| Motoring Discussion > Smart Fortwo - Glass Palaces : You have to love them (not) | Miscellaneous |
| Thread Author: tyrednemotional | Replies: 24 |
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Fri 15 Nov 24 17:08
Smart Fortwo - Glass Palaces : You have to love them (not) - tyrednemotional
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The Smart is coming up to its 7th birthday and, whilst it might be seen as a bit of an extravagance at that age, it was booked into the local Smart (read Mercedes Benz) dealer (the original supplier) for its annual service and MOT. The car costs us very little else, with zero VED and low insurance, and the dealer service gives a year's complimentary extension of the breakdown/roadside assistance, which helps defray the cost a bit. Dropped off in Sheffield at 09:30, with a request to have it done by 15:00,and SWMBO and myself took the tram into the City centre. Partaking of a lunchtime coffee, I got a 'phone call to the effect that the technician doing the work couldn't get the bonnet open, and they'd like to charge me diagnostic time, minimum charge one hour, to ascertain why. "I had the bonnet open this morning", I said, "so there shouldn't be any problem". Then I thought "Has he unlocked it?" That elicited the response that he'd go and check with the "technician" and call me back. Five minutes later he followed up with "He says there are catches either side of the bonnet; the RH one moves with no problem, but the LH one won't move, and he doesn't want to force it". "Yes, but has he unlocked it? That catch is the one the lock works on. There's a flip-out cover next to it that exposes a keyhole that accepts the ignition key". "I'll go and check again and call you back". That was followed by complete radio silence, though by now I was fully expecting a call saying they'd got the bonnet open but couldn't find the engine! (it being rear-engined). I subsequently, after a delay, checked the MOT online to find it had been done, so relaxed somewhat. That bonnet lock is a standard fitment on all Smarts of that vintage, and it was at the Smart main dealer! And people sometimes wonder why I choose to do as much work on my own vehicles as I feel comfortable. (When I picked it up, I told the reception guy that my diagnostic time isn't cheap, and it comes at a minimum of an hour - to be fair, he was a bit sheepish). |
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Fri 15 Nov 24 17:42
Smart Fortwo - Glass Palaces : You have to love them (not) - Lygonos
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Mercedes "diagnostic time" was the reason I punted my B250e before its third birthday. Sitting with my nice cup of coffee I would time-and-again hear one of the reception ladies telling a customer "there will be an £xxx diagnostic fee to look at the problem". |
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Fri 15 Nov 24 17:54
Smart Fortwo - Glass Palaces : You have to love them (not) - tyrednemotional
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I can think of circumstances where diagnostic time might be merited......but not to find the manufacturer's standard bonnet lock ;-) ((And I made a mistake. It's coming up to its eighth birthday). |
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Fri 15 Nov 24 18:27
Smart Fortwo - Glass Palaces : You have to love them (not) - Kevin
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| What is the hourly rate for a highly trained main dealer technician in Sheffield these days? |
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Fri 15 Nov 24 18:33
Smart Fortwo - Glass Palaces : You have to love them (not) - tyrednemotional
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I think the rate for a Last edited by: tyrednemotional on Fri 15 Nov 24 at 18:34
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Sun 17 Nov 24 16:58
Smart Fortwo - Glass Palaces : You have to love them (not) - martin aston
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Not quite as bad but I’ve had to correct main dealer Honda, VW and Suzuki dealers about what is in (and out) of the standard manufacture service schedule. Assuming of course the handbook and manufacturer’s webpages are correct. My indie on the other hand works on any car brand and must use a pro database and never been wrong. He even orders engine oil on a per job basis. He gave me a choice of three for my last Golf service. |
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Mon 18 Nov 24 13:03
Smart Fortwo - Glass Palaces : You have to love them (not) - tyrednemotional
