Non-motoring > Caravan or Campervan Miscellaneous
Thread Author: Bromptonaut Replies: 50

 Caravan or Campervan - Bromptonaut
Our 304 and the Berlingo are now past their tenth anniversary and we're thinking about what would replace them.

Initial thoughts were around another caravan, trying to avoid a layout that needs one of us to clamber over the other when we need a widdle in the night. Don't however want something massively bigger and the facility in the current 'van but space where one can sit at a table while the other is in bed is a red line. I think a bigger version of Zeddo's Basecamp might fit the bill bit few other offers.

Towcar might be a Skoda Superb estate or, bargain option, a Dacia Duster.

Last year we hired a fairly basic Campervan, a VW Transporter conversion, for a trip to the Western Isles when the Hearach Whisky was released. We regarded it as a one off experiment but actually quite liked it; to the extent we're now umming and ahhing over a campervan.

Coming back from our daughter's last weekend we stopped a Venture Caravans on the A5 as there was a cluster of VW conversions on their forecourt. Turns out they've branched out and now do van conversions under the Redline brand.

Budget is around the £50-60k mark - combined cost of car and 'van would be in that ballpark.

Trying to produce a specification for what we need looks something like:

Overall length not to exceed six metres - Max allowed at car rates on Cal MAc
4 berths so we can entertain grandchildren
5 passenger seats - it will be the family car as well as a leisure vehicle
Heating from either gas, electric or, and this seems the thing, diesel
Hob and oven/grill for cooking
Realistically, and this is the sticky one, we need a loo.

None of the Redline models tick the last box except with a Portapotty and tent option but some versions of the Transit based Ford Nugget do as do some other VW adaptations.

What does the panel suggest?
 Caravan or Campervan - smokie
Hotel rooms. :-) You'd get quite a few of them for £50k.
 Caravan or Campervan - CGNorwich
Yep, they all have loos too.
 Caravan or Campervan - Runfer D'Hills
We are a bit tempted by one of these. Maybe, possibly…

youtu.be/tqUeMOAP_Z4?si=AWHq2vrQVKJSmnDY
 Caravan or Campervan - Bobby
Watching this thread with interest.

In my head I convince myself as I do such a low mileage I could get rid of my BMW X1 and buy a camper van for day to day use as well as using as a van to go away with the missus and the dog.
Then I sit in one and the actual living space is about the size of the rug in my living room and I picture the two of us and a Labrador sitting round that and then think na, we would kill each other.

I realise the done thing is awnings of some sort but my budget would probably not stretch to a very modern van so would then end up with a day to day vehicle being quite outdated from the drivers seat.

Incidentally, contemplated caravan as well and my pre requisite was the same, must be possible for one to be in bed whilst the other still had sitting space. I always go to bed first and and up first in morning.

But got put off by stories saying I would need modifications to my car if putting a lowball on to do with it being automatic.
 Caravan or Campervan - Bobby
And as an edit, my neighbour bought a caravan second hand for about 3 grand. Sits in their driveway. By all accounts it is bone dry, certainly looks good from inside. Think they only paid 3 or 4 grand for it.
But it’s never moved. She has decided that she is too scared to be in the car whilst it’s towing the van so hubby would need to take the caravan to site. Set it up. Then drive back to pick her up. And her 6 Lhasa apso dogs!!!
At some point it will be put up for sale again!
 Caravan or Campervan - zippy
>> And her 6 Lhasa apso dogs!!!

We have one, and she's hard work!
 Caravan or Campervan - Zero
Currently on tour in the Basecamp. Done 3 days at Looe, today we decamped to a dog show on a football field on Dartmoor, Lee Moor. So that's me wife two dogs, few days on serviced pitch, now off grid for 3 days. In a caravan shorter than the beemer. It works well, two single beds, shower, bog, heating, fridge, oven.

Not sure where you get the changes to the auto box thing.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 10 May 24 at 20:52
 Caravan or Campervan - Bobby

Not sure where you get the changes to the auto box thing.

