My daughter has moved into her new flat. The previous owners took the TV bracket, which is annoying but that's that. It looks like it was professionally fitted and there are loads of screw holes with what looks to me like the right kind of "rawlplugs" in the stud walls - I'm hoping I just need to find the right screws.
The telly is a 48", reasonably modern but also ,moderately heavy. I'm sure it would be OK on a static bracket but she wants a cantilever, so she can swing it out for when she's busy elsewhere in the room.
Do we think that the wall would put up with continual stress of carrying the weight and it being moved around? Obviously I don't know much about stud walls and fastenings.
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I'd be inclined to find the studs and screw into those, if necessary fixing some battens or even a piece of ply to the wall to mount the bracket.
Plasterboard plugs are OK if the load is mostly vertical but as soon as you hang it out there's a good pull on the top fixings. Plasterboard will bow even if it doesn't break. Try leaning a piece against a wall for a couple of weeks, it will bend with its own weight.
But I don't do this sort of thing for a living.
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Thanks both. I'd have to assume that the existing holes are already into the studs but not sure how I can tell. Does knocking on it produce a deader sound than hollow? That doesn't seem to scientific though. I think I have a device in the garage which might have stud finding capability, but given CGNs link (which confirmed my own concerns) I'm going off the idea of a cantilever anyway.
Glad I asked, thanks for the help. :-)
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Talk her off the idea of a cantilever, they are a bad idea even in a solid wall. Just tell her its not possible with that wall.
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Yeah, I had one here for a while, not overly impressed with it. Not least as the telly always seemed a bit crooked when it was extended.
Amazon have cheap enough and man enough mounts for tellies, it's just a matter of (ideally) finding one where the holes line up with the screw holes in the wall.
And then I just need to identify which screws to buy for the wall plugs the previous owners left behind.
Easiest way is to take over my tin of assorted waste screws, find one with the right thread then take it to the old fashioned hardware store in town, where they staff know what they are talking about and you are served with a smile :-)
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If I was screwing straight into stud I wouldn’t use any rawlplugs. It would be strong screws. In fact I have a cantilever arrangement just like this that is straight into stud with screws only. Been up for 5 years carrying a 50 inch tv and still solid.
The fact that you are seeing rawlplugs suggests to me that they are only into board and not onto stud.
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I'm not sure they are called rawlplugs, to me those are the plastic long cone shape things for use in brick. These are some kind of special wotsit for board walls. But I see what you mean, and it's a good point.
I'll try to work out if they are in the stud or the wall. Going there tomorrow to finish off the IKEA marathon build...!!
But I'll still advise against cantilever.
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>> I'm not sure they are called rawlplugs, to me those are the plastic long cone
>> shape things for use in brick.
I think Rawlplug is a brand name that has acquired a general usage for plugs; like Hoover for a vacuum cleaner.
I've had shelves on my study wall for a dozen years plus with plasterboard toggles. Ok with a mix of hardback and paperback books but wouldn't trust them with a TV on a cantilever.
There's a smallish TV on a cantilever in what was once my sons room. Outside wall with plasterboard 'dabbed' on. Drilled through to the blockwork and used extra long screws.
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>>IKEA marathon build...
I purchased my first actual piece of furniture from IKEA last spring. A wardrobe to replace my floorrobe.
It wasn't cheap and I wasn't that impressed. The build quality was fine, but many pieces are foil covered hexagon boards - not solid and quite vulnerable to damage. In fact on opening one of the packages, one item had a large hole, even though there was just a small "nick" on the packaging. To give them their due, IKEA sent a replacement panel without fuss but it took a few weeks due to us not being in their normal delivery circle.
There were connectors that were screwed in to panels with a cam nut in the connecting panel. These were all plastic. Dunelm furniture assembled for Miss Z had more robust aluminium connectors and cams.
There were also plastic connectors that were pre-moulded in to panels and these went in to holes in connecting boards and you were supposed to slide the panels with holes to lock the connector in to a smaller gap. These looked easy to connect on videos of people assembling the units but in reality required a huge amount of force. I called a carpenter acquaintance around and he thought the machine making them were both at different ends of their tolerances which was why they were so difficult to click in to place.
The instructions were not very clear either.
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>> The instructions were not very clear either.
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Instructions???
You mean, "The manufacturers opinion".
Last edited by: Robin O'Reliant on Thu 5 Jan 23 at 20:15
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Smokie, back to your question on identifying the position of studs as, unless I’ve missed it, nobody seems to have replied directly. As you suggest you can tell by knocking the wall but I find that quite tricky. For certainty, after I think I have found the studs, I prod through the plasterboard with a bradawl or similar fine pointed tool to check, trying to keep to places that will be out of sight.
There is a fair chance that the existing fixings are good but you’d be taking a chance on an unknown quantity, especially if they are not into the studs.
If you are drilling new holes remember to check for any cabling within the wall. I speak from experience when I drilled a hole in a new house above a cabinet completely forgetting there was a socket behind it. I reckon I missed the cable by about an inch.
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I recall Zeddo had experience of floating shelves on a stud wall - don't!
