Motoring Discussion > 17% premium increase for parking sensors... Tax / Insurance / Warranties
Thread Author: brettmick Replies: 26

 17% premium increase for parking sensors... - brettmick
Thought this might be interesting....

This afternoon I received an email from my insurance provider telling me that they were going to charge me £52.77 (about 17% of my total premium paid back in December) because "A check of your policy details against our system records has highlighted a discrepancy in the details you gave us. The information differs to that recorded on another policy with us or another company within the same group."

So I phoned them up and they said that on my application I didn't tell them I had parking sensors fitted as an option and that the cost of adding them was £52.77.

How can a set of parking sensors that I paid £299 to have fitted (nice, professional job all nicely colour coded) add 17% to my premium? They said that in an accident they would have to cover this extra cost, but my main gripe was that I renewed with them therefore the detail was there on the original policy and they had dropped this on the renewal. In the end they dropped the charge and said the computer had tried to back date this modification to all cars/policies previously insured with them hence the price hike....

Odd - but a UK call centre with helpful staff so they will keep me if the renewal price in 11 months is sensible.


 17% premium increase for parking sensors... - Shiny
Because insurance is a criminal protection racket with full criminal Government endorsement. Just tell them that in that case it was a frustrated contract (never actually started) and to return all premiums in full.
 17% premium increase for parking sensors... - CGNorwich
"Just tell them that in that case it was a frustrated contract (never actually started) and to return all premiums in full."

'Fraid not. Failure to disclose a material fact leaves a policy voidable at the Insurer's discretion.
 17% premium increase for parking sensors... - Bromptonaut
>> How can a set of parking sensors that I paid £299 to have fitted (nice,
>> professional job all nicely colour coded) add 17% to my premium? They said that in
>> an accident they would have to cover this extra cost,

Failure of the sensors or misinterpretation of their 'guidance' leads to claims??
 17% premium increase for parking sensors... - ....
If that's the case Bromptonaut, imagine the hikes coming for factory fit satnavs.
 17% premium increase for parking sensors... - Iffy
Seems to me the insurance company is saying the sensors are likely to feature in any accident claim because they are in such a vulnerable position.

They might not be so bothered if the OP fitted an equivalent value radio or sat nav, although that may create an added risk of theft.

 17% premium increase for parking sensors... - Clk Sec
>>'Fraid not. Failure to disclose a material fact leaves a policy voidable at the Insurer's discretion.

Did we ever resolve whether or not taking a speed awareness course in lieu of points and a fine would be considered by insurers to be a material fact?

I'm betting that it would, and I wouldn't risk not telling them.
 17% premium increase for parking sensors... - Zero
Of course you do, you were still convicted of exceeding the speed limit on a public road (SP30) its just that you didnt get points or a ban.
 17% premium increase for parking sensors... - Manatee
Staffordshire County Council doesn't agree that you need to tell your insurer.

goo.gl/T4onf

"Remember, if you are eligible and elect to take the Speed Awareness Course, you do not have to pay the fine, you won't get the penalty points and above all, you don't have to tell your insurance company because the speeding offence is cancelled.

If you decide not to take the course option, under the terms of your insurance policy you are required to notify them of any prosecutions. It is not uncommon for insurance costs to rise at a rate of £50 per penalty point for a period of up to five years."


The failsafe option, in theory, would be to tell them anyway, but given the general incompetence of "customer service centres" there's a good chance they'd record it incorrectly and you'd end up penalised or in an argument.

I'm inclined to keep quiet, unless my licence is endorsed which it won't be as far as I can make out.

I got an SP30 in 2004 or thenabouts, and called my then insurer LV to tell them. They said they weren't interested as long as I had a valid licence, and it made no difference to my premium.
 17% premium increase for parking sensors... - Clk Sec
Discussed here a while back:

www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=62769
 17% premium increase for parking sensors... - zippy
If the insurers ask about driving courses then you will have to tell them.
 17% premium increase for parking sensors... - PeterS
>> Of course you do, you were still convicted of exceeding the speed limit on a
>> public road (SP30) its just that you didnt get points or a ban.
>>

Isn't the offer of these courses made at the point that NIP - Notice of Intended Prosecution is issued? So, presumambly if you accept the course you are admitting that you committed the offence, but the Notice of Intended Prosecution is taken no further - ie no actual prosecution occurs?

So technically I can see why the advice from some Forces is that you don't need to notify yor insurer. However, it does still sound like a material fact that an insurer would like to know, prosecution or not. In fact I believe some insurers now ask if you've attended any of these course in the last x years as well
 17% premium increase for parking sensors... - Iffy
...you were still convicted of exceeding the speed limit on a public road (SP30)...

No, you were not convicted of anything.

That's the whole point of accepting the course, it stops the prosecution before it starts.