Was something (allegedly) to do with if you ordered the towing pack from the factory it came with (I think) upgraded cooling fans or such like??
 Caravan or Campervan - Runfer D'Hills
I was last in Looe as a child. Seem to think I enjoyed it. Might go back one day. I remember it took a long time to get there from Edinburgh in my dad’s Wolseley 6/110. Without checking, as I guess it was around ‘65 or ‘66, that there maybe wasn’t as much motorway for him to use then.
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Fri 10 May 24 at 23:10
 Caravan or Campervan - Bobby
What size is your Basecamp Zero?
After your post I looked online and they do seem “funkier” than traditional caravans?
Almost like an SUV version of a hatchback.
What is their USP?
 Caravan or Campervan - Zero
>> What size is your Basecamp Zero?

Its a basecamp 2, thats two berth. comes in at about 5 metres total length I think.

>> After your post I looked online and they do seem “funkier” than traditional caravans?

They are, none of your velour tasseled cushions and twee chintzy curtains here.

>> Almost like an SUV version of a hatchback.
>> What is their USP?

Unparalleled* space utilisation, convenience and ergonomics. Large double bed/or two singles, toilet/shower, oven and separate grill, three burner hob, both gas. fridge gas or mains, blown air heating (mains or gas) plentiful hot water (mains or gas). In a small but perfectly useable package. Its genius. Its a good place to be off grid with a built in solar panel. SUV? yes very much so, very stable ( I aquaplaned ((unplanned I hasten to add)) the lot in a perfectly controlled 6 wheel drift round a roundabout in a rainstorm in Plymouth this morning), a doddle to tow.

*And I checked out a lot, Adria Action, Knaus sport and fun, The small Bailey, and all of them are flawed in some way to the basecamp.

Last edited by: Zero on Mon 13 May 24 at 16:06
 Caravan or Campervan - Bromptonaut
>> *And I checked out a lot, Adria Action, Knaus sport and fun, The small Bailey,
>> and all of them are flawed in some way to the basecamp.

We looked at the small Bailey with a similar dinette layout to the Xplore 304 but it seems half the space under the table is occupied by what seems to be the service duct for heating etc.

Ours has a reputation for being Tardis like inside. The Basecamp 4 is similar to ours too. It is, in some, ways better but the space for kit like bikes may mean that when we looked at it it seemed less attractive as a living space.
 Caravan or Campervan - bathtub tom
>> I aquaplaned ((unplanned I hasten to add)) the lot in a perfectly controlled 6 wheel drift round a roundabout in a >>rainstorm in Plymouth this morning),

I did that once with a dinghy trailer, but I was 'making progress'. I got the impression the trailer made it more stable and stayed right behind the car in a straight line.
 Caravan or Campervan - Zero

>> I got
>> the impression the trailer made it more stable and stayed right behind the car in
>> a straight line.

Yes, that very thing,


 Caravan or Campervan - smokie
I remember the caravan starting to snake once when I was overdoing the loud pedal on a downhill bit of the road to Cornwall years ago. As I was in the 3l Omega I did the trick of accelerating out of it, which with hindsight was rather dangerous as I think my terminal speed was somewhere around 80.
 Caravan or Campervan - Zero
>> I remember the caravan starting to snake once when I was overdoing the loud pedal
>> on a downhill bit of the road to Cornwall years ago.

In 8.5k miles, The basecamp has never ever snaked on me, not a sniff or twitch even under some silly speeds, winds, lorry wake turbulence. Mind you I wouldnt expect it too, the physics for tail wagging simply dont apply in my outfit.

Car (loaded) 2000kg. Basecamp (loaded to max) 1300kg.
Car 5 metres long. Basecamp. 5.1 metres long.
Car 340hp 4 wheel drive self levelling rear suspension. Basecamp zilch.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 14 May 24 at 09:25
 Caravan or Campervan - bathtub tom
>>I remember the caravan starting to snake once

I only ever experienced it once, with my first 'van, a Bailey that a previous owner had replaced the rear larder with a lavatory, that I suspect made it a little heavier at the rear.
Cresting a brow, there was a downhill stretch to a 30MPH limit and I lifted off! I managed to gather it all together. I solved it by loading the van more carefully and fitting rear spring assisters (Maxi), that made a surprising improvement to the 'turn in' without the 'van.
 Caravan or Campervan - Bromptonaut
The Xplore 304 in the Berlingo is pretty stable too.

