see greece finally got the bowl out tonight
about time
any opinions?
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i should of added the imf loan facility was a last ditch shore up which the eu hoped wouldnt be needed
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we are not in the euro, and nearly as badly in debt as the bubbles.
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we might not be in it but this last 24 months i wished we were
however
the bigger picture is now greece
then portugal
then eira?
what next
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just read all the bbc bumfluff
i wish a decent alternative was availabubble
not even a mention of spain and all its problems............
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What's Eira done - name of the wife's friend that !
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Don't they refer to these countries as the PIGS - Portugal, Ireland, Greece and Spain.
I don't think the Euro is kaput because of the other countries but this is still not looking good for Greece. The agreed loans was meant to be there as a last resort and in no time at all they are using it!
I just hope there's no general strike in Greece from 1st May to 15th May.... because that's where I'll be.
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Sterling was in the same boat 30 years ago, and seems to have survived (up to now).
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>>Sterling was in the same boat 30 years ago, and seems to have survived (up to now).>>
Around that time (in fact 1976), the Labour government was attempting to overcome inflation peaking at 26.9 per cent and reduced to asking the IMF for a £2.3bn loan.
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As soon as the IMF standby was announced it became a self-fulfilling prophecy. The speculators started betting against the Euro, the Greek Govt bond yields went up, and the roof fell in.
In other words, the availability of the loan made sure the bubbles would pop and the euro sink.
And if the IMF conjure up a package for Portugal that domino will fall over as well.
Apparently.
It may be that not being in the Euro will be what saves us from the same fate.
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I've got a bit of cash saved up.....I wonder if there are any cheap Greek islands going ?
Paxos would do nicely.
Ted
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dont buy it
they tried to stuff me with it last week
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I have a nice bridge for sale?
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>> I have a nice bridge for sale?
>>
>>>>>>>> i thought the queen eb wasnt for sale till after the election?
you comrade is how we say ?
in bigs trouble
we only just got over talking this people into paying more after is was how you say paid up
blueswater shopping is how we say in ikea bigs mess
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I just bought some euros for my hols!
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have you got a suitcase large enough for them?
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>> have you got a suitcase large enough for them?
>>
We bought euros last weekend for our hols. We'd have got an extra €2.5/£100 today. I won't lose sleep because we did it when we had the time to do it.
I also need to buy a new suitcase for our holidays... other one has a broken handle. Sods law says the volcano goes off again!
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>> I just bought some euros for my hols!
Isn't that just an imported MX5?
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:-) Or is that a Eunos... or Miarta.
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I hope not!
A weak Euro is great when I visit the UK though :-)
Joe in Germany
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breaking news-a...........................................
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8647441.stm
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Just remember that a certain party leader, who's Mother is Dutch and who's Father is half Russian is rather fond of the €uro.
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the dungs-a now flying
buy gold
or should i say
you should-a bought gold
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>> Just remember that a certain party leader who's Mother is Dutch and who's Father is
>> half Russian
Which obviously means he'd do ANYTHING to deliberately screw up Britain. Send 'em all home, eh?
Do get a grip. What a pathetically "Little Englander" comment.
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>> breaking news-a...........................................
>>
>>
>> news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8647441.stm
The thing is that "junk bond" is a bit of a misnomer, it really just means that it isn't one of the very safest ratings. Having a BB rating hardly means that you are very likely to default. As a comparison some Royal Bank of Scotland bonds are BB, they've had a tough time, but are very unlikely to not meet their bond payments.
So are some Del Monte, JC Penney, Marriott, Macy's, and many other big names. I can't see any that have a yield of 15%, seems like a typical overreaction to market news.
It is likely that they'll get the aid package they need and, if so, then the people that bought bonds with a 15% yield will be laughing.
Today I started buying National Bank of Greece stock, so I hope I'm right...
"buy when there is blood in the streets" :)
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>> Today I started buying National Bank of Greece stock so I hope I'm right...
>>
>> "buy when there is blood in the streets" :)
Well, that's up about 20% in two days...still I ain't exactly going to retire on what I made, so who's next for a crisis? :)
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>> so who's next for a crisis
Portugal, Ireland, Italy and Spain.... and the UK.
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>> >> so who's next for a crisis
>>
>> Portugal Ireland Italy and Spain.... and the UK.
I reckon that Ireland and the UK have already had the worst and will gradually come out of it. Perhaps a meltdown in Portugal, Ireland and Spain though, but if they bail Greece out, few people will fear that the rest will be left hanging.
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I bet the Germans are thrilled. They finish paying for East Germany, now they get to pay for Greece. Greece, and probably Italy, had the rules bent to let them in. So that's Merkel out at the next election and a clamour from the German's to get out. End of Euro then as there is no one left to pay for it. Of course if their politicians are like ours there's no chance of leaving.
JH
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>> I bet the Germans are thrilled. They finish paying for East Germany
It could be worse. I would be wary about investing in anythng to do with korea. The expectation is that some time in the future, the Chinese will be gearing up to kill the south korean economy. They are gonna do this by bringing down Kim Jong-il and the DPRK. the cost and agravation of reunifying the koreas will kill the south for years.
