OK. Away again and having ordered a seven seat Mazda5 was given a minibus! A couple of days later was rung and asked if I would like to change - Yes please!
Expecting a Mazda, I was given an S-Max. Great - an opportunity to get SWMBO behind the wheel, as she had said she did not want me to have one. So she got behind the wheel as did I and we reckon it drives just as well as the Outback of blessed memory. Very good driving position, excellent ride, smooth petrol engine with a decent six speed auto box. Handling very good. The only thing I can say is that compared to permanent 4x4 of the Subaru there is a hint of torque steer at take off into sharp turns.
Why do people drive anything else?
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...Why do people drive anything else?...
It's a Ford.
Plenty of ignorant people about who have never even sat in one, yet refuse to believe it could drive like it does.
And, of course, it's a Ford.
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>> Why do people drive anything else?
because we dont need 7 seats? And we would like a spare wheel?
Last edited by: Zero on Sat 3 Apr 10 at 18:58
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Spare wheels are for wusses.
Haven't needed one for as long as I can remember, certainly 10 years, which will be about 130,000 miles.
And you can always leave some of the seats at home.
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tell you what - I will carry the wheel and seats I need with me thanks.
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>> And you can always leave some of the seats at home.
>>
Why not fold them into the floor ? It's not a Galaxy.
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It looks like Espada should have got the S-MAX test drive a few suggested before plumping for the XC90.
I don't need 7 seats and this would be too big for what I need. But the previous model Mondeo I had was nice enough to drive. I gather the latest one is even better.
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Most people get there eventually. Some are just fortunate enough to see the light early in their driving life. An S-Max is a close cousin of........go on you know it.......
:-)
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>> An S-Max is a close cousin of........go on you know it.......
>>
>> :-)
>>
A Volvo S80 ? See, I knew you were a saloon man in disguise :)
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"Why do people drive anything else?"
I refuse to pay the road tax on a new one. I am starting to think about what I'm going to do in a few years time when our cars need replacing under this regime...
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But the S-MAX is based on the same platform as both the current Galaxy and Mondeo IV.
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Exactly, that's why it's excellent.
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The beauty of the S-Max is the ease of access and driving position. A little higher than the Mondeo so far better in that regard. No doubt the Mondeo is a better car to drive because it is lower. I wonder why manufacturers don't make slightly higher saloons that are much easier to access? (E.g. Rolls Royce?).
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I very nearly bought one, but the lack of spare was the only reason that stopped me. Like Zero (and many others) I refuse to drive a car (which I often do for long journies through the night) with no spare wheel.
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XC90 has no spare either.
Anyway I now haver permission from Espadrille to swap XC90 for S-Max. Had my father drive the car today. His regular mount is my old Forester XT and even he thought the S-max an excellent drive.
So, on my return home I will be hitting the Ford dealers in Manchester.....
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S-Max has a reputation for lots of minor fault, poor MPG and eating tyres.
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We have had one for nearly a year; no minor faults at all, MPG great (2.0 TDCi) - front tyres just changed now on 15k miles. Wouldn't swap it at all.
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>>>>> S-Max has a reputation for lots of minor fault
Mine had no faults in 55,000 miles
>>>>>poor MPG and
Mine averaged over 44MPG - quite good for a big car I thought
>>>>>eating tyres.
Have to agree with that one though, mostly motorway driving and the fronts would last 12/14k (and they were expensive 18" tyres).
Overall a great car for a family and in my opinion unbeatable for the price (but leasing costs are quite expensive...)
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I was going to ask about leasing costs. Where will the best place to go be for leasing?
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the other site has lots of good links to car leasing sites.
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Alas I've have to give Fords a wide berth now as they give me backache. Seems to be a Ford trait (hard seats)
Shame really as the Focus was the best driving car I've owned.
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same here. i had to sell a c-max because the seats were to hard.
great drive though and pretty fast in 2.0 tdci form
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>>I was going to ask about leasing costs. Where will the best place to go be for leasing?
Definitely more than one place would be my advice. I'm considering a Skoda and vsisted 2 main dealers and the monthly rate varied by 36% for the same car on the same 3+35, 20k pa deal. If it is a standard car with no little or no extras there's a chinese lady somewhere who was once on Dragons Den who does very good rates. Shop and shop and shop around.
