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As the title suggests, a place to discuss Formula One, and all other types of motorsport (excluding MotoGP, which has a section of its own).
PLEASE NOTE:-
To try and maintain some kind of logical order of discussion, if you start a new subject then reply to this post and remember to change the default subject header.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 9 May 11 at 01:01
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Call yourselves enthusiasts? Faugh! Lunch time and not a word from anyone.
I actually got up at ten to nine to catch it, earlier than usual by some margin.
Button brilliant and lucky, not Hamilton's day (let down by a bad pit stop), Webber gritty and getting back up there but apparently not favoured by the team, Kobayashi solid as usual plus two damn good overtakes, di Resta coming on well, Massa good too... Great race, eventful. Renault looking dangerous to front runners.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Sun 10 Apr 11 at 14:12
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I watched it, great race. Hamilton and Webber looked decidedly irritated after the race, only saving grace for both is that its a long season.
Props to Petrov for accident of the day. Koby as usual showing his racing nature ( someone put that boy in a proper car please ).
Red Bull really need to get their Kers sorted, its a bit lightweight that they can put together such a great car then fail on an element that nobody else seems to be having such issues with. Odd.
Vettel is a class act, even if he is ever so slightly irritating.
Ferrari, still nowhere it seems, Alonso made a silly mistake which cost him big, I rather hope Massa beats him this year ( although putting Koby in his seat next year would be interesting ).
Mercedes.... start on next years car maybe? Great result for Renault, one to watch.
Happy camper and the tyre wear certainly keeps you guessing.
Last edited by: KosaiIggypop on Sun 10 Apr 11 at 14:25
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I was pleased to see Button @ 2nd.
Hamilton's comments after the race, according to the (was) Tory-now whoknows?-graph, were reminiscent of Alonso's whining.
Alonso's error made me laugh, bumptious pfd that he is!!
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 12 Apr 11 at 00:50
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I got up to watch it too, and it was an interesting race,
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>> Button brilliant and lucky,
It wasn't luck, he drives smoothly...and therefore preserves his tyres. With these new tyres he could easily have more results like this.
It's the hare and tortoise scenario isn't it. Hamilton is definitely more racy..but..today his tyres were 'shot' early.
Should be interesting in some of the next races.
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>> It's the hare and tortoise scenario isn't it.
Today's Telegraph motoring section says this exact line. I've been plagiarised!
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I thought you'd stolen it. I read it yesterday evening on the Telegraph website ;-)
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>> I've been plagiarised!
Heh heh. Tell me about it Westpig.
If this sort of thing is happening to the old bill these days the world is indeed in a terrible state of chassis.
'I was proceeding in a westerly direction down the High Street at approximately 9.43.457 pm, when ...'
:o}
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>> >> Button brilliant and lucky,
>>
>> It wasn't luck, he drives smoothly...and therefore preserves his tyres. >>
Yes he is smooth etc though he was lucky that Massa and Hamilton were delayed by slow pit stops early on and that Alonso had to pit for a new wing.
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Strange application of penalties, perhaps Hamilton was weaving a little though it didnt seem too bad.
And Alonso hitting Hamilton was a racing incident, nothing more, however if it deserved a penalty then what was the point in adding 20 secs to his time if it did not demote him a place.
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Vettel in pole position again. Bad news for Webber. And Petrov, who's car decided to misbehave. But good for tomorrows race. I'm hoping Petrov works his way through the field. A really good car - it sounds great on the over-run, and the colour scheme is ace.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 16 Apr 11 at 21:11
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Webber has always been unlucky and this session was a lulu even by his standards. The team doesn't seem to be doing well by him. His car is slower than Vettel's.
Petrov's breakdown crossed up a lot of people who all had to go out in a phalanx and try to improve their lap times. Most notably Kobayashi who I hoped would put in a race-like multi-overtaking fast lap, but discretion was the better part of valour. I think actually he is very keen to be disciplined and not repeat the wild kamikaze antics of one or two previous potentially quick Japanese drivers. I hope his restraint will be rewarded.
Di Resta still doing well. Vettel's car is so much quicker than the rest of the front runners that the McLaren drivers may be nourishing dark secret wishes that the machinery will go wrong or Vettel will trip over a tail-ender.
