While most of us agree that electronic handbrakes are perhaps a solution looking for a problem, and they represent something complex and expensive to go wrong when the lever and cable was without doubt simple and dependable, I would like to ask if anyone has had *personal* experience of a failure of an electonic handbrake, what the fault was, what problems did the fault cause on the road, and how much did the fault cost to fix?
I'm sure these devices aren't massively popular on here, but, please only post if you have actually experienced a failure - we've gone through the arguments of whether they're a good or bad idea too many times already.
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Not a car under my control, but a hire car that had been parked overnight, by the hire company's rep.
All of a sudden, mid morning, it rolled out of its parking bay, only coming to a rest when it nudged a post.
If it had been in the next bay, it would have gone straight through the showroom window.
The rep was told that she couldn't have applied the brake.
If so, why did it stay in the same position for around 15 hours?
Last edited by: swiss tony on Sat 8 Oct 11 at 19:30
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New unregd....this happened to colleagues too but this is my experience.
Arrive at compound, not a thing any of us could do to release the brake, tried all the usual things you would including disconnecting battery etc, car stuck on transporter.
RTFM, there is a piece of kit in the tool pack that looks suspiciously like an IUD, insert this item into a grometted hole in the passenger footwell, engage the mechanism, wind till the thing goes bang, handbrake now released but broken, workshop for repair.
Several times when vehicles have been at steep angles on transporter, the instant you go to start the vehicle the brake released, presumably the force against the handbrake has been sufficient to cause release...fortunately i sensed it and prevented damage, others were not so lucky.
Rare enough events true, but i do not want one and it will have to be a gift or company car to get me to accept one, and then under protest.
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"wind till the thing goes bang"
Very odd but reminds me that a jammed (cone?) clutch on the Lister engine in my narrowboat, such as could happen if it overheated by churning too much mud, was freed like this. There was a long dummy bolt near the top of the engine which was unscewed, inserted into another hole and tightened with a spanner. The result sounded more like an explosion than a bang, however.
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Renault at a guess! Breakdown guy I was speaking to the other day mentioned having to do that and how if the battery goes flat you can't get the brake off.
Insignia I borrowed had one. It was great for hill starts and such like. I left it parked on a steep slope and it released fine. Did leave it in gear though just in case... no better at holding the car than the drum brakes on the vitesse though.
The car rental company also mentioned about how several behaved differently and that some went off on their own and on again but others required you to put them on or off and it caused them problems when they hopped into one car from another.
I think you have to keep your foot either fully on or completely off the clutch pedal to start one without it wanting to take off the brake immediately you touch the accelerator. Doing it the other way leads to them rolling. The rental people did tell me but I've forgotten. Or you have to always have a foot on the brake to start. There was a set procedure with the insignia to stop it doing that. If each manufacturer does things differently then it is going to lead to confusion.
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>> Renault at a guess! Breakdown guy I was speaking to the other day mentioned having
>> to do that and how if the battery goes flat you can't get the brake
>> off.
>>
Our Grand Scenic had an emergency mechanical release located under the boot floor.
I was at a friend's house when his first generation C-Max was found buried in the hedge on the opposite side of the road. The battery had gone flat and the parking brake disengaged. The narrow slope of his driveway was enough to send the car gently rolling across the street. Miraculously, it missed the parked cars either side and was undamaged.
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>> If each manufacturer does things differently then it is going to lead to
>> confusion.
>>
Especially for hire cars when the handbook (if it's there at all) is in Serbo-Croat or similar.
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>> Arrive at compound, not a thing any of us could do to release the brake,
>> tried all the usual things you would including disconnecting battery etc, car stuck on transporter.
>>
>> RTFM, there is a piece of kit in the tool pack that looks suspiciously like
>> an IUD, insert this item into a grometted hole in the passenger footwell, engage the
>> mechanism, wind till the thing goes bang, handbrake now released but broken, workshop for repair.
>>
>>
Did the "usual things" include just sticking it in gear and driving off ? The Citroën electronic handbrake when in auto mode (OBC setting) will not release on the button. If it had an EGS gearbox then you need to engage a gear and a quick prod of the throttle releases the brake. Only when in manual mode will the handbrake release on the button.
Guess which setting appears to be the default for the handbrake !
Last edited by: gmac on Sun 9 Oct 11 at 17:18
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I borrowed my fathers Renault Espace to go to France with some friends one Christmas, complete with boot full of pressies...
