Sky football frontmen Andy Gray and Richard Keys have been disciplined over remarks they made about a female linesman.
They thought they were off-air, and the comments were not exactly hardcore sexism, but I've noticed Sky has quite high standards with its broadcasters.
It is also an agile company which reacts very swiftly to any situation.
And a big thumbs up to Kenny Dalglish for demonstrating a sense of humour.
Quoting the last few lines of the story:
"The sexism debate even cropped up in Liverpool manager Kenny Dalglish's news conference on Monday.
"At the start, Dalglish jokingly asked Sky's male reporter whether he minded that there was a woman present."
news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/9371642.stm
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Sky has standards, only when under the pressure of the PC brigade.
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...Sky has standards, only when under the pressure of the PC brigade...
Not quite fair, they sacked a news reporter who used file footage of a warship, thereby giving the implied impression the ship was where it was not.
The reporter was wrong to do it, but I remember thinking at the time I had not been grievously misled as a viewer.
Sacking seemed harsh to me, and there was no pressure on them to do it.
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Listening to the clip on the BBC site, it's hard to detect any humour in their voices which I think is the worry.
Tim Lovejoy made a joke on Something for the Weekend on Sunday morning, along the lines of he doesn't mind female linesmen (sorry 'assistant referees') as long as they're pretty. But he said that with a smile on his face and made it clear he was joking.
Last edited by: Focus on Mon 24 Jan 11 at 14:46
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...it's hard to detect any humour in their voices which I think is the worry...
Agreed, no sympathy for them.
They are both ex-professional footballers from a certain age and share attitudes which were, and maybe still are, common in football club dressing rooms.
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Some men can't deal with women that do better than them.
Murdoch will be proud of you - the first time that the word Sky and standards have been mentioned in the same sentence without the words low and no appearing with them.....
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@ Iffy - Richard Keys is NOT an ex-footballer.
He is merely a Coventry City fan and never played the game at any notable level.
He is without doubt the least knowledgeable and most obsequious of all the TV pundits, I have have no idea how he got the job in the first place, nor how he's hung on to it for so long.
Gray is at least an ex-player and was an accomplised internationl striker to boot - I met him once at Craven Cottae in the days when he was playing for Wolves and he was a charming chap. When he started pundity, he was excellent, sadly he is now infected with the "Big 4" (plus Man City and Spurs now they're doing reasonably well) bias of most football presenters nowadays.
Last edited by: Alanović on Mon 24 Jan 11 at 14:55
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... the first time that the word Sky and standards have been mentioned in the same sentence without the words low and no appearing with them...
Very easy remark to make, but the facts suggest otherwise.
How about the Sky Sports News presenter who was disciplined and I think sacked, for making smutty remarks on her twitter page?
Sky quite rightly took the view that certain standards of behaviour can be expected of their people who appear in front of the camera.
The twitter readers knew who the girl was - a lot of the innuendo was football related - and Sky decided the tweets reflected poorly on their channel.
Last edited by: Iffy on Mon 24 Jan 11 at 15:12
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Their reporting standards are iffy iffy - worth you reading the critique of the coverage of the Bristol murder and Arizona shootings in the Eye.
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...Their reporting standards are iffy iffy...
Closer to home, they did a decent job of Raoul Moat.
I see Peter Sissons is leaving/has left the BBC because he can no longer stand the left wing ethos which pervades the corporation.
He reckons ITN is much straighter.
I wouldn't want to stake my life on any of it, but I reckon the Sky news service is at least the equal of the others.
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Yes, that's right, the hideously left wing BBC who employ Andrew Neil and Michael Portillo on a major political show.
Good grief.
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"Left wing bias is written into the BBC's DNA," says Peter Sissons.
The guy has worked there for 20 years, so might know what he's talking about.
The linked article is rather long, but he argues his case quite coherently.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1349506/Left-wing-bias-Its-written-BBCs-DNA-says-Peter-Sissons.html
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How odd that the Daily Wail should publish such a thing.
The man may have political/professional/personal motivations for all I know. Who can tell. But I see no left wing bias in BBC content, which is surely the important thing. Do you? If so, where?
