The 'find another hack' saga continues.
We went to the Dordogne Jaguar/Land Rover dealer yesterday to look at a base model 2006 X-type 2.2 diesel estate. low kilometres, one owner, way above top book price (even for France).
I drove it and it was fine, apart from the lunatic 6-speed gearbox. You DO NOT need six gears with a diesel engine like that...
Anyway, I noticed it had quite bad scuffing in both front door shuts and on the top of the bumper below the tailgate. I asked the salesman if they could be sorted out and he said 'non'.
When I asked why not he said 'well, it is five years old'. He wouldn't come an euro off the asking price either.
I tried to point out that in the UK things like that would be sorted before the car even reached the forecourt, but what's the point? And, as usual in France, it appeared to have no noticeable service history.
I could buy anything in his darned showroom but I choose to hack around with something a few years down the road. But I'm getting fed up with this - it looks as though it's back to the UK and carry on with RHD yet again.
It's almost enough to make me want to buy another Alfa...
Rant over (for now).
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Ouch.
Do you have to pay an import duties on a uk car?
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No VAT if it's been paid in the UK but the French are still slapping a sliding scale penalty of up to 2,600 euros (AFAIK) on cars up to ten years old that exceed a scale of emissions standards.
The good news is that anything over ten years old gets 50 per cent discount when re-registered.
The hunt is still on...
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>> I drove it and it was fine, apart from the lunatic 6-speed gearbox. You DO
>> NOT need six gears with a diesel engine like that...
I agree, but it all depends on the specific gearing of the car.
If the ratios are spread the same as a normal 5 speed up to and including 5th (please bring back overdrive), then that would be fine, 6th being much higher would only ever be used for high speed cruising, too high for anything else.
It's when 6th gives the same road speed per revs as the equivalent 5 speed model that lunacy steps in.
Problem is it has to pass the sporty pretensions of the road testers, or it soon gets classed as an old mans car like the Rover 75, which is the kiss of death once the likes of Clarkson and the two stooges join in....''couldn't go up Telegraph Hill in 6th...useless junk''
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I know when I was looking at 2nd hand cars here (Sweden) it was much the same thing regarding condition. Lots of scuffs, rust, and general dings. They don't have chips away or anything like that here, they just wash 'em and stick 'em up for sale. The 2nd hand prices are crazy, and the warranties non-existant after the (in many cases) 2 year manufacturers warranty runs out.
A few places I asked about a decent warranty, discounts etc, but got the usual Swedish blank look.
I brought my 10 year old Skoda with severe rust on every panel from a Merc dealers forecourt for £500.
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Tongue ever so slightly in cheek but let's pause a minute...
If you bought a second hand bicycle and it had a scratch or two, would that put you off?
If you bought a "used" house which need new carpets and a bit of paint would that bother you if you really wanted it?
Or a second hand fridge, washing machine, telly, anything like that which had a small ding in it?
A coat from a charity shop which would be transformed with a needle and thread?
But a car....oh dear no that must be perfect in every way, astonishingly cheap and have a warranty....
It's only because the used car market has been so competitive in this country that we have come to expect such things. We are jolly lucky in some ways.
Last edited by: Humph D'Bout on Sat 30 Jul 11 at 18:13
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>> A coat from a charity shop which would be transformed with a needle and thread?
Yeah, those leather patches one the elbow suit you Humph, very mock.. err Shabby?
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>> But a car....oh dear no that must be perfect in every way, astonishingly cheap and
>> have a warranty....
>>
Surely a car on the forecourt of a prestige marque ..and at a prestige marque's price... ought to be half tidy?
Fair enough if it had been through the auction and was now on the forecourt of Monsieur Daley.
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Granted, and indeed the British part of me wholeheartedly agrees. We just need to understand that not all countries have quite adopted the consumer is King theory quite so comprehensively. Try taking a shirt back to an Italian retailer just because you have decided you don't really want it after all. You musta be blinkina jokin' matey! Izza youra shirt now, arrivederci Ricardo....!
:-)
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>> Anyway, I noticed it had quite bad scuffing in both front door shuts and on
>> the top of the bumper below the tailgate. I asked the salesman if they could
>> be sorted out and he said 'non'.
I thought the French treated their cars with disdain anyway? A few bumps and scratched being de rigueur
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The salesman said non? The trouble with the French is they don't speak English.
They should get in line pronto and stop messing about with cleaning ladys (allegedly)
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>>I thought the French treated their cars with disdain anyway? A few bumps and scratched being de rigueur <<
Indeed they are - but I'm not French and the sloppy attitude doesn't cut it with me. If they aren't proud of what they are selling they aren't worth dealing with.
Incidentally, an acquaintance told me he went to the same dealership back along in an attempt to buy a two-year-old Discovery. When they found out his LHD TD5 Disco was first registered in Belgium they wouldn't do a part-ex. Until recently Belgium was significantly cheaper to buy from than France so many French people imported motors over the border - so presumably it was a fit of pique on the part of the dealer.