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TBH, that's about the worst I've had, though my experience of so-called Fiat "Professional" dealers (i.e. those that maintain commercial vehicles) has repeatedly been so bad that I prefer to do as much work myself on my motorhome as I can. Over the years, at varying locations I've: Had a heated argument with the workshop foreman at one outlet about the service schedule (he was adamant it was annual, whereas the clearly documented Fiat schedule is 2 years 30,000 miles - the engine shared with the Iveco is annual servicing in the latter, and they also serviced Iveco). Had the brake fluid changed and none of the bleed screw dust caps replaced (And I mean left absent, not that no new ones were supplied). Had the service interval not reset. There are two intervals on recent Ducatos, one for the general servicing interval, and one for oil service (which depending on usage patterns might not be in synch - for most motorhomes oil and general service will coincide at every two years). The service was, of course, done by the "YTS" trainee, but the lead Fiat technician didn't know that there were two items to reset, and didn't know how to do it until I walked him through the software (and didn't believe me until we found it). Not resetting the oil service interval leads fairly rapidly to "limp mode". This is a site that services a large fleet of Ducato ambulances with nominally similar requirements. Same site, after service the vehicle wouldn't rev above idle. Completely impossible to drive away (so obviously hadn't been road tested). After much head scratching the same lead tech as above redeemed himself somewhat. In front of a gathering audience of other mechanics, he finally put diagnostics on the vehicle, watched a few values, said "that doesn't look right", removed the air filter, delved his hand in the bottom (it's a large filter box) and pulled a large leaf out. All was then well. The bonnet air intake, when the bonnet is open, is ideally positioned to drop any detritus straight into the air filter box, which it had done (sloppy work really) and there was virtually no air getting to the engine. When you have such experiences, it does make you wonder what else is going on behind the scenes. |
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Mon 18 Nov 24 17:17
Smart Fortwo - Glass Palaces : You have to love them (not) - legacylad
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Rightly or wrongly, I’m keeping my GRYaris serviced within the main dealer network in order to maintain the 10 year warranty, although I cba reading the small print of aforementioned. It’s a small garage, sales and service, no longer independent but part of a group. When I rang to enquire the cost of a small service...oil change, I did tell them that I was shopping around. The price dropped at that point, as I had done when it had a major service the previous year. When I took it in I asked to see the tech doing the work, and would it be ok for me to look underneath whilst up on the hydraulic ramp ? They were ok with that, but politely told that next time I should wear steel toe cap boots. Fair enough. The tech showed me all the ‘bits’ underneath which they check, the normal stuff, in addition to another item which was on their ‘to watch’ list...a particular screw adjacent to the exhaust. It cannot come off, but may need tightening at some point, especially if the vehicle has been on a circuit. I was duly impressed and will continue to use them....for the previous years major service they gave me an almost new Aygo X as a courtesy car. Vitara will continue to go my my pal who is chief MOT tester at a large indie on the outskirts of Leeds...he’s a time served mechanic and runs Honda & Toyota cars for himself & spouse. |
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Thu 28 Nov 24 17:47
Smart Fortwo - Glass Palaces : You have to love them (not) - tyrednemotional
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Following my tangle with Mercedes/Smart, I now have another (unavoidable) opportunity to try out glass (well, in this case as it's "commercial", more plastic but at a similar cost) palaces and diagnostic charging. We've been mulling over changing the motorhome and nearly "pulled the trigger" last week but on reviewing our options we decided that the current 'van, though 6 years old, fits us like a glove, and resolved to run it somewhat longer. That, the current state of the tyres (3mm all round at 33,000 miles! - legal but at my limit) and a Black Friday deal that meant I could get £200 off (actually, around £100 less fitted than the cheapest I could source unfitted) led to a £200 a corner appointment yesterday. When I picked the 'van up, I got a glowplug warning on starting, and it has persisted since. Can't really blame the tyre fitters as they went nowhere near anything involved, though I raised it with them before I left (and they did offer to put it on diagnostics for me). I'm not a great believer in coincidences, but they do sometimes happen. Ducatos are notoriously difficult to work on, though my own diagnostics confirmed a glowplug system problem. Could be the relay, wiring, or glowplug(s) themselves. The relay would have been the best option, but over the various versions it has disappeared further and further into the depths of the engine bay. I