Due to home problems I ignored prompts from my dentist.
The NHS "2-year rule" generally means that if you do not see an NHS Dental practice for 24 months, you may be classified as an inactive patient and removed from their list.
I have just discovered this. I was not aware of any publicity on the subject.
Due to home problems I ignored prompts from my dentist.
I had an old tooth crown detach its self, old course late on Friday afternoon.
Fortunately I detected it rather than it be lost or even swallowed.
It is now "glued" back in and I am back on the list.
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Sorry to hear about your teething troubles :)
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Piece on BBC TV news on Monday about paucity of NHS provision. Basically they're losing money providing NHS treatment.
Featured Viv Shah in Weedon who Mrs B goes to.
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I suspect it's more "not making as much " rather than "losing".
I know things change but I knew a couple of NHS dentists a few years back, they certainly didn't go hungry ever!
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Most self employed NHS dentists make around £50,000 to £100,00o p.a.
Good money certainly but considering the years of training involved not excessive. There is of course more to be made in the private sector hence the drift away from NHS practices. Private practice also allows much more complex and innovative work and I guess where the more skilled and ambitious want to work.
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Wed 26 Aug 26 at 16:00
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My ex-dentist (he's now sold the practice and retired at an early age) reckoned he could quite adequately survive on his NHS income alone.
"We don't all drive Porsches you know".
(His brand new BMW M-series convertible was parked out the back at the time).
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In the early 70s I was earning around £1700 per year. An older brother was netting around £18,000 per year - 3 x dentists worked for him. Built the business over decades 2 x sites.
35 years as his own boss. Absolutely minted is the best description.
Retired and found difficulty selling. Eventually "sold off to some of his employees". About 3/4 years later BUPA bought them out.
After a few years BUPA failed to make their business work for them.
Not enough Private patients?
Both practices were still very busy.
BUPA closed the smaller outlet and sold off the main practice.
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AIUI dentists get NHS cash for each unit of dental activity (UDA) undertaken. The cash paid by patients goes to the NHS not the dental practice.
To save money the value of each UDA has been reduced over time to the point it is seriously deficient. 1 UDA = ~£30. A check up or xray is 1 UDA, a filling, root canal etc 3 UDAs, complex work (dentures, crowns etc 12 UDAs.
Dentists are deserting the NHS because it does not pay enough. Analogy - 1 UDA = £30 = could be a diagnostic scan on your car, 3 UDA = £90 = could be a filter and oil change etc etc.
Dentists undergo years of study and expected to provide high quality professional services. Yet they get less under an NHS contract than the local grease monkey.
No surprise getting an NHS funded dentist is becoming increasingly diifficult - I assume many that remain are doing it from a sense of duty or service as much as for the money.
In Spain last year I had some major dental issues. Rather than return home I went to the local dental clinic. Seen quickly, entirely professional, about half the cost of the UK privately. In the UK finding a practice that will even take you on privately was a challenge when we moved recently.
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My dentist is in Ealing, a private practice, but does NHS work for children only.
Tomorrow I am going from Colchester, a £28.35 train fare (return). As I am a regular and prompt payer I asked for an appointment 2 days ago for scheduled checkup and tomorrow at 11.15 am.
Any time I have had an emergency I am seen immediately. Once I left home early saturday morning and drove to Ealing without phoning and when they opened they fit me in almost immediately, about a 30 minute wait...
He is a world class professor and is no more expensive than where I live.
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I had a 3 teeth bridge done in Portugal this March for €4800*. Here they quoted me £7500 for the same work about 4 or 5 years ago. I guess they simply don't train their dentists properly out there,,, :-)
(Yes yes I'm talking private, NHS wouldn't do a bridge, could only get a denture at (I think) £800 which was what I did. And I still pay full whack for NHS check-ups even though I only have half the real teeth I used to, and most of those are filled :-) )
* It's a pukka zirconia one btw, none of this wooden stuff they used to use here :-)
Last edited by: smokie on Wed 26 Aug 26 at 19:56
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I had a 3 teeth bridge done in Portugal this March for €4800*. Here they quoted me £7500 for the same work.
That's a rip off. My Dentist did a filling and a triple crown removing the previous white gold crown for £1950 and I kept the old crown, worth £550 in scrap gold...