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ARGHHHHHHHHHHH
He means LING
(holds up hands in the shape of a cross - Get thee away from me)
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I think I have done a deal!
My requirements are quite precise - a reasonably new S-Max with automatic, touch screen DVD Sat Nav and as high a spec as possible for a little money as possible. After a great deal of surfing autotrader.co.uk and comparing specs I found that Motors Coalville had handful of cars that were less than one year old with very high specs of the type that a dealer manager might order for himself.
Having got a shock at the value of the Volvo offered by other dealers, these people gave me a sensible p/x against a 2009/09 S-Max Titanium TDCi with almost every extra thrown at it except for the DVD player with screens in the headrests. The seats even cool you down.
I did toy with getting the facelift S-Max as a new car with the petrol LPT engine and DSG type gearbox, but I was offered no discount off the £31,500 list price of the only two being built in the next few months to a spec I fancied. The car I have reserved is £9,000 cheaper.
So hopefully next Friday I will swap over.
As you know I was very taken by the S-Max I rented, but that was a 2.0 petrol auto. Does anyone know how the car drives with the TDCI 140bhp and 6-speed autobox? There are none near here for me to test drive.
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...I rented was a 2.0 petrol auto. Does anyone know how the car drives with the TDCI 140bhp and 6-speed autobox...
In CC3 terms the 2.0 petrol is reckoned to lack sufficient grunt to pull the car along, so the 2.0 diesel is the one to have.
This suggests you will be pleased with the outright performance of your new car.
Can't help as regards the drive, although I think the petrol is an old-fashioned torque converter auto and the diesel is an automated manual, possibly with two clutches, although you'll not see any of that.
Hope the car works out this time, at least you've had a good go in something similar.
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The one I am buying is also a TC type box and none the worse for that in my opinion.
We drove to London last night and home today to see the MiL. My wife who has always liked the Volvo as a passenger realised my frustration with it when we were trying to plot a route on the Sat Nav to a place that could only be found by reference to a full post code. We had no other address details. She discovered the shortcomings of the Volvo system and understood one of the many small but irritating reasons why the car is going.
Yes - I have lost £3,000 unnecessarily, but at least I can afford to make a mistake like that - not that I splash money around (Ha! I would have the Merc GL500 if I did) - and rectify it without too much hassle or stress.
Kids seem happy with the choice and I think they will love the full length glass roof...
Last edited by: Espada III on Sun 18 Apr 10 at 20:51
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>>
>> In CC3 terms the 2.0 petrol is reckoned to lack sufficient grunt to pull the
>> car along >>
Hmm, yes the diesel is more torquey though despite the extra weight of the convertible a CC3 140bhp 2.0 Duratec would be quite spritely enough for most people.
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>> As you know I was very taken by the S-Max I rented but that was
>> a 2.0 petrol auto. Does anyone know how the car drives with the TDCI 140bhp
>> and 6-speed autobox? There are none near here for me to test drive.
Take a look over at www.smaxownersclub.co.uk, I'm sure that somebody on there has an auto that can give you an update.
Last edited by: a900ss on Mon 19 Apr 10 at 11:53
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I came close to an S-Max diesel auto with toys last year, but as I think I mentioned before, the lack of a spare was a deal-killer for me. I drove a manual diesel S-Max, which was very nice and drove a diesel auto Mondeo estate (same floor, engine and 'box that you're getting) and it drove very well. The Mondeo has a spare, and I thought it might be for me, but in the end I bottled it and got an E-class estate for the same money and not much older.
So, in answer to your question the 6-speed auto with the diesel drives very nicely ... in a Mondeo. Can't be much different in an S-Max after allowing for the extra weight.
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The last two diesel autos I drove before the Volvo were a Peugeot 605 2.1 SRDT and the Hyundai Trajet. Both had less far power than the S-Max and the Peugeot was perfectly reasonable to drive - the Hyundai adequate. The Volvo is quite a decent performer, but it must weigh half a ton more than the S-Max.
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I am a tad confused.
You are dumping a car, that you never drove or tested before you bought it
and you are buying a car, you have never driven or tested (the diesel auto)
Stick a 300 quid tomtom in the Volvo! problem solved.
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Wish it were that easy.
I was taken in by the journalists road tests. There is no substitute for a personal road test.
