I have just spent 4 long hours at the local A&E at the insistence of my doctor.
I just wanted to say how wonderfully professional, funny and understanding the staff were to me. The 20ish year old doctors had some serious problems getting blood from me and had to use the services of a good old fashioned nurse.
I currently feel like a pin cushion (15 odd needles).
Glad to say it seems to be a false alarm.
I would like to make a complaint though. Not aimed at the staff but at some of their customers who were rude, arrogant and downright dangerous with police having to be involved. The NHS team deserve better. Treat them with the respect they deserve.
Z
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The problem is the "Zero Tolerance" campaign that the NHS run.
If they can tolerate him, these other antisocial burkes seem positively benign.
;-)
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I did some security work in a NHS hospital for a few months.
Had to deal with a few antisocials.Attacking nurses, gangs looking for trouble.
Sorry to say at times I wished I was armed.
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Sounds like the Manchester Royal Infirmary more cops than nurses in that A&E department, its why I always say I want to got to Trafford General for minor things like a broken bone, but if I ever have a heart attack or anything serious I will forgive the muggers and choose the MRI without a doubt.
I am lucky I can pick and choose hospitals really or though none are that close.
Glad you're ok and I really wish I had a GP like yours :).
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Blimey, the number of time I have been into A&E in the last 10 years!
3 times broken thing, 3 times things stitched up. I avoid A&E now, try and wait for the walk in at a nearby cottage hospital.
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4 hours is the usual it seems. By then they either have to admit you, send you home, or send you somewhere else, to avoid messing up against the targets.
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Not had much personal experience, but went there with my wife when she had a mis-hap and then with the pal who had the accident which resulted in an outbreak of "beigiusSkodaism" and when I was bitten on my census round. Always unfailing courtesy and efficiency, the only criticism was in my wife's issue was the lack of hands on physio - she is lucky in being able to access superb and intensive physio through her work.
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Harrogate Home PU? Now its all fitting together :-)
Last edited by: Fullchat on Wed 21 Dec 11 at 21:30
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After having a operation a good 7 years ago now - I fully agree that the service, and the staff of the NHS are truly exceptional - even the food was nice!
And yes the “customers”, can be downright rude and ignorant and the staff should not have to put up with them at all.
My only complaint (and I didn’t and should not) was that I could not get a good night’s sleep. It was too hot, I could not get comfy in the bed and it was too noisy (a ward full of men with nose problems meant for a noisy ward coupled with a heater rattling next door all night)
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The waiting rooms were always full of what are euphemistically called "service users" by other agencies. Not that I'm a snob you understand.
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my recent experience of the NHS has been excellent. went to the docs with severe migrains and he phoned the hospital and got an MRI straight away and had it anylised within 2 hrs. ive had weekly mri's since and never had to wait at all.
they were checking to see if a mass had enlarged and were very supportive
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Last time I went to A and E the triage nurse deemed my condition required immediate attention. I took a seat and was duly called next. The looks on the faces of those who had been sitting there for four hours plus could have killed.
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>>>Last time I went to A and E the triage nurse deemed my condition required immediate attention. I took a seat and was duly called next. The looks on the faces of those who had been sitting there for four hours plus could have killed.
The problem is that many don't understand the basis of triage. See the urgent cases first, everyone else can wait.
There were posters and a TV at my local A&E explaining the concept in really simple terms. I took a book and waited. Not a problem letting people in more need of treatment then me go first.
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My last visit 4 years ago was with a fully ruptured achilles tendon. I did it on a saturday afternoon, had the wife drive me the 120 miles home, and timed my A&E visit for Sunday at 09.15. All the drunks had gone, new shift of happy (hungover?) workers, seen assessed and plastered and then Home (pending a recall for surgery), in less than 90 minutes. The doctor I saw even called the ortho consultant at home to see if he would be coming in on the Sunday with a view to having surgery there and then.
My philosophy is , where possible, to understand the system, and use it to work for you.
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A colleague of mine was killed by N Staffs hospital as part of the 400 patients massacre in the early 2000s. Those in charge were promoted.
As a result I am unimpressed.
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>> A colleague of mine was killed by N Staffs hospital as part of the 400
>> patients massacre in the early 2000s. Those in charge were promoted.
>>
>> As a result I am unimpressed.
