7dayshop and the like to a basic camera kit for under 20 notes, probably even cheaper on eBay:-
www.7dayshop.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=777_1&products_id=110354
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I have a Dog-Cam kit which works well enough.
BBC didn't see fit to obscure the registration plate of Silver Van Driver..!
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Strange that another Mr. Porter (Martin Porter, 48, a barrister, no less) took to using a similar device in earlier report. (I wonder why Ben Porter in Pugugly's link does not deserve the "Mr" tag.)
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-11935490
>> BBC didn't see fit to obscure the registration plate of Silver Van Driver..!
It was obscured in the morning news TV report.
Last edited by: John H on Tue 1 Feb 11 at 11:54
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Slightly irelevant to this article but after buying a road bike with dropped handlebars last year, and absolutely hating it especially the vulverability I felt in town traffic with it, I don't understand why anyone would want to use one for commuting through London.
I much prefer my Hybrid, upright handlebars, upright position with , in my opinion, much better awareness of what's around you. Leading with your arms rather than your head!
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Serves him right,
He was riding that bike like he owns all the road, Once he pays road tax he can ride in the middle of the lane, till then he can stick to the sides.
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I've a tendency to thump the side of any vehicle that comes that close.
Zeddo. Both my cars are taxed. If I choose to take my bike instead are you saying I can use all the road? Many cyclists will ride a good metre or so out from the kerb to give themselves that space to move into if they're squeezed!
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>> Zeddo. Both my cars are taxed. If I choose to take my bike instead are
>> you saying I can use all the road?
Yes, pay tax on the bike.
Many cyclists will ride a good metre
>> or so out from the kerb to give themselves that space to move into if
>> they're squeezed!
Which he refused to use or do.
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He was certainly riding that bike in a *you can't touch me cuz I've got a camera* way. He could have avoided the whole incident riding in a more relaxed manner with better regard to everything going on around him.
There are videos like this all over youtube from cyclists who seem to enjoy the confrontation.
I make those comments as a lifetime on/off road cyclist.
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Looking at it again, that cyclist is a complete idiot and brought it all himself. Screaming and shouting, deliberately riding into danger instead of braking and getting out of it., banging on the side of the van.
In fact he was typical of cyclists who think the rest of the world should get out of their way,
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I made the mistake of banging on the side of a white van whilst cycling through the centre of Netanya - the town in Israel where our holiday flat is. What I did not know was that the driver was a security guard and carried a pistol. I got chased through the streets - him driving, my cycling until I got my phone out and filmed him approaching me as I shouted "Police" in Hebrew.
He backed away when a crowd gathered but he wasn't happy. I got a telling off from Espadrille when I got home!
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>>banging on the side of the van.
Let's assume a cyclist can reach three feet out from a bike. My handlebars are just over two feet wide. That means the passing van would need to be less than two feet from the bike.
The highway code (rule 163) states 'give motorcyclists, cyclists and horse riders at least as much room as you would when overtaking a car. tinyurl.com/5eoz37
It looks to me the van was clearly turning in on the bike as they turned left. Similarly the van was leaving absolutely no space for the bike as they approached the parked car.
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>> >>banging on the side of the van.
>> Let's assume a cyclist can reach three feet out from a bike. My handlebars are
>> just over two feet wide. That means the passing van would need to be less
>> than two feet from the bike.
... or that the cyclist didn't defensively move over when he could, or that he moved nearer to the van to bash it ...
However, see my post of Tue 1 Feb 11 12:30
Last edited by: FotheringtonTomas on Tue 1 Feb 11 at 18:15
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>> Looking at it again, that cyclist is a complete idiot and brought it all himself.
>> Screaming and shouting, deliberately riding into danger instead of braking and getting out of it.,
>> banging on the side of the van.
>>
>> In fact he was typical of cyclists who think the rest of the world should
>> get out of their way,
>>
I 100% agree.
All road users should use give and take, If a driver is overtaken the highway code states, that they should allow the overtake, and not accelerate to prevent it.
IF the cyclist had left off pedalling for one stroke, the van would have safely passed, all all would have been well.
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... (I wonder why Ben Porter in Pugugly's link does not deserve the "Mr" tag.)...
