I think mass immigration has been far from a universal benefit, although I've never bought the "they're pinching our jobs" line.
But it seems there might be something in it:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16484918
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No shock really - it's maybe we've deluded ourselves. Several years ago I had dealings with a small scale employer, he could barely fill his skilled posts, his semi skilled come unskilled roles were impossible to fill locally, so he employed Latvians in this role (not for any reason other than one of his suppliers sourced wood there and found a pool of willing workers back home and then diversified into sourcing labour) - the Latvians could be trusted to turn up on time, work hard, and delivered. He did try to source local labour, but he had trouble getting them past substance testing, despite advance warnings (takes up to six weeks for cannabis to test clear)...so it was a no-brainer.
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Funny how the governments 'official' advisers come out with what the government want to hear, while the independent one doesn't.
Funny that.
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The figures here come from Migration Watch, an organisation strongly against the immigration of the last few years.
IMHO eastern europeans' credentials are just what employers are looking for, especially when recruiting for low-status positions. They're keen to work, punctual and uncomplaining - I couldn't imagine a large distribution centre being staffed by a few hundred of the local sink estate's finest 20-somethings.
Last edited by: Dave_TDCi on Tue 10 Jan 12 at 20:54
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A huge Amazon distribution center has recently opened near here. I was speaking with an employee recently who told me there is a high turnover of local people who can't (or won't) hack the pace of the work.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 10 Jan 12 at 20:57
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>> A huge Amazon distribution center has recently opened near here. I was speaking with an
>> employee recently who told me there is a high turnover of local people who can't
>> (or won't) hack the pace of the work.
Amazon is renown all over the world for its terrible employee practices and abuses.
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>> >> there is a high turnover of local people who can't
>> >> (or won't) hack the pace of the work.
>> Amazon is renown all over the world for its terrible employee practices and abuses.
Ergo, the Eastern Europeans can hack the terrible employee practices and abuses which the local softies cannot.
Things must be desperate on the hunger and starvation front for people to put up with such abuses.
In the meantime Amazon continues to flourish without being taken to Court by the Lab or ConLibdem governments, or without the trade unions holding marches or protesting outside Amazon warehouses.
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>> the Eastern Europeans can hack the terrible employee practices and abuses which the local softies cannot
The practices and conditions in the article about Amazon are on a level with several jobs I've done over the years, but the pay rates are better. I'd work there.
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>> The figures here come from Migration Watch, an organisation strongly against the immigration of the
>> last few years.
Actually these figures don't but Migrationwatch produced a similar account earlier in the week.
Danny Shaw's analysis in the sidebar of the BBC article is the key reading IMHO.
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But the government say they are going to do something about it. Except most of the immigrants are european and can't be stopped, even if they wanted to. Unless the UK leaves the EU, of course.
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All immigrants take jobs that would never otherwise exist so ther eis no connection between immigration and unemployment.
Am I on message for the Labour supporters? :-p
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One of my brothers once co-owned a business/factory dealing in precision metal fabrication. This was in an area where local unemployment was high - one reason the factory was there because the WDA provided help setting up the business.
For all the time he worked there he had jobs advertised including apprentice positions with full paid training etc. He always struggled to find people. Even took on people to train as welders etc. with no skills at all.
The locals would have been on benefits and didn't see why they ought to work instead.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Tue 10 Jan 12 at 21:58
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Problem is, we need to export the people who wont work, see now thats why we shouldnt have let the colonies go :-)
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"The locals would have been on benefits and didn't see why they ought to work instead"
The current changes in the Benefits' system is bringing many chickens home to roost. Trouble is the economy is on such a downer there aren't many jobs out there....I've bimbled about sort of half heartedly looking for something I want to do - been able to find some opportunities which I flagged up here, in fact I turned down a full time job offered off the back of some agency work before Christmas, maybe I'm too picky, but I'm not entitled for any state help, not that it bothers me. But I can see how chasing jobs, even poorly paid unthinking work can be soul destroying after a while, I can see how the whole thing can grind even the sturdiest soul down. Guess what I'm saying is that unless you're a very highly motivated person (which I certainly used to be) it's easy to fall into the sort of living hell that people exist in, whether of their own making or not. I also reckon it's easy to be a little smug when you're looking down at people that are worse off, maybe adopting a little humility helps.
Last edited by: R.P. on Tue 10 Jan 12 at 22:09
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>> For all the time he worked there he had jobs advertised including apprentice positions with
>> full paid training etc. He always struggled to find people. >>
>> The locals would have been on benefits and didn't see why they ought to work
>> instead.