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Mine were implants not a crown. If it was a rip-off it was less of a rip off than here!!
AI tells me you must've had the full ORB and sceptre (see what I did there?) along with your triple crown for the scrap gold to be worth £550 :-)
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The UDA Dental Payments is not applicable in Scotland.
Scottish dentists are paid a fixed rate for each piece of work done - Examination, filling, extraction etc etc
Adults pay 80% of the standard charge. Examinations are free for everyone.
Exemptions for for children, students, people on benefits etc etc
There are restrictions - White fillings are not paid by NHS and restrictions on of the range work done by dentist.
I broke a crown - NHS would pay for a plate. My bill was £400 for a new tooth anchored to it's 2 neighbours. 12 months later and another £200 for a replacement.
My local dentist has changes of dentist you see but the service is good.
My grandson who has lived in the US for 12+ years starts university here next month. No NHS dentist available, so has registered at a surgery. Mind you charges here are modest compared to the USA
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Implants not crowns . ....
My dentist £2000 a pop. Discount for more. .
Had 2 done in lockdown...
Last edited by: ORB>>> on Thu 27 Aug 26 at 10:28
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My NHS Dentist went private (virtually overnight) about 10 years ago. Scale and polish is normally about £105. My next visit is in October, when I've will have my top two central incisors capped (£214 each). I am having this done to complement improvement in my teeth's appearance after wearing braces* for the past 18 month.
* To straighten four lower central incisors which had become crowded. The cost for the white-coloured braces was £4,250 (private, not NHS).
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Back from today’s visit..
Return train fare £28.35 col - Ealing.
Checkup, x-ray on vaguely achy tooth cleaning and hygiene session provided 6 tubes of colgate duraphat 5000ppm fluoride toothpaste (otherwise has to be prescribed) (use separately after cleaning teeth with sensodyne) ( use sparingly and do not rinse.) and 2 bottles of corsodyl mouthwash..,, £190 the lot.
Last edited by: ORB>>> on Thu 27 Aug 26 at 18:00
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Like farmers, doctors, plumbers etc, the income of dentists is very variable, depending whether you devote most of your working life to buying and building your own premises and practice, or just turning up as a part-timer employee on a few days a week. Here is an extract from the ONS......
Average Dentist Earnings Overview (2026)Overall Average UK Salary: The average salary for a general dentist sits between £72,500 and £80,000 per year.The Self-Employed Reality: For self-employed associate dentists (who make up the bulk of high-street dental practices), independent industry data tracks the average net remuneration at £90,161 per year.
.......in stark contrast to what I have just read about the income of Avanti train drivers; no investment in premises or equipment required and a mere couple of years training. And that's for a non-job.......these days an actual train driver is unnecessary, and with the frequency of their SPADS (approx 5 a week), arguably dangerous.
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>> .......in stark contrast to what I have just read about the income of Avanti train
>> drivers; no investment in premises or equipment required and a mere couple of years training.
>> And that's for a non-job.......these days an actual train driver is unnecessary, and with the
>> frequency of their SPADS (approx 5 a week), arguably dangerous.
Did you read about it in the Times - which a I see - or the Telegraph which I do not? The former's account was pretty skewed....
The benefits of a unionised workforce ehh?
But then how come after 30 years in the rootin tootin private sector have train drivers not had their pay beaten down to a premium over the Living Wage.?
I think the non job characterisation is between biased and ill informed.
Driving one of Avanti's Pendolinos (Pendolini?) on a wet track with minimal visibility and knowing at all times to the foot where you are isn't a sinecure.
While docklands can run driverless on an urban tramway tansposing that onto the mixed traffic main line ain't happening any time soon
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It’s comparable with driving a bus through London on a wet night I guess.
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If train drivers and dentists earn the same sort of money, I would rather be a dentist.
You get home every evening soon after 5p.m. and you get paid for inflicting pain on people. What's not to like?
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....frequency of their SPADS (approx 5 a week), arguably dangerous.....
>> Did you read about it in the Times ....>>
Yes.
