Now eyeing up 4-seater convertibles other than SAABs...
Choice of 2 2005 A4 Convertibles, both just under 50,000 miles, both silver, one 10% pricier than the other:
- a 2.4 petrol (at a Mitsubishi main dealer)
- a 3.0 petrol quattro (the pricier one!) at an Audi main dealer
Presumably performance and mpg will be similar for either of them? I imagine the extra power of the 3-litre to be sapped by the 4WD gubbins and the extra weight?
I also presume the Audi dealer is charging a higher price simply because it's their own brand on their own forecourt, with Audi 100-point warranty blah-blah.. etc?!
Anything inherently bad/wrong about either powerplant?
What would be your preference? Worth paying 10% more for the 3-litre Quattro?
I plan to go and view both within the next few days, and see if there is a huge difference in condition etc. Thanks in advance!
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Performance of the 3.0 will be greater despite the Quattro system. In the real world it will help. Not sure about mpg - I would imagine worse... why would you assume similar?
My preference? The 3.0 Quattro.
But I would assume space in the rear of the Audi is not great.... because space in the saloon and estate weren't either.
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Not expecting a huge amount of back-seat space, but there are 2 seats that can accommodate children or small people, which is all I need. I don't imagine there is much back seat difference between the Audi, SAAB, or say Volvo C70 convertibles?
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The 2.4 petrol was never a particularly big seller in the UK; though smooth it didn't have much more more power than the lighter, cheaper and more economical 1.8T With the facelift and introduction of the 2.0T the 2.4 was dropped from the range.
My guess is that the front heavy A4 will understeer even more with the 2.4 V6 engine; I'd go for the 3 litre quattro if I had to choose between those two. Was the 2.0T available in NZ - that's the one we went for when I bought an A4 cab 4 years ago. We still have it, fault and rattle free after 50k miles. No leaks either :-)
I've had people in the rear seats on plenty of occasions; fine for short journeys, and longer journeys for smaller people. Ours is an 'S-Line', which means a black interior and black headlining - makes it pretty claustrophobic in the rear with the roof up I have to say!!
Peter
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Parkers' website tells me that the 3.0 has 50BHP more than the 2.4, but weighs 120Kg more, so 0-60 performance is pretty much identical. More torque though (300NM v 230NM) which might make itself felt?
FWIW: 29mpg for the 2.4 against 24mpg for the 3.0... Will only be doing 9000 miles/year anyway, reimbursed at 12p/mile for most journeys.
No 2.0Ts around at all. There is a 2007 1.8T (imported from the UK!) but with its newer age and lower mileage it'd be beyond budget.
I'm leaning towards the 2.4 at this stage based upon these stats, although I suppose they are pretty meaningless in the real world..?!
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Since the performance is similar, I assume they're both auto? The manual 3 liitre is a couple of seconds faster to 60 than the 2.4. If they are both auto I'd stil be leaning heavily towards the 3 litre. It has a 'proper' tiptronic 'box, whereas the 2.4 is 'multitronic', which is basically CVT isn't it?
Peter
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Yep, both auto: the 3.0 has a 6-speed tiptronic, and I'll need to check if the 2.4 is a CVT. The gearshift gaiter is identical, with the tiptronic function though.
Both black leather interiors.
Only odd difference I can spot so far is that 1 has a 3-spoke Audi steering wheel (the 3-litre) whereas the other has an Audi 4-spoke wheel. Presumably this is a giveaway as to one of them being a newer model year, say late-2005 as opposed to early-2005?
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>> Only odd difference I can spot so far is that 1 has a 3-spoke Audi
>> steering wheel (the 3-litre) whereas the other has an Audi 4-spoke wheel. Presumably this is
>> a giveaway as to one of them being a newer model year, say late-2005 as
>> opposed to early-2005?
>>
Mine was a late 2004 - I think you got the 3 spoke steering wheel if you paid the extra £750 for the sport pack. I did this as the bits you got extra were worth far more than 750, but the sports suspension you get is...er....quite firm
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In the UK the three spoke wheel came with 'Sport' and S-Line trim, and the 4 spoke with the standard and SE models. Don't know if thats the case everywhere though
Sport trim also includes sport seats,which are well worth having - slightly bigger bolsters, but more importantly an extendable squab and lumbar support. I'd look for heated seats in a convertible too; not standard in the UK on any model (excpet perhaps S and RS versions?)
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I had a 3.0 Quattro - lovely car, and driven gently you can get 32 MPG from it - I was getting around 28 most of the time. The 3.0 makes a nice noise - used to love going through tunnels in it with the roof down.