Because he was only referred to once.
The classic journalism style is:
First reference: first name/second name.
Second reference: Mr/Mrs/Ms, then second name'.
So in the barrister story, the first reference is 'Martin Porter, 48', and in second and subsequent references it is 'Mr Porter'.
In the cyclist story the first reference is 'Ben Porter', but there is no second reference.
If there was, it would have been 'Mr Porter'.
An exception is convicted criminals in court cases who are often referred to in second and subsequent references as 'second name only' because it is felt they do not deserve the courtesy of a 'Mr'.
Of course, none of the above rules are set in stone, and they vary from publication to publication.
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I saw that on the BBC (crap) breakfast programme this morning.
The cyclist clearly put himself in danger by his riding. I would not ride my motorbike like that, or drive like that. It does not excuse the van driver's driving, though.
As to the fracas, I'd be tempted should someone bash on the side of my vehicle like that.
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Oh dear, he looks like the typical cycling fanatic who breaks all the rules himself whilst blaming the motorist for everything.
I bet he conveniently 'loses' any footage of him crossing red lights, ignoring pedestrian crossings, cycling along pavements etc etc.
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Well I ride daily in Central London and have done since 1999. I cannot claim to be incident free but I certainly don't get into confrontations with anything like the regularity of some of the helmet cam folks who post on C4P's cycling counterpart sites. OTOH my rides are within zone 1 where the traffic speed is much lower than in the suburbs. But I also observe my surroundings & don't pass nearside unless I'm 100% certain moots are staionary
The guy who features on the BBC prog posts as Benborp and does seem awfully accident prone. But I understand they also showed another clip of a Scot's guy's near miss with a petrol tanker - a real soiled keks job.
And Zero old boy I know you're being deliberately provocative but riding out at least 1500mm form the kerb is a no brainer. Keeping out of the way of the cars puts you out of mind as well as out of sight. Close passes, left hooks across the bows etc are much more likley if you're a kerb sucker as are peds steping off the pavement 'cos you're out of their visual field. You've no escape route to the left becuase of the kerb or worse a safety fence. Plus the gutter is likley to have bad paving, slippy thermoplastic paint, dangerous gullies and rubbish including broken glass.
It's called riding primary. It's approved by the semi official guide Cyclecraft and I'm carrying on using it!!!!
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I don't recollect our furious cyclist ever turning his head and looking behind him.
As an occasional cyclist, I have a mirror on the handlebar end.
I don't rely on drivers behind me having to keep me alive.
It just seems typical of the lycra lout types who aren't prepared to slow down for anything and wobble about, if they stop, at the lights, in case they have to put a foot on the tarmac.
Ted
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The guy who rode into the side of the silver van had it coming to him. The two who got hit and nearly hit at the roundabout clearly were at no fault. The tanker incident must have been really scary.
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>>The guy who rode into the side of the silver van had it coming to him.
That's why the van driver was fined "several hundred pounds"?
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...That's why the van driver was fined "several hundred pounds"?...
Steady Tom, you're in danger of confusing justice with Justice. :)
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>> >>The guy who rode into the side of the silver van had it coming to him.
>> That's why the van driver was fined "several hundred pounds"?
The rider was rather reckless of his own safety.
The van driver was fined not for his driving, but because he got out and dotted the chap who banged on his van.
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Most road rage incidents require both parties to decide to be offended.
I drive a lot and I cycle a lot but in neither case do I find myself in conflict with other road users of any ilk very much if at all. That's not to say I don't daily see behaviour from all the different categories which is more than worthy of criticism.
Difference is I can't be bothered to react to them. By and large leopards don't change their spots if you shout at them or blow your horn at them. They just get angry or flustered and even more unstable. Best policy is to assume everyone in your vicinity is stupid, a psychopath or both and then drive, cycle or walk on the roads near them accordingly.
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>
>> It's called riding primary. It's approved by the semi official guide Cyclecraft and I'm carrying
>> on using it!!!!
Its called being in the way.
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>> Its called being in the way.
Tuff. Wait a sec and come on by. But I'll only pass you again in the next jam.
