Since the EU, in their infinite wisdom, have banned frosted/opal conventional bulbs, has anyone tried converting the clear ones, which are still availabe (for now)?
I've considered dunking them in hydrofluoric acid, which remains an option, but thought it worth asking the assembled company here. I have a feeling that some white-but-not-too-opaque substance like old-fashioned whitewash might do the trick, but does anyone know what is (or was) used by the manufacturers?
Thanks
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Frosted 100w bulbs are still on sale if you know where to look, (small independent hardware shops).
I saw several packs of ten today.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Wed 26 Jan 11 at 21:57
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Why have they been banned?
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>>Why have they been banned?>>
See:
tinyurl.com/4bj2qpp
And there's more:
tinyurl.com/mrc5hk
One of the reasons for the almost crazy giving away or low priced energy saving bulbs in recent times - I have dozens under the stairs..:-)
You can still get the 150w bulbs from electrical retailers who sell them for "industrial" purposes....
Last edited by: Stuartli on Wed 26 Jan 11 at 22:17
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>> has anyone tried converting the clear ones, which are still availabe (for now)?
No. There's probably something you could spray on, though - you can get "coloured" bulbs which are dunked or sprayed.
>> I've considered dunking them in hydrofluoric acid, which remains an option
Not an option I'd like to take, at all.
, but thought it worth
>> I have a feeling that some white-but-not-too-opaque substance like old-fashioned
>> whitewash might do the trick, but does anyone know what is (or was) used
It was inside the bulb. I don't know what it was, but it washes off in water.
You can buy pearl (for that is what they're called) light bulbs all over the place. A search on the 'net will get you them. Popping into an electrician's supplier will also get you some.
Than you can get them doesn't mean you ought, though. What's wrong with lovely sparkly clear bulbs - most people use with lamp shades, anyway. The quality of light is much nicer - more candle-like and clear.
Come to that, compact fluorescent are fine, and do save electricity. You can get decorative, globe, and other sorts: bit.ly/i0eYwA, for instance. You could also try "daylight" bulbs, which are much nicer than "ordinary" ones.
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We have done without a light in the landing because a 60w one would be completly pointless. We have always used 150w ones. I might try and get hold of a 150w if they still exist :).
I am not at all convinced these cheap energy saving bulbs are a good idea. People may have only experienced the humble 11w and end up buying more lamps to make up the difference.
It has got so bad that I now carry a lamp with me in car for doing jobs.
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Wed 26 Jan 11 at 22:25
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>>I might try and get hold of a 150w if they still exist :).>>
They were the first to be taken off the market. Some local shops that had some stock left sold them for up to £1.50 each.
However, as I stated earlier, you can still get them from outlets such as trade electrical as they will continue to be sold for "industrial" use.
There are, of course, the low energy equivalents (they are 30w), but cost quite a bit. See:
www.low-energy-lighting.com/bright-bulbs.htm
tinyurl.com/5wex4h8
www.mygreenlighting.co.uk/replacement_bulbs/bayonet_cap_bulbs_bc_b22/373.html
Last edited by: Stuartli on Wed 26 Jan 11 at 22:46
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Yep looked into them before. Just no way any of us can pay that for a bulb at the moment. We can manage without, we have a hall light, and the bathroom light is enough to light the landing if the door is open (3 x halogen downlighters).
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Thanks, FT, for the 'First Light' link. The Bell G9 conversion kits look useful, especially for 'golf-ball' enthusiasts like me!
What really irks me about the whole business is that it is predicated on the global warming nonsense that blames everything on man-made CO2, for which the only evidence is an assortment of computer models that were programmed to produce the intended result (see Andrew Montford's 'Hockey Stick Illusion' for details).
Governments, so pleased to have an excuse to introduce new taxes, have let go all their critical faculties and now charge us for anything that produces CO2 (VED being a good example) and the EU, not content to let market forces do their stuff, which they should do if low-energy bulbs are any good, insist of banning things for which there are no immediate replacements, and don't do any harm anyway!
Don't get me started...
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>> What really irks me about the whole business is that it is predicated on the
>> global warming nonsense that blames everything on man-made CO2,
Apart from "Global warming exists, no it doesn't, yes it does nyah nyah" sort of things, my view is that if there *could* be a problem, then technical advance should be pressed to reduce the possibility - because there will be useful spin-offs. A bit like the space programme - we don't absolutely need to do it, but it's useful. If we can reduce energy use, then why not.
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"I've considered dunking them in hydrofluoric acid,"
I wouldn't mess with hydrofluoric acid and risk horrendous slow to heal burns burns and even death for a frosted light bulb if I were you. That stuff is pretty toxic
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JBJ,
You have mail (which includes an attachment) in relation to this thread.
