I've decided to buy a cheaper car to use for commuting, and to avoid putting 20,000 miles a year on my Outlander (which will do towing, weekend and holiday duties).
To that end I'll have to lose the Land Rover (now in 'For Sale' section) as I can't have three cars.
It has to be reasonably entertaining and cost up to £3,000 ish, though I have no objection to paying much less. There seem to be lots of MX5s about, I saw one near here that looked very tidy for £3200 at 8 years old. Seems like more fun than a second hand Panda?
Fuel economy needs to be reasonable - I can live with mid 30s.
I really haven't a clue. I suppose I should think economy, otherwise it doesn't make much sense, but if there's a fun element then I can trade some off. Small economical cars seem to be poor value used - too many people chasing them?
Any nominations for economy, or cheap fun? I missed out on a very tidy £500 Punto recently - why can you never find one when you want one?
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If it's just to carry you, an MX-5 would fit the bill and be fun and reasonably economical.
If you need to carry people and shopping, a small hatch would be more sensible - something nippy with a smart step-off from rest. Think about:
Fiat Panda
Ford Fiesta 1.25
Toyota Yaris 1.3 (my daughter is on her fourth and all have been lively)
Mitsubishi Colt (I had a 1.1 as a courtesy car and it was, well, frisky)
Renault Clio or Twingo with the 1.2 TCE engine, if you can find one that's been well looked after.
Avoid the Vauxhall Corsa at all costs: the only ones which are fun to drive are the 'hot' versions, and you won't get the economy you need. Polos and Fabias with the 1.2 TSI engine I think will be too new and expensive.
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A scooby or Evo now there fun and under £3k.
RX8 not sure on price but fun.
The new shape mini.
MR2
Last edited by: Bigtee on Sat 2 Jul 11 at 14:14
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>> RX8 not sure on price but fun.
I saw an RX8 on the hard shoulder with smoke (steam?) pouring out of the bonnet yesterday.
Avant - I agree with the 1.3 Yaris but how did the Colt compare in terms of driving, refinement, comfort? The CZT looks a nifty little thing.
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RX8 = 20mpg of petrol + 750 miles per litre of oil.
Great car ruined by a flawed, unreliable, short lived and ultimately pointless engine.
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RX8 is fun to drive you can't say the same for a panda or a fiesta. :-)
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>> RX8 is fun to drive you can't say the same for a panda or a
>> fiesta. :-)
No disagreement on that at all. As a car, the RX8 is lovely, just ruined as an ownership prospect by the engine. I know three people who owned RX8s, and all sold them disappointed, and considerably poorer after 12-18 months ownership.
I still can't decide whether Mazda should be applauded for sticking with the Wankel, or ridiculed for not picking up on the main reason nobody else has stuck with it; it is, for a mainstream road car powerplant, almost completely hopeless.
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>> >> RX8 is fun to drive
>> No disagreement on that at all. As a car, the RX8 is lovely, just ruined
>> as an ownership prospect by the engine. I know three people who owned RX8s, and
>> all sold them disappointed, and considerably poorer after 12-18 months ownership.
It's a shame that Mazda didn't put their 2.5L petrol engine into this car. I'd have loved one.
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>> It's a shame that Mazda didn't put their 2.5L petrol engine into this car. I'd
>> have loved one.
It wouldn't have worked though, the reason the car handles so well is that engine is so far back and low in the engine bay, the renesis engine is absolutely tiny.
The gearbox is lighter weight too than would be required for a more torquey piston engine.
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>> It's a shame that Mazda didn't put their 2.5L petrol engine into this car.
>> It wouldn't have worked though,
Good point, Skoda. Thanks.
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Can heartily recommend the MX-5. Our mk2 was faultless and cost buttons to own. They are surprisingly thirsty though. Our 1.8 rarely bettered 30 mpg, with 28 being a more realistic average. That said it is a difficult car to drive gently. The engine loves to rev, and the handling makes B-roads a pleasure. With restraint you might see 35mpg, but not by driving the car in the way it likes being driven. :-)
When we had ours, fuel was 85p a litre, we had a fully expensed company car for long hauls, and the Mazda did 10k a year, so it was no big deal.
Cracking car though. I'd have another like a shot if I could even half justify it.
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I never thought i'd be saying this but consider a Citroen C2 Diesel, in budget you'll get a tidy 1.4, if you can raise budget to £4.5k you'll get a VTS 110 hp Diesel (which SWM has).
I.4 easily gently remappable to give it some extra oomp, though not slow in the least in standard form, softer suspension too, very chuckable, cheap parts, very cheap to insure.
Quite different from the normal small hatch, aircon needed, lots of glass and the back windows don't open.
