:28
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Lygonos 12 Dec 14 12:39
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Armel Coussine 12 Dec 14 12:50
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Fullchat 12 Dec 14 13:03
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Westpig 12 Dec 14 18:19
 The C.I.A. and torture.  WillDeBeest 12 Dec 14 18:40
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Armel Coussine 12 Dec 14 18:49
 The C.I.A. and torture.  madf 12 Dec 14 19:06
 The C.I.A. and torture.  No FM2R 12 Dec 14 19:38
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Zero 12 Dec 14 20:24
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Westpig 12 Dec 14 23:12
  
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Manatee 12 Dec 14 23:32
  
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Westpig 13 Dec 14 10:16
  
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Zero 13 Dec 14 12:01
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Westpig 13 Dec 14 20:38
 The C.I.A. and torture.  No FM2R 13 Dec 14 20:42
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Fullchat 13 Dec 14 20:58
 The C.I.A. and torture.  No FM2R 13 Dec 14 21:02
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Westpig 14 Dec 14 11:43
 The C.I.A. and torture.  No FM2R 14 Dec 14 17:49
 The C.I.A. and torture.  sooty123 14 Dec 14 18:09
 The C.I.A. and torture.  No FM2R 14 Dec 14 18:25
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Westpig 14 Dec 14 18:39
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Lygonos 14 Dec 14 19:06
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Westpig 14 Dec 14 21:14
 The C.I.A. and torture.  sooty123 14 Dec 14 18:46
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Westpig 14 Dec 14 19:00
 The C.I.A. and torture.  No FM2R 14 Dec 14 17:50
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Armel Coussine 14 Dec 14 18:25
 The C.I.A. and torture.  No FM2R 14 Dec 14 18:30
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Westpig 14 Dec 14 18:53
 The C.I.A. and torture.  No FM2R 14 Dec 14 20:40
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Westpig 14 Dec 14 21:19
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Fullchat 14 Dec 14 21:32
 The C.I.A. and torture.  No FM2R 15 Dec 14 13:57
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Manatee 15 Dec 14 14:19
 The C.I.A. and torture.  No FM2R 15 Dec 14 14:35
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Manatee 15 Dec 14 14:40
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Westpig 15 Dec 14 19:20
 The C.I.A. and torture.  No FM2R 15 Dec 14 20:08
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Lygonos 15 Dec 14 20:13
 The C.I.A. and torture.  No FM2R 15 Dec 14 20:23
  
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Lygonos 15 Dec 14 20:32
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Fullchat 15 Dec 14 20:35
  
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Lygonos 15 Dec 14 20:46
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Manatee 15 Dec 14 20:29
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Westpig 15 Dec 14 20:46
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Zero 13 Dec 14 21:02
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Westpig 14 Dec 14 11:49
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Zero 14 Dec 14 12:09
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Westpig 14 Dec 14 16:16
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Armel Coussine 13 Dec 14 21:29
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Armel Coussine 14 Dec 14 01:03
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Westpig 14 Dec 14 11:51
  
 The C.I.A. and torture.  MD 11 Dec 14 19:14
 The C.I.A. and torture.  MD 11 Dec 14 19:08
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Roger. 11 Dec 14 20:02
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Manatee 12 Dec 14 13:29
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Armel Coussine 12 Dec 14 13:45
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Manatee 13 Dec 14 13:37
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Dutchie 14 Dec 14 18:53
 The C.I.A. and torture.  madf 15 Dec 14 14:10
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Lygonos 15 Dec 14 17:02
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Fullchat 15 Dec 14 17:26
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Westpig 15 Dec 14 19:01
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Lygonos 15 Dec 14 19:11
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Westpig 15 Dec 14 19:28
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Westpig 15 Dec 14 19:31
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Lygonos 15 Dec 14 19:35
 The C.I.A. and torture.  MD 15 Dec 14 19:38
  
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Lygonos 15 Dec 14 19:49
  
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Lygonos 15 Dec 14 19:36
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Zero 15 Dec 14 20:36
 The C.I.A. and torture.  Lygonos 15 Dec 14 20:43
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