Police taser driver after minor motoring offence: Motoring Motoring Discussion forum

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Thread Author: SteelSpark	Replies: 106

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Tue 2 Aug 11 18:19

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - SteelSpark

tinyurl.com/3htdwpe

Tue 2 Aug 11 18:27

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - Old Navy

Serves the toerag right, remarkable restraint shown by the policeman.

Tue 2 Aug 11 18:35

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - Zero

Recognise the area, thats Junc 11 over the top of the M25, and the Beemer is coming up from the clockwise (North) M25. St Peters way is off to the left.

Tue 2 Aug 11 18:38

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - Iffy

The defendant must have known he'd clobbered the copper, yet he still had it away on his toes.

A true low-life.

Tue 2 Aug 11 18:42

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - Meldrew

That isn't close to being a minor driving offence! Serious damage to a police car, an officer injured not killed, more by luck than judgement. A tasering and prison sentence of which he may serve only 50% is very light punishment

Tue 2 Aug 11 18:46

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - Old Navy

>> That isn't close to being a minor driving offence! >>

Don't forget this is a SteelSpark thread, he has different standards to most of us.

Tue 2 Aug 11 18:49

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - Focusless

>> Don't forget this is a SteelSpark thread, he has different standards to most of us.

I assumed the title was tongue-in-cheek.

Tue 2 Aug 11 18:48

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - Iffy

...an officer injured not killed...

Legally, the officer wasn't injured.

Or at best, he suffered a common assault, which carries a maximum of six months.

The next one up - assault occasioning actual bodily harm (AOBH) - carries, I think, seven years.

But there's no way that's made out - no actual bodily harm.

The charging lawyer will know dangerous driving carries a maximum of two years, and the defendant is likely to get close to the maximum.

So no point in going for common assault, and as I said, no chance at all of a conviction for AOBH.

Tue 2 Aug 11 18:59

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - Iffy

Just to add, there are moves afoot to increase the maximum for dangerous driving.

This case would seem to illustrate the point.

www.edms.org.uk/2010-11/1969.htm

Tue 2 Aug 11 19:07

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - sherlock47

I would suggest that the offender failed the 'attitude test'. :)

At what range can you reliably hit someone with a Taser?

Tue 2 Aug 11 19:10

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - Old Navy

>> I would suggest that the offender failed the 'attitude test'. :)
>>

Lets hope he failed it a few times in the van on the way to the nick, he must have picked up a few bruises in the impact with the police car. :-)

Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 2 Aug 11 at 19:11

Tue 2 Aug 11 19:13

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - Runfer D'Hills

I'd like a taser app on my BlackBerry. A remote one you could send as a text to customers who don't pay their bills...

"Can I send you a post-dated....aaarrrrgh !"
"No"

:-)

Tue 2 Aug 11 19:24

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - Focusless

>> At what range can you reliably hit someone with a Taser?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taser
"There are a number of cartridges designated by range, with the maximum at 35 feet (10.6 m). Cartridges available to non-law enforcement consumers are limited to 15 feet (4.5 m). The electrodes are pointed to penetrate clothing and barbed to prevent removal once in place. Earlier Taser models had difficulty in penetrating thick clothing, but newer versions (X26, C2) use a "shaped pulse" that increases effectiveness in the presence of barriers."

Who are the 'non-law enforcement consumers'?

Tue 2 Aug 11 19:28

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - SteelSpark

>> That isn't close to being a minor driving offence! Serious damage to a police car,
>> an officer injured not killed, more by luck than judgement. A tasering and prison sentence
>> of which he may serve only 50% is very light punishment

You've got to be kidding me!!!

Tue 2 Aug 11 19:32

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - Old Navy

Pity there isn't a charge of "Attempted death by dangerous driving". Or would that be covered by attempted murder?

Tue 2 Aug 11 19:32

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - Meldrew

In what way am I kidding you - by disagreeing with you? Minor is speeding, construction and use offences, parking, box junctions etc. If you had been the owner of the police BMW would you have reported the damage, to your insurer, as "Minor"?

Last edited by: Meldrew on Tue 2 Aug 11 at 19:33

Tue 2 Aug 11 19:34

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - SteelSpark

Unbelievable...have you suffered a head injury recently?

I don't know if I'm more amazed by you, or by whoever gave you a thumbs up!

Tue 2 Aug 11 19:47

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - Old Navy

I gave the thumbs up, would you call it a minor offence if it was your car that was hit and you were injured?

SS is fast becoming a troll.

Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 2 Aug 11 at 19:48

Tue 2 Aug 11 19:50

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - SteelSpark

Jeez...it's a shame that I didn't give it the full title...

"Police Brutality: Police taser helpless driver after minor motoring offence"

unfortunately, I ran out of characters...but even then I doubt that either of you would have had a clue...

Tue 2 Aug 11 19:53

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - Meldrew

He wasn't helpless - he ran away at speed! By either of you I guess you mean any of you. People are having problems following your strange definitions of minor, helpless etc!