>>
Killed one of mine too. Caught some infection. Probably a blessing as a slow death from liver failure awaited due to alcoholism. Killed mum's best friend's husband with some infection. Also killed an aunt from clostridium. Another elderly relative caught mrsa but survived.
A relative was in Stafford hospital. Visiting hours. Family visited. She was stone cold dead. No one had noticed!!! Charts were whisked away so they could amend them and remove any sign of negligence.
One up north killed a friend's mother with incompetence after slowly letting her go down hill with poor care by a GP for two years. Lots of chronic conditions not dealt with. Send her home one Xmas with pneumonia! Back in after Xmas and dead within a few weeks.
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I can remember the episode of Only Fools and Horses where Del decks the mouthy drunken git in reception.
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Further to the above, I note that a privately owned care home was closed this year after maltreatment of patients filmed by the BBC. The staff responsible were rightly prosecuted.
Then I read of elderly patients not fed and neglected in NHS hospitals etc. No-one is prosecuted..
One law etc..
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>> Further to the above, I note that a privately owned care home was closed this
>> year after maltreatment of patients filmed by the BBC. The staff responsible were rightly prosecuted.
>>
>> Then I read of elderly patients not fed and neglected in NHS hospitals etc. No-one
>> is prosecuted..
>>
>>
>>
>> One law etc..
Can see where you're coming from but prosecuting deliberate abuse, particularly with video evidence has a reasonable prospect of conviction. Neglect due to inadvertence where there's no clear pointer to a time, person etc is much more difficult to stick.
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I would have said that under HSE regs, Hospitals owe a duty of care to patients. Neglect equates to abuse.
I am sure a legal expert would be able to charge the Hospital Managers - if they wanted to,,,
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When my grandmother was taken into A&E despite all relevant information in her entire 24 hour stay they didnt bother to give her any of her extensive medication, notably her morphine so when she was brought home, she was beginning withdrawl.
I dont consider that care, thats plain cruel and they make no apologies either, arrogant spings to mind. I did wonder if they have a government target for getting rid of the elderly.
The district nurse said to my father and I that we should avoid her entering Northampton General at all costs as she is at genuine risk if left to the care of the staff there - it must be said though that hospital is known to be dire officially aswell as locally.
Kettering General, while rather run down is staffed by a nice bunch though as is Daventry so im told.
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Imagine this scenario:
Elderly confused lady is found on a bus. She has a medical condition other than the confusion. Taken to A&E, via ambulance, then admitted to a ward.
From the ward she wanders off...in the middle of a savage winter, wearing only a very light dressing gown and nightwear.
Old Bill get called as she's now a vulnerable missing person. NO ONE had searched the building or grounds for her....they were all 'too busy'. NO ONE was assigned to deal with her to prevent her wandering off... 'too busy'...(that is why she'd been on the bus in the first place, having wandered off from where she lived).
When trying to get hospital staff to help search the building and grounds the response from a duty manager was 'it's a friday night, everyone will be going home soon'.
Two hours later, she was found by a police officer in a road a mile away, with the beginnings of hypothermia. That officer asked my permission to bring her back to the hospital in a police car (usually a 'no-no' in case people keel over and the Old Bill get the blame). Permission granted, walk into A&E again...to be told...'sorry we're closed, we're full, on a Code Black'.
Explain it's 'your missing patient', full scale arguement with senior nurse, which ends with me saying' too late she's here now' and a very reluctant willingness to deal.
Behind my back, my staff get told to take her direct to the ward she'd gone missing from i.e. without being seen in A&E again..but they had the sense to clear it with me first, which I refused...just as well as one of my sergeants went up to that ward to see if one of them would sit with the old dear in A&E instead of one of my officers for hours on end...and...THEY'D GIVEN HER BED TO SOMEONE ELSE...despite the fact she had belongings in a cabinet etc.
I could bore everyone to death and give hundereds of examples like this e.g. psychiatric patients who are treated worse than cattle...daily.
I did get a written apolgy from a senior hospital executive re the above example (after i'd done a lengthy report on it).
The individual staff i.e. nurses, doctors etc, are hard working, hard done by people who work in extremely difficult circumstances...and I attach no blame to them whatosever.
The NHS is third world in places....because....there's too many managers who are not medically trained and not enough worker bees who are. The idea that 'managers' rather than 'medically trained staff who manage' was the way forward is an utterly hopeless failure...and has condemned thousands of people to misery, suffering and even death... because no one takes responsibility for anything. In the old days the Charge Nurse (matron) ruled the roost..so from cleaning to feeding to everything, it was all looked over by someone...who does that now? it's all been devolved to managers that aren't there.
