Well, it's breakdown time.
Pootling along a B road this morning - bang, battery light, "ALTERNATOR WORKSHOP" message on screen. Bah.
Lift bonnet, yep. Alternator belt has come off. Tchah.
RAC diagnose broken alternator pulley and we drive the car on to my local indie mechanic.
Now, if it's just the pulley that's gone, can I assume the alternator is still OK, or will that need replacing also? Car is a 2003 1.9TDi PD (VW engined) Galaxy.
Either way I'm looking at a few hundred I suppose.
The RAC's replacement car has just rocked up from Europcar - a Mk6 Golf TDi, 60 plate. That'll do for a few days. So off to work I go. Again.
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The alternator pulley can be replaced separately. It had not long been done on our Golf when we bought it after the seller described a very similar failure to the one you experienced.
The pulley is about £40, and isn't a big job to fit if you have the special socket which I would imagine most indies have.
I would be surprised if it came to much more than £100 with the labour, assuming of course there isn't a separate problem with the alternator.
Last edited by: DP on Tue 26 Jul 11 at 11:32
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If the bearings are shot too after (or before?) that failure, you can get repair kits on eBay, they're less than £20 but if you're not DIYing it (why not?! ;-p ) probs be cheaper to get an exchange alternator.
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Guess what? Garage reckons the alternator looks shot too (surprise).
Suppose I could be DIYing this one, but just didn't fancy it. I'm still a real novice.
Looking in on Galaxy/Sharan forums it seems to be a regular failure, and I suppose if the alternator get replaced it's good for another 100k/8 years or so (this one's failed at 85k, 8 years).
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...Guess what? Garage reckons the alternator looks shot too (surprise)...
If the alternator bearing failed, it would likely throw the belt, so the garage may not be ripping you off.
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Pretty sure that's what happened Iffy, I've used this garage before and they've had the opportunity to rip me off and haven't. Will have a look at the old one though just to be sure.
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At least there's no further damage.
If the fanbelt failed on early petrol Golfs, it often took the cambelt with it, which in turn led to bent valves.
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So I've had the work done, and they charged me 1.75 hours labour.
Which seemed fair enough, until I noticed the time on my (analogue) dashboard clock. It was only 35 minutes slow. Which means they had the battery disconnected for only 35 minutes.
I presume that indicates that the job was finished after 35 minutes, otherwise they wouldn't have reconnected the battery.
Am I being unfair to be a bit suspicious of having been charged too much labour? I can't imagine it's a two man job.
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The "book" price is 1.75 hours, i.e. that's what is calculated as a fair rate for the job, including training the mechanic, an allowance for buying his tools etc.
Some 1.75 hour jobs will take all day, others half an hour. I'd worry more if it had taken them all day, in case it had been stubborn and needed bodging.
Last edited by: Dave_TDCi on Mon 1 Aug 11 at 14:54
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Are you happy with the job done? and the price paid?
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Well, I am happy with the job done, and I had a concern about the price paid.
But Dave has explained that one away quite adequately above, so yes, I'm happy with the price paid, now. I hadn't considered that it was an 'off the shelf' labour charge.
Thanks for your help, Dave, and your 'concern', Zero. ;-)
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It's fairer to know how long it ought to take and therefore how much it will be. If they ran into problems and it took twice as long as it ought to, would/should you have to pay the extra. Now that wouldn't be fair.
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>> It's fairer to know how long it ought to take and therefore how much it
>> will be. If they ran into problems and it took twice as long as it
>> ought to, would/should you have to pay the extra. Now that wouldn't be fair.
Rubbish. If you take an eight year old car to the garage and the work takes much longer than book because all the bolts on your car are rusted up, then of course it's fair that you pay more.
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I wouldn't expect a main dealer to offer book prices on such old cars.
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Each garage will set its own policy in this regard.
Some will use the book time as a basis. Then, if the job hits an identifiable snag, for example a fastener rusted up solid, then, the extra time will be booked on a time taken basis.
Some garages will simply charge on a time taken basis for all work.
Usually, book times are used by larger garages and main dealers. The mechanics are paid for the time they book rather than how long the job takes. This encourages the mechanics to work quickly and efficiently, and can mean they get paid for far more hours than they actually work. The advantage to the garage of running a "bonus" system is that the mechanics do not need policing to maintain efficiency - they motivate themselves. Of course, the customer isn't well looked after, as the mechanics are also motivated to cut corners.
In terms of the time taken versus the time the battery was disconnected, I imagine that the there is some dismantling required before the mechanic reaches the alternator.
As a guess;
The mechanic gets instructions and the keys, finds the car, and gets it on the ramp - 10 minutes?
The mechanic strips down the panels / cowlings / serpentine belt to get to the alternator - 25 minutes?
The mechanic protects the vehicle's electronic systems, disconnects the battery, and removes the alternator from the car - 15 minutes?