couldn't see it (even with inspection light and mirror), and couldn't feel it behind the main engine-bay fusebox, despite postings saying that was possible with the fusebox cover off. In the end, I was convinced that the stated location was correct, and it looked like removing the headlight might give access. I dreaded that, but checking Youtube (well you do don't you) it appeared to be the simplest of jobs (very non-Ducato). Two hex bolts and remove the one wiring loom quick-connector and it slides out! Still took me some time to find the relay (it's secured to the wheelarch by a bolt that is hidden on the other side, and would require the wheel arch liner to be completely removed). With a bit of dexterity, and notes on how the relay locks to its socket, it was however possible to separate them and get access to the socket. That gave the ability to check resistance back through each glowplug by using a multimeter on the respective socket connections. 3 provided resistance readings roughly in spec, the 4th (no. 1 cylinder) was "open circuit" so either wiring issues, or most probably a failed glowplug. I was rather hoping for a relay issue, as it would still have been awkward, but within scope of my DIY skills. Replacing a glowplug is a fraught business at the best of times (when aged, they have a propensity to break on attempted removal), on a Ducato, the access to do it requires a significant amount of dismantling. So, it's booked into a Fiat Professional garage. Mucho diagnostic time will, of course, be charged and then the work itself (assuming my own diagnosis is correct) will also be costly. (I could look for an Indie to do it, but given the nature of the work I'd rather have it with someone I can claim from if it goes wrong). Following on from £800 of tyres, the cost is probably going to mean "Bread and Scrape" for Christmas Dinner in nEmotional Towers. (It could have been even more embarrassing if we had pulled the trigger on a new 'van. It's hardly in a state to p-ex at the moment, though it's quite happy to start immediately on 3 glowplugs at -3C). |
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Tue 3 Dec 24 16:56
Smart Fortwo - Glass Palaces : You have to love them (not) - tyrednemotional
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>> >> So, it's booked into a Fiat Professional garage. Mucho diagnostic time will, of course, be >> charged and then the work itself (assuming my own diagnosis is correct) will also be >> costly. (I could look for an Indie to do it, but given the nature of >> the work I'd rather have it with someone I can claim from if it goes >> wrong). >> I've said before I've not much use for any of the local Fiat Professional garages. The one I booked with above I've used before for minor work, and is really no better than the others, but they have more space and a good secure compound (It may well end up being a multi-day job, especially if the plug(s) break). The receptionist left a sour taste last time with a complete lack of customer facing skills, and a perception on both occasions of me talking directly to a cash register. This time - "6 year old vehicle - that age will mean a minimum of two hours diagnostic time, not one". At £140 p/h +Vat, that looks more like a "booking fee" than a diagnostic charge. Some more of the conversation went a similar way. Anyway I banked the appointment and went looking elsewhere. Whilst it took some time for them to respond, one of the reasonably close motorhome dealers got back to me. They are Fiat Professional qualified, patently equipped to handle motorhomes, and I know they have big workshop premises and secure storage. Labour rates are some 20% lower. Though it means a couple of weeks more to wait (The 'van wasn't intended for use Christmas/New Year anyway) I've switched allegiances. I've actually bought a 'van from them in the past, and am much happier using them (especially as they have a unit in at the moment having glow plug attention). The attitude of the Service Adviser couldn't have been more different. Knew what he was talking about and "We charge for diagnostics at £114 an hour, but try to keep it below that". Then it will be an estimate and a further wait for the work. The 'van is still driveable, (as long as it continues to start!) so we may get a few days away before Christmas anyway, but I now feel much more relaxed about where it's going. (Changing glow plugs on the Ducato is a big job that not all garages can do, and quite a few don't want!) |
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Tue 14 Jan 25 17:24
Smart Fortwo - Glass Palaces : You have to love them (not) - tyrednemotional