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In fact the BBC did a very good job of being Her Majesty's Opposition when Parliament lacked a cohesive one - especially on Iraq
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Yeah, funny how the labour government tried to silence the left wing BBC.
BBC news, is possibly the nearest thing to independent news coverage in the world. Most of the unfree world depends on it.
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At least the Beeb gets banned from "hard" places like Zimbabwe !
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I can back this up anecdotally, as I know people in the former Yugoslavia (on all sides) depended on the BBC in the darkest days of the 90s and 00s.
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The excellent ITN that was banned from recent Avon and Somerset press conferences ?
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I am with PU
The only standards sky have are marked in Dollars
or any other currency they dont get taxed on,
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Sky only have standards when they are forced to.
See Fox News...
I rest my case..
As for the BBC being left wing,
"BBC Director General Mark Thompson has admitted the corporation was guilty of a 'massive' Left-wing bias in the past"
Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1308215/Yes-BBC-biased-Mark-Thompson-admits-massive-lean-Left.html#ixzz1ByBf8Lht
That should end argument on the issue..:-)
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Again, it's in the Daily Wail and, therefore, inadmissible in a court of law.
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BBC was biased against Thatcher, admits Mark Thompson
The BBC was "massively" biased against Margaret Thatcher and journalists allowed their left-wing politics to set the corporation's agenda, director-general Mark Thompson has admitted.
www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/bbc/7976318/BBC-was-biased-against-Thatcher-admits-Mark-Thompson.html
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>> BBC was biased against Thatcher, admits Mark Thompson
>> The BBC was "massively" biased against Margaret Thatcher and journalists allowed their left-wing politics to
That puts them middle of the road. They get criticised by the left for being right wing, and the right wing for being left. Where else would you like them to be?
If both sides claim bias, that's a damn fine job being done.
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 24 Jan 11 at 16:30
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In fairness, the BBC News channel covered the recent Miriam O'Reilly case against it in full throughout the day, including the entire live Press conference she gave shortly after the verdict.
Sky has dealt with the Gray/Keys incident very quickly and very firmly and has played the offending conversation several times today, even though they were off-camera when made; it has also solicited the views of leading women's football associations' representatives as well as the FA.
Re the ITN ban:
www.pressgazette.co.uk/story.asp?storycode=46501
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Do you work for Sky iffy?
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They can't afford him. :-)
John
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...They can't afford him. :-)...
At last, a man who understands my true worth. :)
I wasn't aware the director general had 'fessed up to the leftie BBC newsroom, but one hopes that's a start on putting matters back on a more even keel.
Going back to Sky's standards, I'd forgotten they also sacked Ron Atkinson for an 'off-air' remark about a black player, and they sacked Rodney Marsh for a tasteless remark about the tsunami.
This brings me to another point, the majority of these gaffes have been carried out by amateurs masquerading as professional broadcasters/journalists.
A pro would know you never, ever type anything you are not prepared to see on the front page, and you never, ever say anything you are not prepared to be broadcast on News at Ten.
A lot of ex-players seem to think they can turn themselves into Alvar Liddell in a week, but the reverse is also true.
Put a professional journalist or broadcaster in a Premier League team and he would perform like a complete plonker.
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A pro would know you never, ever type anything you are not prepared to see on the front page, and you never, ever say anything you are not prepared to be broadcast on News at Ten
That reminds me of something on this very site a few weeks ago.
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...That reminds me of something on this very site a few weeks ago...
The other thing a pro would know is not to dwell on errors of judgment, and when it's worth going to war with the editor and when it's not.
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Touche. Sorry couldn't resist it :-)
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>> Going back to Sky's standards, I'd forgotten they also sacked Ron Atkinson for an 'off-air'
>> remark about a black player, and they sacked Rodney Marsh for a tasteless remark about
>> the tsunami.
>>
It was ITV who sacked Atkinson.
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...It was ITV who sacked Atkinson...
Oops, I'd obviously also forgotten who sacked Atkinson.
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Mind you the Beeb were a bit slow to discipline Ross and Brand after what they did.
