For years, I've been using Tomtom Navigator 5 on an XDA 2 pda. I haven't been able to update the maps for ages and Tomtom now won't let me subscribe to the GPRS traffic service because Nav 5 is too prehistoric.
Mrs H has released up to £300 for me to buy a bells-and-whistles Sat Nav for my birthday but I don't know which one to get. I fancied a Garmin 1690T but there are firmware issues apparently. I would have been happy with a Tomtom but Tomtom are stopping supporting third party POIs meaning that Pocket GPS speed cameras and other POIs I use won't work. I've asked on Pocket GPS forums but got nowhere. I've read Fenlander's thread but I want more than a basic unit
I need a nice bright screen to be visible in French sunlight; I want TMC traffic data from an integrated antenna (I don't want scrappy cables all across the windscreen), I don't need bluetooth or MP3 player; ability to put truck dimensions in for when I'm towing would be a bonus and I need EU maps.
Can any of you learned lot suggest anything please?
TIA.
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You got a link to the TT POI issue? Is it on new units only or software updates to all units?
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thanks.
In that case, you can keep the TT 7xx on the list
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 27 Sep 10 at 10:43
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...I fancied a Garmin 1690T...
A Google shows that model is now available for £170.
Lots of features for the money.
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I have a TT 720GO for about 3 years and it has done me well. I use the RDS lead for traffic as I don't have a compatible mobile phone. I have had some problems but the TT Helpline, based in Amsterdam, is very good and can be contacted us a UK number which comes within your "free" calls package. Their e mail support is good too. My partner has a Garmin but I see that their speed cameras are priced per country @ £20, I think, whereas TT are £20 for a year for 17 countries. Bearing in mind that even going to Germany involves going thru 4 countries it is the TT for me.
The newest TTs do not accept the RDS plug-in aerial but have a built in system of traffic. weather, fuel prices etc called "Live" which is over £50 a year subscription
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£300 is high amount for a Sat Nav! You rather buy a smart phone with sat nav app built in :-)
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>> £300 is high amount for a Sat Nav! You rather buy a smart phone with
>> sat nav app built in :-)
>>
£300 .... clearly Mrs H thinks I'm worth it!
Smart phone .... prise my Nokia 6310i from my cold dead hand ...
Thanks for the replies folks; any more guidance welcome.
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Dont like smartphones for use as sat nav, ok for short term or emergency use, but too compromised in screen and sound for decent long term use.
I see TT might be changing minds about closing the POI's down, some muttering about a software update to free it up.
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Spend up to £150 on a satnav and enjoy spending the rest on something else for yourself... after all its only something to help you get from A2B!
(I suppose its a gadget thing, you'll obviously enjoy spending the money for all the bells and whistles, but to me thats a waste of money... everyone to their own!!) ;-)
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>> Spend up to £150 on a satnav and enjoy spending the rest on something else
>> for yourself...
>>
That would very much depend on the rules of the particular bank of SWMBO who agreed to the original release of funds.
There's usually some unmentioned hidden clause about change :)
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Back to the original question. This is the view of "What Car?" magazine on expensive SatNavs:
www.whatcar.com/car-news/sat-nav-review/more-than--200/252674
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Some modern sat navs [as shown on the above link] have too much info on screen - which may be distracting to driver!
It's a sat nav not a video game screen!
My Navman (3-yr old now but with 2009 map) works fine everywhere except some areas in London e.g. Canary Wharf ! It just confuses itself due to high rise buildings... However, I think it was my mistake for not using public transport in London.
I'd still advocate spending money on Smart phone - some latest models have 4 inch screens (and even bigger). The amoled display of HTC, Xperia etc. are wonderful.
As per record, sat nav market has already peaked last year and now falling.
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>> I'd still advocate spending money on Smart phone - some latest models have 4 inch
>> screens (and even bigger). The amoled display of HTC, Xperia etc. are wonderful.
The retina display on the iphone is far superior, and I still wouldnt use it as a sat nav.
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I use an iPhone 4 as a satnav with Tomtom, and it works very well indeed. The screen is big enough to be easily readable, it can give voice directions through the car stereo (fading the music while it does) and it recalculates much much faster than a standalone unit I have used in the past.
I wouldn't buy an iPhone just for this, but I'd buy Tomtom for the iPhone in preference to a stand alone unit.
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I have an Iphone 4, wouldn't consider it for sat nav over my tomtom.