My daughter wanted a curtain pole on a stud wall, I refused. The professionals drilled through to the solid brick, put a plug in the stud and another in the brick (double plugging, or some such term) and b***** great long screws.
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The chances of a TV bracket fixing holes precisely matching the distance between studs is low.
It may be that additional reinforcement was originally installed - but I suspect unlikely.
A purely personal view - plasterboard fixings will support a medium/large TV flat against the wall but I would not want to make it adjustable. It will be more vulnerable to damage, may over-stress the wall fixings, and unless a high quality mount likely to sag under the weight of TV.
If you want to be be certain of a firm mount, a ply board (12mm or more) fitted between two studs would be sensible. TV mounting can be through the ply.
Screw directly into the studs - no special fixings needed, just use ~75mm screws for a strong job. Studs are normally at 400mm or 600mm centres.
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I am trying my hardest not to drill new holes as I am not confident. But there was a TV on the wall before so if I can work out the right screws I should be able to simply replicate it.
The apartment is only just 3 years old, and is one of the more expensive ones but I don't think there is a brick wall in the place. According to the covenant she has to get permission to drill into the walls without permission! Not sure poking about with a bradawl will be acceptable! :-)
EDIT: The old wall bracket left us with 10, maybe 12 holes. It must have been a fairly substantial one. I'll take a pic tomorrow.
EDIT more: I'm not going to be shy about telling her to get a man in to do it either.
Last edited by: smokie on Fri 6 Jan 23 at 00:17
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Do you have a magnet? It’s the most reliable way of finding the studs because the plasterboard is screwed to it. I use a thing called a Studbuddy (pretty sure it’s a US name because I snigger every time I use it), but any magnet will work.
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Here's the promised pic.
drive.google.com/file/d/1HekkFMGkWciTuFx3AEB3okFtTzrbtTDY/view?usp=sharing
There are actually two sizes of rawlplug. I found old screws in my junk tin which match the thread so if I'm doing the job will source some of those from the local ironmonger along with some washers.
As far as I could tell from the knocking method there are no studs anywhere in the area.
I have no plans to do any drilling myself so the plan is to try to find a bracket with a really narrow set of screw holes and use that. I have the exact measurements but they aren't often quoted in the ads. Amazon has plenty of choice, and easy returns. It is a particularly narrow gap between the rows so we might be lucky.
Failing that, get a man in (or a woman!). Which will be at least £100 more, probably £150, than I can do it for myself if I can find the right bracket.
I do have one of those really strong magnets so out of interest I'll take it with me on next visit - but today we completed the last pierce of Ikea furniture so I have no reason to go there for a bit.
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Have you tried using a a meatal coat hanger thro the existing holes?
Several strategies;
Straight to determine if a depth exists behind the 15mm? thick plaster board.
Straight to see what the next solid object is made of.
Bent to test the the clear radius behind each existing hole - that should allow you to determine whether studs, metal framing or dot and dab has been used for fixing plaster board panels.
Removing existing existing plugs (if straight)should be easy. if expanding with crushable/compressing ears maybe a little more difficult.
Or just buy a stud finder - buying man toys is cheaper than employing a real man.
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Ta, as I said I've no intention of doing any drilling myself. I'm hoping to find a bracket which I can use on the existing holes. It was, after all, supporting a telly before.
But thanks for the ideas!! :-)
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I'd not shared the link to the pic correctly, now done
I just found One-For-All have a webform where you can ask things so I am contacting them with the measurements between the holes to see if they can suggest anything.
I wonder if I'm being over cautious by saying I won't d-i-y. I expect I could re-use one row of holes and I was just reading about gripits so maybe I could do three or four of those in a second row. tinyurl.com/2aducumz
Still not thinking cantilever but a tilt might be helpful.
Last edited by: smokie on Sat 7 Jan 23 at 10:23
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>>Or just buy a stud finder
I bought one of them and found it useless. I like the magnet idea, off to try it.
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I use a neodymium fishing magnet in the workshop. They will pull a moped out of a canal ! They may pull the screws through the plasterboard as you find them !
Ted
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>I use a neodymium fishing magnet..
What fish can you catch with a magnet?
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>> >I use a neodymium fishing magnet..
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>> What fish can you catch with a magnet?
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...swordfish...
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>> >> >I use a neodymium fishing magnet..
>> >>
>> >> What fish can you catch with a magnet?
>> >>
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>> ...swordfish...
But not Goldfish
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Stick magnet fishing in you tube....Guns, safes, knives, cash boxes, motorbikes, shopping trolleys. Any thing ferrous.
Ted
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>> Straight to determine if a depth exists behind the 15mm? thick plaster board.
Normally 12.5 mm or sometimes 9mm.
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>> Here's the promised pic.
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>> drive.google.com/file/d/1HekkFMGkWciTuFx3AEB3okFtTzrbtTDY/view?usp=sharing
The plugs look similar to these:
www.screwfix.com/p/rawlplug-hollow-wall-anchors-m6-x-37mm-20-pack/40813?
