I am helping my son in law deal with the aftermath of the sudden death of his father. We are both a bit punch drunk trying to work through the gamut of issues. I have put this in non-motoring as although one immediate issue is the car it’s really a wider topic.
On the car he wants to sell ASAP. But realistically it will take a few weeks as he has other priorities.
I have done bit of online digging but it didn’t all join up. What I have found is that it’s a chattel so can be sold in advance of probate. At least one buying site says they can buy cars of deceased people and suggests not adding the inheritors name to the V5 but didn’t say how this is done. It can’t be Sornd where it is parked now (50 miles away). So it seems it will need to be taxed and insured for a few weeks and parked up on the drive at my son in laws house pending sale after the funeral and other more pressing issues.
Is it just a matter of speaking to the existing insurance company and DVLA to get the car in my son in laws name and taxed and insured? We can then deal when things are less fraught.
Or is there a better straight to trade option that avoids an additional owner and gets him much needed cash. Ultimately the estate will leave a bit of cash but meantime he is on a tight budget.
|
First question in anything like this:
Is there a will, who inherits, and is you son in law the executor?
|
Path - avoid the pitfalls at all cost.
Put details on a few buying sites and get a value and get rid ASAP.
I do not know the value of the car but avoiding hassle is the key to success.
Re-registering/Insuring/ Sorn etc etc is to be avoided.
Neighbour had a similar issue of getting rid of a car - Fiesta - he was convinced he could get £9,500 and turned down offers near that - MoTd, insured for another 8 months he eventually took less than he had been offered last summer - in the 8 months it needed insuring /RFL/ MoT, a new Battery in January cold spell.
|
Its actually very simple. You are correct, its a chattel, you can sell it before probate, but you need to record the detail of what it is, its fair market value at time of death.
Then you can sell, no details need to be changed on V5, no change of ownership needs to take place, you just sell it and complete and post off your part of the V5 in the name of the inheritor/executor. Executor needs a receipt for probate records if required.
Then you claim your RFL back online
Anyway - Thats what I did.
|
Thanks for your comments. There is a will which I haven’t seen but he tells me he is the executor. However if Zero and I are right that is not essential. There is unlikely to be any future dispute as the father was a widower and my son in law (sil) and his sister are very close.
Going along the selling route is going to take a few days if not weeks as there are a lot of more pressing issues to deal with. He will just take the best WBAC type offer when he is ready.
Meanwhile insurance will legally be invalid on death as will tax. He can move it to his driveway once he has time but meanwhile can he tax and insure it without adding himself as owner.
|
I am sure you are aware that there are several 'Buy any Car' type companies out there. I got the best price from Motorway. Bit fussy about the photos, but not a big deal.
Man turned up to collect it, very chatty, examined it carefully. The money was in my account before the car left the drive.
Don't put another name on the V5.
|
>> Thanks for your comments. There is a will which I haven’t seen but he tells
>> me he is the executor. However if Zero and I are right that is not
>> essential. There is unlikely to be any future dispute as the father was a widower
>> and my son in law (sil) and his sister are very close.
You're spot on, no need for probate/letters of admin to dispose of chattels.
However if there were no will and/or disputatious family it can get complicated.
Perhaps less likely over a Jeep but I still cannot, thirty years on, see a vintage SAAB without recalling a 'family from hell' case in the Court of Protections.
|
Thanks. Having looked again at the DVLA site it is indeed very simple if you have the car and a ready buyer. Our complication remains that the car is 50 plus miles away and untaxed and uninsured. Sil is no state to progress an immediate sale.
I want to get it legal so that he has a week or two to clear more pressing issues. I am minded to get him to phone the existing insurance company to get insurance sorted today and to buy time on the tax issue by writing to the DVLA sensitive cases team to advise of the death and that he wishes to sell when funeral and other arrangements are complete. Without adding himself as the new owner.
As I say this buys time but is this a flawed plan?
|
Tbh sounds more complicated than getting rid of it now.
Get one of those wbac etc to meet someone at where the car is. Sell it. Move on to other items.
|
I agree with sooty, you are overcomplicating it.
The DVLA is very black and white, its taxed or sorned. They dont care who has taxed it, who has paid for it.. Its simply a tick against the reg number. So if its taxed, and the V5 is not changed, you dont need to tell them. That bit kicks off at sale.
Strictly speaking on drive you dont need to have it insured, but I guess its wise in the event of theft.
Last edited by: Zero on Sat 18 Mar 23 at 10:12
|
|
If it is not on a SORN it needs to be insured.
|
|
It certainly needs to be insured to get RFL. After that? Its a RT offence, that only happens on the road? They dont cancel your RFL if your insurance lapses.
|
|
Even off road you can be fined £100 but they should send out an advisory letter first. As indicated though, if the insurance company are not made aware it will stay on the MIB database.
Last edited by: Biggles on Sat 18 Mar 23 at 12:26
|
If nobody tells the insurance co FIL has died, then it will still show as insured on MID, IYKWIM!!