If you're going fast, and because the Gross Train Weight is less that 3,500kg you can do up to 130kph in France, then you can feel it whip a bit passing large trucks. That and the fuel use at high speed are good reasons not to go over 110.

Only time I ever thought there was an imminent snake was on a French autoroute when passed by a large truck and trapped between it and a 6ft high concrete barrier. More wind buffet than actual instability and it sorted itself out easily enough.

Pretty careful with loading but there's a tension between getting the noseweight too high requiring stuff like the awning to be aft of the wheels and having weigh too far back.
 Caravan or Campervan - Zero
Always pop mine on the Nose weight gauge before I go. Max nose weight is 100 kilos, its best weight for stability and ride is 80kg,
 Caravan or Campervan - Zero
Video of Basecamp is on the drone thread.
 Caravan or Campervan - smokie
I didn't know back in those days much about weight, loading etc. I just used to pile everything in and off we went. Not clever but that's how it was... it must have been well overloaded on trips to Le Mans where I was carrying equipment and bikes etc for 6...
 Caravan or Campervan - Bromptonaut
Can you remind me which Basecamp model you have?

Do you have the rear end awning?
 Caravan or Campervan - Runfer D'Hills
He’s had all sorts of bother with that, but I don’t think it needed an awning…
;-)
 Caravan or Campervan - Zero
>> He’s had all sorts of bother with that, but I don’t think it needed an
>> awning…
>> ;-)

Well it kinda did for 9 months.
 Caravan or Campervan - Zero
>> Can you remind me which Basecamp model you have?

Its a 2020 model basecamp 2.

>> Do you have the rear end awning?

Yes I have the large RVA 1 awning, made for the BC, but its very big and a bitch to get on the awning rail. Its only been used once for a 10 day stay on the IoW, and we had friends visit for a Paella party and disco in it.. Most BC owners sell them on to unsuspecting punters.

I bought the Dometic rally 200 poled version to go on the back, and is the awning of choice, quick to put up, versatile, quick to put down in the rain (which in torrential rain in Plymouth this morning I had to)

I also have the new Isabella Shade 200 sun canopy, very fast to put up, its the weekend summer option.
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 13 May 24 at 15:51
 Caravan or Campervan - Bobby
They breed them.
There are currently 6 adults and 7 new born pups next door….
 Caravan or Campervan - R.P.

We are a bit tempted by one of these. Maybe, possibly...


Isn't Johnny Smith's YouTube channel great !? Well produced with genuinely interesting stuff, especially the "Barn Finds".

That T7 looks very nice to be fair.
 Caravan or Campervan - Runfer D'Hills
>> That T7 looks very nice to be fair.

It does. Not cheap, but I’m a bit of a “buy once buy good fan”. If I like something and it works for me, I’ll tend to keep it for a long time.
Nothing decided yet, but such a thing could possibly be on my radar.
Dunno yet!
;-)
 Caravan or Campervan - Zero
The voice of camper van over caravan boils down to two distinct problems / options. Storage parking when not in use, and transport at your destination. If you have e-bikes and no dogs the second one solves itself.

If van / camper conversion is your choice, it's not going to meet the loo/kids/sleeping-clambering requirements. In your shoes and to meet the requirements, I would go for a proper small motorhome, and strap bikes on the back. Friends of mine have bought a very nice Adria
 Caravan or Campervan - Biggles
Or a camper van with its own little Smart parked in its garage.
 Caravan or Campervan - bathtub tom
>> Or a camper van with its own little Smart parked in its garage.