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Well I still have around 600 Euros left over in the safe from last years holiday in Crete. We found everything a lot cheaper there.
The real Greeks , especially the Cretan mountain men are the most hospitable and friendly people I know.
We stayed in a mountain village where you got a huge Greek salad or a huge plate of lamb chops with chips for 4.50 Euros and one or other was quite a perfectly acceptable lunch for two.
Draught local beers were around 1 Euro each or a 1/2 litre carafe of good local wine at 3 Euros . On the coast at ' Little Britain ' resorts such as Malia you could double those prices but even those prices bear comparison with the UK.
I'm heading back there for a holiday in a few weeks so I'm doing my best to support them.
I'll let you know how the prices have changed next month
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Volcanoes permitting, I'm off to a Greek island for two weeks this Saturday. I hope the local businesses are doing okay.
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>I'm heading back there for a holiday in a few weeks so I'm doing my best to support them.<
Best order your drachmas now...
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the bubble is getting bigger
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>>the bubble is getting bigger<<
Yes! ... I didn't reply to comrade Alanovićs rant as I welcome anyone to Little England who is prepared to get orf their backsides, like he obviously does.
But - I see the wishy washy Lib-Dems as pro €uro and the way I see it in my unedumacated way is that the Euro is in turmoil, and it looks like its gonna get worse so I for one would like to hang on to the pound sterling thank you very much.
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I don't disagree on the principle of keeping the pound, Dog. But I do object to the implication that there's something wrong with Comrade Clegg because his parents are foreign types. That's how your original post read to me, anyway. The only consequence of his parentage in my book is the likelyhood that it gives him a more sympathetic view of the world outside of our island, makes him a broader minded person.
I'm British born myself (I point this out as your post seems to imply I'm an incomer), but of partly immigrant (Maltese in my case) parentage, as I suspect are huge amounts of Brits. Michael Howard, for instance? I don't remember his parents' nationality leading to implications of anti-British policies. Mrs A is an immigrant who contributes handsomely to the Exchequer. As do the vast majority, despite what one may read.
The Lib Dems are pro-Euro, but only when the conditions are right for Britain. Don't see anything anti-British about that. I also think the "wishy-washy" branding as tired stereotyping. According to the right-wing press, the City is terrified of them. And they're supposed to be hard nuts, not easily scared by "wishy-washy" people.
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>>I'm British born myself (I point this out as your post seems to imply I'm an incomer), <<
Incomer (hehe!) that's what I'm refereed to here in Cornwall + foreigner, even an un-natural :-D
I apologize to anyone who read my post as being anti-foreign types,
Britain is made up of foreign types, for the last 2000 years anyway.
And as for the wishy washy's, that was TIC really, and anyway - they're all blimmin wishy washy IMO
Bring back Lloyd George ... ere, hang on - he was a Lib :)
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Can someone explain why it is better to have a currency like the £ that can be devalued at will by the government thus effectively reducing the value of the populations savings and wages rather than having a fixed currency like the Euro that forces the government and population to live within its means and exposes the reality of the situation the country is in?
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>>Euro that forces the government and population to live within its means and exposes the reality of the situation the country is in?
Because it only works if everyone obeys the rules. The rules were bent to allow the PIGS in in the first place, and it turns out the Greeks were fiddling the figures to even reach the bent rule allowances. Its just like the French and farm subsidies, and many other oddities where we obey the letter of the law but everyone else bends the rules to their own purpose.
(Rant over - and I'm a card carrying wishy washy liberal at heart...)
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The point I was making was that if Greece was not part of the Eurozone they would do what they have always done in the past, devalue the Greek currency thus effectively stealing from investors. Its an easy option and is what the UK government have done. Any sterling investments you had 18 months ago is now worth only 75% of its former valued when expressed in other currencies.
Not having this option forces the Greek government to face reality to cut the deficit and make real changes to the economy no matter how uncomfortable they are rather than taking the easy dishonest solution.
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>>Can someone explain why it is better to have a currency like the £ that can be devalued at will ...rather than having a fixed currency like the Euro
The Euro is no more or less fixed than the £. They are both floating currencies. Governments can try to manage their exchange rate, in theory at least, by buying or selling their currency or tinkering with interest rates.
The problem with Clegg's idea that you only go in to the Euro when economic conditions are right is that if economic performance diverges again, it becomes 'wrong' and there's nothing to be done. Ireland is an economic train crash - not many years ago it was overheating madly and needed a hike in interest rates, but was stuck with the low Euro rate.
You can't have monetary union without political union. There is only one Euro interest rate, and if it's not the one your country needs you've a problem.
The Norwegians had the right idea.
Last edited by: Manatee on Thu 29 Apr 10 at 22:42
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apparently once these austerity measures are finalised tomorrow ,50% of Greeks will be revolting according to one source
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its coming..................................