On picking the car up the handbrake kept re engaging whilst I was driving. Took it in and was diagnosed with a faulty return spring on the handle. Basically, after pulling the handbrake on, the lever was supposed to return to the "in" position. It wasnt doing this properly. They replaced the spring and it was ok. I think it was done FOC as it was under an extended warranty...
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On something as basic as a handbrake you shouldn't have to RTFM - it should be simple and basic and as common to all vehicles as possible.
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Like BMW (I was going to write motorbike but I think it applies to their cars too) indicators ? :-)
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You're absolutely right. Don't start me off on their motorbikes - my 2010 RT had the "new" sensible, Japanese style indicators, the 2011 GS on the other hand has the old paddle type "ergonomic" ones - senseless.
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No doubt the Flatley brother a.k.a. gb and Humph will be along to tell us about the standard Mercedes handbrake soon :-)
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MB handbrake sucks but NC won't let us deviate from topic. Even warned us in the OP. I'm not gonna be the one to upset him again...
:-)
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Well in that case, returning to the OP, haven't experienced a failure but think they are a fantastic addition to the motor car.
I played about with the one on our car, much safer than the antiquated system linked only to the rear wheels when used as an emergency brake.
ABS linked and working on all four wheels when provoked on gravel has to be a major contribution to road safety to quote Sir Robert Mark.
Last edited by: gmac on Sun 9 Oct 11 at 18:06
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>> MB handbrake sucks but NC won't let us deviate from topic. Even warned us in
>> the OP. I'm not gonna be the one to upset him again...
>>
>> :-)
>>
I have been called worse than the swear filter will allow on here, so NC has no chance, especially has he does not have a magic wand to banish me (us). :-)
I agree that inventing novel car controls for marketing purposes is counter productive, and often dangerous.
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>> On something as basic as a handbrake you shouldn't have to RTFM - it should
>> be simple and basic and as common to all vehicles as possible.
>>
Wot he sed, all that time ago
Because when the car you are driving is an unfamiliar rental, you may not have an FM to R - bit of a pain when unfamiliarity with the electronic handbrake/ auto stop/start whatever causes you to stall in lane 2 of the M6 and the dashboard says 'refer to manual' - that will be back in the hire company office, then :-)
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When you had the Passat, you did check the small storage area to the top of the glovebox where the manual is usually stored. There is an orange pull down to open it. Then again maybe you wouldn't know where to look if you didn't RTFM :-)
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>> Did the "usual things" include just sticking it in gear and driving off ? The
>> Citroën electronic handbrake when in auto mode (OBC setting) will not release on the button.
>> If it had an EGS gearbox then you need to engage a gear and a
>> quick prod of the throttle releases the brake. Only when in manual mode will the
>> handbrake release on the button.
>>
>> Guess which setting appears to be the default for the handbrake !
>>
I did the job for twenty years Gmac, there's very little i or the fellows at PDI centres (big multi make one where this episode occured, not a million miles from RP) don't know about shifting cars that don't want to go.
I'd thought it was prettty obvious the default setting of brute force to overcome non compliance would have featured quite a bit.
Unfortunately, the maker in question must have figured the system was likely to fail as they provided a dubious looking tool for the very purpose of breaking the mechanism when it does fail, i notice too the tool was to release the brake not apply it, i wonder if pre production tests showed failures.
Don't recall finding a pair of cable crops in most cars tool kits for cutting the handbrake cables when the old as the hills if it ain't broke don't fix it standard manual handbrake fails.
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Thanks all - most interesting!
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Has there been, though, a convincing account of an actual failure in normal service? I don't remember noticing one.
But I have noticed a climate of technophobic suspicion with which I cannot help sympathizing. You know where you are with properly maintained levers, pawls, ratchets, cranks, cables, rods, cams, shoes and drums, my old mother always used to say.
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Oh good god, someone now thinks we should go back to brake shoes, why stop there, back to the days of solid tyres I say, Nay bring back wheelwrights and metal tyres....
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... and the wedge for when it stops on hills... 'Ahoy Mr Mate! Throw out them newfangled drag chains!'
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... but in all seriousness Zero, doesn't your car's handbrake work with manky little drums and shoes as so many do even in these days of 4 wheel discs? Mine's does.
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I had an Audi 100 with a parking brake that acted on the disc. It trundled off one day after I parked on a slope and forgot to leave it in gear. "They do that, sir".
