Motoring Discussion > Citroen Berlingo Multispace - 10,000 mile Berlingo report - engine problems Miscellaneous
Thread Author: tyro Replies: 45
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New Sun 3 Apr 22 10:16 
 Citroen Berlingo Multispace - 10,000 mile Berlingo report - engine problems - tyro
I'm not sure if I should post here or technical, but if this should be in technical, let me know.

Background: see www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?t=29041

I've now had the car 9 months, and it now has 93,000 miles on it, almost 10,000 of which are mine.

In general, it's been great. In cold weather, it takes a couple of attempts to start it.

It also has a tendency, especially if one is just driving along in 5th gear at about 50 mph for the engine to judder a bit, and the gear stick to shake. Putting my foot down on the accelerator makes the judder go away.

On 15th March, I set off to go into town - about a mile - and just as I got there, the engine warning light went on. No obvious problems. I had a few short runs that day, and each time the warning light was on. The following day, I did a 20 mile run in the evening, and then a 20 mile run home - again with the engine warning light on. No problems. On the morning of the 17th, the warning light didn't come on, and it was fine for the next few days.

On the 27th, the engine warning light came on again at the end of a 50 mile journey. Also there on the drive home. On the 28th, gone.

Took car in to the garage to get it checked out on 1st April. They plugged it in to look at the fault codes, and told me that they were glitches, and everything seemed fine.

On the 2nd April - yesterday - we set off on the long journey down from the Highlands to Keswick for a short break. Driving down the A9, there was a beep, the engine warning light went on, and the car lost power. We pulled in to a layby, stopped the car. Then started it again and it drove normally for several miles - then suddenly lost power again. The car had some power, but just didn't respond much when one pressed the accelerator. We pulled off again, stopped the engine, restarted, and drove to Bruar, where we called the RAC. They sent a breakdown lorry from Blair Atholl Garage, and they guys plugged it in to look at the fault codes and said it was to do with the fuel system. Possibly just a clogged fuel filter, possibly the fuel injection. They suggested that we drive to Blair Atholl Garage, and they would follow, and see what happened. Nothing happened, so we discussed it with them at the garage, and then decided we would keep going, and see if we could get to Perth, and if so to keep going.

In the event, we had driven about 25 miles when we got the bleep, the light went on, and the car lost power. At that point we were 15 miles from my mother's house, and she is always glad to see us, so we pulled off, stopped the car, and drove to her house.

Obviously, first thing Monday morning, we get it checked out. In the meantime, any thoughts?







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New Sun 3 Apr 22 11:35 
 Citroen Berlingo Multispace - 10,000 mile Berlingo report - engine problems - Zero
My first thought is that one needs to make a note of the full codes "Something to do with the fuel system" is insufficient.

Quick review reveals you had the glimmer of a warning of this when you got it, but it went away. Anyway its now sufficiently bad to go into limp home mode.

Anyway, 100,000 mile diesel symptoms, limp home when warm, not starting first time. - Injectors, *pump, egr, needs filter, crap fuel / crap in the tank. You could try running some injector cleaner through it, I fixed a volvo with that when it was acting up.
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New Sun 3 Apr 22 15:47 
 Citroen Berlingo Multispace - 10,000 mile Berlingo report - engine problems - Bromptonaut
What's the engine size/type?

Is it and HDi?
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New Sun 3 Apr 22 16:06 
 Citroen Berlingo Multispace - 10,000 mile Berlingo report - engine problems - RichardW
Presume this is an 04 2.0 HDi? Most of these had Siemens injection with no electric lift pump, so my money would be on the fuel filter. This engine is very tough by modern diesel standards, and has comparatively little in the way of emissions equipment / sensors that will put the light on. The reluctance to start on cold days is probably a tired starter motor - common on this variant, it just doesn't spin it fast enough. It's straightforward to change on this engine however.
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New Sun 3 Apr 22 16:35 
 Citroen Berlingo Multispace - 10,000 mile Berlingo report - engine problems - tyro
Yes. 04 2.0 HDi indeed. Good to hear that replacing the starter motor should be simple. With temperatures warming up at this time of year, that's not too urgent.

If the fuel system problem is indeed the fuel filter, what needs to be done - and what should I know?
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New Sun 3 Apr 22 16:38 
 Citroen Berlingo Multispace - 10,000 mile Berlingo report - engine problems - tyro
Thanks. I put some Redex Diesel System Cleaner in the tank, and went for a run of about 30 miles this afternoon - including giving it over 3000 revs after the engine heated up. Every time I did that it seemed to go into limp home mode again.

