I have some how lost the top up oil I bought when the car was serviced, it now needs topping up as it is approaching half way between the max and minimum marks.
The manual says I need 5w 40 and it must meet ACEA C3 specifications, however I know the stuff they put in was Shell Helix, but I can't find any of the shell stuff which meets the C3 specifications, only ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4 .
What does B3/C3 mean?
I spoke to FIAT directly who tell me as longs as I use 5w 40 fully synth it doesn't matter what oil I use. People manual says different and the Panda forum has offered mixed opinions.
Apart from warranty implications, if I do use the wrong spec, but it is still 5/40 is there likely to be any damage caused given it is a simple and basic engine?
I spoke to Opie oils, who were very confused of why the manual states C3 for petrols, when this is usually used for diesels. So is there anybody here which understands oils properly which can help me?
|
|
you are making it complicated, fiat told you what to use, just do what they say. It really is as simple as that.
|
But people are saying the guy I spoke to got it wrong.
This seems to be the correct oil for my car,
www.shop4parts.co.uk/?name=store&op=Details&ProdID=3398&sku=14706
But I neeed to find out if Shell Helix make 5-40 which meets the C3 specifications.
In reality though it probably doesn't matter does it?
|
Opinions on which oil to use are like ****holes; everyone's got one and they're all different.
As Z said (and for once I agree with him) do as the dealer tells you.
|
>> Opinions on which oil to use are like ****holes; everyone's got one and they're all
>> different.
>>
Having just come back to this after only a couple of hours.... I rest my case!
And Bathtub Tom is right; if it's between the levels it's good enough.
|
Your book specifies ACEA C3 oil so that one oil can be used in all FIATs. Makes it easier for the the servicing outfits. ACEA C3 oil is a low ash oil normally used in diesels with a DPF. My diesel car does not have a DPF but C3 oil is specified for it, B4 oil will be OK in your car, (and mine).
For your peace of mind do what the book says and use C3.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Wed 14 Sep 11 at 16:52
|
Yeah just read it here
www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html
What the guy from Opie is correct then, and perhaps the guy from FIAT too in saying that I can use the B4 and it won't affect my warranty.
So it won't do any harm to mix C3 with B4 will it? If I buy the correct FIAT Selenia stuff for topping up, my research has confirmed that Shell don't make a 5w 40 which complies to C3, so I cannot have C3 in my engine at present.
|
I thought C# engine oils were for diesel engines with DPFs, A# for petrols and B# for diesels.
I imagine this is what was put in your car previously:
www.opieoils.co.uk/c-915-acea-a3b4.aspx#Filter=[ManufacturerID=169*EntityIDs=@(54)@*ava=0]
|
Indeed it is, it seems to be only 5w 40 fully synth Shell make. So the oil the dealer put it is fine for my engine, BUT FIAT says in the manual not to use it.
So what is now less risky? To buy the correct FIAT stuff and mix it with the Shell stuff, or to buy the Shell stuff I already have which the manual says not to use?
|
I'd be more concerned that you have used half a litre of oil in only few miles.
The C5 has never been topped up in 20K (1 service at 12K)
The Sharan goes between 10K services and maybe drops 25% from the max line.
How many miles have you done since the service?
|
|
Mixing oils is not a problem just use good quality.
|
|
Why does your car need a top up, Ratts? Have you been thrashing it to within an inch of seizure, and scaring your passengers witless.
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 14 Sep 11 at 18:25
|
As you do little mileage, why not take it into Fiat for a interim oil and filter change - should not be that expensive, won't do your car any harm - and you will know that they have put the correct specification in.
Edit - unless its just been services < 6 months
Last edited by: Redviper on Wed 14 Sep 11 at 17:05
|
Don't buy the shell stuff rattle, buy a quality oil that doesn't charge you for the brand name. Millers, carlube etc.
Shell fire out magazines every quarter to their card members. One of the question pages had a guy with a motorbike looking to buy shell oil. The answer was very indirect and amounted to - we sell in bulk or in petrol station top up sizes. I read that as we want our name known so punters will pay over the odds for a top up at their local shell petrol station.
|
>> As you do little mileage, why not take it into Fiat for a interim oil
>> and filter change ...
>> - and you will know that they have put the correct specification in.
That's the last thing you will know. I always assume they have a big tank of something they think is oil and use it for everything. I even had a Honda dealer tell me they use semi synth in everything. When I said the Honda spec for my diesel was fully synthetic Castrol Edge 5W-30, they added "oh yes, except for those". What else could they say?