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>> ... but in all seriousness Zero, doesn't your car's handbrake work with manky little drums
>> and shoes as so many do even in these days of 4 wheel discs? Mine's
>> does.
>>
So does mine. The handbrake operates shoes inside the rear disc "top hat".
Last edited by: Old Navy on Mon 10 Oct 11 at 20:53
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>> ... but in all seriousness Zero, doesn't your car's handbrake work with manky little drums
>> and shoes as so many do even in these days of 4 wheel discs? Mine's
>> does.
I have no idea, I will check
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The electronic handbrake got stuck on in my Citroen in a traffic jam about a year ago. Not wanting to obstruct the traffic any more than it already was, I did what I thought was a sensible thing, and mashed the accelerator into the floor. The car wouldn't budge.
I then remembered reading something in the instruction book about an emergency release procedure that involved removing half the centre console.
My wife then suggest switching the car off and turning it on again, which I did, just to prove her wrong. The handbrake then worked perfectly, and has done ever since.
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All I know is that I've been driving cars with proper mechanical handbrakes since 1966 and in not far off a million miles I've never known one to fail.
The only one that ever needed adjustment between services was on a Mercedes B-class - probably because Mercedes had almost forgotten how to make a normal handbrake.
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What was wrong with the fly-off? Not that I want to do handbrake turns, but it's just such an elegant design. Perfect for hill starts, and none of that irksome clicking.
Sorry NC.
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Have a look at the brake dust on the alloys on the back of every face lift S Type Jag still running around. Even when fully serviced and the TIS fix, the epb rarely come off fully or quickly enough, when they should.
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Sorry to resurrect this... but came back to my car at the Trafford Centre this afternoon. Blocked in by a BMW 3 series behind my car (just touching)..... cut a long story short it had rolled out of it's space and into mine. No damage done but it proves that maybe old style handbrakes can have problems too. Probably high winds helped move the car - it's pretty flat in the car park.
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surely the driver forgot to engage it as not all cars engage when engine switched off
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>> Sorry to resurrect this... but came back to my car at the Trafford Centre this afternoon. Blocked in by a BMW 3 series behind my car (just touching)..... cut a long story short it had rolled out of it's space and into mine. No damage done but it proves that maybe old style handbrakes can have problems too. Probably high winds helped move the car - it's pretty flat in the car park.
Aw come on... it was a BMW, we all know drivers of those, don't use indicators or parking brakes.....
;-)
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...or leave them in gear.
:)
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I can't, simply can't, leave a manual car parked without leaving it in gear. Call it OCD if you will but I just wouldn't settle.
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It's second nature to me to leave parked cars in gear. It's something that I was told to do when learning to drive, but it has occasionally been a problem in the past with pool cars when other users haven't depressed the clutch before turning the ignition key.
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Your prudence versus their stupidity. Pretty basic stuff when starting an engine to check whether the car's in neutral.
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>> Your prudence versus their stupidity
But my bumpers :(
I always leave my own car parked in gear as long as I'm certain I will be the next person to move it. If I have to leave it blocking someone in at work I leave the keys in the office and leave the car in neutral.
I always leave lorries and (manual) customers' cars in neutral for the same reason, you can't predict the starting routine of the next person to get behind the wheel.
Last edited by: Dave_TDCi on Sun 29 Apr 12 at 16:21
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>> I always leave my own car parked in gear as long as I'm certain I will be the next person to move it.
I always leave lorries and (manual) customers' cars in neutral for the same reason, you can't predict the starting routine of the next person to get behind the wheel.
I'm exactly the same.
Amazing how many people just lean into a car, insert the key and start the engine.
Something I find very hard to do, even when I KNOW the cars in neutral or an auto....
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>> Amazing how many people just lean into a car, insert the key and start the engine.
Difficult to do on some cars if you have to dip the clutch to start them :-)
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>> >> Amazing how many people just lean into a car, insert the key and start
>> the engine.
>>
>> Difficult to do on some cars if you have to dip the clutch to start them :-)
As has been said before, they design cars for the brain dead these days......
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Riding a horse, skiing with cable bindings, riding a bike without a helmet, riding a motorcycle, driving a car without ABS or without a seatbelt or crumple zones...All of those would end in at least tears if you lashed it up. Sort of encouraged you not to really. By and large all you really needed was a good imagination.