Last edited by: Meldrew on Tue 2 Aug 11 at 19:55

Tue 2 Aug 11 19:59

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - SteelSpark

>> He wasn't helpless - he ran away at speed! By either of you I guess
>> you mean any of you. People are having problems following your strange definitions of minor,
>> helpless etc!

No Meldrew, I'm sure that the vast majority of people got what I meant!

It's your head, and maybe ON's, that this has gone over.

Tue 2 Aug 11 20:09

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - Manatee

Well you've had your fun with this wind up SS.

I'd lock him up for any one of disqualified, uninsured, car theft, ramming the police car while attempting to escape, and trying to kick the copper in the head.

I heartily dislike the idea of tasering annoying drunks for cheek on a Saturday night, but this chap did rather ask for it. If he didn't fancy it, he had the option of putting his hands out for the cuffs.

An additional public tasering would have been a bonus.

Last edited by: Manatee on Tue 2 Aug 11 at 20:10

Tue 2 Aug 11 20:12

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - SteelSpark

>> Well you've had your fun with this wind up SS.

To be fair, it was hardly a wind up, was it?

I didn't use a title that anybody with any common sense could have thought was serious, in an attempt to get a response. That would be a wind up.

Last edited by: SteelSpark on Tue 2 Aug 11 at 20:14

Tue 2 Aug 11 21:08

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - VxFan

>> "Police Brutality: Police taser helpless driver after minor motoring offence"

Replace 'helpless' with 'hopeless' and you'll be nearer the mark.

Tue 2 Aug 11 20:16

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - Armel Coussine

>> SS is fast becoming a troll.

Oh I say ON, that's a bit thick. Thoroughly rational chap, SS - some might think excessively so indeed - but still young enough to have sympathy with a driver who is still bright-eyed and bushy-tailed enough to fancy a health-giving jog after tedious, responsible hours at the wheel.

I feel that elderly curmudgeons like ourselves should stand back a bit and remember what we were like when still young and optimistic. Records as long as your arm for taking and driving away, knocking helmets off on boat race night, being d&d in Berkeley Square, all perfectly harmless.

The police car will be fine after an hour or two in a breaker's yard and will fetch a good price at auction when finally too knackered for police use. As for the young officer - a crazed brute if I ever saw one, one look was enough - surely the huge salary is supposed to cover a couple of bruises and grazes? Diddums then!

No ON: a clear case of police brutality. SS is a lone voice of reason, or was until I lent him my valuable support. Now I suppose he will pose as one of two nutters, the damn ingrate. I'm going off him already.

Tue 2 Aug 11 20:23

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - Old Navy

>> No ON: a clear case of police brutality. SS is a lone voice of reason,
>> or was until I lent him my valuable support. Now I suppose he will pose
>> as one of two nutters, the damn ingrate. I'm going off him already.
>>

Don't tell me you two nutters have human rights, sorry three, I forgot the toerag who nearly killed the copper.

Tue 2 Aug 11 21:43

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - Armel Coussine

>> I forgot the toerag who nearly killed the copper.

Less of the 'toerag' please ON. It is a vulgar expression that I never, ever employ myself. It is mere invective. Smear tactics. You should be ashamed.

And even we toerags have human rights, or so thy claim in Brussels and Hampstead (wherever that may be).

Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Tue 2 Aug 11 at 21:48

Tue 2 Aug 11 20:19

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - SteelSpark

A bit uncalled for ON, in my opinion.

I've never trolled. Just because you and I might disagree on many things doesn't make me a troll.

Because you are too stupid to realise that the title was tongue-in-cheek, doesn't make me a troll either.

Before you call that rude, consider that it is you calling me a troll, and secondly that it is pretty stupid to think that the title was serious.

Look at it from my point of view. I took the time to post it because I thought that you guys might find it interesting, put a bit of humour in the title and then get nothing but abused by the minority of morons on this forum.

Tue 2 Aug 11 20:21

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - Armel Coussine

>> minority of morons on this forum.

MINORITY, SS? Now that really is cheeky.

Tue 2 Aug 11 20:25

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - Manatee

>>Because you are too stupid..

Unparliamentary language sir. You might have thought the bait was obvious but, having cast your bread upon the waters, you can hardly chelp when somebody takes it can you?

Wed 3 Aug 11 14:41

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - Stuartli

>> Look at it from my point of view. I took the time to post it because I thought that you guys might find it interesting, put a bit of humour in the title and then get nothing but abused by the minority of morons on this forum.>>

If that's your style of humour, I'm bleeding glad it's not mine. Have a look at the video again - I've seen it several times now - and note that the officer concerned was extremely fortunate not to be killed or seriously injured.

At the time the police car was hit he was still between the driver's door and the bodywork and was flung into the roadway.

Wed 3 Aug 11 14:58

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - SteelSpark

>> If that's your style of humour, I'm bleeding glad it's not mine. Have a look
>> at the video again - I've seen it several times now - and note that
>> the officer concerned was extremely fortunate not to be killed or seriously injured.