Don't lose sleep over it.
|
Its only used 800ml in 5000 miles, and probably needs 300ml now to bring it up to the max, it was trashed a bit when we used to to visit my grandpa, my dad was doing 85mph down a lot of the M62 and it gets very steep near the Pennines so the revs would have been high.
The vast majority of the consumption was in the first 3000 miles and has settled down a lot now, although it is still 'consuming' some.
|
It doesn't need topping up.
The level should be between max and min. Yours is.
|
1.1 ltrs over 5K sounds a lot to me in a modern motor, but perhaps I have always been lucky.
Humph - as our high milegage driver here how much does the squashy use?
|
New engines do use more oil and I am hoping it will settle down. That said normal to me is with the Fiestas, which used 1 litre per 1000 miles if they work, and if they don't 1 litre per 100 miles.
Also remember this is not a modern engine, it was introduced in 1984, it is an 8v single camshaft engine. All the electrics are modern, as is the multipoint injection, but the engine itself is near 30 year old design.
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Wed 14 Sep 11 at 17:21
|
|
Again suggests Edge 5w/40 but it doesn't meet the C3 specifications. My feeling is that the manual is wrong, and the people are right, as was FIAT, but people are being too anal about this on the FIAT forum, confusing me further.
|
Ive never put oil in the Sirion in 34k, its never used any since it was new, ive only taken the cap off once, not sure why I bothered though.
Glad I dont have a smokey oil-burning italian jalopy :-p
|
But I would have fallen asleep in the Datsun :)* Sorry Daihatsu.
|
Perhaps, you get more time to rest when your not playing home mechanic with bottles of oil :-) I dont even know what oil the Sirion takes.
Datsun - Nissan. Daihatsu - Toyota. You been sniffing the coolant again chap, close the blinking bonnet and take it for a drive!
|
I know that, it was a joke as I made a typo when I typed in Daihatsu, and it came up as Datsun :). Was a spell checker joke.
|
|
Spellchecker joke. I dont get out much but damn Rats. Go get laid or summit.
|
|
Qashqai - None at all between services. Neither of them do and nor did any of the Mondeos. The Signum did though at the rate of about 0.5 Lt every 3k.
Last edited by: Humph D'Bout on Wed 14 Sep 11 at 18:03
|
I'm not sure that 85 on a motorway and a steep hill quite qualify as thrashing a car Rattle ;-) You'd be breaking out in a sweat at the treatment my first car (a Fiat Uno) received...and it was probably the same engine!!
Peter
Last edited by: PeterS on Wed 14 Sep 11 at 17:24
|
>> You'd be breaking out in a sweat at the treatment
>> my first car (a Fiat Uno) received...and it was probably the same engine!!
>>
>> Peter
>>
Likewise our family MK1 panda, usually driven at valve bounce speeds, two kids had their early driving experiences (and probably some non driving ones) in it. It never had even semi synthetic oil anywhere near it. Still going like a good 'un until the rust bug ate it.
|
|
If it was a FIRE the again down to the simple engines, which is again why I think the people on the FIAT forum are being fussy. It is not some complex 24v BMW engine which produces 500bhp, but a 54bhp 8v SOHC.
|
>> it is approaching half way between the max and minimum marks.
It doesn't need topping up. Just keep an eye on it.
|
|
rattle, you gave it a go, tried hard, but you really dont get cars or motoring, give it up, sell the Fiat.
|
|
What do you mean by that?
|
>> What do you mean by that?
Motoring and car ownership is a practical, liberating, enjoyable, albeit expensive experience. You turn the whole thing into a pain inducing hair shirt wearing self flagelation exercise. All you get is the expense and none of the other benefits.
Sell the car, mentally you will be much better off as well as financially
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 14 Sep 11 at 18:09
|
|
Your tyres will have worn down a little too, so don't forget the top-up rubber solution to bring them back to maximum tread. They did tell you about that - didn't they?
|
Methinks you worry a little too much Rattle. As others have said, it doesn't really need topping up, just keep an eye on it.
|
|
I think Rattle is the perfect customer for a Gwhiz - short journeys, low mileage, and no oil to worry about :-)
|
|
I think the fact that Rattle did not drive for two years after passing his test to avoid getting points and loosing his licence gives a good indication of his outlook on matters motoring.
|
>> Why does your car need a top up, Ratts? Have you been thrashing it to
>> within an inch of seizure, and scaring your passengers witless.