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>> All of those would end in at least tears if you lashed it up. Sort of encouraged you
>> not to really. By and large all you really needed was a good imagination.
>>
I have done, and still do, most of the things on your list.
I know the risks, I try and reduce them.
The problem today, IMHO, is the risks are being masked by electronic systems, H&S rules, and lack of common sense.
Riding a bike without a helmet is safe - unless you have an accident, same as a horse, or motorcycle.
Cars without ABS can, and do crash.
Seatbelts hold you in the seat, which is good... crumple zones reduce the forces imposed on the body, but neither can prevent injury or death - they just help reduce the risks.
Except, they (and ABS etc, ) can instil a false sense of security, you can see it all the time on motorways, rain rarely slows some people down...
Knowing, and understanding the risk, is something that some people don't 'get' any more - they think the car will save them in any situation.
It wont.
Last edited by: swiss tony on Sun 29 Apr 12 at 17:59
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Can't help myself. Routine when starting a manual, sit in seat, double check handbrake is on, right foot on footbrake, left depressing clutch, gears in neutral, start. On an auto, right foot on footbrake, gears in P, start. Brain won't let me do it any other way. Too old to change now.
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>>Can't help myself. Routine when starting...
Me too.
Right foot on the footbrake. Loads of folk still give it welly as soon as it fires up.
RTFM - leave the gas alone and let the clever elrcticky bits sort it out.
The hand bag hook and all that goes with it is last century :-)
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Last month my friend's Passat's electronic handbrake failed. Had to pay £500 to get it fixed by VW dealer. Looked at few indies but they advised to get it done via dealer.
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>> I can't, simply can't, leave a manual car parked without leaving it in gear. Call
>> it OCD if you will but I just wouldn't settle.
>>
Me to, if fact I walked out the back door this AM to see Mrs B had left car in neutral, so I found myself getting the keys to pop it into first. (even in all this rain)
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Both the vintage, and historic cars sit in the garage with the handbrake off, and not in gear. The floor is however flat.
Outside, anything except the vintage is left in gear along with the handbrake set. Anything is always started in neutral and with the clutch depressed to put the least load possible on the starter. The reason the vintage is not parked in gear is the dog gear selection, put a load on it, and you'll not be able move the gear lever until you've removed the load - so starting becomes difficult.
Electronic handbrakes in my book are answers looking for a question. The simple cable is well proven, reliable and easily changed.
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18th November 2016 used a Ford Mondeo 16 plate hire car with 8204 on the clock to take my wife and her 80 year old parents to a hotel. Once there parked the car facing uphill on a sharp incline in the car park. Particular about setting the electronic hand brake as only 5th time of using it.
Pushed down on the foot brake lifted the parking switch felt the foot brake give and the hand brake on light came on the dashboard, switched off the engine. My wife and I got out and assisted her parents out of the rear seats. Her mother has two replacement knees and recently had a hip operation so she has to move about on the seat in order to get her legs in the right position to be helped out. All this took about 3/4 minutes, as we walked away form the car I locked it, lights flashing mirrors folding etc.
Returned some 15 minutes later car gone. I followed the tyre tracks onto a steeply sloped grassed area for some 150 yards and saw that the car had J turned and rolled forward into some bushes causing minor damage to front offside.
Why did it not roll back as soon as we got out etc. After that when using the hand brake I put it into gear. I now have to prove to the hire company that I did in fact apply it?
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An unpleasant experience, I'm sure but good luck trying to prove you're not responsible unless you can prove mechanical failure or design fault.
I always park my car in gear on any incline - even a flat road. Force of habit but I feel more comfortable knowing its not going to roll.
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>> I always park my car in gear on any incline - even a flat road.
I do, too. One of the many tips passed on by my driving instructor in the 60s. Same for the wife I guess, as she does the same.
I hope you resolve this satisfactorily and welcome, Boreham.
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>> parked the car facing uphill on a sharp incline in the car park.
>> Returned some 15 minutes later car gone
>> After that when using the hand brake I put it into gear.
Which is best practice anyway, and also advised by the highway code.
www.highwaycode.info/rule/252
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If you drive an auto, you can usually only remove the keys in Park So transmission is locked anyway..
Ideal for old fogies - like me..
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>> If you drive an auto, you can usually only remove the keys in Park So transmission is locked anyway.
>>
Provided IT IS a proper torque converter box !!