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Good report Westpig and very sad that this can happen in this day and age.
But who has the guts to change this scenario and have some common sense brought back in the NHS.
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Ive read several articles suggesting that caring for patients on a basic level has been made to seem lowly ( actually personal care is something you can either do or not, some people just arent capable and its a hugely valuable skill ), with focus on career which elevates one above the manual jobs which are so key - the notion that these rather basic needs are worthwhile things to devote your working life to is part of the problem.
The carers my nan has in privately are a mixture of care home staff, agency carers and one is a retired senior nurse, the last one clearly has seen it all and in her 60's herself and in her own words, comes from the old school of actually seeing the value in the basic needs of a patient/client, but she doesnt have much positive to say about the current crop being turned out.
A friend of mine who gets care organised for her mother by the state tends to get carers more interested in Facebook than actually doing their job, but she said being at the mercy of whats thrown in their direction, they just have to plough on and make up the difference themselves.
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Yes, very good stuff Westpig, I agree all the way.
However I can't resist reminding you who it was that imported that 'internal market' garbage from the US and effectively made health, education and other public services worse and more expensive at a stroke. Deregulated financial services too I seem to remember. At the same time creating the yuppie who is still with us, bad cess to him/her, and giving enormous help and comfort to the jobsworth who has always been around...
She may have been right about the Falklands and the big industrial and print unions, but she certainly wasn't right about everything.
Sorry and all that but...
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Good points A.C couldn't have put it better myself.>:)
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Mrs B is a psychiatric nurse, but due to the NHS being entirely inflexible after the birth of our first child she left and now works through a nursing agency. Doing this she often gets to see different wards and hospitals and they do vary considerably.
Mrs B is fairly young (by the standards of this forum:-)) at 32 and she often comments to me that they should bring back Matron, and return all the cleaning in house. She has also spent quite a while working in prisoner escort - again the problem is often that the agencies at either end are not equipped to deal with such patients and they are often just dumped.
Westpigs post does not surprise me one bit, and I fear is a common situation
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Greater clarity of the managerial hierarchy is necessary in any big organisation - look at all the projects that go poo-shaped such as Edinburgh's trams, Scottish Parliament, MoD acquisitions, etc.
The common thread is if finding the manager responsible for problems is nigh on impossible, then that project is doomed to fail.
Medical care is no different.
I've said it before on this forum and I dare say I'll say it again: there's a good reason I wouldn't ever go back to working in hospital and it is because of the manner they are run - in my work the buck stops with me - if I cock up, I carry the can.
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>> She may have been right about the Falklands and the big industrial and print unions,
>> but she certainly wasn't right about everything.
>>
Deep sigh....harrumph....er...um....
"You're right".
She's still my hero though.
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>> She's still my hero though.
Heh heh... I know. Only teasing.
The Falklands made me stop being a mainstream lefty. I couldn't believe the awful carp that flooded out, irrational ideological stuff resolutely ignorant of actual physical and political reality. It was incredibly depressing.
Don't think I've ever really recovered. Cambodian revolution was nothing by comparison.
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>> Heh heh... I know. Only teasing.
>>
I also have a secret regard for Tony Benn.
Completely disagree with his politics...but....admire his honesty, conviction and willingness to constantly fight for the underdog.
There aren't many politicians I admire.
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Saw him "in conversation" with a journo - very, very good afternoon's entertainment. Don't agree with him on a lot of things but a person that has my respect.
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Totally against his politics, but paid good money to see him do a one-man-show a few years back.
A bit disappointed actually, I was expecting a little more fire.
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Saw Roy Hattersley at the same venue - cracking orator still, again don't agree with much of what he says but a man of principle...so respect.
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Tony Benn is a self deluded Leninist who still seems to believe that if only we had adopted his quite frankly potty ideas all would be well in the world. Why so many people are taken in by his avuncular style beats me.
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Wed 21 Dec 11 at 23:22
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>> Tony Benn is a self deluded Leninist who still seems to believe that if only
>> we had adopted his quite frankly potty ideas all would be well in the world.
>> Why so many people are taken in by his avuncular style beats me.
No-one accepts what he says, but you have to admire that fact he stuck by his principals, and didn't waver, even giving up the title and living a modest lifestyle. Terribly misguided, but fiercely honest. I like him a lot.