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So today was the day. Drove across to Lincoln at sparrowfart and booked the 'van in as the dealer opened. Wasn't really expecting anything but diagnosis confirmation and a quote and an offer of a future booking for remediation. Walked into Lincoln, and within half an hour got a 'phone call confirming my own diagnosis of 1 glow plug borked, and an offer to attempt a fix the same day. Lincoln isn't a difficult journey by public transport for us in prime daytime, but it is out of the question outside that time, so, given uncertain timing and the distinct possibility of a sheared glow plug requiring further specialist attention, we agreed to leave it at least overnight, return home today in the day, and collect tomorrow subject to it being complete. Halfway home, I got the call that it was successfully done, but it was too late to contemplate returning, so tomorrow it's a trip on the train back to Lincoln (SWMBO can drop me at a local station, and I've managed to save 50% on the fare by pre-booking). They have a very secure compound in which much of their stock is stored, and my 'van is now there (or at least, the tracker thinks so!) Quoted cost (though we'll see tomorrow) wasn't cheap, but rather less than I was expecting. I suspect there's been about 3-4 hours labour in there (though, if it's the one plug I diagnosed, they might have got by with less time and limited dismantling). Anyway, though I was 95%+ sure of my diagnosis, there's no way I was going to attempt a glow plug, given their propensity to shear off, and especially not on my drive at this time of year! I could have considered replacing all four if they actually did fully dismantle, but that increases the chance of shearing one by a factor of four, so I let sleeping dogs lie. |
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Wed 15 Jan 25 20:14
Smart Fortwo - Glass Palaces : You have to love them (not) - tyrednemotional
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Cost was just short of a monkey, including diagnostics and VAT. 3 Hours labour charged for the replacement job, which again, is less than I originally expected, but I think the failed glow plug was one that required the lowest level of dismantling. Part itself was only just over £20 even at Fiat dealer prices. I considered asking for all four to be replaced whilst the front was dismantled, but I suspect that would have required more bits off, and, of course, would have increased the odds on shearing one off by a factor of four. I could probably have done it myself, given I'm told the plug came out with no issues at all, but I wasn't to know that, and my drive in this weather doesn't make a good workshop. (Apparently, if they do shear off, the Diesel specialist directly opposite does their drill extraction or head off work, for both glow plugs and injectors - there were two motorhomes in their yard as I walked past this morning!). Apparently, the service guy was expecting (as was I) to do diagnostics yesterday, quote, and make me a future appointment, but they'd had a cancellation, and the workshop foreman volunteered to finish the job same day (not personally, I think). All now seems back to normal, fingers crossed. |
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Thu 16 Jan 25 09:39
Smart Fortwo - Glass Palaces : You have to love them (not) - Kevin
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The 440 went in for a service this morning and I've found myself with a MINI courtesy car. It's a Massey Ferguson auto 'S' version and Oh my Glub, what an awful vehicle. |
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Sat 30 Nov 24 21:59
Smart Fortwo - Glass Palaces : You have to love them (not) - Bill Payer
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>> Not quite as bad but I’ve had to correct main dealer Honda, VW and Suzuki >> dealers about what is in (and out) of the standard manufacture service schedule. Assuming of >> course the handbook and manufacturer’s webpages are correct. Have had various VW Group cars i the family over the years and they do change the work required over time / mileage from time to time. They have an internal software system which should produce the correct info but I've still been told the wrong thing by delaers and even by VW directly. Currently in the process of buying a Hyundai EV and dealer salesman told me service interval was 10K/ 1yr. Bit of an issue for us as the car will be doing 20K/yr. I know the interval is 20K/2yrs so queried this again. What bemuses me is there's no doubt in his mind he's correct so he won't even check. So I grabbed the service manager. She said the same thing! I gave up at that point and ordered the car through a broker. |
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Sun 1 Dec 24 09:49
Smart Fortwo - Glass Palaces : You have to love them (not) - Zero
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Service intervals vary by country. BMW's for example halve the service intervals in the USA. Nothing to do with environment or climate, merely to pander to the yanks motoring folklore and are obsessed with 3k mile 'cheap lube jobs', taking their car to a "jiffy lube" where they often use nasty cheap oil, rarely change the filter, and sometimes get charged without even changing oil. Meanwhile everything else gets ignored and they end up driving with no brake disks, drop links, split CV joints. et etc |