The Volvo is a tank. It wallows around corners, is clumsy in car parks and I hate the fact that Parrot cannot mute the radio when it is in use. The Comms Pack is a waste of time unless you have a second SIM for your phone line.
I now know why loads of women drive them. They don't go anywhere that might actually cause them to find the limits of the car.
The S-Max is generally decent to drive, doesn't wallow, is good in a car park and has the correct kit so that the radio and phone synch properly in with the SatNav. I don't want a TomTom, I want a built in system with a large screen and voice directions through the speakers.
You know I test drive an Outback for five minutes about two years before I bought one and it was the car I have owned the longest. So sometimes a car just fits.
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Well I took possession of the S-Max on Friday. It was delivered to me by Motors Coalville and arrived at about 1:20pm. Regretfully my first drive was to the funeral of the father of a close friend.
Anyway the car is a slightly lighter colour than the champagne of the Outback and looks very smart with its skirts and 18" alloy wheels, which have a sharp razor effect to them. The glass roof lets a lot of light into the black leather interior and the shark fin SatNav antenna looks the business.
Inside, it has the upgrade instrument pack with an information centre in the middle and the central screen has the touch screen SatNav with the phone integrated into it. The bluetooth connected to my Blackberry instantly (unlike Espadrille's Nokia which refuses to connect to anything). The seats are comfortable and there are four memories for drivers seat. The seats even have a cooling feature (as well as being heated) and that is quite an experience, but on a warm day not as unpleasant as you might think. The quality of build seems to be very good - almost as good as the A-class we have.
So, forget all the toys - what's it like to drive and do I like it? Is it staying?
Well - YES!!! It handles as well as the petrol model I rented a few weeks back and persuaded Espadrille to let me have one. It still feels like a seven seat sports car and the performance is far superior to the XC90 despite having 45 less bhp and lb ft. It must weigh a lot less. The six speed TC auto gearbox works very well and although the car is clearly a four pot diesel it is a very very good four pot diesel and is much quieter than the Volvo under load. I am very surprised at the high quality of the ride on 45 section 18" tyres.
I have not had time to work out all the functions of the SatNav system (whose female voice I am sure is Moira Stewart!), but so far I am very happy and it is staying. It looks very good, drives well and is a pleasure to sit in.
The only very small fly in the ointment is that the car was not spotless when delivered. Clean yes, but I had a good look over and they could have run a damp rag over the interior which was a little dusty and had a few spots which have come off easily. Why do car dealers not prep cars properly these days? The Volvo was the same.
All my cars to date have returned an average mpg of between 20-21. The Volvo increased this to 24-25 and I am hoping for 30-32 in the S-Max. Will keep you posted.
I am just surprised than none of the 'premium' manufacturers have got into this market. There are a lot of people buying large seven seat family cars, many choosing to buy a large 4x4. For some reason Chrysler is seen as premium in this sector despite being far less capable that the others, but can you imagine the sales if BMW made a seven seat 'ultimate driving machine'. it would sell like hotcakes. In the meantime, I think the whole S-Max package is worthy of a premium badge but I am delighted to have paid only Ford prices.
Last edited by: Espada III on Sat 24 Apr 10 at 22:05
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They are lovely cars. Enjoy!
My brother in law has just put a deposit on a year old 2.0 TDCi Titanium X which he picks up next week. They have a littl'un on the way, and he's finally got the BMW dealer he bought his chronically unreliable E90 BMW 320d M Sport from, to buy it back at a "goodwill" price before the warranty runs out and he's on his own with the £800 a month (on average) repair costs it has incurred under his ownership.
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Good call Espada. Sounds good. I think though that BMW would rather offer subsidised vascetomys before they made an mpv
:-)
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Forgot to say that mine is a one year old Titanium, but was a Ford Direct car so I assume was a car used inside FoMoCo. It therefore had virtually every extra thrown at it, so whilst I cannot recall what the X-pack has, I think mine has it as well. I have not had a chance to sample the BiXenon lights yet, so I waiting for winter to arrive to try them out and the heated front screen!!
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Glad you like it. Did they take the Volvo as a PX or do you have other plans for that ?
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Espada,
Great choice but try the heated windscreen as soon as possible (even by putting a cup of coffee on the dashboard to mist the screen up).
The screens are one of the items that do fail on an S-Max and if you can check it now rather than in a few months time when winter arrives you will have more joy with your warranty if you need to claim.