A few years ago I hired a new Auris " Auto". I parked it, took the key out and it started to roll.
Not impressed. RTFM to find out what to do with the box.
Not impressed as I hired an auto not some auto manual.
Obviously dangerous if the hirer is lazy ( like me). I was lucky.
90 mins wasted on holiday returning to the airport to swop it for a Chevy badged far east lump.
It was almost impossible to get it up the steep road to our flat.
The guy at Avis said they had got 500 Auris and it looked tike a big mistake.
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>> >> If you drive an auto, you can usually only remove the keys in Park So transmission is
>> >> locked anyway.
>> Provided IT IS a proper torque converter box !!
But you can turn the ignition off without it being in park. My DSG Audi won't allow the key to be removed without the car being in Park. But nothing stops you turning the ignition off when it's in any of the other positions.
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Our DSG equipped A3 has comfort access/keyless go, so turning the ignition off without it being park is easy...but it'll flash up a big warning on the OBC display advising you to put it in park. Nothing stopping you getting out without of course, and I haven't tried locking it in that state. I imagine it won't let you, but don't know for sure! I don't think it'll put itelsf into park, unlike the Merc which would put itself in park as soon as the drivers door was opened IIRC
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>>unlike the Merc which would put itself in park as soon as the drivers door was opened IIRC
Yes they do that. Irritates me a bit, only because there's a very tight place I have to park sometimes where I need to open the driver's door and lean out to reverse in accurately and the blankety blank thing puts itself into park. The old one didn't do that, but it sensibly, had its gear lever in the proper place instead of being a stupid column change piece of americanised nonsense.
Not that it bothers me you understand...
;-)
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>> because there's a very tight place I have to park sometimes where I need to open the driver's door and lean out to reverse in accurately
Too tight to navigate via your mirrors?
;)
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>>Too tight to navigate via your mirrors?
Perhaps his SWMBO's been driving it.
:>)
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Tighter than a tight thing, so tight that no one but a driving God ( such as wot I am ) could begin to attempt, frankly even contemplate, such a precision manoeuvre. Most wouldn't understand, a chosen few perhaps, but most would see it as a form of witchcraft in truth...
;-)
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BMW's excellent 8 speed auto goes to park as soon as you turn the (keyless) ignition off. Good old manual handbrake on a 2015 car was a real bonus.
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>> Which is best practice anyway, and also advised by the highway code.
But not always endorsed. Instructor who taught my kids was equivocal; risk of lurching forwards if you 'forgot' it was in gear and tried to start it.
When contemplating change of car a year ago I had test drive in C3 Picasso from local Cit dealer. As is my reflex, at conclusion of demonstration, I engaged handbrake and popped lever into first. Youthful salesman (4 yrs my then undergrad son's junior) knocked it back into neutral and made some comment about no need for that in modern cars
One of several reasons my current drive is a Skoda Roomster.
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>> But not always endorsed. Instructor who taught my kids was equivocal; risk of lurching forwards
>> if you 'forgot' it was in gear and tried to start it.
>>
The same with ours.
It's quite easily done, especially as a learner, hence the need to get into an early automatic routine. But once you are in one it's more difficult to suddenly change your habits when "experienced" and become an in-gear instead of a neutral person.
Plus of course you have to either do an extra clutch movement before starting, or start with the clutch pedal depressed which is not very good for it if you then hold it down while messing around setting heater, radio, mirror, or waiting for traffic.
On the whole I only leave a car in gear if on a slope, or if there is something I really mustn't run into like a wall or a precipice when I use the gear for the opposite direction. But then all my cars have proper handbrakes that don't slip or release.
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When I revert to driving my daughters manual Yaris I get some adverse comments about me leaving it in gear when it lurches when she starts it.
I was always told that dipping the clutch prior to starting imposed less strain overall as the gears were " detached2 from the process so less drag especially on a cold morn.
She does not always appreciate dad's words .;-)
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>> But not always endorsed. Instructor who taught my kids was equivocal; risk of lurching forwards if you 'forgot' it was in gear and tried to start it.
My driving instructor advised me to press the clutch pedal before starting. As mentioned elsewhere it takes some of the strain off the starter motor by not having to spin the gears in the gearbox. That and also not lurching forward should you or someone else leave it in gear.
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 25 Nov 16 at 02:00
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Our CR-V will not start unless the clutch is depressed, but thankfully has a normal handbrake. Having had Saabs for years, which get locked in reverse, it's a reflex habit anyway.