I think maybe it's all because the French have a higher regard for Jaguar, and Land Rover for that matter, than the average Brit so the dealers and salespeople tend to have a bit of the 'Audi' about them - arrogance that a spell on the dole might knock out of them.
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How's about a trip to Germany to buy something LHD?
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>> 6-speed gearbox. You DO NOT need six gears with a diesel engine like that...
As has been alluded to already, the gear ratios are the same as a standard 5-speed plus a long-legged 6th gear overdrive, i.e. 4th gear is still a 1:1 ratio. 6th on my Mondeo really does make it more relaxed on the motorway.
The X-Type is just a Mondeo in a party frock anyway ;)
Last edited by: Dave_TDCi on Mon 1 Aug 11 at 12:52
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Is certainly is Dave:)
Pat
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>>
>> As has been alluded to already, the gear ratios are the same as a standard
>> 5-speed plus a long-legged 6th gear overdrive, i.e. 4th gear is still a 1:1 ratio.
>> 6th on my Mondeo really does make it more relaxed on the motorway.
>>
I'm not sure, my 2002 Ghia X was 5 speed (the 6 speed was introduced later knocking 2g/km of the CO2), 5th gear was relaxed enough and not too high so as to require a change down a 50mph or less. I have driven a 6 speed and while the 6th gear is not stupidly high it does mean more gear changing, for instance when going through 50mph roadworks on the motorway etc. I reckon the 5 speed's 5th is between the 6 speed's 5th and 6th.
Re the X-Type the 2.0ltr diesel had a 5 speed box though a different unit to the Mondeo III, the 2.2 had the same 6 speed box as the Mondeo III.
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Just a little example here of the sort of thing I find hard to put up with, from a main dealer forecourt in Limoges - I know it's not a huge contrast but it looked more obvious from the spot I couldn't use to take the pic because it was outside the workshop manager's office.
This car is priced at many thousands of euros...
www.flickr.com/photos/64660965@N03/?saved=1
Last edited by: Mike Hannon on Mon 1 Aug 11 at 15:49
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A couple of years ago I was toying with the idea of an X-Type Jag, when I spotted a ad on autotrader for a very low mileage example at the local Jaguar main dealer (UK, not France).
I went over to take a look round it, and the salesman accompanied me on an inspection. The car was polished up to gleaming standards, and was on the forecourt with the price in the window, fully prepared for sale, including workshop inspection, according to the salesman.
I was going to take a test drive, but first I had a scout around the car, and quickly checked the condition of the tyres. Both front tyres were not just bald, but worn through to the canvas on the insides.
I told him I was absolutely not going to buy a car from a dealer who was prepared to send a customer out on a test drive in a car in such a dangerous condition, and who was either a liar or who worked with a workshop team so incompetent they didn't even notice that simple safety issue. He tried to talk me round with "come back tomorrow and the tyres will be sorted". No fear. Charlatan.
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Without wishing (particularly) to harp on about this, these two links to private owner adverts in the UK and France are a good illustration of what anyone in my position trying to buy a decent used car is up against.
Even without the language I don't have to tell you which is which.
www.pistonheads.com/SALES/3062908.htm
www.leboncoin.fr/voitures/218895320.htm?ca=14_s
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I take your point about car condition when presented for sale Mike.
However the UK car buying public seem overrawed by polish and shiny black plastic interiors, smelling of leather of course, whilst totally ignoring the important stuff like previous use or misuse, maintenance and care.
Polished turds.
The Pug 607 with the dodgy door takes some beating though i'll grant you.
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D'you think the 147's a turd then GB? After the X-type last week and thinking something smaller might be good I suddenly thought of them. That 1.9 diesel must make them pretty lively.
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>> D'you think the 147's a turd then GB?
I prefer the 159 estate thingy, handsome as can be but the car feels more substantial, 6 pot Diesel too if you fancy.
I'm not suggesting the 147 you linked to is a turd, it's quite possibly an excellent car.
It's just that in the UK image has become the most important thing, whilst the more important bits are maybe polished out of punter's minds.
For ludicrous taken to extremes watch obsessed sales staff rearranging their forecourts, juggling the stock about and then minutely direct each other parking them in regimented lines down to the very millimetre.
Nothing wrong with a neat forecourt but it's taken to ridiculous lengths, often with the cars so tightly packed you can't get between them.
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Tue 2 Aug 11 at 13:01
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Sales displays are an art and a science. For an example of the science check out the use of "planograms"
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I see that "Conduite par une femme" is a perceived advantage.
Which bit translates as "Drives superb. First to see will buy. No timewasters."?
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'no timewasters' is usually 'pas serieux abstenir'. Usually seen in ads for heaps when the price is even more astronomical than usual.
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Is there any merit in buying a LHD car in the UK?
There are a handful of dealers who specialise in left-hookers.
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Thanks, I'm looking into that one.
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Is it just me? - Skoda
