Header note for those who are new, or have been on the moon:p The wheel arch is rusted badly, it is a MK4 Fiesta.
Sadly I don't have a picture yet as the car is on the ramps having a new CV boot and shock absorber fitted.
However he was convinced that me and my dad can do the wheel arch our selves, but I am still not sure.
OK so I knock the rusted part of the wheel arch out (it won't be hard) what do I then stick the filler to? Won't there just be a hollow hole and a plastic wheel arch behind the metal quarter panel?
It is the entire arch which needs to be removed and perhaps 4" inch upwards, the rust is internal which makes it harder too.
I am worried my dad will end up driving a car with no wing if I get this wrong! However I am also convinced we can't leave this, the underneath is not too bad, but if this rust is left it will spread making sure it won't get an MOT next year.
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Never done it to a car, but in patching anything else I'd put a bit of suitable material behind, a piece of galvanised steel gauze for instance glued/otherwise stuck to the solid bits, and then attach the filler to the gauze. Can't imagine that the car solution is any different...
Of course, as you're using filler you can customise the new arch and give the car a new look ;)
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It is the rear one.
I've done it before on my first Fiesta, but it was only around 6 inches I need to knock out, so it was easy. I actually still have primer and filler left over from my banger days, but I've never done on this scale.
The filler is not a bad idea, I am thinking a sort of paper mashai (sorry don't know how to spell the word, need a dictionary!) to pack it out before putting the filler in.
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>> paper mashai
That's the stuff from Birmingham.
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You can get steel gauze from Halfords Rats, they have a whole section for doing this kind of work, its very easy to shape, you just attach it on the edge of the gap with some filler, wait for it to dry, then build your shape once its fixed in place.
The most important thing is to find the edge of the rust and I always use some of that rust converter which seems to work, does stain though if you splash it about and you need to seal both sides of your work too.
Might be worth a good look around the rest of the underside while your at it, see if you cant prevent any future need for such exploits while your playing.
Post us a piccy, I did a pretty smart arch repair on the Daewoo before it blew up, you could hardly tell it was there.
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>>I did a pretty smart arch repair on the Daewoo before it blew up, you could hardly tell it was there.
Errr, I think you'll find you could hardly tell the Daewoo was there AFTER it blew up...
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My son had a Mark3 fiesta and I repaired the rear wheel arch on that.. Cut off all rusty bits, painted what's left with zinc paint and then a coat of ordinay paint, pop rivetted steel sheet to fill gap.. and then about 1 lb of filler moulded to fill contours. Lots of time smoothing it .. Primed and sprayed with Ford white.. Undersealed with Waxoyl based sealer.. Lasted 4 years until engine died...
Total cost - under £20.
From 3 metres away it looked OK...
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I did similar to a Triumph 1300 FWD once. Cut out the duff bits from both wings, kill the rust, metal gauze backing the huge holes, fill, sand, rub and spray. Took ages to get all the lines right and I must have used 20 quid's worth of filler alone.
A couple of days after finishing that job I was in Unipart picking up some other bits. The storesman voluteered the information that they were having a stock clearance, complete new wings for the car were a tenner each and would I like a couple? This caused me something of a sense of humour failure at the time.
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Welcome TC. Have you come across from the dark side?
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Yes 'tis the same old me you recognise from "the other place", as they say in parliament.
I finally got one of the subtle hints on offer the other day.....
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well I would get a flexible drill extension, with a wire brush on the end, and i would attack all the rust with it. One I am back to somehting firm i would paint it liberally with kurust and then wash it off. Then make up your gauze to size, and stick to the inside, let it dry then apply your filler from the outside, run down and spray can. Paint the inside of the arch with underseal.
However, chances are you wont have fill it. Just kurust it and paint it.
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The rust is from the inside out, otherwise I would have done the KRUST a while ago.
I think the cause was trapped mud under the arch, causing the moisture to escape through the arch.
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Doesnt matter where the rust is coming from, you dont need to cut it all out, just get off the stuff thats flakey and scabby. Kurust turns the rest into useable solid. You will find you need to cut out far less than you need..
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Yes son's was like that.. It will rust again whatever you do, so the trick is to do a reasonable job which can be touched up every 6 months.. And try to seal the other side with a wax based underseal..
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>>I think the cause was trapped mud under the arch
Then the last thing you want to use is Papier-mâché. It'll just soak up the water and hold it like a sponge ensuring conditions are perfect for future rusting.