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Zero, can I ask why you prefer it?
I've been underwhelmed by the stand-alone TT we have for our works van. The screen is nice and big, but the unit seems just a little too slow to react (afraid I don't know which model it is).
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Ok,
I have a TomTom 720, and a 16gb Iphone 4.
The Iphone screen, while being superbly detailed, lacks sufficient backlit contrast in the light conditions you find in the car. The touch screen, while being superbly accurate, is just too sensitive for an accurate finger poke at car speed.
The TT720 is just too good at being what it is, a sat nav. The iphone is a jack of all trades.
If you have a good sat nav, the iphone just don't cut it for long term use. Emergency, yes, but not as my primary tool.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 28 Sep 10 at 16:15
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I know what you mean about the sensitive screen, my biggest gripe with TT is that when you've gone all the way through entering an address manually, there is no easy way to go back if you select the wrong address at the final stage.
Hadn't noticed the screen being any less bright than the real TT devices, but then I've only used a cheap one.
For me, the fact that I always have it with me, and that the windscreen mount makes it easier to use as an mp3 player and phone as well as satnav wins over, but I understand the appeal of a device that does one thing well.
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>> Back to the original question. This is the view of "What Car?" magazine on expensive
>> SatNavs:
>>
>> www.whatcar.com/car-news/sat-nav-review/more-than--200/252674
>>
and what Which? says
tinyurl.com/264qf2a
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>>and what Which? says
Not a lot...
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>> >>and what Which? says
>>
>> Not a lot...
>>
Would that be because as a member I am logged in?
If so, I apologise.
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'Which' have never, in fact, said anything online that I've seen..... only ads referring you to subscribe. I seem to manage by occasionally popping round to the library and viewing the past 12 months worth.
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>>Would that be because as a member I am logged in?
I guess that's the reason, Duncan.
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Of course, you could just buy a couple of decent roadmaps and pocket the change ;-)....you need to get the rules clear with SWMBO.
Satnavs are pretty overrated, I can't personally see why anyone want to spend that sort of money on one? I have an OE version and rarely use it except for novelty value, it just happened to fitted when I bought the car.
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........"Satnavs are pretty overrated, I can't personally see why anyone want to spend that sort of money on one?"..........
Well each to his own... but, given that you can afford one, I can't see why you wouldn't have one.
Example One. I was in an area new to me and is a maze of unmarked country lanes, in the pitch black and pouring rain, with the valleys of the lanes filling up with 6"water in places (this is Devon, remember). Eventually I had to knock on a (remote) door to get directions out of the place.
Example two. Whilst out the other day - couldn't remember where the Hungry Horse in the middle of the housing estate in Exmouth was. Solution - look back on 'previous destinations' - click on it - get taken to the door without asking a dozen people for directions.
That, plus reminders of camera sites, can't see why not. Just an opinion, of course.
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Totally agree kb. Especially if you often drive alone to locations you have previously never, or have very rarely visited. Takes all the stress out of the process. Mine is a godsend to me.
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Agree wholeheartedly. I've only once been taken to the wrong place via sat nav. It's been a boon on several occasions.
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I used my Sat Nag.
She sat there and nagged the whole bloomin' journey.
Wish I could trade her in for £300!
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Its saved me from getting a divorce, that's far more expensive.
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>> ........"Satnavs are pretty overrated, I can't personally see why anyone want to spend that sort
>> of money on one?"..........
>>
>> Well each to his own... but, given that you can afford one, I can't see
>> why you wouldn't have one.
>>
Absolutely agree, but I'm not sure any of the stated reasons for having one couldn't be fulfilled by a cheaper version. I must admit I use mine to work out where I actually am, not where I want to get to, when I'm in an area where I don't have a 1:25000 or equivalent map.
Just being a being a bit of a devil's advocate really. I've got a £500 digital SLR because I wanted one, the compact I use also takes pictures so I guess they are the same in a broad brush sort of way......
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.........."Absolutely agree, but I'm not sure any of the stated reasons for having one couldn't be fulfilled by a cheaper version".............
Speaking personally I agree with what you're saying here - but I think that's mainly because I struggle a bit with gadgets and have a basic Snooper Syrius which had lifetime free updates thrown when I bought it and does me at present although if I thought that traffic information was worth having I'd consider it....but I haven't been convinced - especially given we don't do lots of long distance journeys. I'd be pleased to hear otherwise though.