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>>I bet he conveniently 'loses' any footage of him crossing red lights, ignoring pedestrian crossings, cycling along pavements etc etc.
Show me the footage and I'll be at the front of the queue to criticise him. This shows him being carved up.
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i notice he showed more than due caution and diligence at the traffic lights as he was being filmed
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If the lycra lout normally rides like that he is on a looser, a few tons of steel beats a camera in an impact any day. Most people learn as a child that pain hurts.
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>> If the lycra lout normally rides like that he is on a looser,
on a looser? What's loose on his bike?
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Lot of prejudice being shown here. Pity.
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>> Lot of prejudice being shown here. Pity.
>>
It's all down to attitude, anyone who thinks they have a "right" to a particular part of the road deserves all they get. Roads work by give and take and that includes Lycra louts.
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It includes everyone who uses them.
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...It includes everyone who uses them...
Humph,
Does this absence of prejudice to all users extend to swimming pools and mountain biking tracks?
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There's tenuous for you. Find another straw to clutch.
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...tenuous...Find another straw to clutch...
Eh?
You've posted about how irritating you find swimmers and mountain bikers who don't use the public facility in the way you do, and seem to think they should.
No doubt the posing swimmers and bikers are irritated by those keen types such as you who hammer around.
The cyclist and the van driver are in similar conflict over the use of a public facility, in this case a road.
But it could be a mountain biking track or swimming pool.
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Alas, cycling has of late been hijacked by the activists and the aggressive.
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That is also a pity.
Some people just love to be in a tribe don't they? Us and them, them and us. Like I mentioned earlier, I'm a driver, a pedestrian and a cyclist at different times. I don't see any conflict of interest and nor do I suddenly go through some kind of personality change depending on my method of progress.
As a driver I try not to run over cyclists and pedestrians. As a cyclist or pedestrian I try not to get run over. It's not really very hard to grasp and as a basic principle works quite well.
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That prejudice wouldn't exist if every cyclist above the age of 12 had to pay a nominal fee of £10 per year to use the roads, and produce a certificate of proficiency before being allowed to obtain the first one.
And before anyone remarks upon it, yes, I think horses should as well, but with the riders proficiency, not the horse, of course.
Pat
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>> That prejudice wouldn't exist if every cyclist above the age of 12 had to pay
>> a nominal fee of £10 per year to use the roads, and produce a certificate
>> of proficiency before being allowed to obtain the first one.
>>
>> And before anyone remarks upon it, yes, I think horses should as well, but with
>> the riders proficiency, not the horse, of course.
>>
>> Pat
>>
And have compulsory third party insurance.
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Behave yourselves ! We have enough rules already.
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If cyclists can't behave rules will happen.
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And the world gets a little more regulated and unpleasant. Conflict between different types of road users remains unusual but because the results of when it does happen are highly visible it is being dragged into the spotlight by those who would have laws and rules for everything or those who feel the need to be champions of a cause. Neither form of extremism has much to commend it.
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>> And have compulsory third party insurance.
Everybody should have third party insurance; you don't need a bike to do accidental damage. Actually of course most of us have 3rd party insurance as part of our household policy. Cyclists usually bolster that by being members of CTC, LCC etc.
And as for Pat's idea £10 won't even cover the admin costs. And do I have to wear my permit number on my day-glo gilet??
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" But I understand they also showed another clip of a Scot's guy's near miss with a petrol tanker - a real soiled keks job. "
That was a seriously nasty incident that could of had an horrendous outcome, at least the cyclist stopped ! unlike the numpty banging on the side of the van !! ok the van was in the wrong but the arrogance of the cyclist just amplified the situation !
I reckon the tanker driver was on his phone as he never saw that cyclist
" If the tamker had of been empty may be it would of rung like a bell if he had banged on the side ! " lol
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No excuse but the cyclist may have been in the tanker drivers blind spot caused by his mirrors.
I don't believe he would deliberatly mow down a cyclist, it is a real pain to get them out from between the double wheels.
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I've seen Magnatom's clip elsewhere. The tanker driver entered the r/bout and presumably saw the cyclist. He failed to take account of the degree to which his tank would track tighter tan the tractor. Once the incident was set up then yes, mirrors might have helped though I doubt it given the speed.