My S-Max got a new screen about 6 weeks after it was delivered but the dealer didn;t argue in the slightest.
Enjoy.
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>> Anyway I now haver permission from Espadrille.
Why in heavens name do you need permission??
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Because that's the way we work. Large purchases are discussed. If I came home and had bought a Mazda MX-5 then I would quite rightly be sent to Coventry as it does not fit in with our requirements.
Anyway just driven the car for the first time at night and the Bi-Xenon lights are very good and one of the foglights come on when you go round a bend. Makes turning into my drive very easy. I am slowly finding out all the "surprise and delight" features and there are lots of them. I am really so much happier with this car than the Volvo. Its the sort of car that Subaru could/should have made instead of the Tribeca.
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Anyway just driven the car for the first time at night and the Bi-Xenon lights
>> are very good and one of the foglights come on when you go round a
>> bend. Makes turning into my drive very easy.
It isn't a foglight that comes on, it is a specific cornering light. If you look in the headlight unit (the innermost side) you will see a third bulb (H1 I beleive).
It sin;t like the dodgy mercs that turn on the foglight, this is a really good piece of kit.
My S-Max had halogens rather than Xenons and they used to swivel in the direction of the turn (a la Citroen DS). It may sound gimmicky but once you have used it, you really do appreciate it.
a900ss
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Just had my first real drive in the S-Max since I got it. Manchester to Oldham and then to Chapel-en-le-Frith and back to the office in Salford.
Very very impressed by the ride, handling and general performance. The six speed auto-box is very smooth and in Sport mode is always in the right gear. Seats are comfortable and the SatNav and Bluetooth integrate very well with each other and with the handset.
At lights you can tell the car is a diesel - just, but on the road it is as silent as any other other car. I really feel that this car would be absolutely amazing if it was fitted with the Subaru 3.0 flat six from the Outback. In fact for 99% of my driving I cannot think that the Subaru is in anyway better. I am simply astonished that a Ford is this good. They must have cut corners somewhere, but apart from the roof lining (which is clearly far more basic than in 'prestige' cars) and the slight clanginess of the doors, everything seems just as good as anything else on the road. Should I be worried?
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I think you got told to check out the S-Max before you bought the XC90. I'd not be worried. I don't need the seats so wouldn't go for one personally. And the Mondeo is a little too big for my needs as well.
Sounds like a good car. Enjoy.
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>> In fact for 99% of my driving I cannot think that the
>> Subaru is in anyway better. I am simply astonished that a Ford is this good.
>>
I seem to recall you were one of those people who always recommended a Subaru whenever someone asked 'what car should I buy' ...
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That was before I bought the S-max!
Don't get me wrong. If I did not need the space, the Outback would be back on my drive tomorrow. That 1% of time is when the creamy six is doing its business and its worth a great deal.
What is amazing is that the technology which you expect to see on top end prestige cars is available in more run of the mill cars without feeling as if they have just loaded the car up with extras without thought. In some respects the original Japanese cars were like that - loads of extras but not integrated fully, so switches were poorly positioned etc.
Time will tell of course if the engineering first design of the Subaru will outlive the more driver and profit focused design of cars like Ford.
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It'll be fine. Try searching on AT for cars with 100,000 miles and over. Quite a lot of Fords pop up. I've run several to very high mileages without fuss or drama.
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>> Time will tell of course if the engineering first design of the Subaru will outlive the more driver and profit focused design of cars like Ford.
>>
Aren't all businesses profit focused?
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...I am simply astonished that a Ford is this good...
You're not the first, and won't be the last.
And the latest top spec S-Max is even better, so we are told.
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I've run lots of Fords well into six figure mileages, including a Sierra, a Mondeo, a Focus and a Fiesta. All were very reliable, and when the odd little thing did go, it cost peanuts to fix. The Focus was a company car. 0 - 100,000 miles with just an auxiliary belt tensioner replaced outside of routine / scheduled items.
Although we've defected to VW at the moment, I would happily have another Ford.
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You've discovered what many ignore - that Fords are about the best mainstream cars available.
Fords do everything you want and need but they won't suit snobs.
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Oh I dunno, I'm quite snobby about my Ford.......
