This is it. This year, spring most likely, I'm going to place the order. I'm a comfort suspension freak, so I'm somewhat limited to just a few cars. I know there are various Mercs etc. but just cannot afford them.
Tested a lot of cars with active suspension, but most of them, like Insignia or even Mondeo just cannot match the C5. I found out, that only the Passat with DCC suspension may try to fight with C5 when it comes to ride quality, but it's not all that easy.
The Passat has an excellent active cruise control, which is not only very effective, easy and nice to use, but also very cheap. You can't get such a feature in a C5, what a pity.
I'm not concerned about the residuals, because I'm gonna keep that car till the very end, mine or its. Rumour has it, The French finally got their act together and there are no leaks from the suspension itself. Unfortunately, people tell me different stories about electronic. I sort of found out about it all mysefl, while pickping up a C5 1.6 THP for an extended test drive. Suddenly an Antipolution Air Filter Error popped up and I had to rev the engine pretty high just to overtake a school bus. Quick return to the dealer, check on the computer and "we'll fix it in 15 mins".
15 min... 25 mins... 1 hour... "sorry sir, it's something more serious, phone us tomorrow and we'll do our best for it to be ready". Phoned 'em and heard "sorry sir, it's something more serious, we've prepared a new car for you". Well, OK. This time, everything was OK, but the whole situation made me thinking. Are there any known issues with 1.6 THP engines ?
I'm torned apart, because I love C5's suspension. I know that the Passat would provide only a fraction of that feeling, but it can be had with leather, keyless access and a gorgeous active cruise, which I also simply adore. I guess the TSI range of engines, namely the 1.8 TSI, looks better than that French powerplant.
Both cars cost exactly the same, however Citroen suggests a near 20% off-price cut, while VW only about 10%.
As I just said, I'm torned apart.
|
tinyurl.com/citroen-c6
Would sir be interested in the very best in road comfort?
|
|
Well, yes and no. Yes, because I tested 3 different versions and just loved them. No, because I cannot afford one, they're just too expensive. I'm a brand-new-car market, so it really comes to "C5 or Passat with DCC suspension" debate.
|
Passat CC GT? If you get one let me know how it goes because I might be after one later this year. Possibly a CC GT diesel DSG with a few options.
I personally like the Passat. The interior is very nice. Also like the Audi A4/A5 mind. But can get a better VW Passat for the same money.
|
|
Nah, in my neck of the woods, the CC is considerably more expensive than the proper Saloon, so I'll really have to stick with the ordinary version.
|
Same car underneath and the interior from the CC has been updated and put in the saloon/estate and then the new updated interior is now in the CC too.
Which model Passat saloon are you looking at? For the spec I was looking at the CC GT with a few options is the same as the CC with similar options. And the former is a similar price as the Passat Saloon with similar options. I am looking at company car prices but purchase must be affected the same?
For example, the 'poverty' spec Passat CC with the options I'd want works out around the same as the Passat CC GT with the same options. But that has leather and other options on top as well.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Tue 11 Jan 11 at 23:34
|
There's also a drivetrain issue, namely the autobox. VW's DSG has 7 ratios, dual clutch, not a proper torque converter thingy. They say it's robust, but future repairs may be pricey, due to its complexity. It's a good box, no doubt about it, though just not the best.
On the other hand, C5's proper box with converter, has 6 ratios and is Made in Japan by Aisin, I guess, or Borg Warner. Feels more smooth and refined, plus it is less complex, but being fairly new, little is known about its reliability.
Oh, almost forgot completely... Are those standard, white non-metallic paints tough enough ?
|
>> On the other hand, C5's proper box with converter, has 6 ratios and is Made in Japan by
>> Aisin, I guess, or Borg Warner.
Probably the latter which they own. So if they are still there it could be south Wales.
A colleague I spoke to today has a Golf DSG which he likes but mentions the issue with a delay on roundabouts and similar junctions.... I'd have to drive one.
>> Oh, almost forgot completely... Are those standard, white non-metallic paints tough enough ?
The Passat I had on 2000 and earlier cars had hard wearing finishes. All cars since are poor. I suspect this is the change to water based pains and they easily scratch. The Passat I mention went back scratch free. Only damage to paint was sorted in a frontal impact. And I had it for 3.5 years. My current car, a Mazda6, had paint chips within weeks.
|
My C5 is now just over a year old with 15k recorded. It hasn't suffered any issues electrical or otherwise. The Passat would have been on my shortlist too if I'd looked beyond the C5.