The mechanic draws the pulley from stores, and replaces the pulley - 10 minutes
Replacing alternator, reconnect battery - 5 minutes
Replacing belts, covers, etc - 20 minutes
Test and check alternator is now working correctly and quietly - sign off job, park up, return keys, etc 10 minutes.
I can easily see that the time listed and the amount of time the battery was off are both reasonable.
>>I presume that indicates that the job was finished after 35 minutes...
Here's the fundamental error. The battery only needs to be off for part of the job.
Last edited by: Number_Cruncher on Mon 1 Aug 11 at 16:01
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Thanks, N_C. The alternator in the Galaxy's engine bay is easily accessible from above, it's at the top of the engine bay on the left as you look at it. There's only one "shield" of any kind to snag on, just behind it. I reckon the unit can be out within 10 minutes, easy. May be wrong, but that's how it looks to an amateur eye.
>>Here's the fundamental error. The battery only needs to be off for part of the job.
I'd assumed it was the first thing they'd do. It's the first thing I'd do, but I'm an amateur as is obvious.
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Does the clock stop when the battery's disconnected?
I doubt if it's one of those that used to be wound by a solenoid, but could there be a capacitor in the electrics that holds enough charge to power a low level device such as a clock for a while?
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>> Does the clock stop when the battery's disconnected?
Yes, immediately. I've seen it happen myself.
Re-reading N_C's contribution, there's more time to strip out from his estimate, as they did a straight alternator swap. There was no time needed to remove the pulley and fit a new one as it was just old alternator out, new one in. And in an easily accessible position. Which is odd for this car as the engine bay is very crowded and hard to work in. You should have seen the bother I had replacing the pollen filter when I serviced it, it was horrific.
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Alternators tend to arrive without a pulley fitted - so, there is some time to spend fitting a pulley.
If the alternator is at the top of the engine, can you get to all of the fixing bolts?, and can yoiu get to the belt tensioner? Can you get to all the pulleys with your hands to make sure the belt is correctly routed after it has been slack?
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I'll take a picture for you. Will post it up tomorrow.
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None of you have asked the usual journalist's question, which is critical to this story.
How much?
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>> None of you have asked the usual journalist's question, which is critical to this story.
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>> How much?
He wont be on till he gets back to work tomorrow, so lets guess.
£250 fitted if it was an exchange one, £350 if it wasnt.
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...so let's guess...
Good idea.
The OP is realistic enough when it comes to these things, and he mentions 'concerns' about the price.
So I'm going a little higher than Zero.
A new alternator, belt, and approaching two hours labour in the south east could easily come close to £500.
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...£501...
Clever, could be the winning bid.
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Interestingly the pulley is not available from Ford as a seperate item,but is from VW.All modern alternators new or reman are fitted with a new pulley as they seem to be regularly problematic.I have just replaced an alternator on a Renault scene-it where the pulley had self-destructed and wrecked the end of the rotor shaft.You will need to go back to the Lucas 17 acr to buy a unit sans pulley,as fitted to the good old B/leyland models.Thats what I call "nuts and bolts" technology.
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...back to the Lucas 17 acr to buy a unit sans pulley,as fitted to the good old B/leyland models...
B90 exchange units - those were the days.
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".back to the Lucas 17 acr to buy a unit sans pulley,as fitted to the good old B/leyland models...
B90 exchange units - those were the days"
Plus you could always upgrade it to an 18ACR which could push out a dizzy 43amps and would power your Smiths aftermarket stick-on HRW and Ring spot lamps !
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Sorry,had to be Lucas Square 8s with chrome backs and of course the "L" shape mounting brackets made from scrap steel from the Titanic.!!!
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>>the "L" shape mounting brackets made from scrap steel from the Titanic.!!!
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Crap steel that Titanic stuff, it shatters when you hit it with an iceberg.
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>> ...£501...
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>> Clever, could be the winning bid.
£314 all in. Labour at my local indie is £55 per hour (central Reading), the part was a Bosch alternator, brand new.
Happy to recommend the place really, www.readingmot.co.uk.
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...£314 all in. Labour at my local indie is £55 per hour...
Sounds more than fair, mostly due to the reasonable labour rate.
I expect some of the glass palaces around your way charge twice as much.
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And the winner is ...... ZERO!
To be fair, I checked the cost of Alternators on GSF, and factored in labour at 60 squids an hour.
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>> I expect some of the glass palaces around your way charge twice as much.
>>
Indeed they do.
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When I bought the oil for my sucker oil change on the CC3, I asked the Ford dealer - Gill of Bedale, North Yorkshire - for a quote to change it.
A whopping £140, but that included the filter.
That part of North Yorkshire is very prosperous, and Gill also sell Mercedes and Jeep.
It's all very pleasant in there - they always call me Mr Iffy - and there is a choice of blends of coffee in the reception area.
Still a lot of money for an oil and filter change.
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Ford Galaxy - Alternator pulley gone - DP