Last edited by: Pugugly on Mon 24 Jan 11 at 19:57
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...Mind you the Beeb were a bit slow to discipline Ross and Brand after what they did...
Not an agile organisation, it has the public body culture.
The BBC's first reaction to Ross and Brand would be to consult lawyers, hire consultants and call meetings.
Sky's first reaction is get the job done, and quickly.
Andy Coulson brought the same attitude to number 10.
If it's clear it's going to end in tears, get them shed sooner rather than later.
Last edited by: Iffy on Mon 24 Jan 11 at 20:07
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Shame Murdoch wasn't as "agile" in sorting out the mess at the News of the World.
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...Shame Murdoch wasn't as "agile" in sorting out the mess at the News of the World...
Which raises another point.
Everyone wrongly assumes the proprietor is behind every decision made in the newsroom other than what jar of coffee to buy.
There's no guarantee Murdoch even knows who Richard Keys and Andy Gray are, let alone what they've been up to.
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You're assuming I assume that iffy, but if a proprietor finds out and seemingly does nawt for months if not years - I think questions arise.
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Wonder if it's Maxwell House !
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He didn't buy the News of the Screws to sit back and have no interest in what it did or said.
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...but if a proprietor finds out and seemingly does nawt for months if not years...
I'm really not sure what you are referring to.
My only point is the proprietor's influence is not nearly as direct as people imagine it to be.
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I was referring to my point about Murdoch's inertia over the News of the World bugging scandal. If he didn't know about it, he's either not been reading his own papers, watching his own news or anybody else's for that matter. He has only weighed into the thing today......if it was my rag - I think I would have been taking a more pro-active approach.
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.....if it was my rag - I think I would have been taking a more pro-active approach...
Me too, but I guess that's one of the reasons why neither you nor I will ever own a national newspaper.
Murdoch owns News of the Worlds all over the world, not to mention the broadcast media side of his business
He employs a lot of very highly skilled dogs to do his barking for him.
If he has been drawn unwillingly into the goings on at the NoW, senior management there will regard themselves as having failed and will be looking over their shoulders.
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That's an apologist's view iffy. He shouldn't have been drawn unwillingly into it -he should have intervened earlier.
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...That's an apologist's view iffy...
I'm not apologising for anybody.
National newspapers - particularly their newsrooms - are queer places when it comes to how they work lines of responsibility.
I don't know directly, but I suspect Murdoch may feel his senior management have failed by not being able to handle the phone bugging themselves.
I'm not sure if this makes him a good proprietor or a bad one.
But whatever Murdoch's management style is, it works for him because he has been so successful at building up his portfolio.
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I may admire his business acumen and the size of his portfolio but he's a deeply unattractive human being.
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>>That's an apologist's view iffy. He shouldn't have been drawn unwillingly into it -he should have intervened earlier.>>
The editor of a publication is entirely responsible for what it publishes, not the proprietor. Even then the editor may not be fully aware of EVERY story that is being published or how it is obtained, but has to take any kickbacks.
That's why Andy Coulson resigned his editorship, even though he claimed he knew nothing about the methods being used. To be frank I can understand his protestations to some degree.
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>> There's no guarantee Murdoch even knows who Richard Keys and Andy Gray are, let alone
>> what they've been up to.
He should, given what he earns :)
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>> ...Mind you the Beeb were a bit slow to discipline Ross and Brand after what
>> they did...
>>
>> Not an agile organisation, it has the public body culture.
Really not fair at all.
The BBC was a very early adopter of the web, and done in such a way with such standards that everyone else has been bleating about it for years. It is the beacon and benchmark of how web content should be organised and delivered.
BBC Iplayer, again a leading edge concept in its day, much lauded and applauded and followed by others (except Virgin the whiners in chief of the uk)
If you mean not agile is not instantly throwing arms in air and throwing toys around at the the outraged minorities insistence, then jolly good show I say
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>>The BBC was a very early adopter of the web, and done in such a way with such standards that everyone else has been bleating about it for years. It is the beacon and benchmark of how web content should be organised and delivered.