It seems you have looked into these two cars in great detail and as you intend to keep your choice for many years just buy the one you like the best.
|
|
BTW I thought the 1.6 C5 came on steel springs???
Last edited by: Fenlander on Wed 12 Jan 11 at 08:08
|
>> A colleague I spoke to today has a Golf DSG which he likes but mentions
>> the issue with a delay on roundabouts and similar junctions.... I'd have to drive one.
This is the very reason I've recently swapped a VW Touran DSG for a Ford Galaxy TC auto. I couldn't stand the hesitation pulling away any more, I drive mostly in town and it was driving me to distraction. Initially I loved the DSG, but I don't think I'd want one again. WIll stick with TCs.
Get the C5, and que sera sera. Sounds like it's the one you'd prefer.
|
...I couldn't stand the hesitation pulling away any more...
Brother's Honda Civic does the same, and it's very off-putting.
A basic and poor design flaw.
Big thumbs-down to Honda and VW/Audi for churning out cars with ropey gearboxes.
I wonder if all clutch pedal-less semi-auto boxes are the same?
Ford make one, I bet that's perfect. :)
Last edited by: Iffy on Wed 12 Jan 11 at 10:24
|
Our Smart Roadster (now sold) didn't do it. But that wasn't a dual clutch, and the automated gear changes were much jerkier than than the VW DSG (which is where that gearbox excels). It took quite a bit of practice and concentration to get the gear changes smooth in the Roadster, so i just usually left it in manual.
We've now got two TC autos (Golf TDi 100 Mk4 and Galaxy TDi 115 Mk2), and I'm more than happy with them. Although reading the remapping/chipping thread I'm toying with the idea of 150bhp in the Galaxy and 130 in the Golf...........
|
|
For what it's worth, the Autumn 2010 edition of Which Car? rated both the C5 and the Passat as poor for reliability for cars 3 years old and under. So there might not be much to choose between them on that front.
|
If a C5 under 3 years old is poor for reliability, imagine what it will be like with some corrosion in the electrical connectors at 5 years plus.
The OP is looking to keep the car till he or it snuffs it. My money would be on the C5 going first...
|
I stopped reading that magazine about 15yrs ago when I realised its results bore no similarity to my own experiences and those of my contacts when I was somewhat involved with the trade. To take notice of their opinions can unreasonably skew folks choices to exclude some excellent cars.
|
|
You may well be right, Fenlander. ADAC is pretty positive about the reliability of Passats for the last three years. Not enough C5s sold in Germany for it to be included in their statistics.
|
>> Probably the latter which they own. So if they are still there it could be
>> south Wales.
>>
Didn't know PSA owned Borg Warner.
I too thought the C5 1.6 THP had steel springs.
The 1.6 THP is a PSA/BMW engine. Not sure who did the design/ developmetn or who does the manufacturing? We've just taken delivery of a Peugeot RCZ Auto with this engine at work. I'll keep you updated of any gremlins.
|
Most seem to have steel springs with 'hydractive 3' being limited to exclusive trim.
Pity, the self levelling takes some beating, or at least it did on the BX & Xantia.
|
>> Didn't know PSA owned Borg Warner.
They don't. Aisin are the owners of Borg Warner (Aisin Warner) and Aisin is owned by Toyota.
|
With this being a long term purchase may i make a couple of suggestions.
Has the OP tried an Avensis, i'd have thought the comfort would be on a par with the other two, i've seen a number of these on proper tyre sizes and the auto gearbox is a peach...5 year 100K warranty and Toyota's deserved reputation for standing by the product well out of warranty.
Secondly new Magentis is due this year, likely to be a serious car for consideration, warranty better than any other maker, at least on paper, depreciation unknown in fact the whole car is unknown but might be worth hanging on a few months and trying one, auto should be proper given their previous model history.
|
Yes, I've tried an Avensis, three versions in a row to be exact - first 1.8 VVT-i Auto, then 2.0 VVT-i Manual and finally 2.2 D-4D Auto, all on 17" wheels as standard. Don't get me wrong, it's a nice car, but only when you drive it right after, say, Auris.