I think these new putty tyres are annoying. A bit too much of a good thing. Actually I think appointing a single tyre manufacturer is over-regulation. Teams should be able to get them anywhere they are available in regulation form.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 16 Apr 11 at 21:11
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I think Hamilton was hard done for receiving a penalty in the last race. There's a difference between moving about to prevent someone getting a tow...to moving about to prevent an overtake..i.e. the tow puts someone in the position to overtake, it is not all one manouevre.
If a racer were to swerve too much to prevent an ovetake, then there could be contact and an accident.
If a racer swerved too much to prevent a tow..the car behind wouldn't be as close and there'd be no tow.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 16 Apr 11 at 21:11
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Sepang in China?
I liked the way Heidfeld got caught out thinking he could leave his Q2 run to the last 3 mintues.
That'll teach him.
I wonder if in future qualifying runs will all have the same one-attempt tactics used by Hamilton, Massa, Alonso, et al.
I was watching this weeks choice of "classic F1 races" on the red button today.
Amazing to see the number of overtakes Lewis manages. In some races he was the only driver making the race interesting to watch.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 16 Apr 11 at 21:11
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>> Sepang in China?
Sorry, forgot to change the default title. I'm not keen on the Shanghai track. A lot of slow bends and doubling back. I think that the Spa track is one of my favourites with all the trees, and fast too.
title now changed
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 16 Apr 11 at 21:11
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I am know I am a bit of a dinosaur, when I am not a penguin, but what is it with this champagne spraying? A fine French product @ £100 for a large bottle being used to give each other a shower. Why can't they use Lidl Cava and why do they have to do it at all?
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Crikey what a race. Easily the best of the season so far and it would have to be some race to top it. Plenty of legit overtakes, lots of strategic calls and some serious talent on show.
Looks like two stops wasnt the way to go although credit to Vettel for making it work as far as it did. Lewis looked in his groove after what seems like a long absence and so many overtakes that counted.
Schumacher looked on form if not in the fastest car, Massa did very well, showing up Alonso to an extent. Webber though made a remarkable recovery and you have to wonder what another 5 laps would have given us, he needed this result and Im very happy for him.
Bad luck to Button, but 4th isnt a bad result and what we have seen today is that Red Bull arent impossible to beat, which just makes the season more interesting.
Vettel didnt sound as happy at the end of the race as he has done and I dont think it was just the 2nd place - I suspect from his point of view, if Webber can get 3rd from 18th, he is right to question how he ended up in 2nd from pole.
It was a great race all round, worth watching all of it, if they held the whole season in China I wouldnt complain, its clearly a great track for racing.
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Excellent race. As Brundle and Coultard said, some great driving at the beginning to avoid any touching, so everyones in the fight. Can't believe Webber started in eighteenth and finished on the podium.
Brilliant drive from Lewis - he was excited at the prospect of having a set of fresh tyres after qualifying, but at the beginning of the race it looked like it wouldn't work out for him, but things change very quickly.
Some good fights between everyone, I hope the rest of the season continues like this.
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Best race in recent memory. Great action, loads of overtaking, and some stunning performances from the likes of Hamilton and Webber. Can we have more like this? Please?
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A good race, great that there are five teams in with a shout, McLaren, Red Bull, Ferrari, Mercedes and perhaps Renault based on the previous two races.
I agree with Webber though in that the massive difference in tyre performance is creating a bit of a false picture, in that regard Massa could have won it had Ferrari followed McLaren on strategy, he had already passed Hamilton and had the pace on the respective tyres though was stuck too long on the hard tyres.
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Excellent Excellent Grand Prix
what a drive by Webber!
>> a bit of a false picture, in that regard Massa could have won it
Is there no end to your Ferrari Fantasy dreams cheddar? Massa couldn't win an argument in a dark room with himself. And the car is just not good enough at this stage.
Is your world coloured red 24 x 7?
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>> Brilliant drive from Lewis - he was excited at the prospect of having a set of fresh tyres after qualifying
The strategy that won it for Hamilton started on Saturday - he kept a set of tyres. So despite being third on the grid he made up for it in the race.
Webber was brilliant and showed three stops was the way to go. But how did he manage that with a car with KERS not working. Brilliant drive.
What was button thinking stopping in the wrong place. That not only affected his pitstop but the Red Bull driver behind.
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>> Massa couldn't win an argument in a dark room with himself. And the car is just not good enough at this stage. >>
Z, Massa overtook the winner, Hamilton, in the first stint and was a nett 2nd behind Vettel before his tyres went off, furthermore his times were competitive at all stages, the problem was that he was hampered by the hard tyres for too many laps at the end of the race.