BBC Iplayer, again a leading edge concept in its day, much lauded and applauded and followed by others (except Virgin the whiners in chief of the uk)>>
Spot on in both cases. The website is extraordinarily good.
Don't let us forget Nicam stereo and Ceefax either, both conceived and developed by BBC engineers.
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...Spot on in both cases. The website is extraordinarily good...
Criticism of the BBC in this thread relates solely to its newsroom.
No one is questioning the corporation's engineering abilities.
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>>Criticism of the BBC in this thread relates solely to its newsroom.>>
You haven't seen the www. bbc.co.uk website's News section then, of which a large proportion is contributed by many of its BBC News correspondents?
For instance: news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/9371642.stm
news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/9371621.stm
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"They are both ex-professional footballers from a certain age and share attitudes which were, and maybe still are, common in football club dressing rooms."....and throughout the land.
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At least Peter Sissons is not sexist.......
www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHXwqLqeZuU
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....At least Peter Sissons is not sexist...
Top stuff.
Proper, cynical old hack.
The guy's just gone up in my estimation.
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Well there are pictures in The Sun today of this female assistant referee and she is actually a nice bit of eye candy!
Now guys, would it be good to have a bird like that on your couch with you who understands the offside rule and you could share the joys of the game with?
Or would you prefer to keep her at arms length during matches and just continue to do her duties of bringing you the chilled beer and Pringles?
:) honest!
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>> Well there are pictures in The Sun today of this female assistant referee and she
>> is actually a nice bit of eye candy!
FYI tinyurl.com/69zbljs
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Don't you just love sonicwall!! :(
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The Sun headline: "He's fat, he's round, he's watched it in his lounge! Andy Gray...." is another one in the eye for the Murdoch conspiracy theorists.
The paper has really gone to town on the story, almost to the point of over-compensating.
But they certainly can't be accused of trying to brush it under the carpet.
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I read somewhere today that Sky Sports are raging with Sky News for giving it so much coverage and are threatening to pull their sports reporters from any News articles ...........
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...that Sky Sports are raging with Sky News for giving it so much coverage...
I imagine a story such as this would cause some internal tensions.
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I imagine a story such as this would cause some internal tensions.
Dr Watson's famous words spring to mind.
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Elementary? As in school?
The whole thing's a storm in a teacup.
But if it serves to get Keys off our screens for good, then I'm all for it.
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TBH if they'd just been caught on mike commenting on attractiveness to of the opposite sex thay might have got away with it. Blokes do it all the time and so do plenty of Ladies.
It was the sexist assumption that gender made her incapable of assessing postions of the ball relative to advancing/defending players the caused the truoble.
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Sometimes I feel the whole hounding of people who have made comments that the rest of us would make quite boring.
There was a Scottish MSP or whatever they are called who had to resign because someone overheard him saying to a colleague that a woman in the public gallery was a bit of alright.
Link here news.scotsman.com/news/Shamed-MSP-Frank-McAveety-quits.6367007.jp
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It's one thing for two reporters to dimiss the capability of female refs as they are not members of a body which has campaigned for equality for wimmin. But the Labour Party has campaigned rightly and with great success for equal and fair tretament of wimmin So when a male Labour MP makes silly statements: he's so thick he deserves to lose his job.
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What makes this so sad, is that the comments were made with not the merest hint of jocularity or humour, wit or irony.
Ignorance at its very worse.
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It seems Gray is one of those complaining of phone hacking by the News of the World.
That would explain The Sun's stance, and to a lesser extent Sky's.
Keys might feel he is slightly outside the firing line, but he should be worried about being written off as acceptable collateral damage by those out to get Gray.
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So madf, do you not think that women at any time might nudge each other and say cor, he's a bit alright?
Or to keep this totally PC, a gay man nudging another gay man to say cor he is alright
Or a lesbian nudging another lesbian and saying cor, she's a bit of alright?
Worth losing a job over? I don't think so. In fact, would almost say it makes them appear more human!
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People can say what they like in private. If they are broadcasters, lesson one is never to say anything near a microphone that you do not want broadcast.
Silly them.
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...Andy Gray sacked...