Come off it Stuart.

Do you really think that by putting a tongue-in-cheek title, that I thought the incident itself was funny?

Maybe if I had put the title "Hilarious video, copper almost gets killed! ROFL"

Did the missus over-starch your underpants this week, or something? Perhaps you should stick to re-runs of Terry and June, because the last 30 years of comedy seem to have passed you by.

Wed 3 Aug 11 20:12

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - Stuartli

>> Come off it Stuart.

>> Do you really think that by putting a tongue-in-cheek title, that I thought the incident itself was funny?

Maybe if I had put the title "Hilarious video, copper almost gets killed! ROFL"

Did the missus over-starch your underpants this week, or something? Perhaps you should stick to re-runs of Terry and June, because the last 30 years of comedy seem to have passed you by.>>

You failed to make it clear it was a tongue in cheek title (it needed at least a Smiley) as it was written in purely matter of fact form.

Secondly my wife sadly passed away a year last Christmas, so your comment could be taken as being beyond the pale and very objectionable.

However, I do realise that you are likely be unaware of that fact, although it has been mentioned by me on previous occasions.

Otherwise you'd have been Tasered...:-)

Wed 3 Aug 11 23:07

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - SteelSpark

>> You failed to make it clear it was a tongue in cheek title (it needed
>> at least a Smiley) as it was written in purely matter of fact form.

That kind of misses the point. It doesn't really work as a joke, if you declare it as such.

Perhaps I should just put a disclaimer "ALERT! THIS IS A JOKE" instead, to cater for the lowest common denominator. That way, the joke gets spoiled for everybody but nobody gets confused either.

As I said, just don't worry about this nuanced humour and slap on some 1980s comedy re-runs...look at all those people chasing Benny Hill..HA, HA, HA...

Wed 3 Aug 11 23:29

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - Stuartli

SteelSpark

Sorry about your apparent sad lack of dignity towards your fellow human beings.

Wed 3 Aug 11 23:52

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - SteelSpark

>> Sorry about your apparent sad lack of dignity towards your fellow human beings.

I'm just sorry that I allow my self to get dragged into explaining myself to people that just don't seem to have a clue.

Thu 4 Aug 11 01:22

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - Stuartli

>>I'm just sorry that I allow my self to get dragged into explaining myself to people that just don't seem to have a clue.>>

No, it's you that doesn't have a clue. Nor do you appreciate the fact that you made a scurrilous remark referring to my late wife nor even had the courtesy to apologise after your indiscretion was pointed out.

If you have to explain a "joke", then it isn't a joke.

Thu 4 Aug 11 12:53

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - SteelSpark

>> If you have to explain a "joke", then it isn't a joke.

Right, so the only jokes that are actually jokes are the ones that every single person in the world understands, are they?

What if the majority of people understand them, and a few idiots don't?

As for your wife, the context in which she was mentioned was clearly not a direct reference to her, and so clearly not intended to be offensive towards her.

For what it's worth, I had no idea that she had died, but I do think that, given my reference to her was not a direct reference to her on in any way derogatory towards her, that you have only brought it up to try and embarrass me and/or deflect the argument.

Come to think of it, you didn't even start off saying that it wasn't a joke, rather than it wasn't your taste in humour, so have you changed you mind, just to try to continue to give me a hard time.

Can't you spend your time writing to the BBC or something?

Wed 3 Aug 11 23:36

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - swiss tony

>> >> You failed to make it clear it was a tongue in cheek title (it
>> needed
>> >> at least a Smiley) as it was written in purely matter of fact form.
>>
>> That kind of misses the point. It doesn't really work as a joke, if you
>> declare it as such.

dictionary.reference.com/browse/joke

Joke;
noun, verb, joked, jok·ing.
–noun
1.
something said or done to provoke laughter or cause amusement, as a witticism, a short and amusing anecdote, or a prankish act: He tells very funny jokes. She played a joke on him.
2.
something that is amusing or ridiculous, especially because of being ludicrously inadequate or a sham; a thing, situation, or person laughed at rather than taken seriously; farce: Their pretense of generosity is a joke. An officer with no ability to command is a joke.
3.
a matter that need not be taken very seriously; trifling matter: The loss was no joke.
–verb (used without object)
6.
to speak or act in a playful or merry way: He was always joking with us.
7.
to say something in fun or teasing rather than in earnest; be facetious: He didn't really mean it, he was only joking.
–verb (used with object)
8.
to subject to jokes; make fun of; tease.
9.
to obtain by joking: The comedian joked coins from the audience.

And now added too;
Ten, A true story, often with supporting video, of a human missing death by inches.

SS, were/are you a fan of jackass?

Wed 3 Aug 11 23:51

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - SteelSpark

I really can't believe that a few people can possibly be so stupid as to not understand this.