I'm confounded by much of the technology available but acknowledge that others get a benefit from it and are happy to pay for it. (Just wish I was clever enough to grasp it !)
The choice of camera is another dilemma... to carry....(or not to carry coz it's too inconvenient).... the weight of an SLR + assorted lenses etc etc...(or one big and heavy, top quality, variable focus lens)....and risk not getting the shot as you haven't got it all set up and ready...
but ultimately perhaps get a better quality shot with it..................or just have the compact always ready......but not have the facilities the SLR offered - but you did get to take a picture as you had it handy????
My solution was a Panasonic FZ18 which is not 'too' bulky but with quite a wide and long tele. lens - but not of top quality.
Just off to put some more coal in the computer's steam generator.
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£300 on a nav Hawkeye... you know as folks have said above you get most of the features on a deal around the £150 price point.... then that leaves enough for two more ebay mowers. Birthday sorted :-)
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Are there any substantial advances in sat nav technology in the pipeline?
It would be unfortunate to spend £300 now, only to find there's a better machine for £150 in 18 months' time.
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SatNav and cruise control are the two biggest relievers of stress while driving and I wouldn't be without either. Driving to meet a client for the first time in a city centre, driving on holiday in a foreign country - who needs the stress of fiddling with maps and getting to grips with a one-way system when you're worrying about your pitch? They're the best driver aid since the steering wheel and I haven't had a cross word with my wife since we bought one.
Plus all the little extra benefits - ETAs, camera positions, speed warnings, petrol station locations and many others. And "making progress" at night in pitch-black country lanes, it's like having a co-pilot.
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Iffy that is about right! ISTR that it is the trend that capabilty doubles and price halves every 18 months to 2 years! I am with BBD too. I simply could not have managed some trips without a sat nav. A couple of years ago I had to do a 2 hour night drive, with a non-map reading passenger, from an Italian airport to a tiny village in the hills on the West side of the North end of Lake Garda. Not that easy even with a sat nav! For the rest of the time I find it useful for arrival times, traffic, accurate speed info, cameras and actually getting to somewhere that I haven't been before.
Last edited by: Perky Penguin on Tue 28 Sep 10 at 08:56
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...actually getting to somewhere that I haven't been before...
I don't have one, but only because I rarely need to look for addresses I don't know.
Speed cameras don't bother me 'cos I don't speed, and traffic jams are rare in this part of the world.
Having said that, several sensible members on here speak well of sat navs.
I would buy a £100-£150 one if my needs changed.
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Glad I'm not the only one who thinks £300 is a waste of money for a satnav...
However as others have pointed out some people are "gadget" people and, to them, its money well spent... its up to the OP and the "terms and conditions" behind the £300 "gift" which way he goes!!
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>> £300 on a nav Hawkeye... you know as folks have said above you get most
>> of the features on a deal around the £150 price point.... then that leaves enough
>> for two more ebay mowers. Birthday sorted :-)
>>
F you've got me thinking. A mower with sat nav. Now that really would be something for the bigger lawn. Maybe next year ...
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>>where the Hungry Horse in the middle of the housing estate in Exmouth was. it - get taken to the door without asking a dozen people for directions.<<<
You could have probably asked 100 people and not got a sensible answer! ;)
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>>
It would be unfortunate to spend £300 now, only to find there's a better machine for £150 in 18 months' time.
That's true for all electronic gadgets. Better wait and buy for £150 after a year :o)
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...That's true for all electronic gadgets...
Which is why I asked about any impending advances.
It may be the technology is going to be fairly static for a year or two, in which case you may as well buy a high-end machine now.
For several years we had LCD and plasma televisions - not a lot happened - but then along came LEDs.
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I'd feel a bit guilty blowing 300 squids on one, a basic TomTom has everything I want.
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"..or just have the compact always ready..."
or carry a compact such as the Samsung WB650 which also has a GPS and NavTeq maps onboard
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Even my basic cheapo tells me if its sending me up an unmade road... why are people so thick?!
This comment sums it up for me:
"Talk about being led by the nose........this is certainly true here.......I cannot believe that this guy went so far up the track......surely he must have got to the point where he thought best turn around.................most people with a smidgeon of common sense would have done that.......Why do people take sat-nav directions as gospel in stead of questioning them if they do not appear to be correct?."
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Another one who programmed "shortest route".You can now buy ones that can be programmed with size of vehicle.