The scandal is that the PF failed to prosecute.
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>> No excuse but the cyclist may have been in the tanker drivers blind spot caused
>> by his mirrors.
>>
Here is a link to that incident. (beware swearing)
www.youtube.com/user/magnatom#p/u/0/0fqACT1jNV0
take note of the speed and positioning as the cyclist entered the roundabout.
I would think it would have been very easy for the driver to have missed seeing the cycle given the speed, and the angles that both roads join the roundabout.
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>>unlike the numpty banging on the side of the van !!
>> ok the van was in the wrong but the arrogance of the cyclist just amplified
>> the situation !
>>
The van misjudged just how fast the bike was moving and then started to edge left pushing the cyclist towards the kerb. I agree that banging on the van is likely to inflame but even heavy braking may not recover this sort of situation and it happens far too often.
Almost caught myself tonight. I was in a bike lane that feeds into the advance stop box at a busy junction (Gordon St & Euston Rd). Motor traffic moving alongside also positioning for the lights included a private hire taxi. As soon as I was behind his B pillar he started to edge further left impinging on the bike lane. A shout and a burst of acceleration on the Brommy got me back in front of him but if he'd done it at higher real but same relative speeds I'd have been stuffed.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 1 Feb 11 at 21:49
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>> A shout and a burst of acceleration on the Brommy got me back in front
>> of him but if he'd done it at higher real but same relative speeds I'd
>> have been stuffed.
>>
>>
So you are a shouty "me in front" cyclist as well. Why not stop and avoid, he had probably not seen you.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 1 Feb 11 at 22:11
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I get the impression that many people drive defensively but as soon as they get on a bike they have a death wish.
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ON, I do hope you know that I generally have the greatest respect for your measured views, but on this occasion I would just ask you to consider if you might be over generalising with that last comment.
Most cyclists are just normal people who happen at that moment to be on their bikes. They are not another species. Some idiots give them a bad name just as some drivers are equally to be criticised.
As I mentioned above I walk, cycle and drive and try to ensure that during the course of all thiose activities I don't endanger or inconvenience myself or others and I believe from the evidence of my own eyes that plenty of others have that attitude too.
Bad roadcraft is not limited to one group. Singling out cyclists for criticism is naive at best and at least unfair.
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>>Bad roadcraft is not limited to one group.>>
I agree, however a disproportionate number of them ignore pedestrian crossings, red traffic lights and one way streets, etc. and get abusive when their progress is impeded.
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Source of these statistics is?
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>> Source of these statistics is?
>>
My observation, I actually see cyclists and try to avoid them.
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Ah good old selective perception.
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>> Ah good old selective perception.
>>
Not too selective, I can see them and their manner of progres whether I am driving, walking, or riding my bike.
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>> as soon as they get on a bike they have a death wish.
Well, as soon as their wish is fulfilled there will be one less to worry about.
A lot of grief for those left behind though - selfish, in an odd kind of way.
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>> Well, as soon as their wish is fulfilled there will be one less to worry about.
Charming
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>> as soon as they get on a bike they have a death wish.
Not a death wish, just a desire to be seen and acknowledged.
Intuition says keep safe by the kerb, don't get in the way of the cars and you won't be hurt. In reality it don't work that way. Up by the kerb you're out of the way and out of sight and mind. Expect to be close passed, left hooked, have pedestrians step out in front and to have no leftward space to move into if it goes completely titsup.
Being assertive & riding high in the road makes you visible. Car drivers take account of your presence, peds see you cos your far enough out to be in their scan and you avoid the debris, slippy line paint, broken glass and other carp that's in the gutter.
Just keep watching out!!!
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>> So you are a shouty "me in front" cyclist as well. Why not stop and
>> avoid, he had probably not seen you.
If you're in motorway lane 1 and a lane two HGV moves left as soon as the tractor passes is your reaction a calm stop & avoid?
He came from behind, it was broad daylight & I was wearing a dayglo gilet, It beggars belief that he didn't see me; behind & forgotten is more like it.
Shouting was a substitute for the decent bell there's no space for on the bars of a six speed (2x3) Brommy.
