Hope the pilot is ok!
Always enjoy them!
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Seeing footage on the BBC, you can see the plane low and seem to go down. No obvious sign of a pilot ejecting :-(
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Can't find any news on the pilot as of now.
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>>Hope the pilot is ok!
I hope so, too.
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>> Can't find any news on the pilot as of now.
Strange that it hasn't been mentioned. Hope that isn't a bad sign.
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Alas, it looks like they have accrued their first casualty.
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>> Alas, it looks like they have accrued their first casualty.
I believe there have been fatalities in the past.
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look like you may be right, the ITV news has made a mistake
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Arrows#Incidents_and_accidents
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Now confirmed that the pilot has died.
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Arrows grounded till cause examined.
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Was in Bournemouth Sunday. Not the same without the Red Arrows in the sky, but given the sad circumstances it was quite understandable.
Would the RA planes have a black box flight recorder on board, or are they only mainly fitted to passenger aircraft? Presumably there would be cockpit communication between him and the other RA's and / or back at their base prior to the crash that can shed some light on what happened?
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We will only get told what we get told.
Very sad for such a young man and his family.
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There is likely to be an interim report pretty quickly, its a public perception thing.
Had there been pilot to ground chatter, it would have been public by now, there were probably 7 gazillion radio scanners down that way on that day.
Flight data recorders are not normally fitted to RAF planes (the need to keep weight down), as far as I know only the Eurofighter Typhoon has a FDR ( a solid state one) so there is probably not one in the Hawk T1,
Everyone is saying total sudden engine failure, and that probably means bird strike.
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 22 Aug 11 at 08:08
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At present a large chunk of the training programme has been halted.
When that is restarted a public statement will have to be made.
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His widow is the epitome of British stiff upper lip, from the statement she made.
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>> His widow is the epitome of British stiff upper lip, from the statement she made.
>>
Quite so. She would no doubt have become an excellent station commander's wife in the future.
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Press reports (Daily Mail) point to bird remains being found near crash site. Some other reports suggest there was a Mayday call though like Zero I'm surprised, given the number of scanners that would be montoring the Reds fx that detail has not been reported.
Possibly restraint by editors or fear of proceedings under Wireless Telegraphy or Interception of Comms legislation?
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Somewhere on the web I found that Red1 had done a Mayday, but on the basis that "one of our team is missing - details please".
That one though is not very reportable as it just states the case, and I think had Red4 done one, it would have got out by now, facebook and twits etc. In any event, although the source used probably would be a scanner, so many legal users were there, a report could have come from any of them. So I'd doubt the press would be too worried.
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Much of the national press speculation seems to have its source on this Bournemouth Echo article/comments:-
tinyurl.com/3gfrhpm - links to www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news
Does seem odd that the pilot, ejector seat and parachute were all found in different places.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 23 Aug 11 at 00:22
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>> Does seem odd that the pilot, ejector seat and parachute were all found in different
>> places.
Not if broke into pieces on impact, either ejected too low and at the wrong attitude, or smashed from the wreckage. I would guess no ejection was attempted.
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 22 Aug 11 at 17:10
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>> There is likely to be an interim report pretty quickly, its a public perception thing.
>>
>>
>> Had there been pilot to ground chatter, it would have been public by now, there
>> were probably 7 gazillion radio scanners down that way on that day.
>>
>> Flight data recorders are not normally fitted to RAF planes (the need to keep weight
>> down), as far as I know only the Eurofighter Typhoon has a FDR ( a
>> solid state one) so there is probably not one in the Hawk T1,
Most have ADR fitted to them, infact I can't think of one that doesn't have some sort on it. I think they are all solid state now. Some are retrofitted and aren't as slick as the new one's on modern jets, but they still do the job.
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BBC now reporting whole Hawk T1 fleet, c170 frames, to be grounded.
Must be quiet at Valley PU?
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It is today no jets around all day" which is odd on a week-day. 22 San being flying high over the island today - some buffoon was waving at it in Asda car-park and talking about prince William !
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We had a Chinook land near here, looks like it landed round Wisley / Ripley way.
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Related to this accident - it occurred to me that we've become very mawkish as a country! Sad as it is isn't it a bit odd that people laid flowers outside RAF Scampton and set up a Facebook tribute page ?
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I dont think its mawkish (normally I am first to agree with that sentiment) but the Arrows are much loved, and have been much watched all round the country. There is a touch of showbiz about it.
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I accept the perspective Zero. It jars on my Methodist upbringing probably, and I apologise to anyone who was offended.