Not sure if its an option, but the 2.5 tdi was also a nice drive to - pulled like a train. As already mentioned the 2.4 was a bit pointless, although the 3.0 was dropped for a 3.2 IIRC
I got one as we had 2 kids in car seats at the time and, although not huge in the back, was about the biggest 4 seat cab I could find, plus you could still get 2 stick fold pushchairs in the boot even with the roof down. I only got rid of it because we had child number 3, so it was only being used for me to go to and from work which was a bit of a waste
For me it was a toss up between that and the saab. The Audi feels very different - very sure footed and a lot more solid - no comparison really. You wont regret buying the 3.0
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Thanks for the input so far guys!
No sign of a Sports pack in either: seats are identical in both cars. Both have electric front seats, the 3-litre's seats are heated too, but no mention of heated seats in the 2.4.
18-inch wheels on the 3.0 - gonna be a hard ride?!
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Ours came on 18" wheels and lowered 'S-line' suspension. The ride's really not that bad. Though it has been on 17" winter wheels/tyres (no laughing out there ;-)) for the last few months and the ride is definitely more supple. The handling has got sloppier though, and it's possible to create some quite impressive tyre squeal in cetain multi storey car parks!!
What's impressive IMO is that despite 50k miles, 18" wheels and lowered suspension, almost 4 years of daily traversing half a dozen speed bumps in our office car park and being driven mostly in sympathetic but making progress kind of way there is not a single rattle
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Peter - that doesn't surprise me - they feel so solid and well built
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>> Peter - that doesn't surprise me - they feel so solid and well built
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I know it's a cliche, but it really does feel as solid as when it was new. The only signs of wear inside are a shinier leather steering wheel and a slight patina on the leather seats. Usually when you get a new car and the old one feels, well, old. Not so with the A4 - fantastically well put together car.
The plan was to keep it for another 4 years, then get rid, use the Merc as a second car and replace the A4 with a new convertible. I'm not so sure though that the A4 won't still feel solid in another 4 years!! It might even have fewer ratles at 8 years old than a 4 year old Mercedes... That'll be an interesting decision...
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Peter
I just came across this post researching opinions of A4 cabs. Have you still got yours and if so does it still feel as solid?
I'd be looking at one of the last 3.2 quattro models - probably manual, but they seem rarer.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
MPZ
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We haven't, but we wish we did!! The following will be brief as posted from an iPhone on 3G from Brazil...
It was actually sold a couple of years ago - it just wasn't getting much use... But, almost from the day it went we regretted it...
The good news is that it felt as solid at 6 years old as it did when new, and was mechanically faultless.
We missed its convertible as, and so I bought a 1994 Audi Convertible 2.6E for £500 to replace it :)
It too still feels solid, and has also never let us down!!
Will post more at the weekend!!
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We are in Rio for the week Mark... Just a quick, warm, break somewhere different before Christmas. Location arrived at based on weather (that went well!!), beach and city location with plenty to see/do, and ability of Baxter Healthcare to deliver dialysis stuff at short notice. They, and the local team, I have to say, have been fantastic! We've had a good week so far!!
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Lovely. Whereabouts are you staying?
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We are in the Sofitel on CocoCabana beach...seems to be favourite with the airlines judging by the number of crew here!! And the prevelance of French is helpful, given the lamentable extent of my Portuguese!!
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I know it well.
I presume that you have worked out that you are more or less at the join of Copacabana and Ipanema? Walking up through Ipanema and on into Leblan is safer and contains much nicer restaurants.
Do you need recommendations for places and stuff or are you fine?
I do have good friends in Rio so if you need anything, do ask.
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Thanks - much appreciated! Yes, it's a 10/15 minute walk along to Ipanema, though Andys limited mobility means a taxi (plentiful and cheap) is our usual mode of transport. Our approach wherever we are is basically take a taxi to somewhere that looks interesting (Lonely Panet driven usually...) and then potter about, with plenty of cafe breaks to people watch, and identifying potential dinner locations! Rio hasn't disappointed so far...
Raining today and tomorrow though by the looks of it, so any pointers on things to do without getting too wet would be useful :)
Many thanks
Peter.
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Niterói MAC (Museum of Contempory Art)
CCBB RJ ( Cultural Centre Banco do Brasil)
Jardim Botánico
Or take a cab out to Barra de Tijuca - shopping and restaurants. And a nice beach front. Damned good fruit and veg market on a Saturday morning, too.
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p.s. send me an email (address in profile) and I'll let you have my cell phone number. I speak Portuguese and, as I said, have friends there just in case you or Andy need help suddenly.
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Thanks - CCBB seems like a good starting point. Much appreciated, and email sent :)
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Right, as promised a bit more info on the Audi. It really did feel and look pretty much as new the day it left, bar the roof, which, perhaps because it was never cleaned with any special treatments, did look a bit less black than when new. But it spend its entire life ungaraged. It was a lovely solid, comfortable, swift-ish, economical-ish car.
