Do we use the word too widely and by doing so imply that too many events are unavoidable.
Example:
A tree falls on your car while driving round a corner on a country road - accident.
A tree falls down and you drive into it while driving round a corner on a coutry road - collision (Not an accident as the driver was not able to stop in the distance he could see to be safe as required by the Highway Code)
Should we not distinguish between human error and genuine acts of God.
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Policing have now a more "politically correct" term now as in Road Traffic Collision....probably a good term really, I queried it with a Police Acc...sorry Collision Investigator once and he went all smug and learned over it...explaining to me that there was no such thing as an accident and that someone or something is always to blame..
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No. Accident = not deliberate. Both are accidents
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>> No. Accident = not deliberate. Both are accidents
That's what I thought. However, the first definition that crops up in google is:
"An unfortunate incident that happens unexpectedly and unintentionally, typically resulting in damage or injury."
While unintentional, you might say that a lot of road 'accidents' are expected given the conditions/driving.
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If God had an address, the old bill would be charging him and sending him NIP's. Surprised they haven't tried to blame the clergy.
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>> >> No. Accident = not deliberate. Both are accidents
>>
>> That's what I thought. However, the first definition that crops up in google is:
However... I should have pointed out that the second definition is:
"A crash involving road or other vehicles, typically one that causes serious damage or injury."
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>> Should we not distinguish between human error and genuine acts of God.
No.
Collision is used in road accidents so the police can justify finding someone to blame and punish them.
Do you drive round every sharp bend at 10 mph just in case there is a fallen tree there?
The M5 accident is a case in point. They are going after the people who had the firework display. Blame is the name of the game. At any cost.
And given our road accident deaths continue to fall, and are lower than just about anywhere else in the world, its really not justified.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 8 Nov 11 at 08:43
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>> Do you drive round every sharp bend at 10 mph just in case there is
>> a fallen tree there?
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Yes.
Especially in wooded areas if it has been windy.
Last edited by: Cliff Pope on Tue 8 Nov 11 at 09:00
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Heres 5 quid says you dont.
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Latin origin, from the very accidere. Learned and long explanation here
legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/accident
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>> Heres 5 quid says you dont.
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You are obviously not very familiar with country life!
Our lane is narrow with occasional passing places. There are some blind right angles and hair-pin bends, and anything might happen. Last week coming home I suddenly met an escaped bull in the road, and had to edge it backwards to the passing place. It might have been a whole herd, or sheep, or a tractor without lights.
10 mph is reckless in many places.
I take your point that in practice one often tends to drive on the assumption that the road will be clear, but it's still a good maxim only to drive at a speed consistent with the amount of clear road you can see.
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>> >> Heres 5 quid says you dont.
>> >>
>>
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>> You are obviously not very familiar with country life!
Yes I am.
>> I take your point that in practice one often tends to drive on the assumption
>> that the road will be clear, but it's still a good maxim only to drive
>> at a speed consistent with the amount of clear road you can see.
Of course its an ideal maxim, but usually impractical
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I was working for the old bill when the directive on not using the word 'accident' was issued. It seemed badly thought through to me and it still does.
The problem is, the police don't have enough philosophers. We need a proper definition of the word 'accident' and then, more importantly, we need an exact meaning for the word 'blame'.
I don't think identifying the cause of an accident (or collision, or incident or whatever) is automatically the same as apportioning blame, or necessarily a reason that blame should be apportioned at all, but of course I think, therefore I am...
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Collision = two (or more) moving objects collide with one another
Accident = a general mishap (you dropped your phone in the loo = accident).
In motoring terms, most collisions are usually accidents as well where as all accidents are not collisions (you skidded to pond = accident but not a collision).
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collision
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>> (you dropped your phone in the loo = accident).
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Although to the plod with their "there's no such thing as an accident" hats on, I suspect that would be criminal damage and conspiracy to commit insurance fraud....
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Ah yes cogito ergo sum. Nice to see Cartesian philosophy in the forum Mike . Look forward to Nietzsche's critique on winter tyres. ;-)
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>> Look forward to Nietzsche's critique on winter tyres. ;-)
Didn't believe in them - "All truly great thoughts are conceived by walking."
www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/f/friedrich_nietzsche.html
(Some interesting ones on women in there...)
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I was done by a radar trap at Descartes some years ago...
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What is an accident???
Section 170 of the Road Traffic Act defines it as:
Owing to the presence of a mechanically propelled vehicle on a road, an accident occurs by which -
(a) personal injury is caused to a person other than the driver of that mechanically propelled vehicle, or
(b) damage is caused -
(i) to a vehicle other than that mechanically propelled vehicle or a trailer drawn by that mechanically propelled vehicle, or
(ii) to an animal other than an animal in or on that mechanically propelled vehicle or a trailer drawn by that mechanically propelled vehicle, or
(iii) to any other property constructed on, fixed to, growing in or otherwise forming part of the land on which the road in question is situated or land adjacent to such land
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Wasn't really looking for a legal definition, more to get people thinking about whether the process of calling them "Accidents" means that we assume that they are all un-avoidable when most are avoidable.
From some of the posts, and I am not going to point, the attitude really dose exist and the thinking is part of the problem.
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The practice of calling them "crime scenes" suggests that "deliberates" would be a better word than accidents. Presumably therefore the culprits are to be called "criminals" ?
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Seems to me, legally, that the system does not care a jot about the driver according to that definition. So as long as you roll your car, killing yourself but not touching or hurting anyone or touching anything else, legally nothing happened.
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Legally Z its a 'non reportable' accident, thats all. Doesn't preclude other offences. But I suppose if you're dead that's not an issue.
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What is an accident - R.P.