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Thu 6 Nov 25 09:02
Smart Fortwo - Glass Palaces : You have to love them (not) - tyrednemotional
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Further to the shenanigans last year, and compounded by a review of the service documentation (things like "check expiry date of tyre-sealant - not in car" - it was, in the standard Smart position under the passenger footwell*), I decided that, at 9 years old it really wasn't sensible to continue with main dealer servicing. Choice now was an indie, or DIY. The service regime is basically alternating A and B services, neither of which are particularly onerous. The A service which was due is fundamentally Oil/Filter change, Pollen Filter and then mostly visual checks. The internet revealed that the oil filter change was going to be a pig, but it all looked do-able, and I already had the small number of required tools. Patently, I wouldn't be able to do any software updates, but at 9 years old....... Last "A" service cost me around £290, but with the added bonus of another year's MB recovery service. Quality parts for the same cost me just over £60. So, yesterday, up on the ramps late afternoon and just enough room to work underneath. The oil filter was a pig. It's at the front of the engine (and given it's rear-engined that's the back of the engine when working on it), recessed, difficult to see, and very little clearance round it - just enough to get the strap from a strap-wrench on it. It took me five attempts to loosen it (as I might have expected, it had been significantly more than hand-tightened when fitted). It would have been easier working with a pit or a lift, but at least I managed it. Once done, the oil/filter change was simple. The pollen filter should have been, but removing/fitting it was obstructed by semi-rigid electrical cable (a legacy of a car originally being designed as LHD, I would presume). Eventually, I managed to manoeuvre it in, after giving the cavity a vacuum clean to remove copious leaves. (And discovering that the retaining screw for the cover had been removed in the past and not replaced). Service interval reset was surprisingly easy. Toggle to the "service" display on the dash, and hold down the OK button (for about a minute). So, I've a few visuals to still do (I finished in the dark), but I'm about £230 sovs better off, know what has been done (and done properly), and a more comprehensive recovery option added to the insurance will defray only a small portion of that. So, at 9 years old, it's soldiering on (subject to impending MOT). It cost just over £9K, pre-reg with 9 miles on the clock, 9 years ago as a version with all the toys (list in excess of £14K). It has had a new battery and tyres on all corners, and front wiper blades - no other expense. As probably the best value vehicle I've had, It will get run into the ground. I confeest to being a bit stiff this morning, though. ;-)i *The tyre gunk was date expired, and I knew anyway. It now has a replacement can. |
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Thu 6 Nov 25 13:51
Smart Fortwo - Glass Palaces : You have to love them (not) - ChrisM
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Would one of these of the correct size help? It certainly does for my Astra. ebay.us/m/YDgcJU |
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Thu 6 Nov 25 19:13
Smart Fortwo - Glass Palaces : You have to love them (not) - tyrednemotional
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| A "Spider" type was under consideration as the clearance really is very tight. I reckoned I'd try first with the strap wrench and then seek another solution if I failed. (I wasn't going to drop the oil before being sure I could get the filter loose). It was adequate, but working well under a ramped car with everything at the "wrong" angle wasn't fun. |
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Fri 14 Nov 25 09:00
Smart Fortwo - Glass Palaces : You have to love them (not) - tyrednemotional
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And...at the end of its 9th year, the Smart has just passed its MOT agai. Advisory on rear numberplate where water ingress into the lamination has made it a bit "mucky". (I might even treat it!) Apart from regular servicing, and a new door handle under warranty, it has cost me a new battery and four new tyres in that time. £5K off list, zero VED (until next renewal, where it is now £20) and cheap insurance has made it a very low-cost purchase, and I still enjoy driving it. |
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Fri 14 Nov 25 09:21
Smart Fortwo - Glass Palaces : You have to love them (not) - Falkirk Bairn