Ouch, that's goodbye to £1.7m a year for doing a hard, but presumably enjoyable job.
I am curious to know who it was in Sky who leaked the original tape to the Mail on Sunday, and why he or she did it.
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>> Ouch, that's goodbye to £1.7m a year for doing a hard, but presumably enjoyable job.
Wow - was that just what Sky paid him?
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...Wow - was that just what Sky paid him?...
According to reports, although these things are often educated guesstimates.
I recall when he was offered the manager's job at Everton, it was said one of the reasons he turned it down was because it would have meant taking a pay cut.
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According to Sky he's a serial offender:
"The new evidence, relating to an off-air incident that took place in December 2010, came to light after Andy Gray had already been subjected to disciplinary action for his comments of January 22, 2011.
"The new evidence involved footage showing Gray asking a female co-presenter to tuck in his shirt."
tinyurl.com/4cmsumq
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What made me laugh was the stuff on the web today where he was debating whether he would or not with the lineswoman when he's clearly such a good catch (not)
Last edited by: Pugugly on Tue 25 Jan 11 at 17:00
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Has he not been married 3 or 4 times?
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The heinous shirt tucking offence is good news for Keys, because that differentiates his case from Gray's.
My prediction is Keys will ride out the storm.
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I must admit, I have went off Sky's football coverage due to the amount of analysis that the two of them do after every game with their smart board etc, I think they have just went overboard trying to go further and further than their competitiors.
I mean are we really interested in looking at the technique involved in throw ins?
However I am intrigued by the sacking - is it not a case than any employee is entitled to a disciplinary hearing, 24 hours notice of that hearing etc etc?
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Oh and with the wages he was on, and the huge savings they could make with someone else who would do the same job for less money, it has the undertones of the Jonathan Ross sacking.
Very convenient to have an excuse to bin him.......
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>> However I am intrigued by the sacking - is it not a case than any
>> employee is entitled to a disciplinary hearing, 24 hours notice of that hearing etc etc?
He will have a clause in his contract about bringing the company into disrepute, etc etc, that can be invoked under the "gross misconduct" banner that any employee can be dismissed with.
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But do you not still need to be dismissed through a hearing, the right to give your own evidence etc?
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no
Its like you can instantly sack any of your shop staff for nicking. Sometimes, you may have to have a disciplinary procedure to bring a "gross misconduct", but not always.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 25 Jan 11 at 17:08
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Gross misconduct is usually grounds for instant dismissal.
Of course, you need 100% proof of it and that you have applied the rule fairly...
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>> Gross misconduct is usually grounds for instant dismissal.
>>
>> Of course, you need 100% proof of it and that you have applied the rule
>> fairly...
Yeah. Punching the boss, stealing the directors jag, sexually assaulting the receptionist, calling the major customer a female genitalia, getting caught with a line of charlie on your mousepad.
you know the kinda thing. Thats why BBD went self employed.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 25 Jan 11 at 17:16
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...any employee entitled to a disciplinary hearing...
Sky may not employ him directly, they may pay Andy Gray Ltd a fee for the provision of presentation services.
He is therefore more like a sub-contractor on a building site who has no employment rights in the way those of us on PAYE understand.
Gray's contract has been terminated.
'Sacking' is a term Sky is happy to use, because it is simple, direct and everyone understands its meaning.
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The victim in all this has kept a discrete silence - seems she has withdrawn from a match tonight. Feel sorry for her.
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And the ironic thing? She was universally praised for a tight, but correct call for offside.
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>> And the ironic thing? She was universally praised for a tight, but correct call for
>> offside.
Quite, although I would say he was about a mile on side. And, of course, Andy Gray got that call wrong. I've never rated him as a pundit, just a guy that can fill dead air with some gibberish (which is perhaps all the role calls for).
Hardly a loss to football punditry, but then I have never really rated any of them apart from Jimmy Hill.
Last edited by: SteelSpark on Tue 25 Jan 11 at 17:47
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...Feel sorry for her...
Yes, quite a shock to the system to find oneself at the centre of a big story.
Happily for her she has been portrayed as nothing other than a competent footie official and a good-looking young lass.
