What do fellow 4-players (oh, er, missus - well can't say back-roomers, can I?) think of the bikers campaign to stop parking charges being brought in by Westminster Council (rest of country to surely follow)?
My thinking is that if cars have to pay, why shouldn't bikes? It's not like they take up no road space or are emmission free (like a pedal bike). I can understand their not wanting to pay, but I don't think they have a bike-stand to stand on, do they?
Last edited by: Boxsterboy on Mon 12 Apr 10 at 09:38
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There is no reason not to pay. A large motorbike will take up a half or a third of a car parking space, so there is no reason why they cant pay a half or a third of the parking costs,
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If it's still going to be the £1 a day I last heard it's a bargain. If bikers resist this with protests they will do their overall cause no good at all.
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Ah ha it's the old - if we pay why shouldn't everyone - ploy. How do you think car drivers have ended up paying high charges everywhere, and not just from 9-6 as it used to be but 24/7. Answer- because you just sat back and accepted it. So now you are paying for that lack of action.
It's a very well used ploy to justify penalising one group by showing that another group already does/pays for that service.
So let's just not charge cars and bikes, but extend it to bicycles, after all they are 'parked' all over the place and while we are at it let's introduce road tax and mots and insurance and, and, etc.
The more you allow it to happen the more it will, never give Authority the idea that these things will be easily accepted.
Rant mode now off!
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>> Rant mode now off!
good - now shut up and pay up. If you dont us car drivers will take your space.
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Unlike a car where you can (with relative safety) display your ticket inside the car behind your locked doors and windows; on a motorbike it would be more vunerable to thieves, other motorbike riders, high winds, rain, and other elements - ie, it would be more likely to go missing or get damaged and thus costing the appeal process more money than the ticket was worth.
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a ticket bearing the VRN will do it
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>> a ticket bearing the VRN will do it
Could the relevant council or authority justify the cost of upgrading / replacing the ticket machines though?
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Many parts of City of Westminster now only have pay-by-phone parking. No ticket involved. That would be fine for bikes too.
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>> A large motorbike will take up a half
>> or a third of a car parking space
Well, possibly, if you chose to commute into central London on one of the larger Harleys. But the bikes I see parked around the Temple end of EC4 where I work are, in order of frequency:
Scooters of various kinds
500cc twins of all the usual Japanese makes
Bandits
BMW GSs
Trailies
Occasional sportsbikes.
To put that in context, there's a bike space right outside my office, which is the same size as a typical P&D space for a car. Most days it has 10 or 11 bikes in it.
The "where do I put the P&D ticket" issue is not adequately dealt with. My bike is a 600cc naked with a small wind deflector above the headlamp. Believe me, there is nowhere on there to put a ticket where it will be legible to wardens but also un-nickable and weatherproof. The only way around it is some sort of ticketless pay-by-phone system (RingGo is an example that springs to mind).
Let's remember though that the sole idea here is revenue generation. They've seen that hundreds of bikes and scooters come into their area every day and park for free, they've thought about how much cash that could net them and have concluded "I gotta get me some of that".
And watch out cyclists, it'll be you lot next. They'll find a way. Never underestimate the ingenuity of an urban local authority for finding ways to pick people's pockets.
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No they don't. A further charge for noise pollution would also be justified.
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Our fine City, oop 'ere in 't noorth doesn't charge for any 2 wheelers and provides metal security tubes so that you can lock them up safely. Pushbikes and motorbikes together.
Situated on wide sections of pavement, they cause no obstruction to anyone.
Our wardens also do not ticket bikes parked on the road unless a serious obstruction is caused or a loading bay is blocked.
Enlighted Northern thinking.......good for them !
Ted
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Do you really want yet another tax. Vehicle users, and I include all motorised transport, are taxed to the hilt. Lets see if we can name them all.
I will attempt to list them from buying new.
VAT on new vehicle sale.
The new "showroom tax"
Annual car tax ,note not called road fund license any more.
Insurance premium tax
Fuel tax
VAT on fuel tax
Parking charges and fines
Speed camera fines
Congestion charge
VAT on spare parts.
VAT on service charge.
Toll charges, Dartford crossing etc.
Please feel free to add any I cannot think of.
What do we get in return ?
Roads so bad that you now spend most of your time trying to avoid bomb craters instead of looking ahead.
But then your suspension wears out so more VAT on repairs and more company tax on the profits of garages repairing your vehicle.
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Yes, we all know that motorists are over-taxed in relation to what we get in return. My point is, how can motorbikers expect to not pay for parking when cars do pay for parking?
It's like them saying they shouldn't pay RFL or Insurance Premium Tax or any of the other taxes you list.
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Why should anyone pay for parking on the road, you have already paid.
It's called car tax or road fund license and you pay it annually to keep your car on the road.
Parking in a multi story park, fair enough. Which reminds me of the time me and wifey drove into Monaco for a looksee. Needing somewhere to park we went into the first parking place we could find.
Horror of horrors it led us into the underground car park under the Casino, too late to go anywhere we just bit the bullet and parked.
3 hours or so later, really dreading what the cost was going to be, we paid not much over £2.00.
I believe that the land cost in Monaco is somewhere near the most expensive in the world. How much to park in London ?
I don't know because I have never parked there, but in our town, whose high street shops are mailnly pound shops and charity shops, the parking is way above that.
It's no wonder the high street is dying.
But were British, so we just grumble, accept it and pay up.
But as bikers, at least we can get to the front of the queue, while you in what I suppose is a Porsche, sit it out going nowhere quick stuck in traffic. Such a waste of all that money.
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I don't think motorcyclists should have to pay parking charges, to encourage use of motorcycles. A good subsidy on fuel would be an excellent idea, too. However, machines which are noisy should have their exhaust pipes filled with fast-setting concrete, and Harley Davidsons and derivatives made after 1965 should be impounded and put through the shredder.
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....and I'll tell thee summat else !
My bike's RFL is £10 more per year than my friend's wife's Sirion !
How fair is that ?
Ted
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you need to be compensated for the distress of driving a sirion.
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Deviating slightly from the topic, when parking on the road why do some motorcyclists park at an angle to the kerb rather than parallel to it?
Last edited by: L'escargot on Sun 18 Apr 10 at 08:56
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To stop the bike rolling away, or falling over..
With a 4 stroke multi leaving it in gear will hold it from rolling due to compression, but most singles, twins and all 2 strokes will roll away very easily.
some bikes sidestands are either spring loaded, or (too) easily lift when the machines weight is lifted, not good if the wind is blowing fairly hard.....
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Mine has a fly-off handbrake for that very reason........a rarity now on any vehicle !
Ted
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I have only scanned this thread so apologies if I am repeating a previous comment.
The point is that free parking for motorcycles encourages their use hence reducing congestion and emissions.
On the last point, OK a 1000cc superbike produces more C02 than a 2ltr TD though not when it is parked and the TD is still crawling through traffic.
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Motorbike Parking Charges - Zero