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The reason it didn't roll away when you left the car was that the drums were still warm. As they cooled down and contracted it would have allowed the brakes to slip. It's lucky no one was injured. You would definitely be seen as negligent for not leaving the car in gear on a slope.
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>> The reason it didn't roll away when you left the car was that the drums were still warm.
Would a 2016 Mondeo have drum brakes on the rear. Gees, how primitive.
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Warm drums would cool and set the brake harder.
It's hot discs that contract and leave insufficient pad pressure to hold the car, on parking brakes designed that way. I had an Audi 100 that trundled off, almost certainly for that reason, in c. 1991. The handbrake was on when I left in, and it was on when I went back to it.
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You are correct . I meant discs.
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> Would a 2016 Mondeo have drum brakes on the rear. Gees, how primitive.
>>
I think fiestas still have drums on the rear.
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>> > Would a 2016 Mondeo have drum brakes on the rear. Gees, how primitive.
>> >>
>>
>> I think fiestas still have drums on the rear.
As does my son's new Note. And I think had our Roomie been a manual it would have had drums on the back. No reason why they shouldn't be more than adequate.
Front discs are clearly better than similar diameter drums, much better heat dissipation and they work forwards and backwards. Not so important on the rear, where drums make the parking brake simpler/more effective. Rear discs are arguably more about marketing (probably).
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>> I think fiestas still have drums on the rear.
Smaller car though, so understandable.
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Boreham - welcome to the forum.
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I've always left manual cars in gear - think it comes from all my early cars having knackered handbrakes.
In the Mercedes you cant remove the key unless its in park - the Lexus is keyless, but if you just hit the power button it puts it into park anyway. If you try to get out with the keys but the ignition still on it starts making a loud beeping both inside and outside to remind you
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On our C4 Picasso, the brake is automatically applied when you turn the engine off, and if the door is open with the handbrake off it gets very upset and beeps at your very loudly and insistently. I would ask hire co to RTFM and tell you that it is auto applied, and you can't have left it off - although you say you pressed the button which might have overridden it, but like I say this would probably have resulted in much annoyance from the car!!
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Here're the instructions for operating the electronic handbrake on a Ford Mondeo 2015 taken from Ford's online manual
Always set the parking brake and leave your vehicle with the transmission in park (P).
If your vehicle has a manual transmission, shift into first or reverse gear. If your vehicle has an automatic transmission, shift into park (P).
Note: When you apply the electric parking brake in certain conditions, for example, on a steep hill, the electric parking brake may reapply the brakes within three to ten minutes.
Note: You may notice various noises when you apply and release the electric parking brake. This is normal and no cause for concern.
Parking On a Hill (Vehicles With a Manual Transmission)
If you park your vehicle facing uphill, move the transmission to first gear (1) and turn the steering wheel away from the curb. If you park your vehicle facing downhill, move the transmission to reverse (R) and turn the steering wheel toward the curb.
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Does it really say "curb"? How very depressing.
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Depressing might be going a *bit* far - I imagine that's not the only example of American spelling in a Ford manual!
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I *always* leave my car in gear if I am not in it. If I stop to go through a farm gate and do not have a passenger to operate it, then I turn the engine off and leave the car in gear. Am I paranoid? Possibly. Can I be certain that my car isn't going to disappear from me? Yes.
Of course, a car if left for a long period (on a flat surface or otherwise chocked) should always be left in gear and with the handbrake off. Discs and pads are inclined to become wedded to each other.
And should a car always be started with the clutch depressed? Yes. If you're then going to faff with the radio, put it into neutral at that point. It's no extra effort. It has to be taken out of gear and put into neutral at some point. Either at the point when you stop the car, or when you start it. It was probably left in first and needs to be reversed anyway.
Last edited by: Mapmaker on Fri 25 Nov 16 at 09:53
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>> It's no
>> extra effort. It has to be taken out of gear and put into neutral at
>> some point. Either at the point when you stop the car, or when you start
>> it.
>>
But unless you drive straight away it's an unnecessary compression of the clutch springs and use of the release mechanism and pressure on the engine thrust bearing.
These things add up. Carefully and minimally used a clutch lasts for ever. Many people seem to wear them out in less than 50,000 miles.
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Touch wood, but I've never had to have a clutch replaced on any of our cars...
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Me neither and I always start a car with the clutch down.