She did publish the party pics of herself on myspace, so she cannot be worried about them reaching a wider audience, albeit a much wider one now.
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Life as a journalist must be very easy nowadays compared to the days of old.
Where they used to have to get up off their backside to get a story and wire it in, they can just sit in front of a PC with some googling, facebook trawling and some phone hacking and they can get all the info they need!
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Reading that link - makes you think - the words opportunity and knocks springs to mind
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Pug, is there not an element here where employers hands are being forced by their legal representatives?
What message does it send out to all their female staff if the employer is seen to accept perceived derogatory sexist comments and only disciplining staff for it? Could that open the floodgates for the right female employee, and the right lawyer / human rights lawyer etc etc to make something out of it?
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Wonder what Pat pda's take on this is?
I wonder whether she has ever heard any " derogatory sexist comments" in her role as a female trucker?
I'm sure male truckers would not stoop to the depths of footie commentators!!
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Meanwhile back in La-La Land, Chelsea have just bid £52m for two players:
news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/c/chelsea/9373739.stm
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And failed too. Must have offered too much money ;-)
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Anyone been receiving the joke texts going around about this?
I would post but too scared of Pat!!!
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...I would post but too scared of Pat!!!...
I think it's usually 'early to bed, early to rise' for Pat, so now's your chance.
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I couldn't repeat on here some of the sexist comments I've had Phil, but it comes with the territory.
The comments do hurt, but I have the utmost respect for the way Sian Massey is handling this by saying nothing.
She would have been well aware that she would face this sort of thing as she's certainly come up through the ranks to get where she is today.
On the way up she's already gained the respect and confidence of a lot of men for the way she does her job.
That in itself will give her the confidence to see such remarks as being from the type of men who feel threatened by a successful woman, wading into their exclusively male domain.
I always refused to get visibly drawn or ruffled by them and laughed them off.
I would certainly never complain to the management about them...that is the worst scenario in my book.
It was my choice as a job and my problem to handle it my way.
Sian will know, as I did, that she will have to be almost perfect in everything she does.
If I had a bad day reversing in a tiny gap (as all men do sometimes), there would always be one driver standing there watching who would remark loudly 'what do you expect of a woman driver, they shouldn't be allowed to drive lorries?'
My stock answer was to laugh and say, 'You think that's bad? You should see my cooking!'.....then go away and feel mortified that I made a bad job of it when no-one could see me.
The two commentators are a different matter.
As has been noted the remarks were made without a scrap of humour and as such, were made seriously.
They should have both been aware that whenever a mike is present, it can never be assumed that no-one can hear you. Their own experience at the job should have taught them that.
The salary they command dictates that everything they say or do 'off air' should be considered as part of ther public lives.
In short , they behaved less than professionally, Sian Massey on the other hand has been dignified and correct in her handling of both the off side rule and the subsequent furore.
Perhaps they had a reason to feel threatened?
Pat
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He's consulting his lawyers now - let's hope he doesn't have to explain employment/contract law to them.
Last edited by: Pugugly on Wed 26 Jan 11 at 09:12
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We have two female helicopter pilots who do the job as well as if not better than the men and can hold their own very well in the operations room banter.
So what is the difference between Andy Gray and the ladies on 'Loose Women' then Pat?
Plenty of sexist anti male remarks there.......why are they not sacked?
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I don't watch Loose Women, but I assume they are made with good humour and with the approval of the programme directors.
In the news report I saw, these remarks certainly were not.
Looking at this simply, we're always taught that at all times, whatever our job may be, we represent the company we work for when at work.
No company can afford to be accused of being sexist now days and these two guys should be reasonably intelligent enough to be aware of that.
A lot have been sacked for far less.
Pat
Last edited by: pda on Wed 26 Jan 11 at 12:43
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There was a debate on whatever the BBC call their breakfast time programme - hey had someone who was tagged as a journalist called Piers Hernu he had an 'interesting' view - not much on him on the internet.
Last edited by: Pugugly on Wed 26 Jan 11 at 12:49
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Hernu used to write for "Loaded" magazine in the 90s.
