Are they really more expensive to manufacture?
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1/ Economies of scale.
2/ Yes, I reckon that like for like they cost more to manufacture.
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Because buyers are willing to pay.
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I wonder how much of the difference in list price translates into actual price paid. I found myself thinking about this yesterday after driving an automatic V70 - first time for years I'd driven an auto and I was surprised at how much I liked it. It's something like a £1,500 option but, to judge from proportions in secondhand listings, one that most new buyers take.
Is it, in these cases, I wonder, something dealers throw in for a minimal extra price to sweeten the deal, because the actual cost to them is very low (economy of scale again in big cars) but it seems like a high-value extra to the customer?
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>> Is it, in these cases, I wonder, something dealers throw in for a minimal extra
>> price to sweeten the deal, because the actual cost to them is very low (economy
>> of scale again in big cars) but it seems like a high-value extra to the
>> customer?
I think its because of the type of car. A big volvo is not the kind of thing you are going to nimbly hurl around, chucking it into bends, heel and toeing, short shifting. traffic light grand prix.
Its a more sedate experience albeit hitting bit speedo numbers on the motorway. Its the kind of car and driver I think. And bigger engines have traditionally been coupled to auto boxes.
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I always remember the Chrysler Neon in the 90's. They had a big advert saying free upgrade to the automatic, but it turned out it was a three speed box, which was out of date in this country even by the 1960's.
I think the reason is that European buyers prefer manuals so they can make a lot more than automatics. Economies of scale.
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Not in big cars, Rats - those are predominantly automatic, even in Europe; hence my question about whether customers actually pay full whack for the auto option. No-one pays extra for metallic paint at that end of the market, so I wonder if something similar applies to automatic boxes.
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Agreed, the marked expects the majority of large cars to be auto. I think certain makes are also expected to be automatic - Mercedes, Jaguar, Honda??
The rise in leasing/PCP/etc type funding for cars must also help increae the number of autos on the road. Residual value is one of the key factors determining the monthly cost, and an auto box on many cars is seen as desirable. Because this pushes up the residual value (or at least, stops it falling so far ;-)) the addition of an auto box often has little or no impact on monthly cost.
So unless a new car is paid for in 'cash' the actual cost of chosing an auto box is probably nowhere near the cost of the option - approaching £2k on many cars nowadays, but maybe only £20 / month on a PCP
In fact I wouldn't be surprised if it cost more to lease a manual MB 'E' class than an auto simply because there's little demand for manuals second-hand
Peter
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>> Agreed, the marked expects the majority of large cars to be auto. I think certain
>> makes are also expected to be automatic - Mercedes, Jaguar, Honda??
>>
The three Omegas I had were all manual, but each time I bought one 90% of the ones advertised were autos, even though the auto was 1K extra on most models 10 years ago..
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The auto trans in my Lancer estate is very good, Mitsubishi call it INVECS-11 and it's based on Porsche's Tiptronic semi-auto,
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INVECS
Apparently it learns from the drivers habits over time, so if you're a mimser (like moi) it'll change gear accordingly.
I use the semi-auto position quite a lot for engine breaking as this is a hilly area.
If I was to buy a new car, I'd pay whatever the extra cost was for an autobox (a proper autobox!)
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>> If I was to buy a new car, I'd pay whatever the extra cost was
>> for an autobox (a proper autobox!)
>>
+1
Yet twenty years ago, I was vehement that I would never, ever, EVER drive an automatic.
Funny how you change, innit?
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Driving in London or any large town on a regular basis is where an automatic rally shows it's worth,
Jesus! - I've just seen a Raptor swoop down and take one of my collared Doves :(
Anyway ... The INVECS-11 Tiptronic (type) gearbox in the Mitsi is about as much gear changing as I want to do these days, I'll select 1st gear when I leave my house to ascend a long steepish country lane, and then bung into auto mode, when descending a hill I'll stick it in 2nd gear for the engine breaking ... sometimes I'll forget it's in manual mode, and wonder what the noise is.
:-D
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I noticed the manual mode of the V70's automatic box has a Don't Be Silly feature: I might approach a roundabout in fifth (of six), brake, then notice as I pulled away that it had selected second for me. Didn't try to see if it automatically selected a higher gear to prevent over-revving but I wouldn't be surprised.
The 'learning' idea is interesting. The V70 and I had just met, and I found it selecting fifth on winding roads where I'd have held my manual in fourth, only for it to change down the moment I asked it to accelerate. I used the manual selector to have it my way, but would the car eventually have learned to do it my way?
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>>but would the car eventually have learned to do it my way?<<
Good question ... The invecs (Intelligent & Innovative Vehicle Electronic Control System) transmission used on the Mitsi''s was introduced nigh on 20 years ago, so one would draw the natural conclusion that the latest offering from Volvo etc., would be even-more 'intelligent'.
I've noticed that in the couple of weeks I've owned the Lancer, it has learned I drive differently to the previous owner (from Gloucester) and it selects the appropriate gear for descending hills much sooner than before,
of course it could be my imagination but, I don't think so as I'm always 'in-tune' (in perfect harmony) with my car :)
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I dont know why they cost more but I liked the autobox in the Honda Jazz.CVT.I have a gear change Focus now.Next car will be a automacic again I miss the relax driving in town.
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Don't forget that when a maker charges you £1500 for an auto box he has got an unsold manual (£1000?) in stock to put in another car. so the real cost is more like £2500.
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Well, not really - he'll just order an automatic box from his supplier instead of a manual, and may or may not pay more for it. But you're right to point out that the option price is for one in lieu of the other - rather than a simple addition like a leopard-fur steering wheel cover.
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I read somewhere that some modern automatics (like the ones in VWs) can be more economical than the equivalent petrol model as they are always in the "right" gear and with CO2 rates being a decider for company car drivers we may see more of them.
Without going in to arguments as to reliability!
Last edited by: zippy on Fri 17 Jun 11 at 20:30
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>>I read somewhere that some modern automatics (like the ones in VWs) can be more economical than the equivalent petrol model as they are always in the "right" gear and with CO2 rates being a decider for company car drivers we may see more of them<<
DSG comrade zippy ~ en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct-Shift_Gearbox
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Why do autos cost more? - Hard Cheese