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I agree with Zero.
The Arrows are a national institution. I was wowed by them as a kid, and I'm still wowed by them today. Even though I didn't know the chap who was killed from Adam, and neither would I claim to, I feel quite a strong 'attachment' (for want of a better word) to the squadron as a whole as I suspect a lot of people do. They have entertained me throughout my entire life, and I hope they continue to do so for the rest of it.
RIP.
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I completely agree with both DP & Zero.
I was fortunate enough to see the Arrows in July, and would hate to think that was my last chance.
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Saw them in Whitby last Monday (15th) - never seen up close before that I can recall, utterly spectacular, if a tad on the loud side. Very sad news.
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There is an on-line book of condolence, should anyone want to add a message to it.
www.raf.mod.uk/reds/behindthescenes/fltltjonegging.cfm
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O.K. in attempt to rectify my lack of sensitivity....one of my favourite poems..
Seems appropriate in the circumstances...
Oh! I have slipped the surly bonds of Earth
And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings;
Sunward I've climbed, and joined the tumbling mirth
Of sun-split clouds, — and done a hundred things
You have not dreamed of — wheeled and soared and swung
High in the sunlit silence. Hov'ring there,
I've chased the shouting wind along, and flung
My eager craft through footless halls of air. . . .
Up, up the long, delirious burning blue
I've topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace
Where never lark, or ever eagle flew —
And, while with silent, lifting mind I've trod
The high untrespassed sanctity of space,
Put out my hand, and touched the face of God.
— John Gillespie Magee, Jr
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Thanks RP.
Brought tears.
Do I remember correctly that Ronald Reagan quoted this after the Challenger disaster?
Very Moving.
Neil
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First saw them in about 1966 at the Woodford Air Show.
Took some black and white photos for a photography course I was on.
Very pleased with the result.
I still have them somewhere......
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John Magee was a gifted poet. He won prizes for his work while he was a pupil at Rugby and he was only 19 years old when he died. He wrote many fine poems but this one, relating to the death and burial of another poet, Rupert Brooke, is the equal of High Flight IMO.
"Sonnet to Rupert Brooke"
"We laid him in a cool and shadowed grove
One evening in the dreamy scent of thyme
Where leaves were green, and whispered high above —
A grave as humble as it was sublime;
There, dreaming in the fading deeps of light —
The hands that thrilled to touch a woman's hair;
Brown eyes, that loved the Day, and looked on Night,
A soul that found at last its answered Prayer...
There daylight, as a dust, slips through the trees.
And drifting, gilds the fern around his grave —
Where even now, perhaps, the evening breeze
Steals shyly past the tomb of him who gave
New sight to blinded eyes; who sometimes wept —
A short time dearly loved; and after, — slept."
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In October Jon Egging was due to take part in a charity cycle ride from coast to coast across the UK. This was with other Red Arrows and the RAF Historic Flight. It was to raise money for the RAF Association and the charity fly2help.
uk.virginmoneygiving.com/fundraiser-web/fundraiser/showFundraiserProfilePage.action?userUrl=RAFATrider4
It would appear from the comments left in the last day or so, that John's widow, Emma will be doing the ride, in his memory.
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>> uk.virginmoneygiving.com/fundraiser-web/fundraiser/showFundraiserProfilePage.action?userUrl=RAFATrider4
>> It would appear from the comments left in the last day or so, that John's
>> widow, Emma will be doing the ride, in his memory.
>>
Surprising that only £1,245.00 (at 22.00 hrs) raised since 11 May 2011.
My £50 will be on its way there soon.
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Is this the moment that a Red Arrow was downed? Mystery 'explosion' under plane is caught on camera:
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2029536/
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Looks nothing like an explosion. What a rubbish article.
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>> Looks nothing like an explosion. What a rubbish article.
>>
Agreed, looks much more like light reflecting off something; just crap to fill a page.
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.....and rubbing the noses of friends and relatives in more graphic reporting, did they have to remind their readers that the poor guy was found face down in a river....(no need to answer that)
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Heard a jet overhead this morning first thing - followed a few hours later by a pair of Hawks....guess the grounding has been lifted. Assumed the first jet was the "weather aircraft"..
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It has been reported the Red Arrow have been given the go ahead to fly again. They must have identified the cause of the accident and it's not related to the Hawker T1s. Which is good as we need them to train new RAF pilots. Forget the cost of buyer replacements, I was thinking more the lead time.