>>
More like its never been driven hard enough, and the bores have glazed....
|
Aye that's it the bores are glazed.>:)
Don't worry Rattle live is for living.
|
Ignore the C3 bit - it is only important for DPFs.
5w40 synthetic - any will do, and all will mix with each other without problems.
Sine it will maybe reduce your blood pressure a little, go and buy a litre of 5w40 Helix.
How many FIRE units have you heard of dying from the wrong oil being used?
Job jobbed.
|
Our Panda has had Selenia 20K 5w40 in it since new - it's what the book recommends, and it's what my dealer uses. Car runs well on it and doesn't exactly have a sheltered life. If our 100 bhp 16v 1.4 FIRE is fine with it, your 1.1 should - and will - be.
The Selenia product also has the considerable advantage of being about half the price of the VW 507 00 long-life stuff that my in-laws' new Polo has to have.
|
Some of you may mock the OP for wanting to top up his oil - at least he checked the oil level.
Put my Xedos in for an MoT & Service and there was a 4/5 yr old Fiesta in with a seized engine - no oil check in just under 12 months.....................since service last October.
PS Xedos passed MoT - only advisory was 3mm on a tyre (known replacement) - not bad or a 13 yr old car - shortly for sale - 2 owners in 13 yrs - mine for the last 12+ years.
|
|
If he has taken the dipstick out every day and wiped it that is probably where all the oil went. :-)
|
|
I only check it about every three weeks, should do it more often really.
|
>> I only check it about every three weeks, should do it more often really.
>>
But Rattle - that's only every 50 miles! ;-)
|
|
About 300 actually. Done 70 miles since Sunday. I may not go far, but I do spend a lot of time in my car.
|
Should have got a DVD player for when sat in it :-) Only joking.
I filled the car up to full about 8 days ago... well below half a tank left. Trying to send it back on a quarter of a tank of fuel. Tricky to get right. I go away for two weeks (so no posts on new cars from me) next Friday. And get my next car the day I come back. Not giving away half a tank of diesel! :-)
Rattle don't buy a diesel with DPF - well you don't do the mileage. But more importantly some like my Mazda6 make oil levels rise!
|
|
I try and get away with spending £16 a week on fuel, but sometimes it doesn't work and have to top it up. Always too worried to fill up though, the last time my dad put a full tank of fuel in a car he wrote it off just 5 minutes later.
|
...Always too worried to fill up though...
Rats, you are always too worried, full stop.
|
>> Always too worried to fill up though,
>> the last time my dad put a full tank of fuel in a car he
>> wrote it off just 5 minutes later.
>>
On that basis you should avoid doing lots of things. How annoying to have just wasted half an hour washing the car and then to write it off.
Also make sure you are always wearing your best clothes - it would be embarrassing to be questioned by police or admitted to hospital with a hole in your jumper, or wearing brown shoes.
As the sign said "Accident black-spot ahead. Last chance to change underwear"
|
>>As the sign said "Accident black-spot ahead. Last chance to change underwear"<<<
What is the origin of 'black spot' in this phrase? If it had been 'brown spot' it would have been immediately understandable.
|
...What is the origin of 'black spot' in this phrase?...
It may (bear in mind the usual wiki caution) have something to do with the book Treasure Island:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Spot_%28Treasure_Island%29
|
Interesting. I remember the black spot from both Treasure Island and A Ransome.
Or perhaps in "accident black spot" it just means the concentration of dots on a map indicating the frequency of incidents ?
|
May I suggest that "black" in the phrase "black spot" draws on the association between the colour black and morbidity/disaster/general badness?
Other examples of this association might be:
Black Wednesday (1992)
Black humour
Blacklist
Blackmail
Black sheep
The black economy
The black arts
Black magic
Black is also the colour of mourning.
Last edited by: FocalPoint on Thu 15 Sep 11 at 18:24
|
Black ball.
black beard (the pirate)
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 15 Sep 11 at 18:36
|
>> black beard (the pirate)
>>
My beard is more grey than black these days. :)
|
>> I try and get away with spending £16 a week on fuel, but sometimes it
>> doesn't work and have to top it up. Always too worried to fill up though,
>> the last time my dad put a full tank of fuel in a car he
>> wrote it off just 5 minutes later.