>> I think the non job characterisation is between biased and ill informed>>
I have no professional or political axe to grind. Over a decade ago I was talking with a senior TFL manager who told me that they were technically geared up to run the London tube network without any drivers. I can't see why in the future this would not be possible for our protected mainline framework. If you are ever in Hamburg seeking amusement, I commend Miniatur Wunderland....a vast amazing remotely controlled railway!
The skills demanded of a train driver are pretty basic compared with those required to be a competent HGV driver. Try reversing a two coach unit into a tunnel without rails.....or negotiating the A57 with a half-full artic tanker when the sleet is turning to snow.
Last edited by: John F on Tue 1 Sep 26 at 09:03
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>> The skills demanded of a train driver are pretty basic compared with those required to
>> be a competent HGV driver. Try reversing a two coach unit into a tunnel without
>> rails.....or negotiating the A57 with a half-full artic tanker when the sleet is turning to
>> snow.
>>
>>
>>
>
Yet the wages on offer say the opposite, there is a plentiful supply of wagon drivers. Train drivers not so much.
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>> Yet the wages on offer say the opposite, there is a plentiful supply of wagon
>> drivers. Train drivers not so much.
I thought at one stage we were short of drivers for top weight trucks due to amongst other things a retirement bulge and Brexit. The windows of agencies in Northampton were plastered with vacancies.
Has that been resolved?
The shortage of train drivers is partly down to how private operating companies have worked. It was easier and cheaper to offer ever better terms and conditions for drivers and poach from other operators then to invest in training.
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>> Has that been resolved?
Always been a high turnover of wagon drivers, but no real shortage.
It's cheap to train them in comparison to train drivers.
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 2 Sep 26 at 10:40
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>> Yet the wages on offer say the opposite, there is a plentiful supply of wagon drivers. Train drivers not so much. >>
If you believe the papers, drivers earn between £50 and 80K, which I suspect is a bit more than HGV drivers. I have recently taken the train from Edinburgh to Warrington - on the first occasion my train was Cancelled for 'shortage of staff' (unspecified). Since Rachel from Accounts handed out the promised rise after winning the last election, it seems that drivers are now happy to do less overtime, while the TOCs are unwilling to employ more men to have enough spare capacity. What happens on the WCML is that trains from Euston to Scotland change crews at Preston, and if the relief is not complete the train just stays there.
After arriving home 2 hours late on the first occasion we sent in our refund claim, which I assume is in process somewhere. Perhaps management have calculated that it costs less to make refunds than to employ more drivers ?
Last edited by: Andrew-T on Thu 3 Sep 26 at 18:29
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>> >> Yet the wages on offer say the opposite, there is a plentiful supply of
>> wagon drivers. Train drivers not so much. >>
>>
>> If you believe the papers, drivers earn between £50 and 80K, which I suspect is
>> a bit more than HGV drivers.
Exactly, although your figures are perhaps a bit low.
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>> The skills demanded of a train driver are pretty basic compared with those required to
>> be a competent HGV driver. Try reversing a two coach unit into a tunnel without
>> rails.....or negotiating the A57 with a half-full artic tanker when the sleet is turning to
>> snow.
I think you underestimate the skills needed on the railway.
The rails guide the train but each wheel's contact with them is about the size of a coin
Sleet turning to snow affects the wheel/rail interface as do areas with high humidity.
Modern trains probably have better wheel slip protection but the system on the Class 321 sets operating between Northampton and Euston could regularly be heard with slip starting and being arrested leaving Wolverton where the canal affected stuff.
Obviously that affects braking performance too A recent accident in Wales that you'd probably add to your list of SPADs was due to a train sliding on a greasy rail. That was on a line being used to test a European type ERTM system with in cab signals.
The railway rule book makes everything an HGV driver needs to know look pretty small beer.
And did I mention route knowledge?
The mixed traffic main line where signals are only a few developmental steps on from semaphore is aeons away from handling Automated Train Operation easily implemented on a tube type system. The nearest we have to that is HS1 and the Chunnel; trains still have a driver,
The nearest we have
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I think the problem with being a train driver is that you finish a shift at eleven at night in Crewe, or somewhere equally awful.
Or you do a little local service several times a day and go mad with boredom.
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I don't think that would bother too many people.
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>> I don't think that would bother too many people. >>
Can't be much worse than city bus driving ?
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NHS. Dentists visits. 2 year rule. Warning. - VxFan
