Just a question. When police leave is cancelled do they get repaid for any holidays that they have paid for?
(Personally I would hope so, though as a tax payer I think, ouch.)
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It would be peanuts compared to the overtime bill.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Wed 10 Aug 11 at 19:03
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I was wondering, family holiday to Florida is going to cost £5k to £10k, do things like this get scrubbed or do the bosses let some go and ask others to stay on?
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Also, is there some kind of regulations about hours/day worked, consecutive days on, etc etc.
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When I was involved in a joint operation with the police they worked our system of three days days, three nights, and three days off, for three months. All 12 hour shifts. They did well on overtime (5 traffic drivers and 5 local beat guys.). As this was funded by the then Home Office the navy was generous with our allowances too. :-)
The disciplined services can be very flexible, at times you work hard, but it can have many perks. Or it did before budgets became the priority.
Last edited by: Webmaster on Fri 12 Aug 11 at 09:15
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Perhaps the title should have read....Police leave.......everyone alone.
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What if you#re already out of the country, Australia, Thailand, The States, Frinton........Can they make you come back ?
Ted
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>>
>> What if you#re already out of the country, Australia, Thailand, The States, Frinton........Can they make
>> you come back ?
Well If I was a copper abroad and they wanted me back
a: they would have to find me to contact me.
and
b: pay for the unscheduled flight.
and
c: dont go to Frinton.
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 10 Aug 11 at 22:49
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Government employees can only afford to travel the world after they retire. :-)
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>>>Where annual leave is cancelled, there is no compensation under Police Regulations
That is plainly unfair!
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I read the linked text to say no compensation for the cancelled leave. No mention if they do or don't pay for the cancelled holiday. If they don't then that is unfair.
As already said, if already over seas, can they expect you to come back? Some places might only have a few flights a week too (thinking of some Greek islands) and they might be full.
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Dragging a PC sunning him/herself on a beach in Greece would be a disproportionate response - it ain't going to happen, unless that Officer has an unique skill that is urgently required, such as a PSU tactical adviser - it's all press froth and nonsense, choosing to believe that Politicians know what they're talking about, when only last week they didn't believe a word they were saying. Largely nonsense.
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Theresa May may be shocked to learn that she cannot order Chief Constables to cancel Police leave,
this is a local decision. Police Leave in media speak generally means Rest Days. Chatter on various sites indeed confirm that only Rest Days are being cancelled. Don't believe everything you read in the press.
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Thanks for clarifying that Rob. I suppose for a lot of us the idea of having rest days is something we're not used to.
I tend to book my holidays a long time in advance at the moment (recent Greek trip was more last minute). So it is impossible for me to check with a project the leave/holiday is okay because I'll not be working on it when I go away! Our recent holiday in Tuscany was booked last June/July time. And I got my leave entitlement for next year added to the system so I could book the time off last year.
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I wonder if the troubles of the moment could be the 2011 version of Thatchers era.
Police did well under Thatcher, and goodness knows they made some serious overtime over the miners, printers etc.
Will the proposed cuts in numbers, pay, perks and conditions of the old bill have to be rethought now the current govt might just have twigged they need 'em onside?
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If leave is cancelled and an employer pays for the cost of a holiday that cannot be taken/the cost of repatriating you then this is a taxable benefit.
Just thought you'd like to know.
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If it's a taxable benefit then the company would also pay the tax then, i.e. increase the payment accordingly?
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>>>If leave is cancelled and an employer pays for the cost of a holiday that cannot be taken/the cost of repatriating you then this is a taxable benefit.
Are you sure?
When I go to the office in the week I pay for the diesel.
When I am called in out of hours or at weekends then they pay as it is not my normal contract hours. The company I work for checks everything with HMRC down to hotel rates etc so I would have thought that out of pocket expenses would generally be tax free.
Also, rounding up payments to count for tax, as I understand it is frowned upon, perversely.
Last edited by: zippy on Thu 11 Aug 11 at 10:52
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>>>Are you sure?
Certain, thank you. And yes, the company can gross up the tax, but they might not think to. I've no idea on what grounds you say "Also, rounding up payments to count for tax, as I understand it is frowned upon, perversely."
Paying you cash for a holiday you don't go on is not "wholly exclusively and necessarily" incurred for the purposes of your employment. It isn't an out of pocket expense.
Additionally, zippy, those payments to you are taxable income. See point 3.4 on this link.
www.hmrc.gov.uk/helpsheets/490.pdf
Last edited by: Mapmaker on Thu 11 Aug 11 at 11:39
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>>>Certain, thank you
Thanks!
Unfair though, IMHO, its not in my contract to do it, but emergency cover is provided to help. Company pays as hours are Monday to Friday 9-5 so if called in on a Saturday or Sunday then they have traditionally made a payment to cover traveling as it would not normally be incurred and no extra wages are being paid as we are salaried.
So if a company cancels your holiday for business reasons and you have spent £x thousands on the holiday, you can effectively lose 40% of the value in tax. I can think of several reasons why this could happen as we have contracts that suddenly turn up and they need all hands to the pump!
Definitely not equitable!
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I didn't know it was taxable, but it's not something that is regularly done is it? I know a few people that have had cancelled holiday and then paid out and didn't get taxed. Like zippy said bit naughty taxing it.
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All Police Leave cancelled, in this context, has meant normal days off (called Rest Days), not periods of Annual Leave booked, so people on holidays are free to continue them. Many, many officers have been cancelling their leave to come in and help though and officers with kids have been bunging the kids with relatives etc, so they can be available, there's a real positive spirit...(and it's not just the mercenary ones looking for extra cash). It is though going to cost an extortionate amount of money...officers working 12 hour days instead of 8 and working all their rest days = enormous great hole in budget.
The Police rules and regs re this and similar come from an Act of Parliament, last updated in 2006, so instead of most jobs where you have a contract, you stick to an extensive Act of Parliament.
If you are required to work in a period of Annual Leave (that means 3 days or more) and you have to work your AL day, you get financial compensation..and...the day back. In effect it encourages managers to leave them alone to take their leave. Similarly, if you have to work your RD you get financial compensation (but no day back) if cancelled with less than 5 days notice (and slightly less for -15 days notice). More than 15 days notice = no financial compensation, but you'd get the day back elsewhere.
All the above only applies to PC and Sergeant ranks, everyone else is salaried, so if higher ranks are called in they get nowt, just another day off.
If you were called in from a holiday, you could submit a claim for expenses e.g. extra travel. I have never heard of anyone having a holiday completely cancelled and even if you did, you'd be hard pushed to claim for a whole holiday, especially in this financial climate. I have had, in the past, to re-jig flights around for a Florida holiday, when a last minute court date came up (which the ****** got a sick note for, so it never went ahead anyway)...it cost me about £500 more...(and two extra stops, which put another 7 hours on the journey) which I had to swallow. (My then wife didn't stop bleating on about it, I knew that marriage was doomed...;-)....)
Rough and smooth, doesn't happen that often. Most people for this are accepting of the fact that it's 'all hands to the pumps', there's remarkably little moaning.
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Thanks for finding the time to give us such a comprehensive reply and experiences from the other side of the fence so to speak.
Thanks to all the police everywhere.
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Police Leave - Old Navy
