In this week's Auto Express (which doesn't cover April 1st) it has an article about insurance fraud investigators.
One comment is that for the last few years, BMW keys store the car mileage in the chip so the insurace company are able to know, for instance, if a car has been stolen and the 2 mileages match, then the keys were used in the "theft". Other info regarding servicing, error codes also are stored.
Anyone else aware of this - was news to me?
|
|
I fall into the "Joe public" category as far as computers and electronics are concerned, but I would not be surprised at any information that could be extracted by the manufacturer or a forensic level of examination. I wonder about warranty claims, modifications, (chipping), accident investigation etc. The key story does not surprise me either, if it can remember steering sensitivity, seat position, mirror settings, and other user preferences, mileage is no big step.
|
I won't be surprised if it is discovered that all modern cars have hidden trackers which logs GPS of your every journey in remote databases.
|
|
If you use a mobile phone or plastic cash card another tracker should not be a problem! :-)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Fri 26 Mar 10 at 10:39
|
BMW keys certainly store service information, I haven't seen it in action but when I questioned why my 330d still didn't want a service at 18K miles (it''s saying another 5K so I guess I must be kind to it) I was told to bring my key into any dealer who would read off the info.
I asked a colleague who said - 'yes they put your key in a reader and can tell all of the condition based service info (oil, brakes, coolant, faults)' so the mileage must be on the key.
Last edited by: idle_chatterer on Fri 26 Mar 10 at 10:51
|
Yes - this is true, when I used to take my wife's BMW MINI for a service they used to ask me to bring in the car "with the key you normally use" (ie not the spare) and this key was simply inserted into a reader on the Service Advisor's desk. This action then brought up all the required details on the SA's computer screen : mileage, last service date, and her details etc.
I'm not sure how secure their system is.
Presumably if you were to lose your BMW car key - in the wrong hands it wouldn't be too difficult to "read" the key and find out a) what car (reg no) it fitted - and - b) the owners details.
Quite worrying really
Jacks
|
I can see that advantages of having the service details and VIN on the key.
Service department has a slot similar to that on the dashboard of the car which they can then get all the details off eliminating customer error and the faff of someone running back and forth through the showroom because they can't remember their number plate.
Advantage of using the VIN is this does not change unlike a number plate can.
I'm not sure if all the car parameters (mirror, seat positioning etc) are stored on the key or if the key, when pressing the open button, sends its unique ID and the car sets up the parameters according to the ID.
|
>>
>> I'm not sure if all the car parameters (mirror seat positioning etc) are stored on
>> the key or if the key when pressing the open button sends its unique ID
>> and the car sets up the parameters according to the ID.
>>
They are, depending the options you have fitted of course, climate control settings, DRL preferences, display readout / lighting levels, stereo preferences, possibly mirrors are set on mine. I think you need the comfort seats to get those settings stored. IIRC it's called 'BMW Profile".
I don't think the owner or reg is on the key, just VIN info which is matched on the computer database when read, not rocket science but quite neat I'd say.
Last edited by: idle_chatterer on Fri 26 Mar 10 at 11:04
|
I'm told that M3s have a 'launch control' feature, which gets the car off the line as fast as possible. But that the car records how many times its been used, and excessive use of it can be a reason for turning down warranty claims.
Don't know for sure if its true.
|
Servicing is condition based and dependent on usage, for instance in my dialogue over the 23K predicted first service for my car I was told that cars used mostly for city driving tend to require a service between 15K and 18K miles and that the maximum is 24K miles for cars which have an easier life (like mine, mostly motorway and A road use).
Consequently, the use of launch control is most definitely going to impact servicing requirements as I suspect that most components are stressed by this practice ?
|
>>I'm told that M3s have a 'launch control' feature, which gets the car off the line as fast as possible. But that the car records how many times its been used, and excessive use of it can be a reason for turning down warranty claims.
A manufacturer will turn down a warranty claim if a customer uses a facility of the car?
Could explain a certain type of car and it's driver's reluctance to use the indicators. ;>)
|
It would be unworkable to design a car that could stand the most brutal treatment possible day in day out. It would weigh a ton and cost a fortune.
A car has to be designed for 'reasonable' use, which certainly means using 100% of the performance sometimes, but launch control every time you leave the lights?? Would certainly and reasonably reduce the expected life.
|
>> A manufacturer will turn down a warranty claim if a customer uses a facility of
>> the car?
BMW have got previous on this. A thread on another forum, and BBC's Watchdog program, showed how BMW refused to replace damaged alloys, claiming misuse by drivers. They relented for a few high-profile cases, but they are playing up again now.