Makes me laugh when I see a motor caravan with a little car behind. I think why on earth didn't they just buy a caravan and tow that?
Back in my caravanning days, I'd never consider a motor caravan. You'd have to pack up all your stuff and stow it to use the motor to get any where.
Would you be able to park back where you left when you get back?
The cost of a car and caravan was much less than a motor caravan.
We had a toilet tent that erected inside the caravan awning. Less smelly than inside the 'van!
 Caravan or Campervan - Fullchat
We have given some thought to this very issue and done some looking and got precisely nowhere.
Partly (or largely) due to Mrs FC wanting a VW style van and myself wanting a much larger van conversion style. Motorhome doesn't feature.
I could thing of nothing worse than being cooped up in the back of a relatively small van on a wet miserable day. I would also want 'facilities' of a standard and just a little bit of space. be able to survive 'off grid' for a couple of days in relative comfort.
Now you either buy into the concept and have it as an additional vehicle on your fleet or if you are blessed with more than one then it becomes a replacement capable of a trip to Morrisons, Screwfix and the tip. As an additional vehicle there are all the usual expenses - tax, insurance MOTs and servicing for realistically not a lot of miles. Depreciation and space to park as well.
If you do go down that route then that is your transport as well unless you work your holiday around maximising the use of pedal cycles.
A van I would chose would preferably have an end bed/s which wouldn't need making up every night. A high double would give a good storage area underneath accessible from the back.( This was recommended by someone who has one and I get it). Somewhere to store all your walking kit in whatever state it may be. Some have singles also convertible to a double. But the more you have the bigger the van required.
I really do get it and its a big itch that needs scratching. Touring say Scotland and Ireland with relative freedom in lovely weather is an idyllic dream. The investment though is massive. But they seem to hold their prices. As said its a lot of nice hotel rooms or cottages but again you're having to play the booking game well in advance in peak season.
An option would be to rent one for a short while and try it. Although £!000 a week is a lot of money to put towards a purchase.
Ive done the caravan bit when the kids were young but its not something I fancy doing again.


Last edited by: Fullchat on Fri 10 May 24 at 23:20
 Caravan or Campervan - zippy
>> Makes me laugh when I see a motor caravan with a little car behind.

This is quite cool though. Bit of a problem getting around some of the country lanes in Cornwall though!

search.app.goo.gl/r9TqPaU
 Caravan or Campervan - Bromptonaut
>> I would go for a proper
>> small motorhome, and strap bikes on the back. Friends of mine have bought a very
>> nice Adria

If a small motorhome is the answer then we'll stick with the Xplore a bit longer. In spite of my best efforts to kill it by driving under something too low it's still watertight. Even if I'd not knacked it the warranty for water penetration is within a week or two of expiring. Apart from the bed issue, which might be eased by swapping sides, it's ideal for us. Even when our grandson is old enough to come with us we can sort it for him.

A few, see the Nugget above, seem to tick my boxes though I didn't include space for the Bromptons. Similar conclusion at the NEC show last October. A driveaway awning would be part of the setup.

Realistically there's no rush, just testing the water.

Actually the more pressing issue might be the 'lingo.
 Caravan or Campervan - tyrednemotional
Wrote quite a long reply to this last night then lost it (dodgy alpen wi-fi).

You've a better chance of finding the holy grail than meeting all your listed requirements, Bromp.

FC has captured some of the stuff above (possibly from my previous postings).

Wall to wall sun here again this morning, so off to the mountains, may try again this evening.
 Caravan or Campervan - Runfer D'Hills
I think, for us anyway, the attraction of a Transporter/Transit sized camper would be that it could be used as a car when it wasn’t being used as a camper. In other words it could possibly replace our large estate car.
As a platform for extending our range of options in support of our mountain biking pastime, we could see such a thing being useful. Whether we’d want to use it for extended holidays is another matter. Although a combination of a vehicle like that and a tent to supplement it on longer trips could maybe work for us.
A large motorhome or caravan feels a bit too much of a commitment right now, but who knows eh?
 Caravan or Campervan - tyrednemotional
Well, back after 14 miles or so (yesterday was above the snow line, so today a little lower) so here goes.

A VW conversion will be very claustrophobic, and relatively impractical for 2+2. People do it; we did with 2+1 and it was an improvement on a tent, but it would be a retrograde step from a reasonably spacious caravan. A drive-away awning might seem like a good idea, but the number of nearly-new ones advertised for sale indicates how many find them less than practical/useful. (Frankly, if you have to rely on one, you're probably better off with a caravan).

Very few such conversions have toilet provision other than a porta-potti, and if they do, it impinges on other space.

5 belted seats is also a rarity (across all campervan models).

Vans are always a compromise, if you want some things you generally have to sacrifice others. e.g. for fixed beds you sacrifice some lounging comfort/space, for smaller size you sacrifice dedicated toilet space, etc.