I would expect if they are a decent insurer they would put an extension on the policy for a few weeks.
|
You can legally drive another car, 3rd party only, if you have the DOC on your Insurance Certificate.
The complication is that the actual car itself MUST be insured as well
|
>> You can legally drive another car, 3rd party only, if you have the DOC on
>> your Insurance Certificate.
>>
>> The complication is that the actual car itself MUST be insured as well
Is the second bit universally true?
|
..it doesn't appear to be a condition for DOC on my insurance.
Having "the owner's express consent" is, however (which might prove rather difficult in the circumstances ;-) )
|
>>Is the second bit universally true?
Imagine driving a car on DOC, if thatcar isn't insured. You can't leave it at the side of the road to nip into a shop and what happens if it breaks down, you could be leaving an uninsured vehicle on the road?
|
>> >>Is the second bit universally true?
>>
>> Imagine driving a car on DOC, if that car isn't insured. You can't leave it at
>> the side of the road to nip into a shop and what happens if it
>> breaks down, you could be leaving an uninsured vehicle on the road?
>>
Nobody has suggested using one of the day cover insurance companies? I believe some will offer by the hour, although that could be problematic if you get caught in a traffic jam M25 style?
Google is your friend.
|
Yes. As you are only covered when you are driving. If you parked it and nipped into a shop then it should revert to the original policy. (Posted the same time as BT)
If the person is the executor and has the registration document get rid. Providing there is nothing fraudulent going on there will be no issues.
Last edited by: Fullchat on Sat 18 Mar 23 at 13:48
|
>> Yes. As you are only covered when you are driving. If you parked it and
>> nipped into a shop then it should revert to the original policy. (Posted the same
>> time as BT)
>>
>> If the person is the executor and has the registration document get rid. Providing there
>> is nothing fraudulent going on there will be no issues.
>>
>>
>>
Whilst I bow to your previous knowledge, IIRC people have been prosecuted for 'Driving under the influence' when in possession of car keys - not actually driving. Does being in control of the car constitute 'driving'?
|
>>
>> >>
>> Whilst I bow to your previous knowledge, IIRC people have been prosecuted for 'Driving under
>> the influence' when in possession of car keys
>>
>>
>>
But only if they are actually in the vehicle at the time.
|
Interesting to see how the one of those reasons mentioned might change with the increase in keyless starts i.e. no key in the ignition plus the cars that can now be 'started' with just the digital key on your smartphone.
|
"....Whilst I bow to your previous knowledge, IIRC people have been prosecuted for 'Driving under the influence' when in possession of car keys - not actually driving. Does being in control of the car constitute 'driving'?"
As regards Drink/Drug driving the offence is worded " ......... drives, attempts to drive or is incharge of a motor vehicle on a road or public place."
So being in possession of the keys can suggest that you are 'in charge'.
BUT there has to be a likelyhood of you driving.
Surprisingly in the legislation the onus is on the defendant to prove that there was no likelyhood of them driving. However the Police have taken on the responsibility in proving that there was a likelyhood.
|
>>Is the second bit universally true?
For ordinary motorists it is universally true.
For motor traders, police etc no - they are covered to drive any vehicle if they have the correct commercial policy
|
Simply hire a rescue/recovery firm to move the car to the destination required. !00 mile round trip shouldn't be too expensive and will give peace of mind.
I transported quite a few for various reasons in my career, especially for DVLA inspection over reg no. matters. Now they come to you !
They probably won't even need the keys....ve haf vays of moving ze car !
Ted
|
Just a quick update. The WBAC and Motorway will not buy a deceased’s car without a death certificate and a solicitor’s proof of the right to sell. I didn’t check any other sites but I guess they will be similar.
As the death was abroad we still await an autopsy and foreign death certificate before a U.K. death cert is issued. This might take another week. So we can’t proceed immediately and will need to consider how best to proceed taking account of advice to date.
|
|
I sold my first wife's lovely Mk5 GTi with a squiggle on the V5, no issues. It was my car to sell as a "chattel" anyway. The purchaser knew my circumstances and enjoyed the car for many years. Just as easy to do online I guess.
|
My Mother sold Dad's <1yr old Accord back to the dealer who'd supplied it very soon after his death; possibly even before the funeral. She asked my sis and I if either of us wanted it but it wasn't a 'fit' for either of us. Contacted the dealer who supplied it and it who sent a lad over to collect it.
On their forecourt as low mileage one owner within a week.
The dealership knew Dad as a regular buyer of a new car every few years so no fuss.
I guess that, 25 years on, with the internet etc outfits like Motorway and WBAC have either been had or identified being had as a risk and put measures in place.
|
|
As you say - Local VW dealer were happy to do a deal on the GTi, knowing the circumstances
|
|
An independent garage 10 miles away bought my late fathers car. Offered a couple of hundred quid more than WBAC. I still had a week left on the joint insurance policy, so drove it there for evaluation. By the time the deal and paperwork was done, the insurance had run out. The garage sent out two blokes to collect it free of charge. Can't argue with that.
|
Jeep All Models - Selling deceased persons car - Bromptonaut