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A son's BMW 235 is being serviced today. Service foc as it was part of the new car contract. He booked it in 3 weeks ago. Phone call yesterday. Service department "You have booked your car in incorrectly". You booked your car in for a 2 year service BUT you did not book your car in for a brake fluid change!!! We will need to cancel your service and re-book a service + brake fluid change. Luckily, we have had a service cancellation and we can now do the service & brake fluid change tomorrow! Surely a standard service at 2 years, that requires a brake fluid change, should be an automatic entry in their system. Apparently not! It's a 30 minute job at most especially as the car will already be on the ramps. |
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Fri 14 Nov 25 10:19
Smart Fortwo - Glass Palaces : You have to love them (not) - smokie
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Took my MG5 EV in for 1st service yesterday. Only 5500 miles. The previous one cost me £40something for 1st service three years ago. This was £115 (except I paid a plan). I did mention that nothing much happens in a service which he agreed with but he mentioned in passing the service rate is £150 ph. I get free AA with an MG service which makes it worthwhile. Last edited by: smokie on Fri 14 Nov 25 at 10:20
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Fri 14 Nov 25 10:33
Smart Fortwo - Glass Palaces : You have to love them (not) - Fullchat
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"It's a 30 minute job at most especially as the car will already be on the ramps." You've contextually reinstated me into my long running sagas of Kia workshops charging me for brake fluid changes which were clearly not completed :( In the grand scheme of things another quick service could be completed in that 30 mins when your brakes are being bled. |
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Fri 14 Nov 25 10:48
Smart Fortwo - Glass Palaces : You have to love them (not) - tyrednemotional
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The Smart has been MOT'd at service time previously. Abandonment of the main dealer for this has been covered above. There were always "Customer" add-ons to the dealer service (brake-fluid, etc) not covered in the base price And that was my experience of BMW servicing as well). I was going to book my Smart online into the local coach/bus garage that has done my motorhomes but decided I'd try the village garage (walking distance and it keeps village businesses going). Much sucking of teeth when I wanted it doing this week (couple of weeks to go, but my availability over that is rather restricted). Booked it in for today at 08:00, though, and checking online it was done before 09:00. Only £45 as well (there is competition from MOT-only places locally, but not within walking distance). So, c£60 for me servicing it, c£40 to add a year's recovery (but pro-rata to the end of insurance year, RAC and better terms than MB/Smart provided free with service) and £45 for MOT. That's against MB/Smart price approximately £350 all in. With a £200 saving I think I can treat it to a new rear number plate. I do understand the concept of overheads, but it does put the dealer costs into sharp relief (especially as they can't demonstrate they know what they're doing). |
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Fri 14 Nov 25 13:10
Smart Fortwo - Glass Palaces : You have to love them (not) - Zero
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Firstly, the service requirements will be available in the I-drive, on my g31 540i its every three years. If it's a BMW dealer they should have interrogated the system remotely va the inbuilt sim (specially if you book service via the I-drive) Secondly it's not just drain and fill on a BMW. Its connected to a pressurised fill machine, and while connected to the drags, the system exercises the abs valves, tells the operator when to open the bleed valves and when to close them. |
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Fri 14 Nov 25 16:42
Smart Fortwo - Glass Palaces : You have to love them (not) - martin aston
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My indie uses a trade service database and it’s been spot on for our previous Mazda and current Suzuki and VW. The only “errors” have been at the first service estimate that he provided. The previous Suzuki dealer had done some of the routine items out of synch. Easily sorted by the indie because he gives a fully itemised estimate and I could add/delete as necessary to bring it into line. He also gives options of OEM or pattern parts. He also completes manufacturer online service records where applicable. I know we no longer have the extended service warranty we could have on the Vitara if we’d stuck with the main dealer. However our main dealer service experience was not great and the idea of doing battle in a glass palace with waiting lists running into weeks (even months!) does not appeal. |
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