>>
Lifes to short to spend time in the petrol station each week. Brim it and then go back when its empty. Simples
|
>>
>> Lifes to short to spend time in the petrol station each week. Brim it and
>> then go back when its empty. Simples
>>
Same here
|
>>
>> PS Xedos passed MoT - only advisory was 3mm on a tyre (known replacement) -
>> not bad or a 13 yr old car - shortly for sale - 2 owners
>> in 13 yrs - mine for the last 12+ years.
>>
likewise with my K series V6, similar to yours albeit only the lowly 1.8. 6k miles covered since ownership and one small top up (half dipstick) and 13 years old. Engine relaibly jap and silky smooth but muppet here overtightened the disty cap cracking the casing and snapped bolt in disty mounts! i think cv joint my be required on my MOT though.
|
>> I try and get away with spending £16 a week on fuel, but sometimes it
>> doesn't work and have to top it up. Always too worried to fill up though,
Strange lad our Rattle.
He wants to keep his oil at the max mark, but quite happy to run around with his fuel tank somewhere between max and min. ;>)
|
|
There is petrol stations on every street corner here so it is not an issue. I also never get it so low that the light comes on.
|
>> There is petrol stations on every street corner here so it is not an issue.
>> I also never get it so low that the light comes on.
And I never fill up until the light has come on; that still gives me 45/50 miles - can't think of many places in the UK where you'd have to travel further than that for fuel?
Life's too short to visit petrol stations more often than necessary :-) Although as the cost of a tank can now exceed £90 it wont be long before I'll have to have two 'goes' at the pay at pump machine; its limited to £100...
|
>>pay at pump machine;
I've never taken that option, preferring instead to saunter into the shop for a leisurely browse, and perhaps pick up a bar of chocolate and glance at the headlines.
Only joking...
|
...pay at pump machine...
I like those because I reckon the chances of my payment card being cloned are next to nil.
|
Pay at the pump machines, and an acceptance of the fact that the hose will reach round the car, means that I am often in and out of my local Shell station before people who arrived before me but insist on queing behind someone (who is probably shopping) so they can use a pump on the 'right' side have even got to the pump ;-)
Peter
|
|
The shop is the only way if you want to use your 5p Tesco vouchers. Had two today, one from our regular Tesco delivery and one because we bought 18 rolls of Andrex that we needed anyway. Pity I was in the Verso, which will only take 44 litres even when it claims to be gasping, but I'll have two more by the time the Volvo needs its full 63.
|
>> There is petrol stations on every street corner here so it is not an issue.
>> I also never get it so low that the light comes on.
>>
Have you checked that the light actually works?
|
>> Have you checked that the light actually works?
>>
I don't know if mine does, never been that low on fuel. I zero one of the trips at each fill, and my car does about 100 miles per quarter tank, so I have a cross check if the gauge lies or the light is duff.
|
...I zero one of the trips...
More than one trip?
Didn't realise Kias were that posh.
My Ford only has one, and that's a fiddle to reset because you have to go into the trip computer.
Good tip not to rely solely on the gauge, service training again, I guess.
|
>> Good tip not to rely solely on the gauge, service training again, I guess.
>>
>>
That and a Mrs who does not believe the computers fuel consumption figure, even though it is remarkably accurate. KIAs are a surprise to the uninitiated who only see the badge.
A button on the steering wheel resets trip 1 or 2, and others answer the phone, and work the audio system, cruise control etc. :)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Fri 16 Sep 11 at 14:32
|
"KIAs are a surprise to the uninitiated "
Shock more like it. Got lumbered again with a Kia Forte as a hire car whilst in Canada. Not sure if you can get this pile of poo in the UK but it was one of the worst hire cars I have had. Completely lifeless steering and underpowered (alright it was an automatic). Drab and cheap interior. Swapped if for a Focus the second week. Infinitely superior in nearly every way.
|
>>More than one trip?
My Nissan's got three! Two in the speedo and one on the trip computer.
Why?
|
>> >>More than one trip?
>>
>> My Nissan's got three! Two in the speedo and one on the trip computer.
>>
>> Why?
>>
1, Business mileage.
2, Private mileage.
3, Fuel gauge backup.
:)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Fri 16 Sep 11 at 15:24
|
|
VWs I've had in the past had two trip computers. One you had to reset yourself and the other reset automatically after (I think) two hours.
|
Oil - I am very confused about what oil to buy - Zero