I think it is reasonable to say that had Ferrari mirrored McLaren's strategy then Massa could have won.
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Its not at all reasonable, and only your Rosso Red sunglasses could stretch that conclusion. The car simply didn't have the pace, in qualifying or race trim.
The world is full of if only's!
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>> The times are facts Z.
Indeed
He was 16 seconds behind the winner in the race AND 11 seconds behind Vettel who was on the same strategy as Massa So he wouldn't have won, would he. >>
I wont push the point further by mentioning qualifying times.
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 17 Apr 11 at 22:22
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It was not only the three stop strategy that worked for Webber and Hamilton. It was the tyres they were able to put on for those stops. Webber having been knocked out of qualifying in Q3 had the best tyres. Hamilton's gamble in Q3 to save a set seems to have worked.
Webber stormed through the field from 18th because his tyres were better for longer. To do the same Vettel and Massa needed to preserve tyres in qualifying which they didn't.
If you take Mark Webber's finishing position, what would have happened if you made sure you got into Q1 and then didn't try to go any faster and settle for 10th, thus saving tyres?
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>> He was 16 seconds behind the winner in the race AND 11 seconds behind Vettel
>> who was on the same strategy as Massa So he wouldn't have won,
>> would he. >>
You miss the point Z, I said if Ferrari had mirroed McLaren's 3 stops strategy. Of course if Red Bull had also mirrored McLaren's 3 stop strategy then Vettel would have been hard to beat.
At least you acknowledge that on the same strategy Massa would have probaly beaten Hamilton.
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>> I wont push the point further by mentioning qualifying times.
>>
Yes, its strange, both Ferraris were 0.7 behind the Mcs in qualifying though Massa matched or bettered them for pace in the race.
Last edited by: Cheddar on Mon 18 Apr 11 at 10:46
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>> Of course if Red Bull had also mirrored McLaren's 3 stop strategy then Vettel would have been hard to beat.
If Vettel and Massa had stopped again then they'd have dropped places too and needed to make them up. But Hamilton (and Webber) had better tyres to use because they'd use less in qualifying. If Vettel had stopped three times I think Hamilton would have won and Webber come second.
The gain Webber made shows how these tyres goes off quicker than previous seasons and why looking after (or not using) them in qualifying makes a difference. Could have teams at certain tracks using tactics in qualifying.... a bit like how they varied fuel loads.
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rtj,
The three stop guys were faster because they spent much less time than the others on hard tyres, if Vettel and Massa had three stopped (as per Hamilton and Button for instance) then it is likely that they would have finished 1-2. If Massa had three stopped and Vettel had stayed on the two stop strategy then is is possible, even likely, that Massa would have won.
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No you miss the point. you said Massa would have won. He didn't even beat a car on the same strategy. You cant have it both ways.
And he didn't better them for pace, if he had he would have won. Or match them, then it would have been a tie. And massa didnt have the fastest lap.
In fact every statistic about the race says Massa would not have won. Or beaten Hamilton. He started 6th, he finshed 6th, 6th was his ranking..
Maybe if the front 5 had blown up he might have...
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>> you said Massa would have won. He didn't even beat a car on the same strategy. You cant have it both ways. >>
You can have it both ways, it is a matter of strategy, see my reply to rtj above.
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Its a matter of coming 6th
He was never going to win, regardless of strategy. I really dont know how you can possibly say he would have won. NOTHING in the race indicates he would have.
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 18 Apr 11 at 12:01
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The state of the tyres was also a factor Cheddar and obviously stopping for new rubber helped (the strategy). There were others on three stop strategies like Button. And yet Webber came third... without a working KERS system.
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Cheddar I am not up to speed on this. I thought everybody had the same tyres or are you and Webber referring to the way in which the teams choose to use them?
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Sensational race, very eventful, fabulous drives by Hamilton and Webber, a gritty one by Kobayashi who squeezed into the points with a rakishly bent nose, master class in old-pro midfield racing by Schumacher and Alonso, Button looking very rueful afterwards as well he might, having cost himself a couple of seconds by trying to run over the Red Bull mechanics in the pits and perhaps another second letting himself be jumped by his teammate.