I guess I'll be going to the garage first thing tomorrow morning.
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New Sun 3 Apr 22 16:45 
 Citroen Berlingo Multispace - 10,000 mile Berlingo report - engine problems - Bromptonaut
Does it have a turbocharger?

I cannot remember whether all 2.0 HDi's had one.
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New Sun 3 Apr 22 17:59 
 Citroen Berlingo Multispace - 10,000 mile Berlingo report - engine problems - tyro
Yes - all 2.0 HDi Berlingos are turbo-charged.
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New Sun 3 Apr 22 22:39 
 Citroen Berlingo Multispace - 10,000 mile Berlingo report - engine problems - helicopter
My money is on the fuel rail pressure sensor .....
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New Mon 4 Apr 22 12:06 
 Citroen Berlingo Multispace - 10,000 mile Berlingo report - engine problems - Bromptonaut
>> My money is on the fuel rail pressure sensor .....

I think I had that issue on my 2.0 HDi110 Xantia.

It also had some similar symptoms but without poor starting associated with the turbo and its 'plumbing'.
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New Mon 4 Apr 22 07:31 
 Citroen Berlingo Multispace - 10,000 mile Berlingo report - engine problems - RichardW
What I'd expect for a blocked filter. I'd just get them to shove a filter in, it's cheap and easy, don't waste time with a diagnosis first - if the filter doesn't work, then look a bit deeper, but I'd expect it to fix it.
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New Mon 4 Apr 22 11:12 
 Citroen Berlingo Multispace - 10,000 mile Berlingo report - engine problems - tyro
Richard - The car was serviced in November. Would the fuel filter have been changed at that time?
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New Mon 4 Apr 22 14:47 
 Citroen Berlingo Multispace - 10,000 mile Berlingo report - engine problems - RichardW
Impossible to say - it's probably only on 30-40k intervals so most likely not! It's right in the front centre of the engine bay; does it look like it's been changed (clean) or still dirty?
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New Mon 4 Apr 22 15:24 
 Citroen Berlingo Multispace - 10,000 mile Berlingo report - engine problems - helicopter
The reason I mentioned fuel rail pressure sensor is that I had a look on the Citroen and Berlingo forums and now apparently backed up by Brompt,these symptoms have been cured by replacing said sensor....

Hopefully a relatively cheap fix.
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New Tue 5 Apr 22 09:56 
 Citroen Berlingo Multispace - 10,000 mile Berlingo report - engine problems - carmalade
Fault codes are only a rough guide . Very often a fault is flagged as a result of another problem. I would certainly start with the cheaper option. Replace the fuel filter and make sure of no leaks from its housing.
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New Wed 6 Apr 22 09:31 
 Citroen Berlingo Multispace - 10,000 mile Berlingo report - engine problems - tyro
I took the car into a garage on Monday. They were pretty busy, but said they would try to squeeze it in. Yesterday I asked how they were getting on, and the chap aid that it didn't look like anything simple like the fuel filter, but reckoned it might be something to do with the ECU.
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New Wed 6 Apr 22 10:37 
 Citroen Berlingo Multispace - 10,000 mile Berlingo report - engine problems - Zero
>> but reckoned it might be something to do with the ECU.

He means he is about to not (or doesen't know how to) diagnose anything and is loading the parts canon. If thats his first expensive shot, find someone else quickly.
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 6 Apr 22 at 10:38
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New Wed 6 Apr 22 11:54 
 Citroen Berlingo Multispace - 10,000 mile Berlingo report - engine problems - Lygonos
What he said^^
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New Thu 7 Apr 22 10:09 
 Citroen Berlingo Multispace - 10,000 mile Berlingo report - engine problems - tyro
Thanks. We left the Berlingo at the garage in Blairgowrie, and borrowed my mother's car, and are now in Keswick.

Before we left, we popped around to the garage to get everything out of it, and I had a brief chat with the guy. It is a father and son operation, and I have not spoken to the father, but the son seems to be a decent person. They are pretty busy, and I don't think they have yet done anything much in terms of diagnosis, so it will be very interesting to see what they say. He did say to me that if the car was in limp mode, it should be safe enough to drive in home in limp mode if necessary. I don't know if that's right, but it is certainly an option.