Patently, people's priorities are different, but for me, the best compromise here is a 6m van* with a forward dinette, raised rear transverse bed, and side kitchen and dedicated loo/shower. The best conversions like this are largely European (imported in RHD), and may not have an oven as standard. Heating will be diesel or gas (and many for the UK market will have had the electric additional option added).

The rear fixed bed gives a lot of storage underneath which keeps outdoor gear well away from the main living quarters. That's 2 berths, but many will make a single bed as an option from the dinette; possibly big enough for two tots. Best option, though, is either a rising roof with beds, (wouldn't be my favourite) or a fixed high roof with the same (much more weather-proof and warmer). Beds in the roof for the kids leaves you somewhere to sit when you've tucked them away.

Traditionally these conversions have been on the Fiat Ducato and siblings, but the full size Transit might now be an option. I might favour the latter slightly.

*In reality, for me the best compromise is a 6.4m van with raised longitudinal single beds (convertible to a double), because anyone over 6ft ( and less in some vans) is likely to be challenged by a transverse bed.

I wouldn't buy a van without a proper loo - far too restrictive for a proper use.

Lots more I could say, but that's a starter for now. TnE, overlooking the Alps, with a glass of Weissburgunder to hand.

(I shall post a bit later on campervan/motorhome vs caravan)
Last edited by: tyrednemotional on Sat 11 May 24 at 17:25
 Caravan or Campervan - tyrednemotional
And now for campervans/motorhomes vs caravans. This is a bit long, so feel free to ignore. Dashed it off, and as the saying goes, if I'd had longer it would have been shorter.

Excuse any typos, not easy to check on a tablet.

The fundamental thing is that, though they each might crossover somewhat caravans and campervans are generally suitable for entirely different usage.

A caravan lends itself to being used as a fixed base for some extended time, exploring from it via the towcar, whilst a campervan/motorhome lends itself to shorter stays, exploring by foot, bike, or public transport, and regularly moving on.

The different styles tend to suit different people.

A campervan can go most places, and by most routes that a car and caravan can, but not vv, and it's easier to do the longer, exploratory road trips without a shed in tow. (Think Finland or Norway above the Arctic Circle).

I've never much enjoyed towing, so a campervan was a natural migration from tents. With a growing family that evolved into motorhome use, we're now about 35 years in, and back to two again.

I could proselytise for England on the subject of motorhomes, but its only for you if the exploratory touring lifestyle appeals. (at least, in comparison to a caravan)

The term campervan can be used in various forms, but here I'll consider it in the context of something like the classic VW conversion, with basic sleeping and cooking facilities, but little else. It's also used for some larger panel van conversions (PVC) which are more compact than a classic motorhome, but share more of the features, with better sleeping arrangements, more sophisticated equipment , (IMO critically, a bog, and often a shower). I consider these PVCs to be more synonymous with the larger motorhome, and will consider them in that light, not as a campervan.

The classic campervan can almost be considered as a "tin tent", not being entirely self-contained, and for extended touring is likely dependent on campsite usage. A porta-potti can extend it's capabilities, but two-up you then have to be good friends, and taking a stroll outside in the rain to provide privacy is not fun.

Having moved on from these over time, I'm only too aware of the downsides vs something slightly larger and better equipped. The main upside is that it might be possible to use it as an only vehicle (People do get sucked in to the VW camper lifestyle vibe, without fully considering practicalities,though).

A motorhome/PVC is a different matter. Self-contained, it provides much more flexibility. This has some advantages in the UK, but significant ones if intending European touring. If I were to restrict my use to the UK, then I think I would have abandoned motorhoming by now. The van does get significant use in the UK, but the majority of our enjoyment comes from European touring, 2 sessions of 3 to 4 weeks each a year. It is possible to use the smaller PVCs as a second vehicle, (in our early years SWMVO did), but I personally wouldn't want it to be an *only* vehicle.

The UK and Continental experiences are entirely different.

In the UK, unless you wild camp (a misnomer in many cases) you're largely restricted to campsites, or if a club member one of their 5 van sites, and booking is largely expected. We do also use the club's Temporary Holiday Sites which are rather less restrictive. On each of the latter 2 you are likely to have to be self-contained (i.e. not bogless). The sites are no longer cheap. (Though, of course, most prices have risen). Quite often the locations aren't the best without other transport, even for walkers and cyclists, but the 5 van sites can provide idyllic surroundings.

