It's been discussed here before. On the back of a remarkable rescue off the Anglesey/Llyn coasts over the weekend, BBC Wales news reported that when the current fleet of Sea Kings are retired in 2016, HMG have today announced, that SAR in the UK will be privatised probably to a North American company.
This is the remarkable rescue.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-15929756
Most of the media reports were headlined that Prince William co-piloted one of the aircraft involved, the death of 5 Russian crewmen was a side issue it seems.
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Devils advocate time here.
Why is privatising the service necessarily bad? Is the service provided by the (privately run) coastguard helicopters on the south coast worse in some way. ISTR they already use more modern machines, better suited to SAR work, and, afaik, have a good record.
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>> Devils advocate time here.
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>> Why is privatising the service necessarily bad?
Insufficient data to answer that, save to say that for-profit organisations are, well, for profit...and are conflicted when the service they provide is expensive.
The RAF presumably still has to have helicopter pilots who might as well get their experience doing something useful?
I am horribly suspicious of the costings behind these decisions, especially whether the original costs actually stop when the services are "outsourced". Talk to anybody who has worked for the BBC on production.
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+1.
Creative accounting can produce whatever result you want.
What next? Privatising the Army?
The Tories are just as obsessed with privatisation as the Labourites were with nationalisation in the past.
The key question is where do you draw the line. I have no problem with BT being private for example, but truly essential services where safety or public health are involved should be run (and, more importantly, controlled) by the government.
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The origin of search and rescue was getting our boys out of the drink or the jungle alive. The Germans had such a capacity in 1940 using seaplanes and flying boats. It took us a bit longer.
After the war it seemed both good use of assets and an opportunity to gain experience if the military also did civilian rescue. I'm not sure that rationale has changed. Presumably the military will still need an SAR capacity in conflict zones or will the civvies run that as well?
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In fairness this was a step the Labour Government had already taken - the Tories put it on hold after the election.
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What next? Privatising the Army?
The Gurkhas are simply mercenaries and they seem OK
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>> The Gurkhas are simply mercenaries and they seem OK
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I'd challenge you to say that out loud in a barrack-room full of Gurkhas (or in fact any servicemen) and escape with your crown jewels intact. >:(
As to the whys and wherefores of the OP; it is indeed a good use of resources and excellent on-the-job training.
Last edited by: Harleyman on Mon 28 Nov 11 at 23:32
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Well what are they then. Are you telling me that that they have any real commitment to the UK other than wanting a decent paid job.
They do an excellent job and we should employ more of them but they are still mercenaries
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The British army has employed mercenaries ever since, well, ever since it was actually a mercenary raised army itself.
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>> mercenaries >>
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercenary
" the term mercenary usually carries negative connotations. There is a blur in the distinction between a mercenary and a foreign volunteer, when the primary motive of a soldier in a foreign army is uncertain. For instance, the French Foreign Legion and the Gurkhas of the British and Indian armies are not mercenaries under the laws of war, "
We are all* motivated by money, aren't we?
*Except volunteers (and Doctors and Nurses, of course, who do their jobs on low "living wages" pay simply because they like caring for people.)
Last edited by: John H on Wed 30 Nov 11 at 09:38
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Foreign Legion and the Gurkhas of the British and Indian armies are not mercenaries under the laws of war, "
Legally no because they swear an oath of allegiance to the employing state. Merely a technicality to enable France and the UK to continue with their existing practices.
Nothing wrong with it but lets not believe that the Gurkhas fight for us for any reason other than the money.
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A probable reason for the privatisation is that the MOD?Government has no money to purchase replacement helicopters. SFAIK the Sea Kings are up to 40 years old. Flt Lt Wales is a helicopter captain, I think, not a co-pilot.
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The Sea Kings used for SAR in Valley were new builds in the mid nineties if memory serves me right.
"In 1992, six further aircraft were ordered to replace the last remaining Westland Wessex helicopters in the Search and Rescue role, entering service in 1996"
From Wiki. Another nagging memory tells me they were zero houred airframes....might be wring though.
Last edited by: R.P. on Wed 30 Nov 11 at 16:52
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Deferring to your local knowledge Rob, I did say "some" of them are old- obviously they all aren't! The design is pretty ancient but there have been equipment and electronic upgrades over the years.
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The fact remains that if we have a privatised SAR service then anybody could come along and buy it - like the French did with our water supplies in my area.
I don't feel comfortable that a hostile foreign power could own SAR helicopters in the UK.
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Another question is what will become of the RAF Mountain Rescue Service - largely unknown outside the military and civilian climbing worlds - they also serve and provide back up to the local volunteer teams, they are also volunteers one and all - but they are recognised internationally as being at the top of their game.
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Speaking from outside the loop, as it were, I don't quite understand this.
Bristow Helicopters was running the SAR operation based on Portland, once the job of the RN, when I left ten years ago.
I now see, thanks to my friend Google, the service is still privatised, run by 'CHC Helicopters', and with modern Sikorskys.
So where's the problem?
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None I suppose.
But a rescue today
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-16235480
Mention is made of the limitations of flying in the conditions that prevailed - I know from experience that the pilots of those aircraft would have been flying at and beyond operational limits to facilitate a recovery - wonder if a limited company would have the same commitment ? Oh and most of the pilots on C flight are not nobility.
Last edited by: R.P. on Sun 18 Dec 11 at 23:33
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Privatisation of SAR Helicopters. - Alastairw