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>> It would be unfortunate to spend £300 now, only to find there's a better machine
>> for £150 in 18 months' time.
>>
>> That's true for all electronic gadgets. Better wait and buy for £150 after a year
>> :o)
>>
Yes, and when the thng is £150, in a year's time there will be a better one for £75.
Take that attitude and you'll be forever waiting, and enjoying nothing in the meantime!
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Are you familiar with this spot, pmh? If so, would you agree this is a tricky one to find if you're not a local? If so, I'd feel a lot better - as I know full well I couldn't find it again without either a streetmap or GPS......my onboard brain recognition and retention system won't retain the route on it's own.
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Thank you for the input.
Don't get too hung up on the spend and whether it's a waste of money or not. At my advanced age, I'm quite capable of deciding how much money is a waste. If one includes truck parameters, £300 is a reasonable amount.
I was hoping one or two of you might say e.g., "I've got a Spadger 2500 and it's a top piece of kit; swapped my Mungle OTT for it which was always hanging." or some such.
As for it becoming out of date, as a refugee from the IT industry, I expect whatever is in the showroom to be out of date as soon as money changes hands so no worries there.
Top of my list at the mo. is a Tomtom 540 traffic loaded with the 7000 truck routing software and FM transmit through the car radio; anyone any further comments? My reservations are the out-of-dateness of Teleatlas maps and the fact that it needs a subscription to get traffic.
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Hawkeye, I've got a Spadger 2600 - an upgrade on the 2500 and it's rubbish - don't get one of those. The Mungle OTT has received very poor reviews due to it's tendency to take van drivers up Swiss goat tracks - I wouldn't get one of those either. But would like to know what you finish up with.
Have you seen the 540 for sale on Amazon? (£160) Reviews available there.
Last edited by: kb on Tue 28 Sep 10 at 12:09
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If anyone is interested, a new (I think) satnav app has just hit the app store, so if you have an iphone and are interested...
It's called Navfree, and is indeed free. The reviews say it's not that good, but hey, what do you want for nothing? Just grabbed it myself and it looks to have loads of features tucked away. Might be worth an experiment at least.
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Update;
Just bought a Garmin 1490T in Halfords Darlington and updated it and backed it up. It goes in the car tomorrow. If I remember I'll post a review after the 2011 French excursion unless it goes pop in the meantime. Thanks again for all the input
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Do post the review, hawkeye. I have an old trusty Garmin Streetpilot 530 that I hacked to speak streetnames, and I use it every day. It's been very good. But I have no experience of the newer ones, and mine will break any minute no doubt, so I'll be interested in your experiences.
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>> Update;
>> Just bought a Garmin 1490T
Good choice H, well pleased with mine...thats when She Who Must hasn't nicked it.
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...Good choice H, well pleased with mine...
gb took some winning over to sat navs, so if he likes it, it must be good.
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May I ask what the ongoing costs are? ie. Camera updates and Traffic Information?
As noted earlier my Snooper has free for life camera updates and no traffic info available - but the free updates were only because it was an outgoing model. No such thing as a free lunch...etc.
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>> Camera updates and Traffic Information?
>>
Traffic is free with lifetime subscription on Garmin's, IMO it's not a patch on a proper stand alone Trafficmaster (signal due to be turned off soon) but i doubt anything will be.
On the 1490T once you have the traffic information icon up you can enter the traffic search page and scroll down the list of traffic problems anywhere in ever increasing distance, i presume that's similar to other Garmins and something my sons TT doesn't do (only on programmed route), though his TT does other things better to be fair.
For camera updates it's probably cheaper and more up to date to use pocketgpsworlds database.
Iffy...i'm still not convinced by them, dragged kicking and screaming into the modern world and not liking it one bit..;)
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Wed 29 Sep 10 at 21:51
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...i'm still not convinced by them, dragged kicking and screaming into the modern world and not liking it one bit...
gb,
In your profession, I imagine you carry more than one paper map book.
Sat navs are another source of navigation information to be used sensibly in conjunction with the other sources available.
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Agreed. But at least SWMBO doesn't have to try to navigate any more.
Future Exam question: "SatNavs are the best marital aid ever invented. Discuss"
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>> In your profession, I imagine you carry more than one paper map book.
>>
>> Sat navs are another source of navigation information to be used sensibly in conjunction with
>> the other sources available.
>>
Summed up perfecto Iffy, it's when people rely blindly on these things that it all goes pear shaped.