On the continent, for a motorhome as opposed to a caravan, things are entirely different. France, Germany, Italy, have a vast network of official motorhome-only sites (Aires, Stellplätze, Sostas) and a number of other countries have similar provision (Scandinavian marinas as an example). Many are very well located in or around small towns and vilages. Migrating from using campsites to these is a rite of passage, but it makes touring the continent easy, flexible and enjoyable. It's also cheap, which isn't really part of the incentive to me, but it can help defray capital costs, and certainly contributes to the drinking and dining-out budget.

The simplest are overnight parking with no facilities; most will have fresh water and disposal facilities, it's now pretty common to find electric hookups, and a minority will have access to sanitary facilities (sometimes basic). There is thus a general need to have your own toilet facilities. They vary in ambience and quality - and price which isn't necessarily reflective of these. We've become quite adept at finding those we consider good.

In all our years, with 3* exceptions tying in with ferries, (Delpht, Dublin, and Helsinki), I've never booked anywhere on the Continent, and found campsites relatively easily. Aires/Stellplätze make things even easier, no booking, stay if you want, move if/when you don't.

So, our Continental holidays consist of a few targeted places to visit, and interim destinations decided on the way, where serendipity takes over. This latter is really good fun, and provides many interesting discoveries. Since we're flexible, we tend to chase the weather, and have been known to end up in entirely different countries to those planned!

Using our current tour as an example, SWMBO wanted the Alps, and more specifically our current location at Obermaiselstein, from which we were rained off last year.

First night was on the official motorhome parking at Canterbury P&R. £8 overnight, and an evening in Canterbury for a drink/meal. Being only 30 mins to the tunnel this makes for a relaxed 10:00 crossing. It's basically dedicated parking, but water and disposal are available if required.

Using the tunnel a lot means we've exhausted most of the immediate obvious overnights the other side, but I'd noted a new Aire at Tournai, in Belgium. Overnights there used to be in a car park off the ring road (an ambience we've never fancied), but the new, automated 12 van site was dedicated, well positioned, and only 3 minutes walk to the centre. 2.5 hours from the tunnel with an allowance for shopping meant we could have much of the afternoon and evening exploring. Unlike many, this was actually bookable (easily) on the web, so it became the 4th* site ever booked on the Continent. A QR code by email provided access through the barrier, and unlimited water. The cost was €8, and included electric, water and disposal. It was full overnight and proved to be a good choice, reviews had warned of road noise, and I could believe it, but it was quiet overnight for us until after 07:00. Tournai was, well, Belgian. A bit grey, but with interesting nooks and crannies, plenty of bars and restaurants, and the Scheldt running through the centre with traffic light controlled shipping (and an interesting lifting bridge). We won't rush back, but don't regret the visit.

We wanted to make reasonably rapid progress South, so the next planned stopover was another new Aire in small-town mid-France at Vic-sur-Seille. On the edge of town with with around 12 separate emplacements, payment by card of €5.60, we had this to ourselves. Electricity, water*, and disposal were included (*in theory the water was chargeable at an extortionate rate, but it dispensed free), and we got free WiFi for most of our stay. Not much in Vic ( a couple of Boulangeries, a shop and a couple of Restaurants) but it's easy to chill wandering round warm, small town France, especially eating al-fresco back at the van.

As it was a transit stop, we then headed off to the Black Forest, where the weather forecast was reasonable, and that for the Alps wasn't. We've stayed on a good number of Stellplätze here, all enjoyable, but wanted somewhere new. We ended up in the hills at Oberprechtal, on a Stellplatz that would take 12 vans, behind the Tourist Information overlooking open fields and the valley below. Price was €12 per night, delivered through the TI letterbox as it was closed for the w/e. Water, electricity, WiFi and disposal all included, and the very acceptable toilets adjoining the TI were open full-time. We had 3 neighbours the first night, and because the weather was decent we stayed a second night in splendid isolation. The walking direct from the van was excellent both days (The Black Forest can be a bit mixed for this, but it was one of the better locations). We dined at the van both nights, partly because of the ambience, and partly because the nearest Restaurant was Michelin listed and expensive.