The title was very clearly tongue-in-cheek, and therefore intended as a bit of humour, as a handful of the many forum members with more than a few brain cells have pointed out.

OK, so some people are stupid, and need very obvious things pointing out to them, fine.

But, then when it is explained to them that it is tongue in cheek, they can't even grasp the idea that you can make a tongue-in-cheek comment about something, without actually considering that the subject matter itself is funny.

Just how can somebody be that stupid?

I suppose there is even a bit of humour in this, albeit a cruel humour, mocking the simple minded.

Thu 4 Aug 11 10:14

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - Tigger

The reason many people didn't get it, is that there are a group of people in society who genuinely seem to think that the police are fair game and deserve all they get.

Your initial post read very like the sort of post one sees from those people.

Thu 4 Aug 11 10:40

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - Iffy

...Your initial post read very like the sort of post one sees from those people...

How so?

The OP was composed of an obviously sarcastic title and a tiny link - nothing else.

There was nothing to read, apart from the story, which speaks for itself.

Thu 4 Aug 11 11:28

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - Focusless

>> The OP was composed of an obviously sarcastic title

Obviously it wasn't obvious to everyone though, and I don't think it should be assumed that those to whom it wasn't obvious are 'stupid' (or worse).

Thu 4 Aug 11 12:58

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - SteelSpark

>> >> The OP was composed of an obviously sarcastic title
>>
>> Obviously it wasn't obvious to everyone though, and I don't think it should be assumed
>> that those to whom it wasn't obvious are 'stupid' (or worse).

Well, I'm sorry, but I do consider that anybody who misinterpreted it, is stupid.

When I suggested an even more unbelievable title, "Police Brutality: Police taser helpless driver after minor motoring offence", some people still didn't have a clue, and started berating me as to how I could consider the driver helpless.

If that isn't stupid, I don't know what is.

Last edited by: SteelSpark on Thu 4 Aug 11 at 12:58

Wed 3 Aug 11 23:53

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - Armel Coussine

>> It doesn't really work as a joke, if you declare it as such.

It's the way we tell'em though SS.

I feel you have been taken to task rather harshly by some here without that much justification. It's absurd for example to huff and puff that what might have been a fatal accident, but wasn't, is something that can't be treated lightly. Of course it can! Laughter is a great relief and an expression of relief.

I agree too with those who say that in the US the miscreant (if really stupid) might have been shot dead. And I disagree that use of the taser was in any way unjustified (but I hope no one ever uses one accidentally on me).

I made a post agreeing with you and calling the (very nice and ordinary looking) young copper 'an obvious crazed brute' and jeering at his cuts and bruises. Yet no one took me to task or gave me a gong of any description. Either readers could tell I was joking despite the absence of smileys and warning notices, or no one reads my posts because they can't be bothered to work out what I am on about. I wonder about that sometimes. But rabbit rabbit, knowImean?

Thu 4 Aug 11 00:08

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - SteelSpark

>> I made a post agreeing with you and calling the (very nice and ordinary looking)
>> young copper 'an obvious crazed brute' and jeering at his cuts and bruises. Yet no
>> one took me to task or gave me a gong of any description. Either readers
>> could tell I was joking despite the absence of smileys and warning notices, or no
>> one reads my posts because they can't be bothered to work out what I am
>> on about.

Or maybe I am just a marked man. It seems there are some who suddenly pop up anywhere I post, seemingly determined to misunderstand me in some way that casts me as the villain of the piece.

Normally I would blame it on jealousy over my good looks, but nobody here has had the pleasure of seeing me in the flesh. :)

I had to put a smiley there just to explain to the brainiacs that I am not a narcissistic maniac, but I'll probably just get accused of suggesting that being a narcissistic maniac is funny!

Thu 4 Aug 11 00:26

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - Armel Coussine

>> Or maybe I am just a marked man.

Nay lad. That way lies madness... It's the way you tell'em I'm afraid.

Don't worry about it. Happens to us all.

Thu 4 Aug 11 00:10

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - CGNorwich

Some sense at last.

Thu 4 Aug 11 07:38

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - Manatee

>> Some sense at last.
>>

Quite. Unfortunately, damage has been done. Repeatedly calling people "stupid" tends to create enduring antipathy.

SS, as I remarked earlier, you can't use irony and then come over all sneery when people don't get it. If you have such an unfortunate misfire, all you can reasonably do is smile wryly (ineffective in this medium) or bluffly apologise for being too opaque - best done at an early stage, but never too late.

Continuing to try and "win the argument" will never work on any level.

Thu 4 Aug 11 08:02

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - Pat

I don't really think there is any argument to win and am amazed that this was misunderstood in the first place.

All that is lacking in the original thread title is facial expression ( as was pointed out to me on Saturday).

Surely we can use our imagination just a little?

Pat

Thu 4 Aug 11 08:11

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - Focusless

>> I don't really think there is any argument to win and am amazed that this
>> was misunderstood in the first place.