The commentators said they liked the new tyre regime but I still don't, and I don't think the drivers do either. Both of those who managed a late surge, Hamilton and Webber, did so because they had extra fresh tyres that they hadn't used in qualifying. It makes race weekends more cerebral and tactical, less about driving and consistent mechanical supremacy. Webber, when congratulated on his sensational climb from 18th on the grid to the podium, muttered something like that, adding that it wasn't all that challenging sailing past 'guys who had nothing left to fight back with' or words to that effect. It makes the racing more complicated to follow but not necessarily more exciting. It's artificial.
Damn good race all the same, kept my attention anyway. I thought it would be lost in the vast empty spaces of the Shanghai circuit, but it seemed to fill the actual track well enough.
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>>It makes the racing more complicated to follow but not necessarily more exciting. It's artificial. <<
No, it isnt. All drivers have the same choices and in racing terms they live or die by them.
If every driver was on a 2 stop or all on a 3 stop, it wouldnt make any odds but they have the choice to do what they think will work. They know how the tyres behave, its a calculated risk.
Turns out Red Bull are quite as peerless with their forward planning as they are with car design.
Seems to me that looking after the tyres while still racing is very much about driving skill which is why teams can have two drivers on similar race strategies not crossing the line next to each other.
I find mechanical supremacy rather dull to watch.
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You make a good case Stu, but I still don't really agree. These tyres go from all right to crap very suddenly. It's an artificially imposed lowering of quality, when racing really ought to be about improving quality. And as I said, I don't like the monopolistic giving of a contract to a single manufacturer either. That too is artificial, and rather gross as well.
You say the drivers live or die by their tyre decisions. Up to a point, but not really. They live or die by the frantic key-tapping and number-crunching of a bank of bespectacled back-room geezers with computers. That's part of it these days, OK.
But I noticed what Webber said. The difference between new tyres and ones that have done ten or fifteen laps is excessive. It shouldn't be like that. It's a bit annoying.
You could say that some chassis are better for tyres with a full fuel load or make the best of a lighter car at the end of the race. There will still be differences, and between drivers too. But they've suddenly given the whole of F1 tyres deliberately intended to be more rubbish than last year's tyres. It's ghastly and American.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Sun 17 Apr 11 at 18:50
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F1 is a team sport though, its not just about the drivers, but the whole package and how they adapt and cope with the rules and situation they find themselves in.
Im glad the tyres are single supplier because the smaller teams have more than enough variables against them, so atleast a level playing field on tyres is something.
A driver works with the team, they dont just turn up at quali and race day and drive the car, they help develop it, fine tune it, make it work better. Its too easy to assume its the team making it all happen - without the drivers input, how successful would a team be?
The rate of tyre wear is rather irrelevant because everyone has the same problem and the skill is in adapting to the circumstances - the driver drives their way around the problem, the team plan around it and the designers do the same.
The tyres clearly arent that rubbish, Vettel broke the lap record. I wouldnt listen to Webber, he isnt happy unless he is moaning, but then what driver would want to have their already difficult job harder? No sense asking them.
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>> The tyres clearly arent that rubbish, Vettel broke the lap record.
Then was helpless to hang onto the lead. The tyres go from good to extremely bad much too quickly. My guess is that none of the drivers like the things and the teams don't either. They are a step too far.
But I don't expect you to agree. Matter of taste really.
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Look, Hamilton, that hard charging, tyre mashing racer managed to catch on pretty quickly, ignore all the behests and pleading from his team to godamn slow down, and put on a spectacular show, because he realised that the quali time may not count so much now, and having some coin in hand on race day might.
For far too long, pole has been king and ruined the spectacle. At last a race is not first to pole first to flag.
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So if the teams and the drivers don't like them how is the sport stuck with them? Something to with the man with the toupee who calls the shots perhaps?
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Its not a matter of "being stuck with them". Its the same for everyone. About the only thing that is.
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Yes but if the drivers and teams don't like them why are they being used? Do they have no say in the running of THEIR sport or is is just down to the man who holds the money bags? If there is no choice then they are stuck with them, within the normal interpetation of English.
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And where do you get them from? you dont just place an order of blackcircles.com.
The last tyre supplier pulled out.
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I would have thought that a multi billion dollar industry would have put the whole tyre thing out to tender. The constructors have a choice of engines and all things mechanical, without any complaints this is not a level playing field; let the manufacturers make their own tyre arragements, within a set of regulation re tread depth and dimensions. How hard can it be? Something to with Bernie's financial interests perhaps?