The weather forecast was iffy, but due to improve in the Alps in a couple of days, so we decided Ulm might provide some diversion if it was showery. The Stellplatz there adjoins the swimming bath and leisure complex on the banks of the Donau, and about 25mins walk along the river to the Münster. Marked emplacements are €14 per night, (card payment) with electricity slot metered (€4 per night for me), fresh water chargeable (but so much pre-paid it was generally free) and free WiFi and disposal. Ulm was an OK-ish sort of place, good for a wander, with fewer showers than we expected, and, awaiting the better weather further South, we stayed another day, eating in the centre both evenings.

Though still showery, the forecast for the Alps was much improved, so we set off for Obermaiselstein, under the higher Alps near Oberstdorf. The Stellplatz here overlooks the mountains and is in a wonderful setting on the edge of the village. Arriving on the Wednesday at the start of an extended weekend, it was already busy but we snaffled the last of the good pitches (it was *very* busy over the weekend, but quiet as I type). €14 per night, plus €2.50 pp Kurtaxe, plus €3 per night electricity. Book in and out with the owner who's onsite morning and evening, pay when you leave). There are free toilets and showers for €1, water and disposal included. The Kurtaxe gives you free local buses and minor reductions on lifts, etc. The walking and cycling (all grades and gradients) direct from site is stunning in quality and overwhelming in variety. We've walked almost 50 miles in the last 4 days, including above the snow-line, (the MTB bods were giving up there) and lower down with stops for lunches.

The forecast is less promising for tomorrow, so we're moving on. Closer to Munich it looks much better (less mountain effect) so we'll probably jump 50 miles or so. I'm researching new places, but we have a couple of (very different) old favourites, so we won't struggle.

So..... that's what I consider to be the appropriate use for a motorhome (this side of the Channel at least). A caravan wouldn't be allowed on any of the locations (and the touring style wouldn't really suit anyway). A bogless campervan wouldn't work in most of them, but a 6m+ Panel Van Conversion would be fine, along with a conventional motorhome. It's relatively cheap, but it's the flexibility and exploration that's the attraction.

To anyone who got as far as this, congratulations (and it's all lies anyway. ;-) ).
 Caravan or Campervan - Crankcase
Thanks for typing all that. As someone who almost went down the motorhome route but then changed my mind, I found that a good read. Ta .
 Caravan or Campervan - Bromptonaut
Thanks for the time/effort involved in that travelogue!!

Apart from France, where we usually do 2 weeks/2 sites + overnights en route we've not been away in the caravan for more than a long weekend in years so the idea of MoHo only sites is an eye opener. There are multiple places on the Western Isles, such as Husnis, which have similar facilities.

While I might just be brave enough to take the caravan to Horgabost I wouldn't go any further. People do though report using places on the Golden Road.

More food for thought....
 Caravan or Campervan - tyrednemotional

>> There are multiple places on
>> the Western Isles, such as Husnis, which have similar facilities.
>>

I've used the West Harris Trust spaces. No facilities though. They were a fiver at the time - a good way of putting something back into the economy. (Dump points at ferry terminals.)

France is teeming with Aires de Campingcar.

The weather last night/this morning lived up to expectations (rainy and grey), so we've jumped East 80 miles to Andechs, where the Stellplatz adjoins the Kloster and it's brewery. Had one night here before but the weather wasn't kind, so we decided to come back for two (if the weather is as forecast for tomorrow). Hot and sunny now, so a good move; lots of walks around, but it might be bikes today.

It's a bit more touristy here, and within touching distance of Munich, so a bit more expensive at €19 plus €5 forecast electrickery, but you do get a €3 beer token for the Klosterbrau (huge beer garden up at the Abbey).

A leisurely breakfast and all the housekeeping took us about an hour before we moved this morning.
 Caravan or Campervan - Biggles
Wilkommen in München. Hope the predicted thunderstorms later don't spoil things. The Buchheim museum near Bernried on the Starnberger See could be worth a visit if you are into modern art.
 Caravan or Campervan - tyrednemotional
>> Wilkommen in München. Hope the predicted thunderstorms later don't spoil things.