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Watching some more of that guys videos I am struggling to defend some of his antics and that is coming from a fellow cyclisy.
Yes the tanker and van incident are bad but I just get the impression that the guy is looking for confrontation to justify his youtube site and camera. Indeed he is probably sitting googling this thread as we speak.
The arguments about road users and respect and all the rest don't warrant comment, but some of those video clips suggest to me that he is cycling at a speed and he does not want to lose that momentum and therefore is maybe taking the wrong decisions.
There is one on his site where he accuses a Skoda driver (might even have been beige) for not giving him enough room when overtaking. But to me the cyclist was going full pelt in the middle of the road trying to avoid the possibility of any parked cars maybe opening a door or whatever. However if it was me I would be going slower ready to brake or certainly take evasive action, not just cycle down the middle of the road.
And he certainly seems keen on confronting everyone who has cut him up or did wrong in his eyes. No surprise that if you do this often enough, someone will lamp him.
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...No surprise that if you do this often enough, someone will lamp him...
It isn't, but it's also what this guy wants.
Every now and again, a single issue campaign loony pops up.
Someone who becomes obsessed with a topic, to the extent they create and provoke situations to 'prove' their point.
There is usually a barely-concealed sub text of running for office or other form of self-promotion.
This to my mind is such an instance.
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>>Shouting was a substitute for the decent bell
Shouting's better than a bell. You can see some pedestrian's (those on the cycle path) brain cells move at the speed of treacle if you use the bell.
I notice the trend of courier cyclists to use a whistle seems to have diminished.
Last edited by: bathtub tom {p} on Tue 1 Feb 11 at 22:57
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Ordered one of the little cameras mentioned in post no. 2.
It arrived this morning and it's on it's USB charging atm. Looks a well made item.
The operating instructions leave a lot to be guessed at, being the usual translation from Chinese to English via Ulan Bator !
I've bookmarked the video in the advert so I'll have a proper watch of it later.
I didn't get it specifically to do motoring stuff although I'll clip it on the bike next run out and see how it performs.
I did save the life of a cyclist the other day, although no certificate from the Royal Humane Society has arrived yet ! Going the same direction as me, he swerved to his right, into my path, to avoid a puddle....I anticipated it and was ready on the brake.
Silly beggar....if he'd had mudguards he could have just gone through it !
Wet lycra pants or sudden death ? A no-brainer !
Ted
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And what size of pothole was the puddle hiding????
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None, newish road surface....could have at least looked round !
Ted
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Just been having a play around with the little camera.
Pretty good picture. Tried a few clips in the Palace of Pleasureat the end of the garden.
Heres one, hope it comes out ok on here.
s479.photobucket.com/albums/rr152/1400ted/pa7/?action=view¤t=SUNP0014.mp4
I used the windscreen mounting kit, suckered on to a full tin of travel sweets and set the angle to what I thought. No viewfinder on this camera.
A bit limited in this application by not having a pause facility. You have to stop filming to change trains ,for instance, and they get saved as separate clips.
It's small enough to sit on a wagon and film the train as it moves.
Picture seems a bit ' greeny, to ne. Close up definition is very good for it's size and it takes very good close up stills. much crisper than my Samsung camera.
So there we are, I give it a good thumbs-up for 17 quid !
Ted
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That tram line at the bottom of your garden is more extensive than I imagined. ;-)
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Soundtrack was a bit drear Ted. Wouldn't something like Coronation Scot be more appropriate?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lwab4b7_7qA
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Clever stuff, Ted.
Picture looks sharp enough, but there is a bit of tint as you say.
Someone on here might know what's causing it.
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Drear, Sibelius 1st Symphony ?
It was on in the other room...should have paused it.
I did a video of my prefious layout with a proper Videocam. It had a remote control and a swivelling screen.
The sound of the trains was very effective and noisy. You could set the cam at a position where you could not actually be, turn the screen towards you to set up the shot and use the remote.
I used the pause. First get the train running out of shot then press record. When the train was out of shot but still hoisy, the pause was used, anther train set up and moving and recording commenced. That was, continuity of sound was good all the way through.
It's on Video tape but I might transfer it to DVD one day.
Ted
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Handy bit of kit - spamcan61