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Why mess around
www.clevelandpanels.com/ford/ford-fiesta-4-96-99/rear-wheel-arch-r-h-5-door.html
Cut out the section that you need, temp fix in place (self tappers if you must), then borrow a MIG welder.
You will need less filler - probably cheaper overall, and a much better repair. You can add something new to your skill set. Just having a MIG in the garage is worth it for those odd jobs that you not yet thought of.
Last edited by: pmh on Thu 11 Aug 11 at 17:37
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So you fancy rattle, whos never welded before, to do a good job on a thin car panel.
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Welding is for wingnuts.. and will be a LOT more expensive.. fire extinguisher, clamps to hold panel in place, formers, hammers and dollies, etc etc etc.
£20 of filler and a piece of steel and some poprivets....plus paint, deruster and underseal...
Rattle welding = major fire (apologies Rats but welding is NOT easy - well it is - after lots of practice)..
I set fire to a Mini welding it: the wax in the sills went up.. I had a hose ready...
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>>>Rattle welding = major fire (apologies Rats but welding is NOT easy - well it is - after lots of practice)..<<<
But it would make for an exciting thread :)
Ted has helped him out before - I would be surprised if he has not got the kit.
If he can borrow kit and has a little practice he should be able to make a reasonable job. The only additional consumables are wire and gas ....
I taught myself of the back end of a mini, boot floor and rear cross member, as a first project. Much more difficult, was not the tidiest job but it all held together when it was later used a a grass track racer
Last edited by: pmh on Thu 11 Aug 11 at 18:36
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Ted has already been a great support for me by using my business services, the last thing I would want is for him to help me any further. Anyway this is my dads car, not mine, I have a nice new Panda which still has just about less than 5k on the clock and it just gets better with every 500 miles it has its clock.
Welding really isn't for me. I am only just learning how to solder again after 12 years absence. I am quite good at electronics, and can diagnose sensor issues etc as well as anybody I am just hopeless when it comes to mechanics.
I will take a picture tomorrow, but I am thinking so far the safest option is to scrape all the bubbles off, and use krust and reprime. I could do this every six months to stop it getting worse. Although the car is an R reg, the VIN says it was built in March 1996, but because it was a Ghia in green and a 1.3 pushrod engine nobody wanted a car in that spec. Who wanted a car with a push rod engine and electric seats in 1996?
So in terms of VIN it is already over 15 years old, it is not going to last for ever, I just need a smarten up job to get it through one last MOT.
Again this is not my car, but I just do the basic servicing on it as apart of the cheap rent deal, I have to provide my dad with a motor, which is why I bought the car. If my room was a private room it would cost me £500 a month, so it is still a very good deal.
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We used to use scrunched up chicken wire mesh.
The trick is to bend down a bit while washing the car and just hose the mud (and salt of course) off the inside of the wheel arch lips. I know it's a bit late now...
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Yeah, the lancer has the old fashioned lip round the arch, and the old fashioned mud trap in front of the rear wheels where stones and mud gather. No rear wheel arch liner. It needs to be hosed regularly.
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In addition to washing out the wheelarches regularily, every couple of weeks during the winter i also stand a rotary lawn sprinkler underneath the car to wash all the salt and carp off.
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Have you tried getting a wheelarch section from a panel suppliers, they used to be very cheap, must be someone in your area that suppliers repair panels.
It will be a perfect fit, simply rivet the thing in place, fill the edges and smooth over the rivet heads, rub down and paint over, you'll be able to see the join though.
The job will be much stronger than simply filling, no need to cut out and weld it in unless you're trying to make a perfect finish.
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An angle grinder with a sanding disc is much quicker than a wire brush on a drill if you want to go down that route, but you will need eye protection.
I echo the advice of replacing the entire wheel arch instead of messing around with filler and glue.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 20 Aug 11 at 16:27
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can we have f a r t removed from the swear filter. The filter make it look far worse!
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FART... =(TEST TRANSMISSION)
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>> The filter make it look far worse!
You could have used the word faffing instead.
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Finally managed to get a picture of it, as you can see it is as bad as it can get.
i167.photobucket.com/albums/u141/amazingtrade/P1060271.jpg
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That needs a pre formed wheelarch from a panel shop Rattie and fair bit of chopped glass fibre i'd wager to fill the gaps in at the back of it, one clout with a hammer and the whole arch will vanish.
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On the basis that it is ALWAYS worse than what you can actually see I stick to my suggestion above - new panel!