As for the garage, what I know about it is that it was recommended by my mother's neighbours who are car enthusiasts; I think the guy is a retired mechanic who had a garage - and they seem like very nice people. The garage also gets good reviews on google. In a small town, I think those things count for a lot. My sister's neighbour apparently has been taking her car there for years, and she has nice cars. However, I'll be keeping an eye on things and being cautious.
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New Mon 11 Apr 22 17:49 
 Citroen Berlingo Multispace - 10,000 mile Berlingo report - engine problems - tyro
Update: We are back in Blairgowrie after our break in the Lake District. I didn't bother contacting the garage while we were away (they had our mobile number.)

I went around and spoke to the proprietor. He told me that I needed to go to a dealership, because the computing equipment dealers have is able to read fault codes which the equipment that independent garages have is unable to read - and hence only a dealer can diagnose the problem.

He did tell me that it would not damage the car to drive it - e.g. up to Inverness.

I reckon a Peugeot dealer should be able to deal with it, since the Berlingo is the same as a Peugeot Partner. However, the local Peugeot dealer can't fit me in for a couple of weeks, so I guess I'll have to look elsewhere.
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New Mon 11 Apr 22 18:40 
 Citroen Berlingo Multispace - 10,000 mile Berlingo report - engine problems - smokie
The "little man" I used to use for my fettling had a machine which I thought he could do any car with. Maybe it wasn't kosher...
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New Mon 11 Apr 22 19:37 
 Citroen Berlingo Multispace - 10,000 mile Berlingo report - engine problems - bathtub tom
>>I reckon a Peugeot dealer should be able to deal with it

Over on t'other side, there's someone with the handle Gibbo_Wirral who advocates Planet Owners map. Planet is I believe the diagnostic software, the map gives places where private owners have it.

www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/161143/2016-peugeot-308-1-2
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New Mon 11 Apr 22 19:47 
 Citroen Berlingo Multispace - 10,000 mile Berlingo report - engine problems - Zero
There are plenty of independent garages that have third party diagnostics that work well on a pug of that age. Snap on make a tool, as does Autel.
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New Mon 11 Apr 22 19:50 
 Citroen Berlingo Multispace - 10,000 mile Berlingo report - engine problems - Runfer D'Hills
Maybe there is a Berlingo owners forum on the interweb?
I have no idea if there is, but if there is, there might be something to discover.
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New Mon 11 Apr 22 20:51 
 Citroen Berlingo Multispace - 10,000 mile Berlingo report - engine problems - helicopter
Yes there is a Berlingo forum and a Citroen forum.

I have already advised above what the symptoms suggest based on my reading of said forums ....
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New Wed 13 Apr 22 08:18 
 Citroen Berlingo Multispace - 10,000 mile Berlingo report - engine problems - tyro
Thanks everyone.

Regarding Berlingo Forums, I went back to Berlingo Forum and posted there for the first time in many years, and have received one response so far: www.berlingoforum.com/thread-22320.html

Regarding the reading of codes - well, I am confused. People are saying different things and they can't all be right. Not being a technical sort of chap, it's all somewhat over my head. But the whole thing seems somewhat crazy to me. I phoned a few main dealers - including a Peugeot dealer (on the grounds that the Berlingo is the same as the Peugeot Partner). The Peugeot dealer told me that I would be better going to a Citroen dealer just to make sure about the code reading.

Phoning Citroen dealers - the only one that is within an 100 miles of our house is in Inverness, and they couldn't fit us in until 5th May. The next nearest is apparently in Perth - some 3 hours drive from our house.

This whole code reading thing is weird. If there are code readers that will give the answer which are easily available, why do a lot of garages seem to be oblivious to this fact? And can it really be that I have to drive 150 miles or wait 3 weeks to get a diagnosis?
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New Wed 13 Apr 22 08:34 
 Citroen Berlingo Multispace - 10,000 mile Berlingo report - engine problems - Runfer D'Hills
That’s miserable Tyro.

Maybe try googling “Citroen specialist (insert your nearest town ) “

Never know!
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New Wed 13 Apr 22 08:39 
 Citroen Berlingo Multispace - 10,000 mile Berlingo report - engine problems - Falkirk Bairn
My Indie turns away work all the time - he does not have the ability to read codes on the dozens of cars he will see in a week.

He has /had good relations with people in the franchised garages surrounding area but in the last 20 years the chains have bought up all the franchises or the family run franchises has closed. That and his contacts over the decades have retired.