I'm not - such misunderstandings are common on the internet. Surely it's better to accept it's happened rather than insult those who misunderstood?

Thu 4 Aug 11 08:31

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - Pat

I would have thought that most of us are aware of how common it is and take a wider look at anything posted to prevent such misunderstandings.

Storm in a teacup, but seen by some as an excuse for a spat!

pat

Thu 4 Aug 11 13:10

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - SteelSpark

>> I'm not - such misunderstandings are common on the internet. Surely it's better to accept
>> it's happened rather than insult those who misunderstood?

Quite, if they hadn't taken the opportunity to be so belligerent. It should be taken into account that some here are carrying over grudges from other threads, were they have been extremely rude in the past, simply because I have had a different opinion to them.

Why don't they just accept that they misunderstood, and stop all this nonsense of posting dictionary definitions of the term joke, and other such pseudo-intellectual nonsense.

Thu 4 Aug 11 13:06

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - SteelSpark

This message has been hidden as many of our users have rated it as offensive.
You may view it by clicking here

>> Continuing to try and "win the argument" will never work on any level.

I'm not trying to win an argument here, there is no argument to win.

No matter how much I have tried to explain the fact, people seem determined to not accept it, and continue to berate me.

My belief is that the vast majority of people got it, as you would expect, and a small minority misunderstood, and gleefully started jumping on me, calling me a troll and the like, even after I have tried to explain that it was a joke.

The fact is that people are stupid if they can't see that it was tongue-in-cheek, and I don't mind calling them stupid, anymore than they mind calling me a troll.

Perhaps they feel stupid, when other have pointed out that it was obviously a joke, and are now trying to somehow convince themselves that it wasn't a joke in the first place.

Quite why I continue to rise to this handful of morons, I don't know, but it is not in the expectation of winning an argument.

Thu 4 Aug 11 13:36

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - R.P.

Right - let's draw a line under this now. Please refrain from personal slanging matches about this. Steel Spark's humour in the OP's subject line was misunderstood by some, please accept that it didn't work for everyone. Please give it a rest now. Continue the debate by all means.

Thu 4 Aug 11 13:39

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - Meldrew

When I pointed out that, in my opinion, the whole event, was serious and not be taken light heartedly, you did not make any effort to explain that your original post was intended as some sort of joke or light hearted banter. You suggested that I was kidding you and when I explained that I wasn't I was accused of having a head injury and being undeserving of my thumbs up. I can do rude as well as the next person but choose to exercise restraint, even in the face of boorish provocation.

Thu 4 Aug 11 13:41

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - R.P.

cough...

Thu 4 Aug 11 13:44

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - Iffy

...cough...

Brings back memories of seeing nurse at junior school.

Thu 4 Aug 11 13:46

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - Zero

Yeah, you need to see a doctor about that PU!

Thu 4 Aug 11 13:50

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - SteelSpark

I did assume that you were perhaps kidding yourself or, if not, that I could make it obvious to you with a couple of jokey comments (I can accept that THEY might have been honestly misread).

To be fair, it was ON (not for the first time), jumping in with his Size 18 and calling me a "troll" and then swiss tony with his ongoing grudge.

OK, I know that RP has asked for calm, so I promise I'll stop now, but just wanted to agree that you weren't rude yourself.

Last edited by: SteelSpark on Thu 4 Aug 11 at 13:50

Thu 4 Aug 11 18:33

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - Meldrew

Thank you.

Thu 4 Aug 11 18:43

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - Old Navy

>> OK, I know that RP has asked for calm, so I promise I'll stop now,
>>

Oh good, Isn't there a saying about protesting too loudly?

Thu 4 Aug 11 20:06

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - SteelSpark

Oh, do pack it in ON, can't you leave it alone.

It was your stupidity and rudeness that kicked this off in the first place.

Why did it take you so long to restart this up again? Did you get lost in your bathroom for a few hours, or something?

Thu 4 Aug 11 20:06

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - swiss tony

>> To be fair, it was ON (not for the first time), jumping in with his
>> Size 18 and calling me a "troll" and then swiss tony with his ongoing grudge.
>>
>> OK, I know that RP has asked for calm, so I promise I'll stop now,
>> but just wanted to agree that you weren't rude yourself.
>>
Just to let you know,I don't hold grudges against anyone. Especially someone I don't know.
I do however, think that some of us, do need to think a bit more before pressing the 'post message' button.
BTW I did realise the OP wasn't serious, but was in very bad taste.

Thu 4 Aug 11 18:20

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - Armel Coussine

>> Quite why I continue

I was wondering that myself SS. Perhaps though you see yourself as a sort of intellectual Jackie Chan of the internet. I have to say, not without sympathy because I do understand the temptation, that threads can get tedious when too repetitive.

I must congratulate you though on the totally black in the face with apoplectic fury red gong you have now collected. I've never even seen one of those, let alone got one. It's theC4P equivalent of a penny black or VC.