Rob
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Isn't hydrofluoric acid the stuff that's formed when cars burn?
Read the safety bit in any Haynes. It doesn't seem like stuff you want to mess around with.
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Since our major rebuild on kitchen and dining room, I've played the silly game and put 3 energy-savers in the new dining room ceiling fitting. A couple of weeks ago one of them failed so I took the opportunity to extract 3 x 60 watters from my stock of about 100 in the garage. I can actually read the paper now !
I use energy savers on the 2 landings and mini ones in the hall....5 bulbs, Most other fittings wont take them....thank heavens.
I have 5 or six home made lights. A six inch square of 3/4 inch ply with a bulbholder screwed on. A lead with a 13 amp plug ( usually cut off a duff appliance ) powers it up.
I dot these around when we go away, connected via timers to come on randomly after dark. Neighbour says it's very effective. Use Energy savers in those.
Ted
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It's all a stupid con - these energy savers may save some energy, but the amount of energy that goes into making them and the problems of disposing of them when they go "phut" outweigh any environmental gain.
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>> It's all a stupid con - these energy savers may save some energy, but the
>> amount of energy that goes into making them and the problems of disposing of them
>> when they go "phut" outweigh any environmental gain.
>>
Some one else who has seen though the B/S
Horrible things those 'energy savers' I have tried the, and in fact am running 2 in the house at the moment.
Tried one in the kitchen - couldn't see to cook, abd that was the most 'powerful' I could find, I currently have one in the bathroom due to needing an ES bulb there, and energy saver was the only one I had (must get a proper bulb asap as I can't see to shave!)
and one on the landing... that one must take 2 seconds to stop flickering and light, that due to be changed as we keep stubbing toes on the stairs... at least no ones fell down them yet.
All in all, I hate the things.
Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 27 Jan 11 at 10:19
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We have four R80 bulb unit in the "back kitchen" - There are 3 Ever Ready brand savers and a standard ice cap melting one - the three take ages to come to a full copulating glow-worm glow whilst the standard polar bear killer one fires up straight away - allowing you to do what you need and switch it off.
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" the standard polar bear killer"
LOL! I may use that. BTW, did you know that polar bear numbers are up?
www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=1ea8233f-14da-4a44-b839-b71a9e5df868
This is fun, too (in the sense that you have to laugh to avoid crying):
www.bishop-hill.net/blog/2011/1/24/mad-drugged-or-just-civil-servants.html
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>>We have four R80 bulb unit in the "back kitchen>>
Use three of these in the bathroom in ceiling mounts. Come on instantly, last for ages, no problems with them.
Cost is about £1 for three at the local Index/Poundstretcher store. Bought a stack to beat the EU nonsense.
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I bought a couple of these for when I was decorating the lounge and needed a bright light in these dim winter afternoons. Really impressed - They are fully dimmable too.
tinyurl.com/6z8pwda
Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 27 Jan 11 at 12:58
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>> It's all a stupid con - these energy savers may save some energy, but the
>> amount of energy that goes into making them and the problems of disposing of them
>> when they go "phut" outweigh any environmental gain.
That isn't actually true, PU. CFLs really save a lot of energy. That doesn't mean that people have to like them, but it's true. If you don't like them, try using "daylight" ones of slightly higher rating than the incandescents they replace.
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"CFLs really save a lot of energy."
Only while they're working. I have a mixture of spot and CFL's on a lighting bar in my bathroom, and they last about the same length of time, i.e. nothing like the 8000 hours claimed. Add to that the dirty manufacturing process (including mercury and electronic components that are hard to dispose of) and all the air-miles from China, and the cost/benefit analysis looks a lot less favourable.
Incandescent bulbs are cheap to make, use few resources, are usually made close to the consumer and help warm the room, especially spots, which direct radiant heat downwards. My office is noticeably warmer when the three 50W halogen spots are on, allowing me to turn down the 1.5kW heater...
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>> "CFLs really save a lot of energy."
>>
>> Only while they're working. I have a mixture of spot and CFL's on a lighting
>> bar in my bathroom, and they last about the same length of time
Then there's something wrong with the bulbs you are buying, or your electrical installation.
>> Add to that the dirty manufacturing process (including mercury and
>> electronic components that are hard to dispose of)
They can all be re-cycled. Non-integrated bulbs mean that the gubbins has to be re-cycled far less frequently, as just the glass is replaced.
>> and all the air-miles from China, and the cost/benefit analysis looks a lot less
>> favourable.
How much less favourable? What bulbs are sent by air?
>> Incandescent bulbs are cheap to make, use few resources
But far more power.
>> help warm the room, especially spots, which direct radiant heat downwards. My office
>> is noticeably warmer when the three 50W halogen spots are on, allowing me to turn
>> down the 1.5kW heater...