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I've heard a female Assistant Referee is going to explain the Equality Act to Andy Gray and Richard keys using condiments on the kitchen table.
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Oh....(said in a tone of voice that's difficult to convey in a written forum)
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I can aurally visualise (auralise?) your tone PU.....
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It's worth a look if you can be bothered trawling through a couple of hours of mindless drivel - I think it was on around 8.45 from memory.
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A friend of mine has just downloaded the new FIFA 11 commentary update. Not much different, although when his wife went on it, Andy Gray shouted at her "Put the controller down and get back to the kitchen."
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Gray has been with some very good-looking women.
It says so in the Daily Mail, so it must be true.
Their description of him as 'an unlikely Lothario' seems about right.
www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1350591/Andy-Gray-sacking-Countless-affairs-love-children-sordid-truth-pundit.html
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Since when has earning 1.5m quid a year made anyone an unlikely lothario?
Highly likely lothario, I'd say.
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...Since when has earning 1.5m quid a year made anyone an unlikely lothario?...
That's the sort of cynical, shallow male type of remark I'd expect from someone like me. :)
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>> Gray has been with some very good-looking women.
He was a top division footballer - I remember him playing for Villa when they used to be my favourite team (can't say I 'supported' them as I only saw them play a couple of times IIRC; a colleague of my dad had a season ticket). Must have had a good selection to choose from in those days.
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I think it says more about the character of the women than it does about him.
Pat
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Not really, Pat. It takes two to tango.
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>> Not really, Pat. It takes two to tango.
I assure you that it doesn't.
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Well, there are many words for those who tango alone.
Loose women and gold diggers perhaps, but unless they've phsyically reatrained the man, then some degree of effort and subjugation of conscience is involved on his part to accept their advances.
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With those looks and that reputation the women can only find his money attractive.
If that is so they get all they deserve, I'm afraid.
Pat
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>> Well, there are many words for those who tango alone.
>>
>> Loose women and gold diggers perhaps, but unless they've phsyically reatrained the man, then some
>> degree of effort and subjugation of conscience is involved on his part to accept their
>> advances.
Yeah, but not the kind of solo tangoing I was referring too. ;)
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There's a difference, obviously, between making sexist remarks on air and making them when you think the mike's turned off and you're putting your feet up with a couple of other smartly-dressed louts.
This whole business reeks of humbug. Sky channels are stuffed with all sorts of sexist garbaggio. The ghastly Digger is very ruthless though, and surprisingly thin-skinned for someone so grossly rich and powerful.
Perhaps this firing was for lack of professionalism in relaxing within earshot of a mike at all. Something similar happened to Carol Thatcher, although the alleged offence was racism in her case. Made me despise for ever the fat ugly female comedian Jo Brand and that invisible-man-fellating bewildered goldfish chap, now a footer pundit. Couple of mean sneaks.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Wed 26 Jan 11 at 16:26
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As always AC you have a gift for summing "stuff" up.
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"I assure you that it doesn't."
Absolutely. I tango alone at least once a day.
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I'm somewhat amused to see that Andy Gray now seems to be bleating on about ageism (he seems to be claiming that he has been sacked to be replaced by a younger model).
I suppose you can pick and choose which -ism you think is fun and which -ism you think is grounds for litigation.
The truth is you need to be careful at work, and arguably rightly so.
If you want to feel young by making saucy comments towards young women, be sensible and do it in a bar, rather than at work.
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In a spirit of pot stirring......Multi-tasking...........................................
.
i115.photobucket.com/albums/n297/penfro/MultiTasking.jpg
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Shame on you landsker:)
Pat
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As I said earlier in the thread, Keys will ride out the storm. :)
tinyurl.com/628eldg
Last edited by: Iffy on Wed 26 Jan 11 at 19:12
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>> As I said earlier in the thread, Keys will ride out the storm. :)
>>
>> tinyurl.com/628eldg
>>
*snigger*
I think he was hoping to, but the story developed such legs that his position became untenable. I'm not the most PC of blokes myself, but what they said about women's fitness to officiate a football match would have had them sacked on the spot and possibly prosecuted had they been referring to a black or Asian linesman.