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No I don't admire the fact that he stuck by his principals. His principals are mainly clap trap and if he is half as intelligent as people claim him to be he would know that. In fact I suspect he does know that. If he doesn't he is simply a fool.
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Wed 21 Dec 11 at 23:32
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Dunno, but certainly a champagne socialist. His son isn't averse to string pulling !
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>> Dunno, but certainly a champagne socialist. His son isn't averse to string pulling !
Oh how shocking, one is tempted to say snidely. They are both professional politicians after all.
Tony Benn is a professional politician. All the best ones 'believe what they say' up to a point. But the principles serve as a definition on the political spectrum, a Yee-hah! to cut out the biggest possible herd of the sort of voters he might think he wants.
Tony Benn is a professional, but quite personable as they go. However no one is perfect. Most of the professional activity of such people on all levels is manoeuvring in a context where principles, real ones, don't get a look in. Ministers are very clever chaps, quick on their feet in argument or interview. Close up, that's the thing that strikes you most.
Didn't Tony Benn's father or grandfather get made a viscount for crossing the floor of the House? It wasn't an ancient title.
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Tony Benn?
I read his diaries . Fascinating.
His son Hilary was one of the few MPs who did not abuse the expenses system . (15th cheapest expenses in the HOC I believe).
Vegetarian and teetotal like his father.
Don't agree with TB's policies but respect him. Consistent - wrong but consistent. The most dangerous sort of nutter. (See Tolstoy)
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...Don't agree with TB's policies but respect him. Consistent - wrong but consistent...
Agreed.
His speeches at the Durham Miners' Gala were always the most entertaining on the day.
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>> Ministers are very clever chaps, quick on their feet in argument or interview. Close up, that's the thing that strikes you most.
Re-reading that post, it strikes me as a little sour and disingenuous.
To set the record straighter, I did interview Tony Benn in the early eighties when he was still a sort of contender in the left-right struggle then going on in the Labour Party. I had to buttonhole him in public twice or three times and make many phone calls to get the interview. He was indeed personable and I liked him. He gave me a whisky - two, in fact - but drank tea himself. His discourse was hermetic, unbreachable. He made, as was his habit, his own tape of the interview. Just in case so to speak.
He was a neighbour of ours and one would see him sometimes near Notting Hill Gate. He crossed the road in front of us at night some years later and herself and I both noticed he was looking very grim and drawn, not too aware of his surroundings. This was explained when his wife's death was announced a few days after that. She was an American lady and said by some to be much more left-wing in her views than her husband.
As with journalists, quite a lot of pro politicians are very nasty indeed at close quarters. Tony Benn certainly isn't one of those.
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I know I know I know, but send the above again and again and again to all and sundry and publish it. I know it will be just a ripple in a pond, but without ripples there are no waves. In this case the truth can be borne out. It is trying and can be boring having a 'go', but we've got to start somewhere.
Yours in despair of Management (sic) and politically correct Mumbo Jumbo.
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Afrointroductions at the top of the page eh! Crap advertising..NOT impressed.
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And more 'Bird' carp too. Clearly there must be money in it.
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=>And more 'Bird' carp too. Clearly there must be money in it<=
I'm rather partial to a bit of Hornithology.
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>> Afrointroductions at the top of the page eh! Crap advertising..NOT impressed.
>>
not here... Chrome plus Ad blocker.
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>> Afrointroductions at the top of the page eh! Crap advertising..NOT impressed.
Been OK till now apart from the gurning woman from trend micro. Then in last five minutes I've been invited to join in 'chat' with chinese lasses.
If this stuff is coming frm Google then sooner or later they'll be headline news in the Wail.
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...then sooner or later they'll be headline news in the Mail...
Nah, they're too busy having meetings about a piece of tinsel to write any stories.
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In business we all owe a duty of care to our customers and all we come in to contact with whatever that business may be.
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Its not a business though, its a religion and much like other faiths, they dont like to be told they are wrong.
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Maybe as so many of you decry the NHS, we should abolish it and move to a system whereby those who can afford treatment get it and those who cant dont.
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I am surprised at the general negativity expressed. Is there a common geographical factor? Whilst having some access to private consultations and treatment I would rate my NHS experiences well above those bits of the private sector that I have seen. I have a friend who has full private care, and whose wife is a NHS consultant. She will not allow him 'to go private' for anything more serious than a sticking plaster. No surgery or overnight stays at any cost.