Bridges generally were not a problem on the car carriers, being well marked and listed on the right maps, trees were by far the biggest headache and they don't appear on any maps.
Not any more though...yessss.
Once in a while if going somewhere new and i was home the night before i'd check the roads on google satellite view and judge for meself the best likely approach in rural areas for tree probs, LR Subaru etc dealers tend to be in some out of the way places.
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I am thinking of buying a TomTom XL Live UK/ROI. I don't go anywhere much now but I like toys and gadgets. However can someone tell me what happens when you are following a Satnav route and you stop for a rest and turn off the engine or turn off the satnav.
Do the instructions continue from where you left off or do you have to programme in your destination again or do you just keep the satnav on if you should take it out of the car, for safety reasons?
Can someone please elucidate.
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Mine returns to where you were when you turned it off. To be honest, when I stop I simply unhook the TT from the vent mount and pop it in the armrest cubby, so I don't bother to turn it off anyway.
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The tomtom remembers where you were when you turned it off, and when you turn it on again, tries to guide you to your original destination.
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Thanks one and all for that information.
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>> The tomtom remembers where you were when you turned it off, and when you turn
>> it on again, tries to guide you to your original destination.
>>
Well, I bought the one I referred to above i.e. TomTom XL Live UK/ROI and it is very clever and I suppose, useful if you do a lot of driving. However, I have checked lots of my usual and known routes on it and am surprised by the circuitous routes it chooses, especially if you select 'shortest route' when planning a journey.
In fact every journey from my house (which sits by a road running due N/S makes me go North first, to any journey to the south of my home and then makes me turn left, left, left and then right to bring me back to my road less than a quarter of a mile away!! Of course I ignore this and then it recalculates etc.
Oh, well, it's another plaything to amuse an old codger, who loves his toys.
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...makes me go North first...
I know nothing about these gadgets, but have you tried facing in the right direction and then asking for the route?
Or maybe drive 100yds south and then ask it.
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If you drive south it will recalculate the route automatically, as it does if you ignore it's route. It is best to use fastest route, shortest route could put you on some poor quality obscure roads.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Mon 4 Oct 10 at 16:21
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>> If you drive south it will recalculate the route automatically, as it does if you
>> ignore it's route. It is best to use fastest route, shortest route could put you
>> on some poor quality obscure roads.
>>
You're telling me!! Some well known routes, when planned on the Satnav using 'shortest route', give some preposterous routes and terrible roads, with which I'm very familar
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>> If you drive south it will recalculate the route automatically, as it does if you
>> ignore it's route. It is best to use fastest route, shortest route could put you
>> on some poor quality obscure roads.
>>
You're telling me!! I have checked some familiar routes using 'shortest route' and they give some preposterous routes involving some really grotty, narrow roads.
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I set up mine indoors using the postcode facility but when my house number was inputted it said 'not recognised' and instead of 123 *****Lane, house number 113 was offered instead
.
Someone on the Tomtom forums suggested I go outside and set 'Home' using the alternative GPS button which set accurate co-ordinates and this I did. However most Southerly journeys still lead me round the back doubles if I were to follow these, which of course I wouldn't, having lived here for 70 years!!
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I set my home to someone else's on the basis that there was a story doing the rounds that sat-navs were being stolen - the home location checked by thieves and the house screwed.
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"I set my home to someone else's on the basis that there was a story doing the rounds that sat-navs were being stolen - the home location checked by thieves and the house screwed."
Mine takes me to the entrance of the street, but not the actual house
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>> However most Southerly journeys still
>> lead me round the back doubles if I were to follow these, which of course
>> I wouldn't, having lived here for 70 years!!
>>
Mine would always direct me along a dirt farm road to the nearby motorway, I just "blocked" the road in the satnav setup, problem solved.
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I set my home as the house across the street - just in case it was stolen.
Some months later the chap@ No 11 was setting up his - he had setup my home being his.
Great minds think alike, fools seldom differ!
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The one I chose has it coming to him - a ying an yang thing...
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>> The one I chose has it coming to him - a ying an yang thing...
>>
Ah, but finally setting 'home' with the GPS button solves the house number problem, as the position in the road is correct without any house number being revealed although I'd be quite happy with house 113 being the default as mine is 5 houses away on the same side, of course.