Ours was a 2.0T 6 speed manual in S-Line trim. Quick enough for the type of car it is, and it averaged just over 31 mpg over 5 years and 50k miles I think. High thirties was easily achievable on decent length journeys. Getting it over 40mpg was only possible if you were in a stupour... Audi recommended it be run on 97/99 octane fuel ,which is more expensive. I generally did, but I have no idea if it really made any difference...
Audi were (are?) a bit stingy on the standard equipment front. We added heated seats (essential), a wind deflector (essential), auto lights/wipers (really should have been standard), auto dimming mirrors (again, should have been standard), cruise control (nice to have) an ipod doc (how quickly technology moves on!!) and bluetooth. It came with full leather - black only on the S-Line. I didn't order heated mirrors - assumed they were standard and they weren't!! I didn't order sat-nav (it was £2k) but its a common retrofit and I had the OEM unit added for £700. The one thing i really regretted not adding was xenon lights; the headlights were poor. And should have known better - I had a B6 A4 Avant in 2004 which had crap headlights too!!
The roof was used very frequently, but we never experienced any faults. You could see signs of wear appearing where it folded above the rear windows; nothing major, but noticeable close up
I kept it serviced at Audi the whole time; after 3 years old it qualified for Audi's fixed price servicing for older cars, which was reasonably priced I thought, all thing considered. Around £129 for an interim and £299 for a major service to start with, though I think that did rise fairly sharply. £159/£359 teh last time it went in I think. But, that did include collection/delivery or courtesy car, free MOTs and and a wash and vacuum.
I don't recall it having anything other than routine servicing, and nothing broke. I'm pretty sure it had at least one set of front pads. But no discs I don't think. It's biggest achilles heel was tyres. 18" (cant remember the profile) which would last for 13 ~ 15k miles on the front. And it wasn't driven *that* hard. But, it is a heavy car, and FWD, so to be expected perhaps. I think its weight was also a contributing factor in me not finding the ride a problem, even with S-Line suspension and 18" wheels. Other S Line Audi's are often criticised for having harsh suspension - I think the weight of the cabriolet damps the harshness!!
Slightly unstructured - apologies - but those are my thoughts. With hindsight it is one of my favorite cars. I ended up adding a convertible back to our drive by spending £500 on a 1994 Audi Convertible (Princess Dianna style!!) It too feels pretty solid still, and also has an almost complete Audi service history. The first thing our cleaner said when she saw it was "oh, your convertible is back. I thought you'd sold it" So, don't spend too much!!
Anything you want to know, just ask :)
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Peter
thanks for the response, and sorry for the tardy response, I need to check here more frequently. It would seem that a late model A4 cab should definitely go to the top of my list. Looking to buy next summer and I'm hoping to run it for up to 10 years.
Thanks again.
MPZ
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No problem. The late 'Final Edition' cars were slightly better equipped, but the additions were most cosmetic IIRC The only worthwhile thing was xenon headlights.
My perfect spec would, I think, be a 2007/8 2.0T Sport, on 17" 5 Spoke 'star' wheels, in a dark blue metallic with cream leather interior. Heated seats, wind deflector, xenon headlights, sat-nav/bluetooth (though whether the bluetooth will work with new 'phones I do not know), autodimming mirrors, electric memory seats and cruise control!! Auto or manual :)
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I've found out that the 2.4 was first registered in April 2005, whereas the 3.0 is six-months newer (Dec. 2005) - I guess that does count in favour of the 3.0.
The 3.0 spent some of its life with the private plate GR8 LDY - so one careful lady owner?!
Neither car seems to have a valid MOT or paid-up road tax since May last year, so it's possible that they have both been parked up in dealer's yards since then...
Guess it's time to make the lengthy drive to go see them both in the metal...
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what happend to Audi A3 you bought?
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- Nothing, but I'm not entirely smitten with it (one or two minor niggles) and I've got a small windfall coming. Basically I got the A3 cheap by NZ standards (great!) but it's a bit older and tired-er than I would like.
Let's see what the cost to change is. And then get SWMBO on board, which I'm dreading most of all...!
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Dilemma solved: one of the 2 was sold by the time I got there!
Got a halfway reasonable deal offered on the other one, going to sleep on it... Tempting.
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any chance of you driving a 3 series convertible for comparative purposes?
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Or a Merc CLK. Both rwd which must be preferable. If it's an Audi I would avoid a CVT box like the plague, personally
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Quattro models cam with proper tiptronic box's
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>> Or a Merc CLK. Both rwd which must be preferable. If it's an Audi I
>> would avoid a CVT box like the plague, personally
Seconded. They can go wrong and be a fortune to replace. They also have a slight pause before they accelerate, not nice if you need to step away smartish. Quattro's will dial out some of the strong understeer. But if you're just cruising it may not matter to you.
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The A4 Quattro was sold, so I'm looking at the 2.4.
3-series BMs are higher-priced, or generally at least 1 year older in my budget range.