:-)
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I drove my brother in law's new acquisition last night. I still can't get my head around how they've made something so big, heavy and tall, drive, steer, and handle like that. And yet it rides nicely too. Easily enough fun to warrant taking out for a blast for the sake of it.
If you need a people carrier of this size, I can't see why you'd buy anything else, to be honest.
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>> If you need a people carrier of this size I can't see why you'd buy
>> anything else to be honest.
But doesn't it do poorly in the customer satisfaction surveys?
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...But doesn't it do poorly in the customer satisfaction surveys?...
I can imagine the yummy mummies and their oh-so-successful executive husbands being very hard to please.
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>> I can imagine the yummy mummies and their oh-so-successful executive husbands being very hard to
>> please.
Found this - JD Power 2009, where it came 92nd. Backs up the good to drive bit, but let down by dealers and running costs (allegedly). (The 'bottom 10' remark refers to the MPV class.)
Vehicle owner satisfaction score: 75%
Overall ranking: 92nd
Reports of awful dealer service, poor visibility and worrying exterior quality helped contribute to a bottom-10 finish. That's a shame, because owners were otherwise mostly positive about the S-Max, rating its engine, gearbox and driveability well, along with its smart styling.
Only the Citroën Grand C4 Picasso scored higher marks for interior appeal, with respondents rating every area above average. However, ownership costs sealed the Ford's fate: insurance, fuel, and service or repair bills were too high.
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Auto Express Driver Power 2009:
"A fine fourth place finish for practicality can’t mask an otherwise disappointing scoresheet.
Positions of 96th for reliability and 92nd for build suggest Ford’s quality control is going awry, while 90th for ease of driving is a poor advert for a car designed to haul families around the country in style."
As Winston Churchill once said of Stafford Cripps, Ford have 'given a good pail pf milk and then kicked it over'.
What Car will have the latest JD Power survey in next month's issue.
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...while 90th for ease of driving is a poor advert for a car...
That seems a strange score when most people accept the S-Max out-handles and out-rides everything in it's class - on the rare occasions it's not broken down or otherwise falling apart.
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>>Only the Citroën Grand C4 Picasso scored higher marks for interior appeal,>>
I have done 1000 miles in a C4 Picasso it was very good to drive though IMO the interior was not a patch on an S-Max. The central speed is particularly irritating and comes across as an LHD to RHD cost cutting measure.
I reckon the S-Max exceeds virtually all expectations of C-Class and 5-Series drivers trading "down" for more space and practicality by offering no dynamic compromises.
However it probably doesnt meet all expectations of ex Verso and FRV drivers for most of whom the shape of a cubby hole and feel of the seat fabric is more important than the shape of the torque curve and the feel through the steering.
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Well I cannot comment on reliability at the moment as the car is too new to me, but frankly there is no other comparable car that is as good internally as the S-Max. We had a good look over the Verso, C4 Picasso and Zafira, and know the Mazda5 and Kia Carens very well. Espadrille hated them all apart from the S-Max. She is coming from the perspective of an A-Class driver and regularly driving my Outback and XC90. She was particularly scathing of the interior trim of the Verso.
In terms of driving quality, it is streets ahead of the XC90 and must be on par with any FWD vehicle of any make or model. Whether it is as good to drive as a RWD remains to be seen, but we are very happy.
It is clear that there are some areas of penny pinching (or rather showing the obvious difference between a 'prestige' car and a Ford). The carpet does not fit as well around protrusions (e.g. bonnet release) so comparing the Subaru to the S-Max, the difference in quality of trim fitting is marked, but the dashboard materials are very similar in quality.
So far we remain very happy and I can state that the positioning of the vent to warm your feet is far superior in the S-Max than the XC90, which gave you a warm left foot and a cold right foot.
Don't understand why people call it an expensive car to run. The insurance is far cheaper than my previous cars and the fuel consumption is about 30mpg which for a large diesel automatic doing the sort of driving I do, is pretty good.
Last edited by: Espada III on Tue 4 May 10 at 09:26
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Its interesting how a thread like this makes you more aware of specific cars.
Advertised in the paper today are 59 plate S Max Titaniums 2.0 tdci autos for £18500. It normally wouldn't have caught my attention but after reading this it most certianly does!
Won't be going out to buy one or anything, but model specific threads like this do make you look twice where you many not have before.
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Ford S-MAX - wow - what a car! - Iffy