I wonder if it was down to a bird strike in the end? We'll find out in due course.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Thu 25 Aug 11 at 14:20
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The aircraft have a good safety record, grounding the whole fleet was a precaution, if something catastrophically wrong with the design I think it would have manifested itself by now. Looks like its down to an external cause, Pilot problem or maintenance issue.
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Almost certainly more than one cause, nearly all accidents are. With no doubt a chance to stop it, the 'swiss cheese' accident.
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BBC report the grounding as ended. Reds displays likley to be cancelled for remainder of season though.
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Another one just passed undercarriage down - must be circuits and bumps at Mona today !
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www.dailypost.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/2011/08/25/red-arrows-to-fly-again-after-crash-55578-29301412/
A report on today's local paper - notoriously unreliable on the reporting front so add your own salt.
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I would think the implications of letting the Hawk T1s again was more to do with training new pilots than the Red Arrows flying again at air shows. As a mark of respect I'd hope they don't fly again too soon.
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>> mark of respect I'd hope they don't fly again too soon.
As a mark of respect, I hope they do, I'm sure thats what he would have wanted.
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Apparently they're lined up for shows in early September albeit as an 8 ship display....
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Looks like they're leaving Hurn tomorrow morning, will I ever see them again, who knows.
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The aircraft are fit to fly and will be leaving Hurn soon, if they haven't already. They will then practice an 8 aircraft routine ready to resume displays on 31st August, subject to a decision on the matter by RAF/MOD. They have an 8 aircraft display rehearsed to cover the odd occasion when one aircraft might go u/s on start-up so it is nothing new.
www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/25/red-arrows-resume-flying-crash
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They were penciled in to do a display at the White Horse Show at Uffington this Bank Holiday Monday. It was announced yesterday that due to the accident in Bournemouth last Saturday they wouldn't now be appearing.
Upon hearing the news today that the Reds had been cleared to fly again, I thought the decision would have been reversed and they would be at the WH Show after all. Alas no it would seem.
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As it happens I saw the Arrows do an 8 ship display some years ago on the Wirral. One of the pilots had broken his arm, by a falling off the wing, ISTR
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These are the cream of the Air Force's pilots, which means veterans of conflict - don't estimate the esprit de corps that exists in any group of people that work in close quarters - they will be back and be as good as ever...
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I have always enjoyed the Red Arrows and was saddened by the crash and on thinking about it, have realised that it is because in my mind these young men are flying as part of our national defense and put their lives at risk to defend us.
Respect to all in the services really!
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They should fly the missing man formation over the crash site & carry on with the shows as booked as the pilot im sure would have wanted that.
RAF THE BEST IN THE WORLD. !!
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Hawks are a out and about today again - normality returns. Interesting history to the Missing Man formation....quite poignant.
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>> Hawks are a out and about today again - normality returns. Interesting history to the
>> Missing Man formation....quite poignant.
>>
Indeed, the singleton Hawk display aircraft from RAF Valley appeared at the Clacton airshow this afternoon piloted by Flt Lt Jules Fleming, appropriately an East Anglian lass, born in Cambridge, educated in Ipswich and obtained her PPL at Southend's Seawing Flying Club.
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www.raf.mod.uk/reds/displayinfo/displaydates.cfm
Seems that shows from 2.9.11 don't appear to be cancelled...
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>> Seems that shows from 2.9.11 don't appear to be cancelled...
Might be worth going to Duxford next w/e then?
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Along with 5 million other folks....
Find somewhere nearby to park and watch from afar!
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-14755678
The Red Arrows are to perform in public for the first time since one of their pilots was killed in a jet crash.
The team will fly at RAF Linton-on-Ouse families day in North Yorkshire and at Chatsworth House Country Fair in Derbyshire on Friday.
A performance at Portrush in Northern Ireland on Saturday has been cancelled.
A return to Chatsworth and an appearance at the Duxford Airshow in Cambridgeshire on Sunday are also off.
The team is due to fly at the Guernsey Battle of Britain Air Display and Jersey International Air Display on 8 September.
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Surprised about Duxford, thought that's the one they would try and make.
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Did anyone read the additional articles on scavengers stealing parts from the downed aircraft..?
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-14731599
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Im not surprised as most aircraft parts have the part number and serial numbers on the panels and instruments and in time to come will be worth more than today, just look at ww2 parts and Lightning parts etc.
Soverneir hunters make top money and they will end up on e bay and e bay should ban it.!!
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Top team im sure he's saluting you & you salute him.
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Red Arrow Down - zippy