After a short bike ride, I'm sitting in the mid-20s, high up in the Kloster Biergarten enjoying the fruits of my beer token. I have a clear view, and there may be "incoming", but I'm only 400 downhill yards metres from the van, so I'll take my chance ;-)
 Caravan or Campervan - Fullchat
There always the BMW museum in Munchen
 Caravan or Campervan - tyrednemotional
If/when we can follow the weather, Kultur generally doesn't come into it (that's for rainy days, and in limited amounts ;-) ).

Though Biggles' thunderstorms did manifest themselves, they were late enough to be snug in the van, and the following day was fine and hot, affording us an 11 mile walk to the Ammersee and back. ( I camped on the opposite side 41 years ago!).

The weather forecast has now pushed us further East. In the midst of declining predictions uberall, Passau has been an oasis of predicted sun, so we're now on a Stellplatz not far away at Vilshofen on the Donau (actually at the marina).

The Stellplatz is excellent, 17 places at €20 per night all inclusive, and this is another that works against my narrative, with full campsite-like facilities including toilets and showers. Full soon after we arrived at midday, and hot and sunny as we explored the town for the afternoon.

If tomorrow brings more decent weather (a good chance of it) then we'll stay two more days, cycle some of the Donau, and then visit Passau by train on Friday. If it's poor tomorrow, then it'll be only one extra day for the Passau visit.

Then onwards; Saturday looks reasonable, so off towards the Czech border (possibly).

That's the advantage of flexibility and serendipity.
 Caravan or Campervan - Kevin
>If tomorrow brings more decent weather..

Slight chance of some light rain tomorrow afternoon but Friday is looking pretty poor. Rain all day and a max of 15C.

Go here: www.ecmwf.int/en/forecasts/charts

Click on Meteograms, then under 'Select Dimensions' change 'Location' to Vilshofen (or wherever). Model output will be updated around midnight.
 Caravan or Campervan - tyrednemotional
Good Lord! They do forecasts online, now?!

;-)
 Caravan or Campervan - Kevin
Ah, but this is the horse's mouth.
 Caravan or Campervan - tyrednemotional
I didn't know horses had got t'internet yet.

The rain may come to pass, but at the moment it looks like today's forecast came from the nag's other end.

20 nile ride along the Donau this am; now sitting in sun in the mid-20s having lunch.

General opinion is that it will be colder and wetter tomorrow, it remains to be seen by how much. Passau is still in the cards if it isn't *too* wet.
 Caravan or Campervan - tyrednemotional
I think your horse is due for the knackers yard, Kevin.

Whilst we had torrential rain overnight, it was largely dry but grey in the morning. Waterproofs on for the walk to the station, but packed away on the train, and we enjoyed a day without them, considerably more warm and sunny than the forecast (and dry).

Passau was quite enjoyable, and we whiled away 7 hours or so, exploring and eating, before returning to the train. Well worth a day's visit.

Today dawned bright and sunny, but it was time to move on. The forecast was very mixed; better where we already were so our initial plan was for only an intermediate distance. .....but, it is another long weekend (Pfingst) which means care was needed both for provisioning and for finding a pitch. First choice afforded us a shopping stop, but the Stellplatz was only OK-ish. (Frankly the weather was poor, which affects our view of many possible stopping points). Though driving the Autobahn was unpleasant in rain and heavy spray, we decided to use the poor weather to put some more miles under our belt.

We decided on Dinkelsbühl, but were stymied when the particular place we'd used before, and where we assessed the chances of a free pitch was good, was now a 'late' Stellplatz. We decided to try one of the others there with less confidence, but only a few miles short we passed the Stellplatz at Feuchtwangen, just as the sun arrived. Not the most scenic of views from the pitch, but well layed out and maintained, and, more importantly, just one pitch unoccupied.

So, here we are; 7 good-sized pitches separated by fences/hedges, and it's free. All services available, Lecky and fresh water if you need them is chargeable (by coin - for me maybe €4 per 24 hours). Continuing my theme, this is one where you need a bog.

Good walk round the little town 3 minutes away in mid to low 20s, now supping a beer back on site, We've largely exhausted the town, but if the weather is OK tomorrow, then we may stay and walk or cycle.
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