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Michelin pulled out, Bridgestone pulled out, Have you any idea how much it costs to produce F1 tyres, in small quantities?
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 17 Apr 11 at 20:56
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No I haven't but I am sure the F1 circus could afford it if they wanted to! They can afford to produce cars in very small quantities.
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Well they cant and they dont, so its a non argument. Same way as they cant make petrol, or drill for oil.
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It isn't an argument - it is a discussion! They don't NEED to make petrol or drill for oil, other people do it for them and there is enough of it around, at the moment.
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So they don't need to make "rubber" then do they. And as only one maker is prepared to do it, you have answered your own question.
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I am not asking a question! They need to source a supply of "Fit for purpose" tyres and they have the money sloshing around the F1 system to do it.
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>> I am not asking a question! They need to source a supply of "Fit for
>> purpose" tyres and they have the money sloshing around the F1 system to do it.
>>
>>
Apart from FOM ("Bernie's" outfit), who if anyone else makes money from F1?
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>>
>> Apart from FOM ("Bernie's" outfit), who if anyone else makes money from F1?
>>
The teams, broadly they charge sponsors X and spend Y hence the directors are/will be millionaires.
Most if not all sponsors get a return on their investement.
The employees, from drivers and designers making millions to engineers making a very good living.
Numerous component and service suppliers.
There are very few losers, assuming the paying public are happy with the specatcle then there are probably no losers.
Its all about adding value.
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>> The employees, from drivers and designers making millions to engineers making a very good living.
>>
Granted that the people earning wages as a result of F1 activities get a net benefit. Apart from FOM, it is hard to prove if anyone else makes any profit.
Here is a slightly outdated explanation of how the money flows in to FOM
www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/money-in-f1.jpg
Pirelli costs
www.yallaf1.com/2011/01/20/pirelli-say-tyre-price-hikes-not-related-to-f1/
Last edited by: John H on Mon 18 Apr 11 at 10:36
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>> how much it costs to produce F1 tyres, in small quantities?
I doubt if it's anything to do with money. Someone pays for the tyres somehow and the basic corporate advertising value of supplying F1 is immense: Name writ large on exciting occasions in front of audiences of billions, yes please, we'll have a bit of that.
It's more likely they pulled out when they got tired of being messed around... ordered to make crap tyres for example.
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>> >> how much it costs to produce F1 tyres, in small quantities?
>>
>> I doubt if it's anything to do with money. Someone pays for the tyres somehow
>> and the basic corporate advertising value of supplying F1 is immense: Name writ large on
>> exciting occasions in front of audiences of billions, yes please, we'll have a bit of
>> that.
Clearly forgot America, exploding unsafe tyres, non race, shame heaped upon Michelin?
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Mistakes and disasters just occur sometimes. Doesn't put giant corporations off chucking a handful of millions in some promising promotional direction.
I agree corporations can be astonishingly wimpish and thin-skinned. It's decadent behaviour on their part. Fortune favours the brave as any fule kno.
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>> Mistakes and disasters just occur sometimes. Doesn't put giant corporations off chucking a handful of
>> millions in some promising promotional direction.
>>
>> I agree corporations can be astonishingly wimpish and thin-skinned. It's decadent behaviour on their part.
>> Fortune favours the brave as any fule kno.
The commercial world is littered with failed brave corporations.
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>> A driver works with the team, they dont just turn up at quali and race
>> day and drive the car, they help develop it, fine tune it, make it work
>> better. Its too easy to assume its the team making it all happen - without
>> the drivers input, how successful would a team be?
I think the drivers lot is a hard one, especially nowadays. The cars are easier to drive, but they have to be the frontman in terms of advertising and PR. They have to be more careful about what they say in interviews. More is expected of them. Either that , or people like Senna and Prost did what they wanted to whoever they wanted because they didn't care about the consequences.
>> The rate of tyre wear is rather irrelevant because everyone has the same problem and
>> the skill is in adapting to the circumstances - the driver drives their way around
>> the problem, the team plan around it and the designers do the same.
Once the tyres are worn, you can't really drive around the problem. It's simple, you've got no grip so you're slower - the only thing you can do is defend your position for as long as possible until the race is finished or until you pit. I agree though that suspension set up can make the tyres work better for longer - something that Red Bull seem to be very good at.