Budget for cam belt at around 110k IIRC.
I know a chap who's had a 1.4 for several years commuting to work, its now done around 160k, and he gets over 60mpg all the time with 71mpg not too difficult, sensible tyre sizes means £40/50 a corner for decent quality.
SWM's VTS averages 54mpg a mixture of town nipping about and the odd blast, keep it to 70 max on a run gets over 60mpg, pulls well, which it should do seeing as it's got the same lump as a standard C5...but hard ride and expensive low profile tyres.
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I thought you'd mentioned the C1 previously GB, and I thought "what's he on about, they're terrible" having had a courtesy one for a couple of weeks when somebody dinged the CRV in a car park. But you must have referred to the C2. Sounds like the sensible choice, if I don't succumb to an MX5!
I don't think I'll be having an RX8 though!
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C2 I.4 HDi hasn't got a FAP by the way, 1.6 does.
C1 courtesy car?, wot no top range BMW 5 series?, no whiplash claim?, blimey a proper stand up geezer, fare well.:-)
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>>C1 courtesy car?, wot no top range BMW 5 series?, no whiplash claim?, blimey a proper stand up geezer, fare well.:-)
Spot on - it was self inflicted as I was being a good citizen. Told the story here.
www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=4942&m=108813
I was agog that it's largely the insurance companies themselves that are pushing up the claims, and that so little is generally known about it. Of course it's been in the news more recently with Jack Straw doing a paper on it.
I might have struggled with the whiplash claim as I was in the village hall at the time of the accident!
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>> Fun to be had from a 2.0l petrol Focus:
More fun to be had from the 170bhp model: bit.ly/kBeNEn
:)
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Westfield. Makes no sense at all but just trust me on this one. I've never tried cocaine but I've heard it described as an automotive equivalent.
:-)
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This what it feels like every time you drive a Westfield ( if you see what I mean ) skip the focus ad by the way...
:-)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cQh1ccqu8M
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Had an hour with Westfield's Ford Zetec powered demonstrator a couple of years back. I seriously doubt cocaine could put that big a grin on my face! :-)
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>>I seriously doubt cocaine could put that big a grin on my face! :-)<<
Hehe! - chap I sold my mobile car tuning busy niz to in Eastbourne had one, drove me home from said seaside town to Bexhill,
Wow! and boy did he drive it.
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What makes those stark raw cars so nice is that they have to be driven, and are so responsive that they flatter the driver.
If you have 35 grand or so there's a neo-Aero Morgan hyped in today's Terrorflag motoring supplement, belt drive and a whacking great thumper of an air-cooled 1900cc V twin, wow! But you'd have to see whether you could come to terms with it first. And then those cars are so obvious somehow. The very fastest cars in real life are shabby looking saloons or coupes that no one notices for long if they aren't driven in an obtrusive way. Like fish in water so to speak. If you know where the cameras might be you can make progress in those.
But out-and-out sports cars are usually driven with great decorum in this part of the country. Perhaps on the other side of the anti-Celtic and anti-Viking walls...
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I was walking past a set of traffic lights this morning when the driver (loose description) of an Audi TT did a full blast take off from a standstill only to brake hard because of a car being driven at the speed limit, (30), a few yards ahead. Brilliant anticipation and planning. My thoughts at the time would not get past the naughty filter.
This was north of the wall to keep the English in (or out).
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>> north of the wall
They eat people up there ON. Just a friendly warning.
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>> They eat people up there ON. Just a friendly warning.
>>
You mean up here? :-)
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"This was north of the wall to keep the English in (or out)."
1 Hadrian's Wall is in England. The country north of the wall is England and the wall is miles away form the border between present day Scotland and England
2 There were no English nor indeed was there an an England in AD122 when Hadrian's wall was built.
Your geography is as shaky as your history
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...There were no English nor indeed was there an an England in AD122 when Hadrian's wall was built...
There has always been an England.
It stands to reason.
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>> The very fastest cars in real life
>> are shabby looking saloons or coupes that no one notices for long if they aren't
>> driven in an obtrusive way.
Come on AC, everyone knows that lowered Citroen Saxo's with four rocket launcher exhausts out the back weaving through the traffic without a care in the world are the fastest cars.
Actually, a car that doesn't look that fast is the Toyota Glanza import, a turbo version of the Toyota Starlet. But man, they shift.
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Thread drift of the worst order I know and for that I mildly apologise but I think I've just found AC in this video. See if you agree. Bear in mind he has a PT Cruiser...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmeUuoxyt_E
:-)))
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I am flattered, naturally, by the views people have of my life. But all this glamour and what a bulging-eyed Michael Winner would call PULCHWITUDE and EMBONPOINT are terribly hard work really.