>>
This is exactly the scenario with my f-i-l who owns a hotel in the Scottish Highlands, in one of the more remote parts.
When he went there he imagined he'd be employing the locals, being the largest employer in that area...he employs a couple of English who now live there..one Jock from elsewhere...and the rest are Eastern Europeans.
None of the locals are interested. We've often discussed it over a bottle of red and come to the conclusion that State Benefits are to blame, there's no real work ethic.
He'd employ a Brit if he could, that's the way he thinks.
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Intersting point WP. Last time I was on the Hebrides the bar staff included several Eastern Europeans.
But when you look at the figures benefits are nearer subsistence than generous - see Pat & Rob's comments in the 'No Cash' thread. Is the real problem that employers cannot (or will not) pay a wage that covers subsistence plus the extra costs of travel etc that are involved with bien in work?
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>> employers cannot (or will not) pay a wage that covers subsistence plus the extra costs of travel etc that are involved with bien in work? >>
So the locals are unable to survive on "nearer subsistence" wages and will go hungry and starve.
But while that the locals cannot survive on those poverty wages, the Eastern Europeans (who have left their homes and families and friends to come to a foreign nation) can because they are "untermensch", is that so?
The welfare state has engendered a poor work ethic in the locals, money for nothing attitude, and the belief in "entitlement" to their "rights".
That is the problem, pure and simple.
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I hope nobody got paid for stating the blindingly obvious.
The state will have to find the solution, the state has taken over all control of how parents raise their children, re discipline etc, the state has taken over prolonged education for all whether they will ever benefit from it or not.
The state has provided countless millions with free money, free housing, free everything.
The state wanted unlimited immigration, the states pint pot has been overflowing for years but still they topped it up.
The state got what it wanted.
The state is the self appointed expert in everything, the state knows best.
Let the state sort it out.
Thank goodness for Polish, Latvian, Chech and all the other East Europeans that are here working hard, they have better command of our language than our chav idiots who talk street innit, they are clean and presentable, they are reliable and want to work, not deal drugs and doss about.
We'd be up queer street without them.
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>> Thank goodness for Polish, Latvian, Chech and all the other East Europeans that are here
>> working hard, they have better command of our language than our chav idiots who talk
>> street innit, they are clean and presentable, they are reliable and want to work, not
>> deal drugs and doss about.
>>
>> We'd be up queer street without them.
>>
spot on as usual gb
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...We'd be up queer street without them...
Don't agree.
Just as I don't believe 'they' have taken our jobs, nor do I believe there would be lots of jobs going undone if 'they' were not here.
Many of the Polish plumbers have left, I'm told, because economic conditions in Poland are now more favourable for them than here.
Are our streets awash with water from burst pipes going unmended?
Of course not.
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What are those Polish plumbers eating though ?, apparently they're on the brink of starvation in Poland !
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Never any mention of the approx. 5.5 million Brits living and working abroad (declares interest).
Last edited by: lancara on Tue 10 Jan 12 at 23:46
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That is not correct R.P.The one thing about Poland is that they where never short of food.
Son in Law is Polish his father is a retired accountant not rich but well fed.The wages are lower so is the cost of living.
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>Are our streets awash with water from burst pipes going unmended?
No.
But in Basingstoke, you wouldn't get your bins emptied, you wouldn't have a bus service and you sure as hell wouldn't get an Indian/Chinese/Pizza delivered!
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I've glanced at the links and skimmed the posts. I still can't understand what's being said here. There's a lot of talk about boring, alienating, underpaid labour, and a small amount of talk about proper manual skills like plumbing, carpentry and bricklaying. Very little about work better paid and more interesting because of the rarity of the skills or the greater added value provided.
As far as I can see all these jobs are being done by people who live here. It simply doesn't matter whether they were born here or arrived later in the hope of getting work. None of this has a damn thing to do with immigration. The outsourcing of (for example) routine IT work is nothing to do with immigration. It is to do with globalizing capitalism (no friend to any human category).
As for 'chavs' who only want to doss about and deal drugs, and can't speak proper English,
a) There aren't that many really in this caricatured category and
b) It's hardly surprising that there are a few at least, since the state education system has for years failed to teach schoolchildren to read, write, add and subtract, and to know something - anything - about geography or history, while 'popular culture' has encouraged ridiculously outlandish aspirations in the young and ignorant.
We all have our varying views about why all this happens. The point really is that it does happen.
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This won't go down well in some quarters - R.P.