And I've tried it right after the C5. The initial impression - why isn't this car (Avensis, namely) equipped with shocks ? Why does it feel so bumpy and harsh ? What on Earth happened to that route ? (I've tested all those cars on the very same road). It comes as no surprise, because Toyota lacks adaptive suspension, and that's that. So does the new Magentis.
|
>> And I've tried it right after the C5. The initial impression - why isn't this
>> car (Avensis, namely) equipped with shocks ? Why does it feel so bumpy and harsh
>> ? What on Earth happened to that route ? (I've tested all those cars on
>> the very same road). It comes as no surprise, because Toyota lacks adaptive suspension
You're right about the suspension. The Avensis is a well designed car in most respects. The only thing I find is that the seats aren't particularly supportive (although maybe the ones with lumbar support are better, can only be had with the T180 and the T Spirit), and the suspension is a bit too stiff, mainly at the back - it never settles down at high speed. I don't think it needs adaptive suspension, just a decent set up like the Ford Mondeo, where the spring rates and dampers compliment each other.
|
I think the OP answered his own question in the first line of his first post.
He wrote: "I'm a comfort suspension freak."
Can't seem him getting past a Citroen.
|
|
OP - if the model you drove was a 1.6 petrol then it didnt have Hydractive suspension as only comes on Exclusive models
|
New C5 a smash hit in Cambridgeshire!
Well we now have a 3rd in the immediate family. First was a nephew with a 2.0Hdi saloon, then myself with the 1.6Hdi Tourer and my uncle has just phoned to say he's bought a mint 1yr old 1.6Hdi saloon for no money at all.
My uncle has traded a much cherished Mercedes for the C5 and was amazed at its comfort, ride and refinement as the standout qualities.
|
>> OP - if the model you drove was a 1.6 petrol then it didnt have
>> Hydractive suspension as only comes on Exclusive models
Yes, it does, the car in question was a 1.6 THP petrol Exclusive, indeed.
Last edited by: Vincent on Thu 13 Jan 11 at 21:27
|
>> >> OP - if the model you drove was a 1.6 petrol then it didnt
>> have
>> >> Hydractive suspension as only comes on Exclusive models
>>
>> Yes, it does, the car in question was a 1.6 THP petrol Exclusive, indeed.
>>
I have the brochure here in front of me and in UK spec the only models with Hydractive are in Exclusive trim. There are now no petrol models available in Exclusive trim.
I dont know when the model line up changed because when I got mine (1.6 HDi VTR+) they offered a 1.8 and 2.0 petrol, but I guess they have been dropped.
|
OP's in Poland, it'll be totally different specs for each trim level I expect.
Polish Skoda Octavia Vrs comes with folding door mirrors... Can't get them on vrs spec for love nor money over here :-(
|
This is the Nov'10 press release for the updated new C5 model range...
C5 Saloon
1.6 HDi 110bhp VTR £19,195
1.6 THP 155bhp VTR+ NAV £20,795
1.6 HDi 110bhp VTR+ NAV £20,795
2.0 HDi 160bhp VTR+ NAV £22,195
2.0 HDi 160bhp Auto VTR+ NAV £23,695
2.0 HDi 160bhp Exclusive £23,295
2.0HDi 160hp Auto Exclusive £24,795
3.0HDi V6 240hp Auto Exclusive £28,495
C5 Tourer
1.6HDi 110hp VTR £20,295
1.6HDi 110hp VTR+ NAV £21,895
2.0HDi 160hp VTR+ NAV £23,295
2.0HDi 160hp Auto VTR+ NAV £24,795
2.0HDi 160hp Exclusive £24,395
2.0HDi 160hp Auto Exclusive £25,895
3.0HDi V6 240hp Auto Exclusive £29,595
So no big petrol any more in the saloon and no petrol at all for the Tourer.
|
Ahhhh. Missed that. Guess that there is no market for a small capacity high spec petrol in the UK.
Believe the 1.6 THP is a PSA / BMW joint venture engine
|
|
Yes, it is a PSA / BMW joint venture engine, loaded up with modern tech, dual mass flywheel, direct injection and who knows what else. Complexity level probably equal to that of the VW's TSI, though...
|
2nd hand (in the UK) the C5 would be attractive, new (anywhere in the world) I'd get the Passat. I must admit to a sneaking desire to get a C6 (used of course given horrendous depreciation) next time I'm in the market for a car (anywhere in the world).
I thought the VAG TSi engines were holding up reasonably well for reliability ? Certainly I have found the 1.4 TSi 122 and 160/170 a very pleasant motor, can't comment on the BMW/PSA THP but it sounds comparable.
|
|
Yes, I know, the immortal depreciation factor. BTW, Citroen offered 23% off list price and VW 5%. Numbers, huh ?
Last edited by: Vincent on Sat 15 Jan 11 at 20:14
|
Citroen C5 or VW Passat - Lygonos