Even in the Summer.....
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>> "CFLs really save a lot of energy."
>>
>> Only while they're working. I have a mixture of spot and CFL's on a lighting
>> bar in my bathroom, and they last about the same length of time
Then there's something wrong with the bulbs you are buying, or your electrical installation.
> The non-CFL bulbs work all right. I suspect the CFL's don't like being switched on and off 20 times a day, or the steam. I've yet to have one last 8000 hours, though, even in areas where they are left on, which they tend to be to get round the slow warm-up, thus defeating their main object!
>> Add to that the dirty manufacturing process (including mercury and
>> electronic components that are hard to dispose of)
They can all be re-cycled. Non-integrated bulbs mean that the gubbins has to be re-cycled far less frequently, as just the glass is replaced.
>Are you telling me that each CFL is dismantled and refurbished? It seems unlikely.
>> and all the air-miles from China, and the cost/benefit analysis looks a lot less
>> favourable.
How much less favourable? What bulbs are sent by air?
>I know they're shipped by sea mainly - just a figure of speech, but the energy and materials used to make them is considerably more than for a simple incandescent. The H&S regulations make them uneconomic to manufacture in the West.
>> Incandescent bulbs are cheap to make, use few resources
But far more power.
> To run, perhaps, but not to make.
>> help warm the room, especially spots, which direct radiant heat downwards. My office
>> is noticeably warmer when the three 50W halogen spots are on, allowing me to turn
>> down the 1.5kW heater...
Even in the Summer.....
> Don't need much extra light then.. :-)
I also hate the light they give. I take a lot of photographs, and anything lit with CFL's has a horrible green tinge that even the camera's built-in white balance correction has trouble with. Not many manufacturers quote it, but there is a colour rendering index (CRI) figure that gives some idea of their spectrum. Most are around 80% while a proper halogen light is 100.
>> "CFLs really save a lot of energy."
>>
>> Only while they're working. I have a mixture of spot and CFL's on a lighting
>> bar in my bathroom, and they last about the same length of time
Then there's something wrong with the bulbs you are buying, or your electrical installation.
>> Add to that the dirty manufacturing process (including mercury and
>> electronic components that are hard to dispose of)
They can all be re-cycled. Non-integrated bulbs mean that the gubbins has to be re-cycled far less frequently, as just the glass is replaced.
>> and all the air-miles from China, and the cost/benefit analysis looks a lot less
>> favourable.
How much less favourable? What bulbs are sent by air?
>> Incandescent bulbs are cheap to make, use few resources
But far more power.
>> help warm the room, especially spots, which direct radiant heat downwards. My office
>> is noticeably warmer when the three 50W halogen spots are on, allowing me to turn
>> down the 1.5kW heater...
Even in the Summer.....
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Press "Reply" on the post that you want to reply to.
Press "Quote Original Message"
Snip bits as necessary whilst retaining context.
Add your comments where appropriate.
Not to "get at you", but the above is too complicated to make sense of.
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Sorry FT - finger trouble. Your reply to mine appears twice, the first time with extra comments by me (after a single > sign) and the second time without! I hit Ctrl V twice when composing and forgot to clean up afterwards...
My anti-CFL stance is mostly because of the compulsion from the EU - a visit to B&Q yesterday revealed that from next Tuesday they are no longer allowed to sell 60W incandescent candle and golf-ball lamps, even clear ones, even though those are precisely the ones that CFL's can't emulate because of the small sizes! The halogen equivalents are OK, if expensive, but even they aren't permitted in the frosted/pearl versions, hence my original posting.
It's the same bureaucratic mindset that creates a policy that thinks fishermen can throw out a net and only catch one particular species, and when they don't, insists that they throw the surplus away, all in the name of conservation!
Last edited by: J Bonington Jagworth on Fri 28 Jan 11 at 11:19
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I tend to agree with you. However, they've left so many loopholes that incandescent bulbs won't "die out" for a long time.
Personally, though, I use a mixture of incandescents - where I need to use them only for short times (in the loo, for instance) - and CFLs elsewhere. The "daylight" CFLs are better IMO than the "ordinary" ones. It's worth using a 15W bulb (nominal equivalence 75W incandescent) in place of 60W incandescents, as an example. This is still a reduction of 45W. Over the lifetime of 1 normal incandescent bulb (1,000 hours), the saving is about 22KWhr, which costs somewhere in between £2.5 and £5, depending on rate and unit "type" cost.
Didn't mean to sound abrupt above, BTW.
Last edited by: FotheringtonTomas on Fri 28 Jan 11 at 13:14
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"loopholes"
Still plenty on Ebay, at least!