To bodge and fill will take hours when you could actually be earning money - so investing in a new skill would worth while.
I repeat
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Why mess around
www.clevelandpanels.com/ford/ford-fiesta-4-96-99/rear-wheel-arch-r-h-5
-door.html
Cut out the section that you need, temp fix in place (self tappers if you must), then borrow a MIG welder.
<<<
Last edited by: pmh on Sun 14 Aug 11 at 13:25
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Thats too much to cut and fill, needs a new panel let in as per wot PMH says.
Should have caught that much earlier, would have been an easier job then
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Sand/grind away paint/loose rust. Kurust. Paint. It won't look great, but it will look better. Tourmaline green is a beggar to match properly anyway, specially from a rattle can.
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a new panel job surely?
i'd leave it alone as it passed an MOT. leave it alone till next MOT and see what happens. i wouldnt be spending money on that car as there's a good chance that something will go wrong in the next 12months to make it uneconomical to repair
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Given the car is worth about the same as a Cadburys Twirl, id find something else rather than spend cash on that sort of repair.
Ive not seen rust that bad since I bought a Metro that stood in a field.
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It may have passed an MoT but I would guess that its a pull waiting to happen if you continue to use it! The edges look potentially sharp. I am not sure that in the leafy suburbs of London that you would get an MoT. Any of the qualified testers like to comment?
At the very least get some waterproof Duct Tape to cover the splits and hide the sharp edges, if it is good enough for NASA en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duct_tape see para3!....
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good idea, just duct tape it and leave it alone. save some money and get something newer in the spring
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I'd go with duct tape as well.
If you're going to repair it properly, you need a new panel. Anything less is a waste of time and effort.
The duct tape will avoid any legal concerns. I wouldn't worry about anything further.
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Wow, its a long time since i saw rust as bad as that. I am a bit surprised that it passed the MOT too, not only because of the rough edges situation, but the structure of the car must be really weakend on that corner. I agree with the duck tape and leave it posts, start trying to do anything with it and you will have nothing left to work with !
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I haven't seen a car that looks like that in years. It must be on the verge of being unroadworthy. MOT testers don't normally like rough edges like that.
I've got an idea. The tyre looks to be in decent nick. Why not keep the wheel and replace the rest of the car?
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Got £120 of brand new tyres on the front too, from the rest of the car it is in good knick, it is just thing wing which is the problem, there isn't any dents or any real scratches to speak off either.
Where are the sharp edges? Maybe it is the camera but it is very smooth when you feel it.
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if there are no sharp edges then leave it be till next MOT
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There will be very little of that arch left once you grind it back. That rust is appalling, I've not seen rust as bad as that since some of the horrors in the 1970s. These Fiestas certainly like to rust on the back arches, I've seen several local ones on 02 plates with shabby rear arches. Enough to make you buy French (maybe not...)
Last edited by: The Melting Snowman on Wed 24 Aug 11 at 20:24
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>> i167.photobucket.com/albums/u141/amazingtrade/P1060271.jpg
Classic rust-trap rear wing damage - I believe KAs can go just as bad.
I wouldn't touch that with a bargepole - if you want to try to eke out another 2-3 years it needs a part-panel repair but I'd bet there's more rust on the way elsewhere on the car.
Gaffer-tape is fine if those bubbles flake apart to leave sharp edges - as mentioned if you try rubbing that back you'll see the arch fall apart before you have any decent metal to work with.
Best to enjoy running it knowing any serious failures don't require any stress or worry whether to fix or not as the car's a goner anyway in the next year or two.
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I think from the comments since I posted the pictures, I am going to leave it, its approaching 100k and most the engine is original so I wouldn't be surprise if something serious went in the next year to kill it anyway.
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I've only just looked at this thread.
It is bad, I would have attacked it with a small ball-pein hammer to see what falls out...It looks to me as though there is a lot of bog already in there. If you want a reasonable job, then a part-panel is the way to go. You can get one in Sale, near the Citroen dealers.
Measure how high the rust goes, you need some good metal to attach the panel to.
To do a simple job, use pop rivets or drill 3 mm holes, countersink them and fit with countersunk head self tappers. Then grind the heads flush. Run a bit of filler round the overlap, flat it with 40 grit production paper and brush paint it with a similar green household gloss.
I have all the stuff to do the work...you're welcome to use it, even the MIG !
It's really on it's last legs, though...get a sound car and keep the wheels, tyres and some bits off this one.
Ted
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Wheel arch job - tips - madf