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>>Once the tyres are worn, you can't really drive around the problem<<
You can manage the tyres, otherwise you wouldnt hear so many team radio messages encouraging the drivers to do so. Sure they wear out, but the driver has a degree of control over by how much, how fast.
>>I think the drivers lot is a hard one, especially nowadays <<
And the financial rewards for those who are successful are adequate. They arent charity workers, I rather want to see them work insanely hard for the many millions they earn.
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In the lower ranks some of the drivers have to pay for their seats.
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. I wouldnt listen to
>> Webber, he isnt happy unless he is moaning,
I didn't notice Webber moaning much this weekend. After qualifying his interview was a non-event, which is hardly surprising given the technical issues the car had. He said something after the race along the lines of "maybe I should always start at the back with three sets of options as it seemed quite a good strategy" which I thought quite humourous.
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some serious thoughts about blowing it all on qualifying is certainly being thought about in teams right now I should think.
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>> Cheddar I am not up to speed on this. I thought everybody had the same
>> tyres or are you and Webber referring to the way in which the teams choose
>> to use them?
>>
PP, its a matter of the false impression given when two cars of similar performance are in fact performing so differently because they are of different compound tyres or one car has done perhaps 5 laps more on its tyres that the other.
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I was staying in the same hotel in Milan as Paul Hembery of Pirelli last year, actually we had a number of beers and were talking about football as well as motorsport, he told me that they were doing F1 well before it was announced.
Yes it costs a fortune though it is great publicity.
They have done a great job so far though despite it being a great race today the spectacle is not quite right yet.
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>> PP, its a matter of the false impression given when two cars of similar performance
>> are in fact performing so differently because they are of different compound tyres or one
>> car has done perhaps 5 laps more on its tyres that the other.
*IF*, as you seem keen to do, you take a single brief moment in race time snapshot. You conveniently forget that a race is 2 hours or 200 miles (about 55-65 laps) and everyone has the same tyres and the same qty of tyres. Its a level playing field.
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 17 Apr 11 at 22:11
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Yes its a level playing field across the course of a race though better to see proper racing like the first 20 or so laps, where all the front runners were on the same type and age of tyre, than the false picture given by the apparent ease that, for instance, Hamilton took Vettel and Webber sythed through the field.
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Oh I see, so 20 laps is level and 60 laps isnt?
And they were not all on the same tyre BTW.
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I think you know what I mean Z, and the first 8 or so were on the same tyres at the start.
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Same rules, same opportunities. The race result is what matters because that is the end goal for the teams, not their position during the race.
The cars and drivers are different, you cant standardise them and it would be massively unfair to standardise the rules any more than they already are. With the current set up, they can tune their car and strategy to the driver and car. Last thing we need is a communist approach to F1 - look how A1 GP did, or didnt...
Truth is, at the start of a race, you dont know what will happen and that makes it exciting for the viewer, the funding for this comes from the viewer, so the longer they can keep us tuned in and viewing the advertising, the more successful the sport is and the more money there is to go around.
I for one have no desire to watch Vettel or Hamilton or anyone else drive off into the sunset for the whole year without much effort, there would be no point watching it for the racing if it was a statistical forgone conclusion. Its the variables and how each team and driver handle them which make it so interesting to watch.
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a good analysis here:
www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2011/04/17/2011-chinese-grand-prix-analysis/
In the interactive charts, untick all except Hamilton Massa and Alonso to see how they compared.
Until lap 12, Lewis was faster then the Ferrais, but then between lap 12 and 14, just before Lewis's first stop, something happened which was not shown on screen and Massa overtook Lewis, and Alonso overtook both Massa and Lewis. Lap15 was then Lewis's first pit stop.
Last edited by: John H on Mon 18 Apr 11 at 10:21
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Yes Massa was following Hamilton and caught and past him, Alonso got past Massa and Hamilton as they pitted, Massa finished 15 secs ahead of Alonso despite being on the same strategy.
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>>
>> Yes Massa was following Hamilton and caught and past him, Alonso got past Massa and
>> Hamilton as they pitted, Massa finished 15 secs ahead of Alonso despite being on the
>> same strategy.
>>
According to the very short visual clip on TV, and the lap chart and race progress chart on F1fanatic, Alonso got past both Hamilton and Massa early sometime during lap 14 to 15, much before those two pitted on lap 15.