I haven't seen many (if any) 'daylight' CFL's on general sale, although I know they exist. Presumably, they are relatively expensive? I have several fittings (as in the bathroom) where cheap CFL's sit beside incandescents, which seems are fair compromise, but only as long as the older bulbs remain available, and the CFL's are cheap. However, I gather that their price is being held down only as long as there are cheap alternatives - they will jump when the choice is narrowed to CFL or LED (not sure how long halogens will be allowed).
If you were abrupt, I didn't notice :-)
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"not sure how long halogens will be allowed"
My understanding is that the new low energy halogens which save about 30% energy against incandescents are allowed within the regulations. They are dimmable and cost around £2.50 each and would seem to be the answer where CFls are not bright enough.
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We have a few of those, and very good they are too. Can't get frosted ones, though, so presumably the EU has them in its sights. I'm tempted to try rolling them in sugar...
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Any bulb with a frosted, opal, pearl or other opaque finish - unless they are category A energy savers - have been banned since 1st September 2009.
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>> nothing like the 8000 hours claimed...
The only "CFL" family lamps I've had which ran anything near that were old style Philips things nearly the size of a pint pot (hardly compact, but gas disharge all the same).
Left on overnight in the porch they ran for several years, but they did cost a lot to buy.
Many of the newer style barely manage a year (maybe 3,000 hours)
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>>Many of the newer style barely manage a year (maybe 3,000 hours) >>
The majority of the labels seem to indicate at least 8,000 hours if used for 2.7 hours a day.
How they work the latter figure out is puzzling.
I have one on overnight in the porch and, as you say, up to a year is about the best achieved.
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>> It's all a stupid con - these energy savers may save some energy, but the
>> amount of energy that goes into making them and the problems of disposing of them
>> when they go "phut" outweigh any environmental gain.
>>
Perhaps we should refer to them as Prius bulbs.
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Thanks, CG - I do know about HF, as I used to work in glasshouses, where a dilute form of it is used to clean the glass to ensure maximum light transmission. My erstwhile boss had a nasty skin rash for years as a result...
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Thanks to all for the rapid responses. To expand slightly, the lights in question are mostly the sort that take small golf-ball bulbs, where the bulb is visible, and therefore a bit fierce if clear. I like the sparkle of clear bulbs, but the white versions give a softer light that works better in most of our fittings. Even if I liked compact fluorescents (which I don't, because of the quality of the light) there aren't any that small that give adequate output, and the ones that do look ridiculous in fittings intended for small, round bulbs.
I admit to using CFL's in closed shades and areas where they tend to get left on, like landings and sheds, but they do not seem to last or give out as much light as advertised, and I gather that their prices will only be subsidised as long as there are old-style alternatives, which are to be outlawed by the EU this year, I believe.
Next time I shall be voting UKIP...
Last edited by: J Bonington Jagworth on Wed 26 Jan 11 at 23:55
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I did, thanks PU. My reply probably crossed with your post...
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try buying 10 5 foot fluorescent light fittings for a reasonable amount of groats
impossible unless you trawl the bay
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Thought you'd fallen out with the bay.
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There's a little independent electrical supplies place on the way to school here. I bought a fluorescent tube and starter from him last year for something ridiculous like £1.83 all in. I was going to buy one then the other later if it didn't solve the problem but for less than £2 it wasn't worth two trips.
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" on the way to school here" I thought you were older Dave. :-)
John
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hes after the free school milk i bet.............
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I tried "frosting" with emulsion paint. It was too dark, discoloured over time and dropped off in bits.
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"It was too dark, discoloured over time and dropped off in bits."
I'll give that a miss, then! Thanks for the intelligence...
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Just for interest, Tesco has partnered with a major energy company, to offer a range of low energy bulbs at 10p or 20p each - some are very compact spiral style bulbs.
Bought a few of the latter today for low light output in bedside lamps etc use, but I did notice that whereas the big name brands low energy bulbs are rated A for efficiency and/or economy, these are C rated.
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OLD NAVY should get down and buy some then if they are c rated
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>> OLD NAVY should get down and buy some then if they are c rated
>>
Wrong sort of c. :-)
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"these are C rated"
I think that's just an admission by the makers that they're not quite as efficient as formerly advertised. I notice that output in lumens is now often quoted, which is rather more accurate than the 'equivalent wattage' previously headlined.
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>> I notice that output in lumens is now often quoted, which is rather more accurate than the 'equivalent wattage' previously headlined.>>
The Tesco ones I mentioned do provide the lumens output as well as the equivalent wattage.
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www.clasohlson.co.uk
Has a wide variety of bulbs on their site with equivalent wattage.
Some odd values (honest) values shown.
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Frosted light bulbs - Old Navy