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Or me, and I always leave any car, be it manual or auto when parked, in gear, and I always start manuals with the clutch depressed. Never ever had to replace or repair a clutch.
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I have always depressed the clutch when starting, I had SAABs for 8 years and my current Golf will not start unless the clutch is depressed Never replaced a clutch but usually put that down to type of journey, comparatively little urban driving.
We have replaced a few clutches over the years on SWMBO's cars which do a lot of urban driving especially shortish journeys (< 5 miles)
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We've never had to replace a clutch on any of my wife's cars either despite short journey use. Mirrors on the other hand...
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>> We've never had to replace a clutch on any of my wife's cars either despite
>> short journey use. Mirrors on the other hand...
>>
But then your other half probably doesn't hold the car at junctions on the clutch
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No, she's good at that bit...
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My BMW won't start *unless* the clutch is down :)
And it's got an old fashioned handbrake with a lever and everything!
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>> And it's got an old fashioned handbrake with a lever and everything!
>>
I remember them, quaint weren't they?
:-)
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>> Touch wood, but I've never had to have a clutch replaced on any of our
>> cars...
>>
You didn't own a Maxi, then...
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I had a company Rover 800##with 27k miles prior to me with another driver.
Clutch central plate failed in our garage one morning after I had driven under 3k miles,,Np drive at all.
Never had a failure before or since. Nor has son (older), son (younger) or wife..
## like all Rover 800s, the quality was carp..
Last edited by: madf on Fri 25 Nov 16 at 20:05
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>> I had a company Rover 800##with 27k miles prior to me with another driver.
>> Clutch central plate failed in our garage one morning after I had driven under 3k
>> miles,,Np drive at all.
>>
>> Never had a failure before or since. Nor has son (older), son (younger) or wife..
>>
>> ## like all Rover 800s, the quality was carp..
>>
Mates dad had an 820 - he drove it hard and my mate was also allowed to drive it when he was 18 so you can imagine it led a hard life. 80K in 2 years with no issues
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>> Touch wood, but I've never had to have a clutch replaced on any of
>> our
>> cars...
>> You didn't own a Maxi, then...
Must be the easiest clutch change I've ever done.
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>>But unless you drive straight away it's an unnecessary compression of the clutch springs and
>>use of the release mechanism and pressure on the engine thrust bearing.
No. You can take it out of gear before you start it if that's what worries you!
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There are two types of EPB, some are a conventional handrake with cables operated by a geared motor instead of a stick and ratchet and others with geared motors ~150:1 mounted on the calipers to drive the pistons in. the latter is better and have built in temperature sensors. If applied when very hot, the brakes will operate again to apply additional force when cool.
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Drum brakes on the rear make for a better handbrake because, as mentioned already, as the drum cools it will apply the brakes harder. The reverse is true of discs. In most cases the fitting of discs to the rear is just fashion - they look 'better'.
I've had to replace the rear calipers on a few cars cars over the years, due to the mechanical bodge needed to make it also act as a parking brake. Volvo used to have a sensible solution of having discs on the rear but also a small drum to act as the handbrake. I am not familiar with modern Volvos so don't know whether this arrangement is still fitted. I suspect not, as it would have been a more expensive solution but from an engineering perspective, it was ideal.
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>> Volvo used to have a sensible solution of having discs on the rear but also
>> a small drum to act as the handbrake.
Vauxhall did the same thing with the Cavalier Mk3 and Vectra-B models.
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Cliff wrote>>it's an unnecessary compression of the clutch springs and use of the release
>>mechanism and pressure on the engine thrust bearing.
>>These things add up.
Just out of interest, on Friday evening I counted the number of times I depressed the clutch over a 4.8 mile drive that took me 40 minutes. The answer was 165 times, so that's every 14.5 seconds. The additional depression of the clutch to start the car is .6% extra wear. So if your clutch release bearing does 500,000 miles, mine will only do 497,000 miles.
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165 times in 4.8 miles?
Ever thought about getting an automatic? ;-)
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>> Just out of interest, on Friday evening I counted the number of times I depressed
>> the clutch. The answer was 165 times
Lucky it wasn't sheep, or you'd have fallen asleep at the wheel.
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I admit I once counted how many times I pressed brake during my 25 mile commute (one way) at that time. It was 65 times. The car was an auto so no clutch pressing stats :-)
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Electronic Handbrake - failure experience - swiss tony