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McLaren's principal race engineer Phil Prew has revealed that the team went into the Chinese Grand Prix with the intention of making only two pitstops.
Whitmarsh explains what happened
"Whitmarsh also said Button should have stopped a lap earlier, something that cost him and Hamilton valuable time.
"It cost Jenson position and it cost him time," said Whitmarsh. "Within the stop itself it cost over two seconds and it cost a position, the fact that he stopped a lap later than he should have done as well cost him time, and it cost Lewis time and it cost Lewis track position as well, in that last lap was when Massa got by and he should have stopped by then.
"It was pretty calamitous, simple way of looking at it, we were first and second and we were whatever fifth and sixth [actually seventh] after the first stops, so at that point we knew we had to do something different. That partly prompted the view that we had to change strategy. In the end, that would be the right way to go."
So, thanks to Button not coming in at the right time, Lewis being delayed by one lap, and getting his tyres shot, and then Massa getting past him; all this prompted McLaren to cahnge to 3 stop strategy.
Last edited by: John H on Mon 18 Apr 11 at 17:45
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The lap chart on F1.com indicates that Massa an Hamilton pitted alowing Alonso past, also I recall seeing a brief clip of Massa in front of Hamilton with Alonso still behind, Massa then came out of his second stop well in front of Alonso who had then also pitted twice.
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>>Crikey what a race. Easily the best of the season so far and it would have to be some race to top it.
>>It was a great race all round, worth watching all of it, if they held the whole season in China I wouldnt complain, its clearly a great track for racing.
>>Excellent race. As Brundle and Coultard said,
Interesting to watch on TV but what about at the GP ?
Trying to follow the happenings when at the GP must be very difficult unless you have the BBC commentary in your ear.
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When you go to the race, you have the live local radio commentary, (in your ear under your ear defenders!) and you have the big screens to watch.
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...but if you want to follow a race it's still much easier to actually watch it on TV. Much as I love going racing, it's more for the atmosphere and sheer "being there" experience than knowing exactly what's going on on the track.
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>>it's more for the atmosphere and sheer "being there" experience than knowing >>exactly what's going on on the track.
>>
Next year...Austin, Texas. Domestic Financial Director has agreed it...and my mate lives 160 miles away in Houston, which is a handy base.
Haven't been to a race since Silverstone 1993...for all the reasons stated above i.e. you see more on the t.v.
Looking forward to it, the e-mails form the site i've signed up to have me believe it'll be impressive..and I note MotoGP has signed up to the same circuit.
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Sensational stuff. Jason Plato went off in the second race, at something over 100 mph and rolled his car three times. In the post race interview he declared the car to be £250K worth of scrap - engine moved in the chassis, roll cage bent and no undamaged panels = no chance of being in the 3rd race.
The team worked like mad, other teams pitched in to help and the car was back on the track within an hour and Plato fought it thru to 6th! The man has round objects of titanium!
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Very spectacular incident after Pluto's car hit that raised grass bank...:-)
The incredible efficiency of the teams behind the drivers is beyond praise - perhaps they could pass on a few tips to our local garages' employees.....?
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You can't believe a word he says though. He's a businessman after all.
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Not much to do with Bernie though. He sold most of the F1 rights to the current private equity owners. They will sell at some point because that's what they bought it for.
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Renault driver Robert Kubica to leave hospital soon
news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula_one/13161731.stm
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Set your PVR, BTCC ITV4 starts now.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 2 May 11 at 01:33
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Nice one, after Platos multiple roll at Donnigton last time out, the Chevrolet Silverline team have placed their logo upside down on the side of the car!
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 2 May 11 at 01:34
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I think I followed Plato on teh A34 a week or so back. Porsche, number plate P1ATO. Tired getting alongside for a gander but he must've thought I was paparazzi the way he took the racing line at roundabouts, leaving me not much space! :-)
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 2 May 11 at 01:34
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Should have pretended you were Matt Neil, and given him a solid strategic tap on a rear quarter, spinning him out.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 2 May 11 at 01:34
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I watched the Moto GP earlier.
Good racing by real racers.
The commentators, particularly the Aussie bloke, come up with some witty lines.
Race is not too long and the riders seem like sensible, down-to-earth guys.
No Suzi Perry any more, but you can't have everything.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 2 May 11 at 01:34
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Sepang - Armel Coussine