I noticed a familiar figure in Zeddo's link. The Daddy from Pimp Your Ride I think.
I do like that red Ford though. I saw a blue one, same model but less offensively got up, in Oz.
As for ZZ Top: call those beards? I can grow a better one than that in three days.
Anyway what have I said to prompt this cyber-attack? Just poncing around as usual I thought.
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On the contrary. Maybe it's a Caledonian thing but it's sort of traditional to insult those you rather like in these parts. Takes a while for the uninitiated to grasp the subtleties of it but by and large by the time they question your pedigree you're well in favour...
:-)
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>> in favour...
>> :-)
Never take the word of a Caledonian element on the back foot, Robin...
∑:o}
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Is that a Batman smiley? What was the deal with him and Robin anyway? I was too young to fully grasp the intricacies.
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>> What was the deal with him and Robin anyway?
What d'you mean, 'was'? Neither has passed on to the best of my knowledge. Robin is the really quite thick disciple, pupil and protégé of the none-too-bright plutocrat Bruce Wayne, who likes dressing up and socking bad guys with his bare hands (rather than shooting them or getting the police to fight them like a normal plutocrat). Robin likes a good brawl too so he is a willing pupil.
People started to talk about Bruce Wayne being a 'confirmed bachelor' living in Stately Wayne Manor with a camp and creepy, possibly British, manservant and Robin, who of course had his own room even in the early days. After the talk started they went a bit quiet for a while causing villainy to thrive unchecked, but then they met their colleagues Batwoman and Batgirl and everything was all right again.
Being none too bright isn't the sort of problem for superheroes that it would be for you or me. Supervillains are even thicker than they are and the mayor and police chief are morons too. We should be so lucky eh Humph?
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Sun 3 Jul 11 at 18:57
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Good analysis AC. Wiki reveals one of the Butlers to be British and a cousin to my personal hero Neville Chamberlin - born in Dudley and married to the great granddaughter of Charles Dickens no less.
Last edited by: Pugugly on Sun 3 Jul 11 at 19:12
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>> by and large by the time they question your pedigree you're well in favour...
As in:
'Oh God, Livingstone, not you again, here of all places? I thought you were still doing time in Barlinnie for kiddy-fiddling.'
'Yes, it's me I'm afraid, and still highly critical of yellow-press prose styles. Are you on the run, or did you get off those plagiarism charges? On a technicality perhaps? You can't have had a Welsh lawyer.'
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>> I noticed a familiar figure in Zeddo's link. The Daddy from Pimp Your Ride I think.
No, in Humph's nickelback link (nice one too). And he's the Daddy from American Chopper actually.
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One of these tinyurl.com/69wayym flashed past me today. In an alarming shade of white, it looked a real tool!
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Could cherry pick a cherished Fiat Coupe for £3k.
Previous style Honda Civic is supposed to be the better car than the current one in most ways, although the Type-R might grate if you're not into that kind of thing.
I like the Hyundai Coupe, no idea how they go, only thing i (think i) know about them is rear brakes are not a DIY job.
Failing miserably on the fuel economy stakes, but a Jag XK would hopefully be a good treat (nobody spoil it if they're not, i still want one).
MG TF - cherry pick one with the fixed head gasket, there's a specific (expensive) head gasket not just any old replacement one. I'd take a punt on a hydragas one and leave contingency money in the kitty to convert it to coil spring suspension if any problems arise.
Toyota Supra.
Skoda Fabia Vrs, 60mpg+ i think. They run 15 second quarter miles in some cases.
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Are you going to be doing 20,000 a year in this thing, Manatee? If so I'd think you'd want something more relaxing than an MX5; I would and I've done that sort of commuting.
I did mine in a Volvo S60, as you know, and I reckon it's about perfect for the task - comfortable, quiet, great audio system, even better seats and a secure boot for your laptop and sandwiches. £3,000 would get you something newer and less milesy than my 52 with the last and best-sorted of the 163 D5 engines. No sports car, I admit, but the shove in the back when the turbo spools up still makes me smile.
Last edited by: WillDeBeest on Sat 2 Jul 11 at 22:26
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>>It has to be reasonably entertaining
Hmmm
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>> Are you going to be doing 20,000 a year in this thing, Manatee?
Nearer 10,000. It would halve the mileage on the other car which I would then keep longer. Most days it will be a 35 mile round trip, with occasional longer ones. I think the D5s like a drink don't they?
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On the other hand. It could, admittedly slightly impertinently, suggested that it would be a shame not to use the car you must have wanted and instead to buy and use one which you didn't particularly.
Bit like having a beautiful wife but mainly entertaining a somewhat careworn and frankly too often round the track mistress perhaps? I'd concentrate on the wife, well, at least until she goes to seed if you see my thinking?