He cannot compete when he would have to buy in expertise buy / special tools from a main dealer to fit parts, diagnose the fault or even reset the system when new parts are installed.
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New Wed 13 Apr 22 08:45 
 Citroen Berlingo Multispace - 10,000 mile Berlingo report - engine problems - Zero

>> He cannot compete when he would have to buy in expertise buy / special tools
>> from a main dealer to fit parts, diagnose the fault or even reset the system
>> when new parts are installed.
>>
>
None of this applies to the HDI in question.
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New Wed 13 Apr 22 08:43 
 Citroen Berlingo Multispace - 10,000 mile Berlingo report - engine problems - Zero
Tyro. You car is quite old, it is not festooned with microchips and cpu's that only manufacturer level diagnostics can resolve or diagnose. The HDI engine in your vehicle has been around for ages, in great numbers and many applications and there are plenty of third party code readers to capture the pretty basic and simple outputs.

Your problem is that main dealers cant be bothered with a car of that age, and dont want to look at it because their techs cant diagnose stuff without fancy tech, compounded by a lack of independent garages and good mechanics, (not helped by brexit), especially as you appear to live miles from anywhere. And yes 3 weeks to get a diagnosis is not uncommon, I have to book my BMW indie months in advance.

The only advice I can offer you is that your issue is diagnosable/fixable by a good independent with non manufacturer supplied diagnostics. The HDI engine is pretty simple. You just need to find that garage,
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 13 Apr 22 at 08:44
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New Wed 13 Apr 22 09:14 
 Citroen Berlingo Multispace - 10,000 mile Berlingo report - engine problems - smokie
If you can find someone who can interpret the codes, this would appear to read it for you, for £20.

tinyurl.com/tz9xe4cp
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New Wed 13 Apr 22 17:00 
 Citroen Berlingo Multispace - 10,000 mile Berlingo report - engine problems - Bromptonaut
>> The only advice I can offer you is that your issue is diagnosable/fixable by a
>> good independent with non manufacturer supplied diagnostics. The HDI engine is pretty simple. You just
>> need to find that garage,

Same engine, give or take an intercooler, as my Xantia. Relatively early DI diesel but the injection system is quite complex. Simpler than a modern HDi but a helluva lot less simple than an XUD. Ours was prone to put it engine management 'K light' on although it often went off again after a couple of restarts.

My money is still on either a valve in the injection system or something in the turbo's valves/plumbing.
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New Wed 13 Apr 22 11:39 
 Citroen Berlingo Multispace - 10,000 mile Berlingo report - engine problems - Dog
I spent 14 years diagnosing and fixing faults on c10,000 vehicles - at the owner's home or place of work.

Albeit petrol only. All garages had the same Sun or Crypton motor testers as me, but only used them to stand their coffee mugs on.

I would suggest you look for a car engine diagnostic centre via yell.com, which may not to easy to find where you are.
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New Wed 13 Apr 22 13:21 
 Citroen Berlingo Multispace - 10,000 mile Berlingo report - engine problems - Bobby
Tyro, where are you based? Town?
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New Wed 13 Apr 22 16:22 
 Citroen Berlingo Multispace - 10,000 mile Berlingo report - engine problems - Boxsterboy
>> Tyro, where are you based? Town?
>>

Tyree at a guess?? :-)
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New Thu 14 Apr 22 10:20 
 Citroen Berlingo Multispace - 10,000 mile Berlingo report - engine problems - tyro
I live just outside Bonar Bridge in Sutherland.

This morning my wife and I will drop the Berlingo at Perth, and then head home. I'll contact the dealer on Monday and see what news they have.
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New Thu 14 Apr 22 10:30 
 Citroen Berlingo Multispace - 10,000 mile Berlingo report - engine problems - Runfer D'Hills
Lovely part of the world Tyro. I have fond memories of childhood holidays in Dornoch and surrounding areas.
Fabulous white sand if I remember correctly?

Good luck with the car. Perth isn’t exactly “just down the road” from you!

Hope it all ends well.
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New Thu 14 Apr 22 11:10 
 Citroen Berlingo Multispace - 10,000 mile Berlingo report - engine problems - Bobby
Ok was going to ask in Pistonheads for recommendations for diagnostics guys in your area but I’ve see you have dropped at a dealer.

Coincidentally as I type this I am on the Teams call and one of my colleagues has just advised he is going to a cottage up Dornoch way in a couple of weeks!
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New Wed 20 Apr 22 08:46 
 Citroen Berlingo Multispace - 10,000 mile Berlingo report - engine problems - tyro
Update: Last week I phoned around Citroen dealers, and the dealer in Perth said they could look at it on Monday 18th. Since that was far quicker than the Inverness dealer, we dropped the car at the Perth dealership last Thursday and came home in my wife's Honda. I should add that the engine warning light was off when I picked it up from the independent garage in Blairgowrie, and I kept the engine at under 2000 revs when I drove it to the dealer in Perth, and the car drove absolutely normally.