As I mentioned elsewhere - and as Peter says above - some insurers now ask if you've taken a course as well as asking if you have any convictions.
Last edited by: Iffy on Sat 7 Jan 12 at 12:16
 Duty to inform Insurer of Material Fact - John H
The current law, and the changes planned are outlined here:
www.justice.gov.uk/lawcommission/areas/consumer-insurance.htm
Insurance Contract Law: Consumer Insurance (Disclosure and Representations)

Latest news on progress of Bill:
services.parliament.uk/bills/2010-11/consumerinsurancedisclosureandrepresentationshl.html
"Report stage – line by line examination of the Bill – took place on 20 December. Amendments discussed covered clauses 2 and 3 of the Bill."

In the meantime, "To mitigate the harshness of the 1906 Act, consumer insurance has been the subject of an array of industry codes, Financial Services Authority (“FSA”) rules and Financial Ombudsman Service (“FOS”) discretion. "

The FOS has stated that:

"an insurer must not:

1. unreasonably reject a claim made by a customer;
2. except where there is evidence of fraud, refuse to meet a claim made by a retail customer on the grounds:
1.of non-disclosure of a fact material to the risk that the retail customer could not reasonably be expected to have disclosed;
2. of misrepresentation of a fact material to the risk, unless the misrepresentation is negligent"

and

"In assessing the customer’s demands and needs, the insurance intermediary must… explain to the customer his duty to disclose all circumstances material to the insurance and the consequences of any failure to make such a disclosure, both before the… insurance contract commences and throughout the duration of the contract; and take account of the information that the customer discloses."

and

"an insurance intermediary should make clear to the customer what the customer needs to disclose."

the Financial Ombudsman Service approach

Taking account of the law and good industry practice, we approach non-disclosure/misrepresentation cases in three stages. We summarise these three stages below, before describing each one in a little more detail.

When the customer sought insurance, did the insurer ask a clear question about the matter which is now under dispute?
Did the answer to that clear question induce the insurer; that is, did it influence the insurer’s decision to enter into the contract at all, or to do so under terms and conditions that it otherwise would not have accepted?
Only if the answers to both (1) and (2) are "yes", do we go on to consider whether the customer’s misrepresentation was an honest mistake, a dishonest attempt to mislead or due to some degree of negligence.

1. clear questions

The insurer must first provide evidence that it asked the customer a clear question when the customer asked to take out or renew a policy. The insurer may ask questions via a traditional proposal form, which records the answers.

In many cases the transaction will have taken place over the telephone. If there is no evidence, such as a call recording and/or a copy of the statement of facts that the insurer has sent the customer, then we will have to decide what is likely to have happened. If the customer gives a credible account of events, we may find it more likely than the insurer’s version.

A similar statement of fact would be required for internet sales; as would some evidence of the questions asked during the website process,as it existed at the time of the application.

In order for non-disclosure to occur, the insurer must show that it asked clear questions.
2. inducement

Legally, the insurer must establish that the non-disclosure or misrepresentation "induced"(or influenced) its decision to enter into the contract. This was established in Pan Atlantic Insurance Co Ltd v Pine Top Insurance Co Ltd (Reported [1994] in Volume 3 of the Weekly Law Reports at page 677).

If the insurer cannot prove inducement then the policy will remain valid, even if the non-disclosure was deliberate. The burden of proving inducement will not be high in clear-cut cases. For example, if a customer fails to disclose that their house has serious cracks, we are likely to believe the insurer would not have offered them full buildings insurance.

However, it is rare for cases to be this clear-cut and we will usually require evidence that inducement took place. This may be in the form of a statement from the underwriters and/or a copy of the underwriting manual.
3. the customer’s state of mind

Not all instances of non-disclosure or misrepresentation breach the duty of "utmost good faith". We have identified four types of non-disclosure (deliberate, reckless, innocent, and inadvertent) to help us decide whether, with regard to all the available evidence, the customer acted in breach.

It is possible to deliberately non-disclose without being fraudulent. While dishonesty is one of the essential criteria for fraud, there must also be deception, designed to obtain something to which you are not entitled. For example, a customer might deliberately withhold information they are embarrassed about. Although, in doing so, they are acting dishonestly and deliberately, they are not acting fraudulently because there is no deceitful intention to obtain an advantage.

Only where there is clear evidence of fraud should the insurer retain the premium. In all other cases of deliberate or reckless non-disclosure, the premium should be returned, not least so as to protect the insurer’s position. Retaining the premium could be interpreted as an intention to affirm the contract and/or waive the right to "avoid". Our experience is that most insurers return the premium in any event.
deliberate

Customers deliberately mislead the insurer if they dishonestly provide information they know to be untrue or incomplete. If the dishonesty is intended to deceive the insurer into giving them an advantage to which they are not entitled, then this is also a fraud and – strictly speaking – the insurance premium does not have to be returned.
reckless

Customers also breach their duty of good faith if they mislead the insurer by recklessly giving answers without caring whether those answers are true or false. An example of recklessness might be where a customer signs a blank proposal form and leaves it to be filled out by someone else. The customer has signed a declaration that "‘the above answers are true to the best of my knowledge and belief", but does not know what those answers will be.
innocent

Customers act in good faith if their non-disclosure is made innocently. This may happen because the question is unclear or ambiguous, or because the relevant information is not something that they should reasonably know. In these cases, the insurer will not be able to "avoid" the contract and (subject to the policy terms and conditions) should pay the claim in full.
inadvertent

A customer may also have acted in good faith if their non-disclosure is made inadvertently. These are the most difficult cases to determine and involve distinguishing between behaviour that is merely careless and that which amounts to recklessness. Both are forms of negligence.