Thu 4 Aug 11 20:03

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - SteelSpark

>> I must congratulate you though on the totally black in the face with apoplectic fury
>> red gong you have now collected.

It's gone yellow now! :S

Tue 2 Aug 11 19:46

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - Tigger

>> You've got to be kidding me!!!
>>
Minor?

He pleaded guilty to dangerous driving, failing to stop at the scene of an accident, driving while disqualified, driving without insurance and resisting arrest.

Tue 2 Aug 11 19:49

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - Zero

should have been charged with...., oh wait he was charged - with a taser!

Tue 2 Aug 11 20:04

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - swiss tony

After the 'spat' on the other thread, I sat thinking to myself 'maybe I got SS wrong'.....

I've now decided..

Tue 2 Aug 11 20:08

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - SteelSpark

>> After the 'spat' on the other thread, I sat thinking to myself 'maybe I got
>> SS wrong'.....
>>
>> I've now decided..

Decided what?

Tue 2 Aug 11 20:20

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - SteelSpark

snip. you know why

Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 2 Aug 11 at 21:13

Tue 2 Aug 11 20:28

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - Manatee

SS, you're having an argument with yourself now. Deep breaths...or has your account been hijacked?

Last edited by: Manatee on Tue 2 Aug 11 at 20:29

Tue 2 Aug 11 20:40

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - Armel Coussine

On a more serious note, I am pretty well past my doing-a-runner days, even in the unlikely event that I might need to. But I have a nasty feeling that being tasered might interfere with the correct functioning of my pacemaker.

No doubt police in the US, who have wide experience of tasering obese middle-aged mafiosi, could tell us. I have a feeling that tasering would do me little good, fantasize as I may about being the bloke in Crank II who thrives on that sort of thing...

Tue 2 Aug 11 20:48

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - Manatee

>> I have a nasty feeling that
>> being tasered might interfere with the correct functioning of my pacemaker.

Demand a taser-resistant one. It's not for the NHS to dictate your lifestyle, their job is to equip you as best they can to carry on as you want.

Tue 2 Aug 11 20:47

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - Zero

Its this damned heat you know Carruthers, makes the natives restless, throw some more ice and bitters in this gin will you old boy.

Tue 2 Aug 11 21:29

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - Armel Coussine

>> throw some more ice and bitters in this gin will you old boy.

Oh dear. Wrong way round. You can always tell when someone isn't a pukka sahib.

Not only are 'restless natives' easier to intimidate by someone whose eyes are unfocused, bloodshot and staring wildly in different directions; but someone in that state will hardly notice when they do the decent thing and lynch him.

You modern digital chaps understand the workings of Empire - hardly challenging after all in their broad lines - but you don't appreciate the grace that is required to carry gnarled imperial agenda off properly.

Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Tue 2 Aug 11 at 21:34

Tue 2 Aug 11 20:29

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - Iffy

It's beyond me how anyone can take the thread title seriously.

Tue 2 Aug 11 20:34

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - Lygonos

+1

Who gives some people the vote?

Tue 2 Aug 11 21:17

UK Voting entitlement - Meldrew

Entitlements and who cannot vote listed here

tinyurl.com/32rgn8h

Tue 2 Aug 11 22:51

UK Voting entitlement - Dutchie

I'm not allowed to vote after living in the UK for over fourty years.

Still got a Dutch passport.:)

Tue 2 Aug 11 23:19

UK Voting entitlement - Londoner

>> I'm not allowed to vote after living in the UK for over fourty years.
>>
>> Still got a Dutch passport.:)
>>
Not even in local elections?
Surely you should be entitled to a voice in your local community after having lived here for a qualifying period?

Wed 3 Aug 11 05:40

UK Voting entitlement - sherlock47

>> I'm not allowed to vote after living in the UK for over fourty years.
>>
Maybe 'they' will let you when you pass the spelling (or is it counting?) test ;)

Wed 3 Aug 11 09:15

UK Voting entitlement - Bagpuss

I'm resident in Germany. I'm allowed to vote in local elections, European elections, referendums (there've been 3 here in the last 11 years) and for the City Mayor, but I don't get to vote in the general elections.

Wed 3 Aug 11 13:08

UK Voting entitlement - Snakey

Sorry, but I think the use of the taser was not appropriate here. The taser was 'sold' to the public as an alternative to use of firearms.

So this incident required to use of firearms? Not at all. Admittedly he's a complete scrote but with several plod on scene I think he would have been restrained pretty easily. I'm not on the scrotes side at all but this seems way over the top.

When plod start using tasers like this its a slippery slope. Shoplifter? - zap! Arguing with plod whether or not you were speeding? - zap!

Wed 3 Aug 11 13:11

UK Voting entitlement - Iffy

...but with several plod on scene...

The copper - who had just been knocked near-senseless - chased the defendant and was facing him one-to-one when he used the Taser.

Wed 3 Aug 11 13:18

UK Voting entitlement - Snakey

Still - would he have pulled a firearm on him? Thats what a taser is supposed to replace.