Despite the general perception on how good the French system is, about 75% of friends who have had surgery in France have had post operative problems, ranging from the extremely serious to infection issues. Some people seem to rate the ambience, queing and appointment problems above the medical care!
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Certainly its not a national health service geographically as you cant get the same service everywhere. In theory you should be able to walk into any hospital/doctors surgery and get the same standard of care.
In practice you cant so theres certainly room for improvement and id happily pay more tax if the extra money could deliver a more universal system. I suspect of course that the extra money would get lost in the system, but in theory if more funds could go directly to patient care, it would be worthwhile.
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My motorcycling friend who was in the care of the French system has a new view of the NHS, especially when he was handed a 9000 Euro bill when he left the hospital....free at the point of delivery is what we're used to.
Last edited by: R.P. on Fri 23 Dec 11 at 09:49
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"free at the point of delivery is what we're used to."
And probably the biggest problem that the NHS has. Without some sort of payment people simply value what they receive because its "free'. Look at the crowds of regulars down your GPS, or those with minor problems cluttering up A and E, those who don't turn for appointments and those who call ambulances because their dog is sick.
The French system does at least confront you with the cost of treatment. Most people have insurance to meet the bill.
If supermarkets were free at the point of use do you think that people would take only what they want. Of course not. It's the same with a health system
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>> "free at the point of delivery is what we're used to."
>>
>> And probably the biggest problem that the NHS has. Without some sort of payment people
>> simply value what they receive because its "free'. Look at the crowds of regulars down
>> your GPS, or those with minor problems cluttering up A and E, those who don't
>> turn for appointments and those who call ambulances because their dog is sick.
>>
>> The French system does at least confront you with the cost of treatment. Most people
>> have insurance to meet the bill.
>>
>> If supermarkets were free at the point of use do you think that people would
>> take only what they want. Of course not. It's the same with a health system
>>
+1
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Agree CG. I rarely use the NHS - twice this year, Census dog-bite (A&E) and a small foot injury (One GP visit and a clinic visit next month sometime) - I'd have happily paid for the treatment and the one prescription that resulted - Prescriptions are free and non means tested in Wales. I think that's wrong. It would be easily resolved unless you receive a "passporting" benefit you pay !
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>> Prescriptions are free and non means tested in Wales. I think that's wrong. >>
Is it not the case that in England, the administration cost of prescription charges (quite a bit of it goes to the Pharmacist as "handling cost") is nearly as much as the average cost-price of the medicine prescribed?
>> Maybe as so many of you decry the NHS, we should abolish it and move to a system whereby those who can afford treatment get it and those who cant dont. >>
The most basic needs of humans in the UK are: water, food, shelter, energy, and sex. Should any or all of these be given to everyone "free at the point of delivery"? If not then why is healthcare free at the point of delivery, but food and water are not?
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prescription costs:
www.ic.nhs.uk/news-and-events/news/number-of-prescription-items-dispensed-in-england-rises-by-nearly-70-per-cent-in-a-decade-report-shows
"In 2010, the average net ingredient cost per prescription item was £9.53."
www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-12646111
"in England, around 90% of prescription items are already dispensed free of charge".
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Surprisingly 10% of all NHS costs are on diabetes treatment. or so it is claimed..
www.diabetes.co.uk/news/2010/Oct/diabetes-costs-the-nhs-one-million-pounds-an-hour-93645072.html
Diabetes is often a result of obesity.
There is an obvious solution...
Last edited by: madf on Fri 23 Dec 11 at 10:57
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>> Maybe as so many of you decry the NHS, we should abolish it and move
>> to a system whereby those who can afford treatment get it and those who cant
>> dont.
>>
It's not a case of wanting something different....it's a case of wanting it back doing what it used to do.
Some elements of the NHS are first class e.g. Intensive care.
Some elements have become dreadful e.g. care on a general ward....because...there are not enough qualified staff to do the job properly and some elements of the work are done in a disjointed fashion e.g. outsourcing. It means differing staff, many non medically qualified, have no real overview of the general needs of the individual patient e.g. cleaning/feeding etc.
Then there's the vast increase in managers.
Whenever there's a financial purge, what gets hit first?...Management or those in the engine room?
What's really needed if budgets are exceptionally tight, management or medically trained staff some of whom could manage?
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The NHS - Lygonos