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I set my home to a nearby road junction, The only time it is used is to give me a route to the motorway home, for ETA and traffic info, when I am far off my patch.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Mon 4 Oct 10 at 19:22
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routes.tomtom.com/route/Cleland%2520Road%252C%2520Carfin%252C%2520Motherwell%252C%2520UK%254055.80266%252C-3.96323%2540-1/Meadowhead%2520Road%252C%2520Wishaw%252C%2520UK%254055.7815%252C-3.95589%2540-1/?leave=now&traffic=true¢er=55.791405144311%2C-3.9790625&zoom=12&map=basic
Dunno if that link will work, but it's a route with near enough a straight road between two points. Perfectly normal road, i use it regularly, but tomtom routes a 3 mile detour to the west for no good reason.
As soon as you turn onto the road it refuses to use, it changes it's mind "ahh, go straight on".
The John Cleese voice over still cracks me up, so it's all good.
Last edited by: Skoda on Mon 4 Oct 10 at 20:02
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Ozzie Osbourne is the one I aspire to "Turn ******* right"
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Satnav is only an aid to navigation, it is not infallible.
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>> Satnav is only an aid to navigation, it is not infallible.
But i tell you, what an aid it is!
I've only just rediscovered the love for mine since a wee trip to Holland the other week, it's lay in a drawer for longer than i can tell, but since Sunday it's permanently wired in, power from the fuse box and the traffic aerial / cable hidden inside the A-pillar trim.
It knew speed limits, speed cameras, lanes, you name it :-) I was blown away when it had an absolute hissy fit when i was maneuvering on the wrong side of the road in Holland, haven't been able to replicate that so maybe just co-incidental timing or something. Neat trick all the same...
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Agreed ON, the SatNav on my bike failed within an hour of arriving in France last June. Fortunately I'd packed maps and pre-planning routes became an evening task before beer and food, this and looking for road signs became a pleasure actually. SatNav replaced under warranty thanks to excellent service from Williams BMW in Manchester.
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Any ocean going ship bridge watchkeeper will note its position on a chart at regular intervals, so that when there is a complete power failure, or the satellites fall from the sky, (or are switched off) they know where they are.
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Hardly a problem in rural France but I get the point. Maps are nice really.
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>> Hardly a problem in rural France but I get the point. Maps are nice really.
>>
Chart, (map), and pencil. Anything else is an aid, and not to be trusted. :)
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Weirdly I wrote out a route card in my Hotel in Arras - the names that went down covered hundreds of years of British military endeavour - that really wouldn't have registered on a Sat-Nav.
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In Peckham last year my Garmin sent us along 'roads' that had flats built on them 10+ years previously?? They are an aid and little more. Delivery drivers here in rural North Devon swear at them, not by them.
M
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The words I use in North Devon and Cornwall Martin, are 'Shut up Tom, I'll go my way'!
Pat
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Not another one ...
"... built in 1989 ..."
My old Tomtom with Teleatlas maps showed a route passable by car to a village called Barton that hasn't been used by a car in living memory. Just passable by joggers, cyclists and dog-walkers.
Annoyingly, Tomtom's online planner has the same anomaly as at a fortnight ago so the data is, at best, 35 years out of date.
My new Garmin doesn't have this issue.
Second point; just how fast do you have to be going down an unlit, single-track road so that you can't stop when your headlights show the road being submerged? The car sank in a couple of minutes; they all do give-or-take, so how long does it take you to get out of a car even if you're only going shopping? Two blokes, late on a Saturday night, cross country, are we missing something?
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...Two blokes, late on a Saturday night, cross country, are we missing something?...
Can't think what you mean, unless they were chatting companionably and not paying attention.
Looking at the pictures (from the link in The Guardian story), I reckon it would be easy enough to drive into the water.
There is a short decline before the water, and it may already be too late to put the anchors (ho-ho) on from the top of the hill.
Not IAM gold medal standard observation, but if they were pressing on a bit, I can see how it might happen.
No different to hitting some standing water without realising it was there, which I think we've all done.
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Maybe a couple of signs and a barrier might not have gone amiss...
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Looking at Googlemaps, the satellite pictures show an enormous reservoir but the map shows only a river with a road-bridge going over it.
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I think this is it where even Google maps shows the road old route *driving under water* but the real road bridge is seen 1.5km to the south east.
maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=38.893605,-5.185976&spn=0.020408,0.045362&t=h&z=15
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Could be either but in any case there are a variety of underwater roads still on Google in that area.
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Help me choose a Sat Nav - Zero