Anyway, the dealer was unable to spot any problem before they took it out for a test drive and got the revs up, but when they did that, they were able to give me a diagnosis. It needs a new fuel injector. They then told me that apparently Citroen couldn't provide one, and no longer make them because the car is so old. (Citroen stopped making that engine in 2006 as far as I know.)

Anyway, they gave me the part number so that I could see if I could source a part myself. Not that I would have a clue about how to do that - though I told my friendly local independent, and he said he would see what he could do.

The details concerning the part are, according to the email from the dealer in Perth:

"New Fuel Injector - 1980 F0
Reconditioned Fuel Injector - 1980 Y0
If any help in finding these i can tell you that these were made by Siemens when available."

Any thoughts?

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New Wed 20 Apr 22 08:56 
 Citroen Berlingo Multispace - 10,000 mile Berlingo report - engine problems - RichardW
www.autodoc.co.uk/car-parts/oem/1980f0

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New Wed 20 Apr 22 09:11 
 Citroen Berlingo Multispace - 10,000 mile Berlingo report - engine problems - smokie
Possibly used ones tinyurl.com/ym2amnte but the interesting thing is the ad has a list of part numbers which may (or may not) be alternatives you could search for.

Might be worth contacting them anyway to see what they have. Up in your neck of the woods too , vaguely.
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New Wed 20 Apr 22 15:36 
 Citroen Berlingo Multispace - 10,000 mile Berlingo report - engine problems - Fullchat
Injectors can be serviced.
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New Wed 20 Apr 22 16:41 
 Citroen Berlingo Multispace - 10,000 mile Berlingo report - engine problems - sooty123
www.eurocarparts.com/p/lucas-injector-432545182

This any good Tyro?
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New Mon 9 May 22 11:53 
 Citroen Berlingo Multispace - 10,000 mile Berlingo report - engine problems - tyro
Update: My independent garage in Inverness had no difficulty in sourcing the fuel injector - with both new and reconditioned available. (He recommended that I get a reconditioned one.)

So I got back to the main dealer in Perth who quoted me £290 to fit the part. That seemed pretty expensive to me, and someone in the business told me it was ridiculous, so it was decided that I would get the train to Perth on 28th April and drive the car up to Inverness and have the car fitted by my usual garage.

Picking up car was fine. I was told by the garage that the chap who was working on diagnosing the fault had spent about 6 hours on the job. I drove the car up to Inverness - about 100 miles - taking it carefully (under 2200 revs) and the car behaved absolutely normally. I took it to the garage, and my mechanic took it out for a quick run taking it up to 4000 revs, and he couldn't get the engine warning light to go on. He was fairly busy, so I took the car home and brought it back the following morning. On the drive in, I did get it up to 3000 revs, and about 10 minutes later, going down a fairly steep hill, the engine warning light went on and the car went into limp mode. So I pulled off the road and stopped the engine, and restarted it, and drove it (carefully) into Inverness so that it didn't go back into limp mode, but at least the engine warning light was on so that the garage could check it - which I was told was helpful.

Anyway, the injector was replaced (for a lot less than £290!) and I took the car home. It has behaved fine until yesterday, when I was going down a hill, and the engine warning light went on. The vehicle did not, however, go into limp mode (at least I don't think it did; I drove it so gently that it might just be possible that it was in limp mode, but I didn't notice - but I doubt it).
I did three further journeys yesterday, and the warning light remained on, but the car drove fine.

Here is the slightly weird thing. I didn't mention it in my initial post in this thread, but the first two times the engine warning light went on (on the 15th and on the 27th March), I was going downhill at the time. I suspected then that it was a coincidence. I'm not so sure now.
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New Mon 9 May 22 22:14 
 Citroen Berlingo Multispace - 10,000 mile Berlingo report - engine problems - Zero
we need to know the fault code.
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New Mon 9 May 22 22:52 
 Citroen Berlingo Multispace - 10,000 mile Berlingo report - engine problems - Fullchat
Kia Sportages have had issues with cutting out and going into Limp Mode due to filters in the tank getting blocked. Travelling down hill, sediment moves and blocks fuel outlet ????
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