Very few Mercs around - and in any case they really do scream "arm and a leg" costs to fix if a problem arises, imho.
Dark horse for comparison might be a Volvo C70...
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Having been involved with repairing all of these,I would consider the last of the Bmw e46 3 series models of around 2005/6.These give very little trouble in all areas but don,t touch the 4 cylinder petrol valvetronic engine which is a total nail.Parts prices are probably cheaper than all the others.Volvo c70 all suffer with creaking front suspension and parts cost more than all the other makes put together.hth
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dear NZ
Although I have no idea of second hand car prices in the Antipodes, nor petrol prices,my 2004 330 Ci convertible still feels tight as a drum. 54k miles, no squeaks or rattles. A wonderful tactile drive. Personally I prefer an older car like this than a newer lower mileage model. A proven engine, not too stressed, and 32mpg with my driving style.
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>> dear NZ
>> Although I have no idea of second hand car prices in the Antipodes, nor petrol
>> prices,my 2004 330 Ci convertible still feels tight as a drum. 54k miles, no squeaks
>> or rattles.
Look after it and it'll still feel good with three times that mileage. The whole drivetrain on these cars is extremely strong.
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Quite so. I look after all my possessions.
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If you go for the 2.4, be prepared to put in LOTS of oil.....
I know 2 people who had them as company cars and both cars used a litre of oil every 2,000 miles or so even when run in.
Good luck.
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Thanks a900ss, hadn't heard about that foible.
FWIW, our dear friend HJ rated the 2.4 over the 3.0 in his review at the time. Despite the helpful posts earlier in this thread I think I've ruled out a 3.0 anyway for its additional weight and mpg for scant additional performance.
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Thread update: deal done. Car had been stuck on the dealer's forecourt for 2 months - the atrocious "summer" weather in NZ in Dec/Jan must have put people off convertibles - so a bit of haggling was done. About half of the money I'm losing on the A3's trade-in price can be explained away by the 4 new tyres it's gonna need in the next few months if I kept it. Man maths is great, eh?!
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Love man maths - helped me make a few changs over the years :-)
Hope you enjoy it as much as I enjoyed mine.
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Well, I did the deal last month but only picked up the car last weekend because I've been away.
Wow, nice car!!! Puts the used A3 I had before to shame. 48k miles, nearly 7 years old, totally rattle & squeak free, feels like it's been made from granite. Feels a bit heavy off the line ('cos it is!) but cruises beautifully. Nudged 34mpg on a longer run today. Feels bigger inside than the A3, even with the black rooflining. I'm well-chuffed!
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i got a 54 plate A4 3LTR cabriolet last week,despite its 115k miles its drives like new,everything feels tight an the V6 engines is smooth as silk,a pleasure to drive
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>> i got a 54 plate A4 3LTR cabriolet last week,despite its 115k miles its drives
>> like new,everything feels tight an the V6 engines is smooth as silk,a pleasure to drive
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Thats what I had - also on a 54 plate, so you never know, it might be my old one :-)
............Not dolphin grey by any chance?
I liked the way it was quiet at low speeds, but I think it had a trick exhaust thingy that made it sound all snorty if you gave it the beans
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no its a matalic blue,with full electric heated blue leather,S Line auto box with the sport mode
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Had the cambelt done on mine a few months ago, plus cam seals. Pricey!
Car still seems to drink a bit of oil. Hard to tell with the rubbish black plastic-tipped dipstick...
Think I need to replace a CV joint soon too.
Body & paintwork in great nick. 63000 miles and 9 years old. It might be a keeper...
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>> no its a matalic blue,with full electric heated blue leather,S Line auto box with the
>> sport mode
>>
>>
Sad as it sounds I remember that being the same spec as the one I test drove before I ordered mine.
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Multitronic gearboxes of this age are a ticking timebomb. It's not if, but when it will fail, and how expensively.
Last edited by: DP on Mon 7 Jul 14 at 09:39
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I had a 2007 3.2l v6 petrol tiptronic from new. Best car I ever had. The gearbox was the fastest and smoothest change that I have ever experienced.
Couldn't afford to run it nowadays at £1.33 a litre. When I had it petrol was 86 pence per litre and I was filling it up nearly every day!
The engine burble when changing down was so enjoyable and the acceleration was superb.
I wouldn't want the bill for fixing the gearbox though!
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>> Multitronic gearboxes of this age are a ticking timebomb. It's not if, but when it
>> will fail, and how expensively.
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Don't recall the demonstrator being multitronic, think it was a tiptronic.
I ordered a manual anyway :-)
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I've been in a few Multitronic Audis. It's basically a CVT, and it works brilliantly with the diesel engines. But they are catastrophically unreliable, particularly the early ones.
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Audi A4 Cabriolet - Which petrol engine is best? - rtj70