I understand the latest excuse is that the UK's roads are so bad that the wheels can't cope.
Not fit for purpose, I'd say.
|
>> BMW have got previous on this.
At the risk of causing offence - how has this got anything to do with keys which store condition based servicing information, it's not big brother and is merely a copy of what's in the ECU anyhow. Other manufacturers use this kind of info to (say) tell if the engine has been over revved (a post on Civinfo years ago when an early FN2 Type-R blew up IIRC).
I've read the thread(s) on BMW 19" wheels and I'm sure that the complainants have a point but I haven't heard of their rebuttals from BMW being related to the service info in the key fob ?
As for the M3, the service info (including launch control usage) merely indicates that you are hard on the car so it needs more frequent servicing - or perhaps it belies track usage which (AFIK) isn't covered by warranties ?
|
>> At the risk of causing offence - how has this got anything to do with
>> keys which store condition based servicing information
The original question has been answered. So now, just like at the pub, we're moving on to related discussion.
One of the reasons I moved to this forum was that it wasn't going to be heavily moderated. Useful yes, but not anal.
|
>> Quite worrying really
Are you not buying BMW then, I suppose?
|
idle_chatterer.
>> At the risk of causing offence - how has this got anything to do with keys which store condition based servicing information
If you remember, the point was made that BMW store the launch control data in the key fob.
At that point the thread drifted slightly (but in a logical progression).
1) tigger mentioned that he believed that excessive use of launch control could invalidate the warranty.
2) Then bathtub_tom's asked the question "A manufacturer will turn down a warranty claim if a customer uses a facility of the car?"
3) Then I tried to reply to bathtub_tom.
All three of us are guilty of thread drift, that's all. Are we forgiven now I've tried to explain how it happened? :-)
P.S. I think that storing the info in the key fob is a great idea. I've found it useful on several occasions.
|
Its very easy to do, flash memory is now so cheap you could easily store 1GB of data in a car key. If the car had GPS it would technicaly be possible to store every journey the car ever did in the key!
In five years time there will be no such thing as dectives because all they need to do is examine the suspects ECU and it will tell them where they have been!
|
|
As far as I know BMWs do store the VIN number in the key as well as the mileage and various service related parameters. The batteries in the key fob are also charged via the wireless connection. The VIN, by the way, can also be displayed on the screen of the SatNav system.
|
>>>no such thing as dectives because all they need to do is examine the suspects ECU and it will tell them where they have been!<<<
Maybe I have missed something in this thread, but when are 'they' going to start brain implants of ECUs?
;)
|
Hi Londoner - my point wasn't intended to be regarding thread drift, I'm as guilty as anyone on that score - more my understanding of posts appearing to connect BMW's alleged behaviour with respect to cracked alloys and the storing of launch control information to avoid warranty liability. Maybe I have misunderstood ?
I really didn't wish to cause offence or provoke a negative reaction but I don't think that storing launch control usage is wrong from the manufacturer's perspective nor is it necessarily wrong to deny warranty cover as a result for two reasons:
1- the function is designed for track use and track use isn't covered by the warranty AFAIK (and I'd suggest that this is entirely reasonable).
2 - use of the function has an impact on the service life of the car and so it is legitimate to store it for these purposes irrespective of warranty or track use.
Therefore I would contend that to suggest (if indeed that was the suggestion) that the motive for storing the information is to avoid warranty claims is not justified, purely in my opinion of course.
|
Just a simple misunderstanding on both sides. No harm done! :-)
I agree with you. I don't think that the motive for storing info in the key fob is to avoid warranty claims. Sorry if I gave that impression.
I was just waffling on about BMW and their cavalier approach to warranty claims in general!
("Cavalier" - surely that's a Vauxhall, not a BMW? - Ed.)
|
I did use a smiley: ;>)
It was meant to be in jest, I'm too old to take life seriously.
|
Yes, that goes for Skoda (and presumably VAG in general) as the insurance company asked for the key when my Octavia was stolen.
I wonder how it works, in that supposing two of you use the car with a key each - does the info get updated as soon as the second key is used to drive the car?
They clearly seem to be complicated - my car has been recovered but still waiting for new locks and keys.
|
|
I knew about this key business with BMW - they told me when the car was booked in for a service - seems to me its a simple way of accessing vehicle data in a dynamic way without having to plug the car into a diagnostics widget. The keys are also programmable to remember seat position and even radio stations for individual users - Not something that keeps me awake at night.
|
|
If you wear a tin-foil hat while driving the key data storage function is disabled ;-)
|
BMW keys store mileage? - Old Navy