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This was a private conversation: the thought police are looking over your shoulder, people.
Don't you dare to voice your true opinions - even in the privacy of your own home.
Non-PC thoughts are not allowed - Big Brother knows best.
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>> This was a private conversation:
How come we all heard it then
t
>> Don't you dare to voice your true opinions - even in the privacy of your
>> own home.
My opinion? AG is a dik hed.
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I must remember when I have a microphone on that I should not voice any controversial opinions ;-)
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PC or not, their comments indicate they think women are incapable of doing such jobs. Surely that makes them unqualified to hold very highly paid positions where you should know what you're talking about.
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I could go some way with these two, but as others have noted, the words were said in such a sour manner - not a trace of humour, lads' mag or otherwise.
The tape of Gray asking the girl to tuck the wire into his fly is almost creepy.
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And he discusses them as sexual objects when he's hardly an oil-painting himself..
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>> but as others have noted, the words
>> were said in such a sour manner - not a trace of humour, lads' mag
>> or otherwise.
As one of those others, I did subsequently wonder if perhaps they weren't being serious, using deadpan delivery of what they knew to be ridiculous lines, as used in (for example) spoof documentaries.
But I haven't seen any reports of them using this as a defence, so I guess they were being serious after all.
Last edited by: Focus on Wed 26 Jan 11 at 21:40
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Keys has indicated that there were "some dark forces working in the background".
At the end of the day, here we have a couple of employees who have been grassed / stitched up by one of their colleagues.
Either someone who had a major grudge and wanted retribution or someone who thought they were playing a practical joke that back fired.
Either way must be a rotten feeling knowing a colleague has went behind your back.
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>> Either way must be a rotten feeling knowing a colleague has went behind your back.
>>
According to reports Keys and Gray were detested by many of those they worked with, so there probably would have been no shortage of people willing to plunge the knife in.
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If it's true that Gray was getting around £1.5m for not doing much (how much was Keys on?) then lots will have been willing to drop them in it. But they have been removed because of how they behaved and only have themselves to blame.
Gray does not sound like a nice person. I'm sure he'll spring up somewhere.
I wonder if they will team Rednapp up with a female presenter to replace them ;-)
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>> Gray does not sound like a nice person. I'm sure he'll spring up somewhere.
>>
Talksport, I expect. Or the Daily Wail as a columnist.
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...Or the Daily Wail as a columnist...
The Daily Mail has worked hard to build the largest female readership in Fleet Street.
It is one of their 'assets' most prized by the other nationals.
I suspect the Mail would think even a contrite Gray would have, overall, a negative impact on the paper.
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Talksport was my thought.
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...Talksport was my thought....
The baggage wouldn't worry them.
Keys has been on there already, so I wonder if the pair might be reunited.
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...According to reports Keys and Gray were detested by many of those they worked with...
They were big hitters, well-paid, only having to do cream jobs, so there was bound to be resentment from colleagues.
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Asked backstage if he felt there were enough women on Top Gear, presenter Jeremy Clarkson quipped: "Who do you think tucks our microphone cables in?"
(He gets serious after that.)
www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-12296317
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As predicted by some above, they have indeed gone to TalkSport
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12396699
Talk rubbish more like...
Last edited by: VxFan on Sun 13 Feb 11 at 03:04
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Ha. Bullseye. What a surprise.
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>> Ha. Bullseye. What a surprise.
Lets take a look at what you could've won.
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Naff all, as usual. Not even BFH. Both of which would have been preferable to a caravan..............
I used to work in the Grove pub on Castle Boulevard in Nottingham years back, and Jim Bowen and his crew used to pop in for drinks from the Central studios round the corner.
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Someone said Gray is now on Al-Jazeera TV.
Does anyone know if that's right?
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Iffy,
Ref. Murdoch's knowledge of the "hacking" scandal....
It may be worth you plucking a copy of Private Eye off the shelves this week......
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Thanks, although will I be able to understand it?
I find some of their stuff impenetrable.
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I was reminded of this thread in the last few days.
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Sky has standards - Old Navy