Wed 3 Aug 11 13:22

UK Voting entitlement - Iffy

...Thats what a taser is supposed to replace...

I'm not entirely sure about that.

Doing stories about the Taser when it was introduced, the argument I was given was more along the lines of: "We need something extra, better this than a gun."

Other forces may have justified introduction in different ways.

Wed 3 Aug 11 13:27

UK Voting entitlement - Meldrew

A Taser is seen as having lower lethal potential than a firearm.

Tasers were introduced as non-lethal weapons to be used by police to subdue fleeing, belligerent, or potentially dangerous subjects, often when what they consider to be a more lethal weapon (such as a firearm) would have otherwise been used.

Wed 3 Aug 11 13:52

UK Voting entitlement - Zero

Lets add a bit evenness to this thread.

A: the scroat did not know the copper was on the road, he was hidden on the other side of the cop car.

b: How many people here would block the exit of a speeding twoccer, and then get out of the car into the danger zone? I think the coppers risk assessment skills were pretty lacking here.

c: Could there be an element of red mist associated with the choice to Taser the scroat?

Not condoning or excusing the perp in any way, merely an assessment based on the details as presented in that news item.

Last edited by: Zero on Wed 3 Aug 11 at 13:53

Wed 3 Aug 11 15:21

UK Voting entitlement - Woodster

Iffy - what do you mean: 'legally he wasn't injured'?? So what's the 'legal' definition of injury?

Wed 3 Aug 11 16:01

UK Voting entitlement - Iffy

...So what's the legal definition of injury...

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, from what we can see and from what the officer says, there's no injury.

It matters not what occupation he does, any jury shown a video of a someone being knocked down, but then jumping to their feet and legging it into the distance, is unlikely to be persuaded they have suffered actual bodily harm.

That leaves common assault, which as you know need not be an actual physical injury, but the maximum is only six months.

No point in charging that, because the CPS lawyer knows the guy is looking at the near maximum for the dangerous driving.

Wed 3 Aug 11 16:42

UK Voting entitlement - Woodster

I understand all that, but you said that legally he wasn't injured. I don't think there is a legal definition of injury but an assault takes place when a person fears 'immediate and unlawful personal violence'. No physical battery need take place to prove assault. The level of injury itself will help determine the charge and care must be taken here not to confuse statute law with the modern CPS charging standards which are not themselves law. I don't agree that having the ability to run would dissuade a jury from finding an assault took place, with or without injury. If he meant to use his car as a weapon against the officer(s) then I think proving assault would be relatively easy and certainly not a new method of assault for the courts to consider. Having photographs of cuts/scrapes/bruises would add evidence. Tis merely opinion that the jury wouldn't convict.

Wed 3 Aug 11 16:47

UK Voting entitlement - SteelSpark

>> The level of injury itself will help determine the charge and care must be taken
>> here not to confuse statute law with the modern CPS charging standards which are not
>> themselves law. I don't agree that having the ability to run would dissuade a jury
>> from finding an assault took place, with or without injury.

I don't think iffy is saying that a lack of injury would prevent a jury from finding that an assault took place, just not a finding of ABH.

He said that a lack of injury still leaves common assault, but that the CPS wouldn't bother with that, when there is a the charge of dangerous driving instead.

Wed 3 Aug 11 16:55

UK Voting entitlement - Zero

>
>> If he meant to use
>> his car as a weapon against the officer(s)

I could quite easily argue that he didnt. As I said the officer could not be seen from the other side of the car. The fact he tried to swerve round the car could in itself be argued that he tried to avoid deliberately injuring anyone still inside. I would argue the officer put himself in harms way. Lets be honest, it was a poorly executed stop.

Last edited by: Zero on Wed 3 Aug 11 at 16:55

Wed 3 Aug 11 16:58

UK Voting entitlement - rtj70

>> Lets be honest, it was a poorly executed stop.

They didn't do a very good job of blocking the roundabout. A bit too much space to block with just one car.

Now if the officer had a real gun he could have shot the driver ;-) That's what might have happened in the United States.

Wed 3 Aug 11 17:56

UK Voting entitlement - Woodster

Iffy said:

It matters not what occupation he does, any jury shown a video of a someone being knocked down, but then jumping to their feet and legging it into the distance, is unlikely to be persuaded they have suffered actual bodily harm.

Simply show the bruises/cuts - ABH proven assuming that assault itself is accepted. The fact that someone can run doesn't mean a jury wouldn't find an ABH. Millions of ABH's would have been lost had that been the case. Friday night assaults across the nation have many a victim capable of running away.

Zero -I said if he used his car as a weapon. This is where interviewing comes in. Intent is everything. 'If' being the operative word. Your argument means nothing, what can be proven does. Much of that proof can come from the interview. Or not, as the case may be.