The shelves in my study are a fixed with a similar type. Drill a hole of x mm diameter, insert the fixing and then use a puller to open a toggle on the inside of the plasterboard. The fixing stays firmly in place with its screw removed and refitted through the shelf bracket or whatever.
They're designed for plasterboard and not studs.
A quick look at Amazon suggests there's a range of brackets with broadly the same pattern of fixing. The vertical distance between fixings is fixed but the horizontal slots have some wiggle room.
Are VESA fixings for TV still a thing?
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sat 7 Jan 23 at 12:09
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"They're designed for plasterboard and not studs."
Ignorant question, are they not the same thing? If not how would you tell the difference? (A magnet?). Her flat is almost 3 years old and these will be the original walls. But they sound hollow when you knock them.
I understood VESA to be some sort of standard rather than an actual thing.
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My understanding is that plasterboard is attached to wood (or sometimes metal) vertical risers reinforced with cross pieces. The fittings I'm speaking of form a fixing into the voids behind the plasterboard by forming a toggle that spreads the load. If there's a wooden stud at the point you need to fix then you'd use a softwood screw of some description instead.
I wondered if the VESA standard implied a degree of commonality of sizing.
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..I think the VESA standard only covers the geography of the TV end of the mount, not the wall end.
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lirp-cdn.multiscreensite.com/28aa4e38/dms3rep/multi/opt/stud+2-1920w.jpg
Stud and plaster board. Studs are the pieces of wood running down. They are normally 600mm apart. Noggins are the horizontal bits. Looking at your picture, I'd say that is what the tv wall bracket is screwed into.
Plasterboards are plaster that has set and wrapped in paper, plaster is applied to these boards, then paint/wallpaper.
Last edited by: sooty123 on Sat 7 Jan 23 at 17:45
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Thanks Sooty. Sound similar then.
I found that the telly is 10kg. The brackets themselves support 45kg or more. It's a reasonably modern telly (42" Panasonic Viera TX-42AS650).
Bromps is about right when he says the fittings look like those from Screwfix, which are plasterboard fittings as far as I can see.
I'm feeling the risk is fairly low if I put a new bracket up using the existing holes as far as I can, for the top row rather than the bottom.
I ordered 4 different brackets from Amazon. One arrives tomorrow - it happens to be the one which most looks like it would fit. They say they come with fittings but I doubt they'll have the ones I need - but I'd need to get some trunking too anyway.
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Thanks for the vote of confidence :-)
I'm working on the basis that there was one there before!!!
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Or just buy a piece of plywood, cut it so it’s slightly wider than the studs in the wall and screw it directly to the studs. Then just use wood screws to fasten the mount to the plywood sheet.
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Our joiner was a helpful chap, before he put the plasterboard on he fixed ply between all the studs where the TV points are.
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I wonder if that's what happened here, hence I couldn't find the studs? There is an array of sockets under the telly area.
The lease documents say she has to get permission to make any holes in the walls...
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>> I wonder if that's what happened here, hence I couldn't find the studs? There is
>> an array of sockets under the telly area.
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>> The lease documents say she has to get permission to make any holes in the
>> walls...
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Sounds like a terrible landlord. If he doesn't want the tenant drilling holes in the wall, then he should come and put the TV up himself.
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>> Sounds like a terrible landlord. If he doesn't want the tenant drilling holes in the
>> wall, then he should come and put the TV up himself.
My reading of the first post is that it's a leasehold flat (reference to previous owner) rather than (eg) an Assured Shorthold Tenancy.
We went straight from renting to freehold but stuff I read suggests that (a) long term leases can be pretty restrictive and (b) getting permission for simple internal works can be a nightmare of plans, fees etc etc.
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Yes, it's a leasehold flat that she's bought. There are some quite restrictive covenants - no washing cars, or working on them in the streets, no loud noise, animals require permission.
It's one of the major housebuilders, can't recall which one, and just three years old, so probably fairly standard stuff these days.
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If it's the company that built the flats, I doubt they'd be interested. Alot of the covenants are more for marketing purposes than anything else.
Do they send employees round to record holes in walls that have gained permission vs those without permission?
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I've no idea. I only mentioned it in passing really. I don't even know who owns the lease now.
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>> I've no idea. I only mentioned it in passing really. I don't even know who
>> owns the lease now.
Developers are usually pretty quick at selling on long leases.
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The telly is now hanging on the wall, which is still standing and in one piece.
I ordered a selection of brackets from Amazon to find the best match (for holes distance). Bit annoying that I didn't notice I had to pay return postage on a couple but they weren't expensive.
I didn't need to put any more holes in. I couldn't find the stud using any method, though I didn't need it anyway.
Nor could I match the screws for a couple of Hilti fixings which were in the wall but I matched the others and the backplate went securely on the wall.
She did have a man round to price up fitting. His labour wasn't too bad (£80 labour) but his parts were excessive - £59 for a new bracket, (we paid about £15), £30 for a £5 bit of trunking, quite a bit for unrequired cables.
So thanks to all for the useful tips and assistance here. :-)
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TV wall bracket/stud wall - Manatee