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"50% of Greeks will be revolting "
That's a reduction then? :-)
SORRY! JOKE!! :-) Very nice people. Haven't invaded anyone for thousands of years. Other countries should follow their example.
JH
Last edited by: Tooslow on Sun 2 May 10 at 10:30
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IMO Greece is just a taste for us of the way it could be be in a few years. I know on the old site there was some doom and gloom about where this recession will take us, and I now tending to agree - that we are ending up with a polarised society of people who have done well for themselves and a much larger (and growing) number of those who are permanently unemployed and have no prospects which will create an unprecedented degree of civil unrest and law-breaking.
So, with most of the nice bits of Europe now under economic gloom, where does one escape to?
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So, with most of the nice bits of Europe now under economic gloom, where does one escape to?
Israel!
The country had its own banking crisis in the 1980s as a result of which all banks were nationalised. When they were privatised a few years later the conditions were such that they suffered almost no losses at all on the sub-prime fiasco and had very healthy balance sheets to deal with minor defaulting.
Currently their interest rate is 3.75% as they have modest inflation and have no worries about stifling a recovery as they never went into recession. The economy is based principally on high technology exports of software and patents with much of the hardware you use regularly containing some Israeli developed technology in terms of security or chip design.
In other words, an economy that could remain reasonably stable for many years. At the moment the shekel is so strong compared to Euro, Sterling or Dollar that it is hurting tourism.
Last edited by: Espada III on Sun 2 May 10 at 12:10
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I dare say the $3Billion Israel receives from the USA comes in mighty handy hey comrade Espada 111
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...receives from the USA comes in mighty handy...
And a few banks of Scud missiles pointing outwards.
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Yes not suprised Israel is doing so well. All the money poured into it from expats around the world draining money from their local economy into israel.
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Oh and BTW the mossad stole most of Israels high tech industry from other places.
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 2 May 10 at 17:47
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I don't think so. Maybe in the 1950s, but you are half a century out of date.
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Put it this way. Where do you want to live if not the UK?
I know where I want to and its not just for religious or politico-religious reasons. Do ask me to justify it as I am biased. Ask all the non-zionists (I don't mean anti - just those with no view on the matter) about their trips and seen if they don't like it there.
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>> Put it this way. Where do you want to live if not the UK?
Australia, New Zealand, France, Holland,
>> I know where I want to and its not just for religious or politico-religious reasons.
>> Do ask me to justify it as I am biased. Ask all the non-zionists (I
>> don't mean anti - just those with no view on the matter) about their trips
>> and seen if they don't like it there.
Of course its a nice place to visit, but would I live there? No a hope. Its has far too many home bred fanatics ruining it, and far too many arab fanatics hoping to nuke it. Does it have a future of any kind, let alone a stable one? Its questionable
Would I set up a family there? Only if I was completely and utterly round the twist.
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>> Of course its a nice place to visit but would I live there? No a
>> hope. Its has far too many home bred fanatics ruining it
Bit of an difference there, Holland and home bred fanatics in the same post. Pim Fortuyn and his early exit spring to mind.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sun 2 May 10 at 20:25
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Perhaps you should tell various countries security forces then who all list MOSSAD, along side the Chinese as the worlds most prolific CURRENT industrial spies.
Israeli technology is is not actually that financially stable, all of them (non military) are funded by the US technology giants.
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two of the measures to save money in greece if the plan is accepted by all eu states to the loans
Increasing VAT from 21% to 23%
Raising taxes on fuel, alcohol and tobacco taxes by 10%
glad i dont live there.................
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>> Increasing VAT from 21% to 23%
>>
That is within the EU agreement. Any country can set VAT at 25% and still be withint "the rules", even the UK.
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I would suggest that anyone misguided enough to consider voting for another 5 years of New Labour
could listen to this business weekly item.
My wife and I are childless, mortgage free and dept free, but we've already voted Conservative
for your children and your children's children's future.
www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p00795yp/Business_Weekly_The_Age_of_Austerity_But_will_there_be_Riots/
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Putting UK politics aside for a moment what of the Spanish economy ?
Who owns the major UK airports. It was already well documented about the refinancing predicament Ferrovial Group had.
Last edited by: gmac on Sun 2 May 10 at 21:31
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>> Putting UK politics aside for a moment what of the Spanish economy ?
>> Who owns the major UK airports.
And large chunks of your banking system.
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"I would suggest that anyone misguided enough to consider voting for another 5 years of New Labour"
I don't think you could put a cigarette paper between the views of Cameron and Tony Blair.
You will get new labour under a new name
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>> Increasing VAT from 21% to 23%
Whoever wins the election this week, we can expect a VAT hike in the UK to around 20% before long ourselves....
Where else to live?
Rural France? The French seem to do OK for themselves. Sweden? Not in the Euro and lots of lovely empty countryside to live in. Bit cold though, granted.
Guess where I've ended up..?! I might even stay here if they let me :-) You don't slip through the NZ Immigration net very easily...
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is it safe yet?
do i need to get large suitcases to hold denominations?
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is the euro kaput - Bellboy