At only an additional 10k miles a year that should be some time yet.
:-)
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Humph raises a good point. Commuting is the most obvious example of the journey we do because we have to, not because we want to. Looking after you during these journeys is perhaps the most important thing a car can do, and of you chose the Outlander because you like it (and not just because it can tow) then arguably that is a better tool for the job.
We had this argument a while ago with another poster, who had a nice new Golf but didn't want to 'put miles on it'. It got a bit heated but I can't remember what he decided to do.
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Ah. My round trip used to be 170 miles; bit different - I'd have given up the job rather than drive that far in an MX5! My D5 consistently does 44 to 48mpg, driven to get where I'm going.
Drove it home tonight along the A4 and across the river at Sonning, sun in my eyes and La Bohème in my ears. It may not be the last word in - well, anything, but people up there are talking about Fabias and Fiats; I have some experience of both and I'd take this over either. It's still with us precisely because it's such a good commuting car, and I'll miss it when I do eventually move it on.
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You both have a point.
I'm surorised at the economy of the D5 - the local Volvo dealer actually put me off the V70 and XC70 by saying I'd be lucky to get 35mpg. I'm sorry about that as I liked them.
I've been using Mrs M's old Civic 1.6 auto this week, including a trip to Midlands, and I've enjoyed it except for the absence of cruise control (a habit I could probably break). No point buying another of those - I have the chance to own something different. I think a Westfield might be a shake rattle and roll too far though.
I guess I don't need to rush into anything and I still need to sell the landie. A bit of snow next week would help there.
The sensible thing would be to think of my holed-below-the-waterline pension (but £3,000 would be a minnow breaking wind in the Atllantic) or go on a cruise (yuk) or perhaps just save it for when Mrs M's comes to the end of the road. She doesn't want to change it until then (more sense than I), It's only done 40,000 miles in 9 years, and is well maintained mechanically though it looks as if it's been rolled, which is why swapping cars during the week is a bad idea!
I'll let the idea mature for a while. Meanwhile thanks for the info and ideas.
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How about an alfa spider? 2 litre engine. 30 ish mpg. Comfy seats and climate control. Doesn't batter you about like you'd get in an mx5. Plenty around between 2 & 3k.
Or an ordinary 156. Even cheaper. Can get the diesels for £1500 if you look hard enough. 40 mpg and quite poky. The 1.9s will do 50 odd but they're later and tend to cost more. Seem to be cheaper than the hatch 147s for more car.
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As an owner of a MK2 MX-5 I don't think I would recommend one as a daily driver /commuter car unless most of your driving is free moving A or B roads. I manage to get around 35 mpg from my 1.8. This is almost all fairly empty country roads but driven enthusiastically. As soon as you start hitting traffic the mpg will take a big hit.
Mine is purely a toy which only normally comes out when the weather is dry, though this could be winter or summer so the roof is always down. Unfortunately I hate the thing with the roof up.
For me, driving to work during our long wet winters with the roof up amongst slow moving traffic would soon become a chore.
Purely my opinion of course as I know there will be many who do just that.
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Update. I've bought a cheap MX5. A 1999 1.8iS with 88,000 miles. It could do with a bit of TLC, though it's perfectly useable and I like it a lot. Even Mrs Dugong likes it.
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Excellent choice, if (unlike me) you're young, under six foot and can bend enough to get in and out. ;>)
Relatively cheap to insure, cheap to service and seemingly bomb-proof. I just hate getting to the blasted oil filter on my daughter's. Non-interference cam-belt IIRC.
I'd recommend a hard top for Winter, but it makes it even more difficult to access as you can't fold the roof for old fogies like me.
The only car I've come across with a combined radio/CD/ cassette.
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Volvo's HU-801 unit, as fitted to certain models of the S60, V70 and S80 (but not to mine) in the early 2000s, has both CD and cassette slots.
new.volvocars.com/ownersdocs/2001/2001_s80/01s80_10a.htm
An S60 is easier to get into than an MX5, too, but you wouldn't listen, would you?
};---)
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>> An S60 is easier to get into than an MX5, too, but you wouldn't listen,
>> would you?
>> };---)
My mid life crisis just goes on and on...
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Think I'm currently on my 4th mlc.
Last edited by: legacylad on Mon 8 Aug 11 at 22:12
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My wife's on her third MX 5
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Excellent cars if you have another car you can use too. My brother got a Miarta when he moved to the states - cheap insurance and a fun car. Replaced by a V8.
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Thats a poor return rate.
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when I get to mid life I will let you know. I am still in the juvenile phase.
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 8 Aug 11 at 22:31
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Runabout? - Avant
