Members of Caernafon council have resolved to boycott the opening of a local bypass because the invitation was sent to them in English.
link to Caernafon local paper.
tinyurl.com/3bs4ujo
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It's Porthmadog council (a town 20 miles away) and I don't blame them as it's predominantly Welsh speaking town - it's like an English town receiving an invitation in French
And it seems their English was badly spelt as well
Last edited by: R.P. on Sun 16 Oct 11 at 09:22
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Oh and the subject line is misleading - it's the lack of a written bi-lingual written invitation they're moaning about, nothing to do with not speaking.
Last edited by: R.P. on Sun 16 Oct 11 at 09:36
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I am sure that you understand that the subject heading was ever so slightly tongue in cheek.
However.
It does sound like a slightly sulky attitude.
Was there anyone on the council who does not read and write English?
Is English a language that can legally be used in Wales?
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I'm sure they can, but it was an invitation and they didn't have to accept. It's a principled stance that that monoglots don't always appreciate.
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Why did the pompous twits not just ring up and say "do us a favour and send us the invitation again in both languages", then they would have had the moral high ground.
The boycott response, by being disproportionate, just makes them look like foolish. It's the Welsh government they are falling out with too - they could have kept it in the family.
If they were representing me I'd be telling them to do the job they were elected for and stop polishing their egos.
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rip the road up again, we english are paying for it, I doubt the taxes raise in Porthmadog are worth a bean, plus all their income is from English tourists,
We should boycott the place.
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 16 Oct 11 at 10:23
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>> If they were representing me I'd be telling them to do the job they were
>> elected for and stop polishing their egos.
I suspect a big part of their electoral platform was around the language. So they probably are doing what they were elected for.
And the fact that the invitations came from Cardiff rather than London suggests that the Assembly's civil servants are no more aware of the language issue than some of my colleagues in London. Didn't somebody whose desk that paperwork crossed just stop and think for a moment about where the letters were going.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sun 16 Oct 11 at 10:26
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>
>> And the fact that the invitations came from Cardiff rather than London suggests that the
>> Assembly's civil servants are no more aware of the language issue than some of my
>> colleagues in London.
This is more likely the crux of the matter. No love lost between the Gogs (as the North Welsh are called by the South) and the Welsh Assembly, whom they perceive as being just as distant and irrelevant as Westminster.
If the Welsh were ever granted independence, you can rest assured that they wouldn't be united for long, the only thing that ever linked the north and south was a common dislike for the English anyway! ;-)
On the subject of roads; in defence of the Welsh government, they do invest well in roads which is one reason why the road surfaces down here are far better than in England.
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because we English invest in their roads at the expense of ours.
If it wasnt for English tax pounds the welsh would be bankrupt.
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The English are such generous colonial benefactors ! :-)
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I dont mind independence for wales, or scotland, but they seem to want the "cake and eat it" type.
Build a Berlin type wall, see how they survive then.
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 16 Oct 11 at 10:41
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Zero you're confusing language and nationalism - two separate issues, the average Welsh speaking Joe Sebon has no interest in the politics, they just speak their own language and a dozen variations of it.
Historically people from either side of the Offa's Dyke have become threatened by their lack of understanding, it's not just between the Welsh and English and is certainly not unique. The Act of Union 1535/1542 tried to crush the language by making it illegal to speak it, the fact that the language survived at all is a miracle.
Why people can't recognise that indigenous languages can happily co-exist without resort to some alarming xenophobia is beyond me, and that the minority language needs to be supported in a wave of American that is enveloping the world - but what would I know ?
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Language and Nationalism go hand in hand, as much in Wales as the rest of the world, always has done always will.
Dual ( or even triple ) is expensive, impractical, divisive, and a barrier to social and political mobility and industrial success.
You may wish to wax lyrical about it in a whimsical benefactor type behaviour, but as a non welshman, yeah what do you know about it.
What you get is a country like Belgium.,
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>> Language and Nationalism go hand in hand, as much in Wales as the rest of
>> the world, always has done always will.
If the language is an issue becuse it's suppressed or ignored then Nationalism will feed on it. If the language is used and encouraged by those in power it's just part of life. The problem in Wales and in Scotland with Gaelic is a long history of attempts to ignore or supress the language.
I've not read much on Wales but remember a welsh speaking judge speak at a conference of the language of hearth and home - reciting the same history as Rob writes of above.
Finlay MacDonald's accounts of his thirties childhood on Harris mention repeatedly the tawse being wielded for the crime of speaking Gaelic in the classroom.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sun 16 Oct 11 at 11:42
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>> What you get is a country like Belgium.,
>>
Or Switzerland
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>> Zero you're confusing language and nationalism - two separate issues, the average Welsh speaking Joe
>> Sebon has no interest in the politics, they just speak their own language and a
>> dozen variations of it.
>>
You're quite right. Colloquial spoken Welsh is a different animal to the formal prose of the written language, and most Welsh speakers down the west, where I live, not only flit seamlessly between Welsh and English but will quite happily tell you that they can only understand "northern" Welsh (supposedly the most pure form) with difficulty. It's not so much the accent but the construction of sentences and grammar; more like an Englishman trying to understand an Indian speaking English than say a Geordie trying to understand a Cockney.
>> Why people can't recognise that indigenous languages can happily co-exist without resort to some alarming
>> xenophobia is beyond me, and that the minority language needs to be supported in a
>> wave of American that is enveloping the world - but what would I know ?
>>
Again, I'd agree with that. About 70% of our office staff and drivers are "first language" Welsh and converse as I mentioned above; if by chance I happen to be included in their conversation they will either switch to English or, if someone happens to say something that concerns me, translate it for my benefit.
Welsh is a wee bit different inasmuch as there are very few "new" words; the Welsh for anything less than 200 years old tends to be a "Taff-i-cised" version of the English, with different spellings to allow for the vagaries of the Welsh alphabet; for example "tacsi" for "taxi" as there is no "x" in Welsh. this is in many ways the reason why tourists get the mistaken impression that Welshmen who were speaking in English start speaking their own language as soon as any "outsiders" are within earshot.
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The Welsh assembly is all about nationalism, and so is this demand for the invite to be in Wesh. Its not as tho they cant read the damn thing.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 17 Oct 11 at 01:19
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Taxi's a French word :-P - (giant smiley - but I know what you're saying) !
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>> Taxi's a French word :-P - (giant smiley - but I know what you're saying)
>> !
So is cab!
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>> Welsh is a wee bit different inasmuch as there are very few "new" words; the
>> Welsh for anything less than 200 years old tends to be a "Taff-i-cised" version of
>> the English, with different spellings to allow for the vagaries of the Welsh alphabet; for
>> example "tacsi" for "taxi" as there is no "x" in Welsh. this is in many
>> ways the reason why tourists get the mistaken impression that Welshmen who were speaking in
>> English start speaking their own language as soon as any "outsiders" are within earshot.
>>
Interesting that there's no J either, and the commonest name is Jones.....
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>> On the subject of roads; in defence of the Welsh government, they do invest well
>> in roads which is one reason why the road surfaces down here are far better
>> than in England.
I travel the road from Chester to Wrexham (A486?) several times a year. The sudden silence on crossing into Wales - the surface changes from from brushed concrete to asphalt - is most welcome!!
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I wonder if the invitation said RSVP, so no one attended ?
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I won't attend if you speak to me in English! - R.P.