Inadvertence occurs when the customer unintentionally misleads the insurer. This can occur just by failing to read and check the questions and answers thoroughly enough. When this happens there is no breach of the duty of utmost good faith.

For example, a policy application may contain a clear question about motoring convictions and penalty points. The customer discloses a careless-driving conviction but fails to disclose that they have three penalty points for speeding. In that situation, we might believe that the customer genuinely overlooked his conviction. The customer clearly did not intend to mislead the insurer because he disclosed the more serious offence; he simply failed to realise that penalty points were also part of the question. So the insurer should act as it would have done if it had been in possession of the full facts.

Where there has been inadvertent non-disclosure or misrepresentation, we expect insurers to rewrite the insurance. This should be done on the terms they would originally have offered if they had been aware of all the information. In some cases this may result in a proportionate payment; in others it may result in no payment at all. This is because the inadvertently-withheld information would, if disclosed, have led to the firm declining the application altogether.

Everything turns on the individual circumstances. Customers will find it more difficult to prove that they acted inadvertently if they answered several questions badly. To get one or two questions wrong may be regarded as inadvertent; to get several wrong starts to look like recklessness.
 Duty to inform Insurer of Material Fact - Ambo
Your experience does not suprise me, Brettmick. When I told my isurer, Allianz, that my new car would be fitted with sensors they refused to cover me at all! Yet sensors reduce the likelihood of a bump and hence a claim.
 Duty to inform Insurer of Material Fact - Bill Payer
>> Your experience does not suprise me, Brettmick. When I told my isurer, Allianz, that my
>> new car would be fitted with sensors they refused to cover me at all! Yet
>> sensors reduce the likelihood of a bump and hence a claim.
>>
I can only think these issues are something of a misunderstanding. Many cars (all BMW's I think?) are fitted with parking sensors as standard now.
 Duty to inform Insurer of Material Fact - Bromptonaut
>>Yet sensors reduce the likelihood of a bump and hence a claim.

I'm not 100% convinced of that.

Driver relies on the sensors to get in close - MUCH closer than without them. Foot slips off clutch & CRUNCH.
 17% premium increase for parking sensors... - Bill Payer
>> ...you were still convicted of exceeding the speed limit on a public road (SP30)...
>>
>> No, you were not convicted of anything.
>>
>> That's the whole point of accepting the course, it stops the prosecution before it starts.
>>
If you accept the fixed penalty you still don't have a conviction - only a court can convict you.

>> As I mentioned elsewhere - and as Peter says above - some insurers now ask
>> if you've taken a course as well as asking if you have any convictions.
>>
Hmmm...would be interested to know which ones. PistonHeads is pretty hysterical on these matters and it's never come up there.
 17% premium increase for parking sensors... - Iffy
...would be interested to know which ones...

I understand The Admiral Group is one.

 17% premium increase for parking sensors... - Cliff Pope
You fit parking sensors because you are unsure of your ability to park a car without hitting anything.

Unsureness of your ability to park a car without hitting anything is surely a material fact?
 17% premium increase for parking sensors... - -
I would never have thought of informing the insurance company if i had reversing sensors fitted.

An obvious safety item that a reasonable person would assume to lessen the chances of accident.

Nothing to do with being incompetent at parking, try something like a pick up with a hardtop fitted or a sizeable 4x4.

They are not just for sensing the closeness to another fixed object, they give you a secondary warning should a small person or animal sneak venture behind the vehicle as you reverse...it does happen, i wish lorries had them as standard fittings.

Might be overkill on a Micra or Mini though.
 17% premium increase for parking sensors... - bathtub tom
I've just had a pleasant surprise while shopping around for insurance renewal.

£108 comp. Down from £160 last year. Hallo SAGA, farewell Sheila.

I assume it's because we're both now fully retired.
 17% premium increase for parking sensors... - CGNorwich
What on earth are you driving BT?
 17% premium increase for parking sensors... - bathtub tom
That was for the 03 Almera, 1.5 manual, garaged.

It'll be interesting to see what the Kia comes in at later in the year.
 17% premium increase for parking sensors... - Clk Sec
I've had quite a few quotes from Saga and they offered me another this year, but for me they have never been competitive.
 17% premium increase for parking sensors... - bathtub tom
I've never found Saga competitive previously. The premium was reduced by forgoing the opportunity of a meerkat doll and contacting them direct. A further reduction was then available by agreeing to a home & contents quote.
 17% premium increase for parking sensors... - pete4344
A few years ago I moved to Saga because of a competitive quote, but the second year the premium went up about 20% for no reason, so I swapped back.
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