Wed 3 Aug 11 22:42

UK Voting entitlement - Fullchat

Injuries can be masked by the release of adrenalin. Seen it happen. Knackered knee but managed to run, detain and subdue before collapsing.

As regards the Taser he did say that the bad guy aka Scroat had climbed a fence and was kicking him.

Was he considering deploying Stinger and that's why he got out of the car??? Agreed from the footage not apparantly the best place to be.

Wed 3 Aug 11 22:51

UK Voting entitlement - swiss tony

>> Injuries can be masked by the release of adrenalin.

So true. years ago I had a motorcycle accident.
went over to the machine (weighed 440lb dry), that was lying in the road, got it back on its wheels, pushed it 100yards to a safe spot, put it on its centre stand.

Then realised i was hurt..
Injury's includes my right wrist, broken in 2 places.
After a few minutes my wrist went limp. (still suffer big time with it now).

Thu 4 Aug 11 08:25

UK Voting entitlement - Cliff Pope

I think Zero's assessment is pretty fair.
It's obviously difficult to make rapid assessments of the best course of action in rapidly moving circumstances like these, so I'm not judging the policeman's actions. But presumably the point of putting a police car in the path of a fleeing criminal is to act as a physical barrier, and a more substantial one than a lone cop standing in the middle of the road making the approved STOP gesture.
So if you know your car is about to be ploughed into at speed, are you safer inside it or standing by the door? And does getting out of the car before impact make the barrier any more effective?

Thu 4 Aug 11 09:13

UK Voting entitlement - Iffy

...are you safer inside it or standing by the door?...

As has been mentioned, there's every chance the copper was going to deploy the Stinger spikey carpet device.

To do that, he needs to get out of the car, retrieve the Stinger from wherever it's stashed, and throw it across the road.

Seems to me he came from a different direction than the car, and certainly arrived at the roundabout first.

There will have been radio communication, maybe he thought he had a few more seconds than he did before the other car arrived.

Last edited by: Iffy on Thu 4 Aug 11 at 09:14

Thu 4 Aug 11 09:31

UK Voting entitlement - Zero

As I say I know the roundabout well Its signal controlled and over the M25 J11. The northbound off slip is to your left in the clip and is split into two lanes at the top, one to go first left down St Peters lane and one to go other points right on the roundabout. Two cop cars on the roundabout (one filming and half covering the "right turn option" and the other (Surrey traffic so might have had stinger on board) joins the scene late and goes to cover the other lane. The copper knew he was coming soon, it looks like he signals an unseen car to stop, (which it might have done) and then you can see him hesitate half in and half out the car, as he sees the scroat haring up the slip (its a long one) I cant see what their plan is right away, so its safe to assume they were making it up on the spot.

Between the pair of them (I think the other was one of Surrey unmarked cars) they managed to make a hash of it. Not suprised, the Surrey old bill is not used to or experienced in such matters, being a bit of a provincial force. No used to dealing with lo-life you see, but they are very good on Fraud cases!

Last edited by: Zero on Thu 4 Aug 11 at 09:32

Thu 4 Aug 11 11:11

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - Mapmaker

One feels that it serves the scroat right. But:

1. If you take away the police insignia, it was a little car accident arising from a fool parking in a silly place.

2. And then getting out of his car on a motorway roundabout. That's just asking for it.

[I do appreciate he was a policeman doing his job, and of course I laud him for that.]

3. Was using a taser - which can kill - really proportionate force for the following crimes? I'm not sure it was but I think it was a great result!

He pleaded guilty at an earlier hearing to dangerous driving, failing to stop at the scene of an accident, driving while disqualified, driving without insurance and resisting arrest.

Last edited by: Mapmaker on Thu 4 Aug 11 at 11:12

Thu 4 Aug 11 11:17

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - Mapmaker

Wikipedia states "Following the completion of the trial, the Home Secretary agreed on 24 November 2008 to allow chief police officers of all forces in England and Wales, from 1 December 2008, to extend Taser use to specially-trained units in accordance with current Association of Chief Police Officers policy and guidance, which states that Taser can be used only where officers would be facing violence or threats of violence of such severity that they would need to use force to protect the public, themselves, and/or the subject(s)."

If that's true then a suspect who is running away scarcely counts as an officer facing violence/threat of violence.

Thu 4 Aug 11 11:31

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - R.P.

"and resisting arrest"

So unless he did that with a feather duster or a balloon on a stick, the Taser's use was probably justified at some point in the confrontation which happened off camera...

Thu 4 Aug 11 11:59

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - Iffy

...So unless he did that with a feather duster or a balloon on a stick...

That must be right.

Any officer dealing with a suspect who is resisting arrest must be 'facing violence', even if there was no violence.

So the Taser was used in accordance with the guidelines.

Good result all round: copper arrests suspect with no harm done to either.

Thu 4 Aug 11 12:03

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - Mapmaker

Good.

Thu 4 Aug 11 20:13

Police taser driver after minor motoring offence - R.P.

Oh well, we asked nicely. Locked.

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