Non-motoring > Yorkshire CC and the saga.... Tax / Insurance / Warranties
Thread Author: No FM2R Replies: 55

 Yorkshire CC and the saga.... - No FM2R
I have no knowledge or particular opinion about Yorkshire CC and what did or did not happen, but this caught my eye..

www.bbc.com/sport/cricket/59231560

Akram posted a screenshot of an email he had received on Twitter. It included the email address and phone number of Ms. Neto the head of HR.

She unwisely emailed...

"The fact you redacted your details but left mine in full view shows you to be a coward. I do hope you are proud, you certainly sound very proud."

Most unwise, but it is his response that made me note;

Mr Akram told BBC Sport: "It's left me in tears, distraught and in shock. It makes me think that next time I won't be raising any more complaints. Instead of being sensitive, they have pushed me to the edge.

"in tears, distraught and in shock"?? FFS.

Last edited by: No FM2R on Wed 10 Nov 21 at 13:38
 Yorkshire CC and the saga.... - Bromptonaut
So Mr Akram's gripe is that he and his family were racially abused at a Headingly fixture in 2018.

He complained to the club but says that the promised investigation didn't happen. Neither was it followed up by the Police. He felt let down

Advance 3 years and Yorkshire CC are in the frame. A number of complaints strongly suggest they're not taking racism in their own ranks seriously.

Mr Akram, in a #me2 kind of a way, then publicises what he perceives to have been a brush off from a club official acting in her professional capacity. More evidence of failure to act on racism.

Now maybe, in the current atmosphere for complaints/threats he would have been wiser, even though she was acting in her publicly stated professional role, to redact her name too.

She could have just messaged him on Twitter and asked him to consider retraction.

Instead she goes full on hissy and accuses him publicly of being a coward and proud of it.

I think I understand why Akram is shocked - she's totally unprofessional and if she's not shown the door her case will be more grist to the mill of Yorkshire CC's accusers.



Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Wed 10 Nov 21 at 14:04
 Yorkshire CC and the saga.... - No FM2R
>> So Mr Akram's gripe is that he and his family were racially abused at a
>> Headingly fixture in 2018.

Yes.

>> He complained to the club but says that the promised investigation didn't happen. Neither was it followed up by the Police. He felt let down

I think that is unclear. Certainly it appears that they did not follow up with him, but it is nto clear that they did nothing.

>> Advance 3 years and Yorkshire CC are in the frame. A number of complaints strongly
>> suggest they're not taking racism in their own ranks seriously.

Well, I have no idea of the reality, but it wouldn't surprise me to find out that inappropriate and racist comments were rife in the name of "banter".

You know, in the context of the type of people that think there was nothing wrong with "Love thy Neighbour" and Bernard Manning because it's just joking, innit.

>> Mr Akram, in a #me2 kind of a way, then publicises what he perceives to
>> have been a brush off from a club official acting in her professional capacity. More
>> evidence of failure to act on racism.

One could wonder about his motivation, but yes that seems to be the essence of it.

>> Now maybe, in the current atmosphere for complaints/threats he would have been wiser, even though she was acting in her publicly stated professional role, to redact her name too.

Yes, I would say so.

>> Instead she goes full on hissy and accuses him publicly of being a coward and
>> proud of it.

Well, I don't think she did it publicly, I gathered it was an email to him. I may well be wrong though.

>> she's totally unprofessional

Agreed. Totally unacceptable. Dismissable? Not sure, certainly close. It would probably depend on previous behaviour. Certainly some heavy consequence is called for.

>>and if she's not shown the door her case will be more grist to the mill of Yorkshire CC's accusers.

Don't give a crap about that.

>> I think I understand why Akram is shocked

Shocked, well bit strong but perhaps. Annoyed, oh yes I can see that. But "It's left me in tears"??

Really.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Wed 10 Nov 21 at 14:58
 Yorkshire CC and the saga.... - No FM2R
Well, how about that for an "oops".

www.bbc.com/sport/cricket/59338118

There he is, busy with his outrage and accusations of racism and lamenting the personal upset he suffered because of it, and then he suddenly has to start apologising for a whole bunch of anti-Semitic (I dislike that phrase) s***e in his own social media.

Awkward.
 Yorkshire CC and the saga.... - Zero
What a two faced geet
 Yorkshire CC and the saga.... - bathtub tom
Hoist with his own petard, like the Liverpool bomber? Still, he got his fifteen minutes of fame.
 Yorkshire CC and the saga.... - tyrednemotional
...those left-wing Universities will be offering courses in "Offence Archeology" next...

(I wonder if Kevin would like to comment on how he feels about being named after a dog....?)
 Yorkshire CC and the saga.... - Kevin
>(I wonder if Kevin would like to comment on how he feels about being named after a dog....?)

I'm quite proud actually - my claim to fame at last!

It's almost as satisfying as the regular abuse I got from thick Afrikaaners for being a "kaffirboetie".

Kevin the Canine might have cause for complaint though - being associated with some a s s hole in Basingstoke.
 Yorkshire CC and the saga.... - Zero
KKK. Kevin is a Krap Kanine name
 Yorkshire CC and the saga.... - Kevin
What do you call a dog with ankyloglossia?
 Yorkshire CC and the saga.... - sooty123
It's perfectly possible to be offensive to others and then at a different place and a different time to be a victim of unacceptable behavour.
Neither are on, but I think we like to muddle the two up. Makes it easier for people to make sense of things I guess.
 Yorkshire CC and the saga.... - Manatee
>> It's perfectly possible to be offensive to others and then at a different place and
>> a different time to be a victim of unacceptable behavour.

Almost inevitable I'd say. Can there be any decent person who has never said something nasty that they would rather did not re-surface?

The difference now is that it lives forever on the internet.
 Yorkshire CC and the saga.... - No FM2R
>> It's perfectly possible to be offensive to others and then at a different place and
>> a different time to be a victim of unacceptable behavour.
>> Neither are on, but I think we like to muddle the two up. Makes it
>> easier for people to make sense of things I guess.


No, neither are right. One does not excuse the other. One does make the other more or less bad.

But it does kind of put the declarations of personal outrage, emotional upset, deep shock and distraught state of mind into context.

Hypocritical t***.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Thu 18 Nov 21 at 19:19
 Yorkshire CC and the saga.... - Zero
>> >> It's perfectly possible to be offensive to others and then at a different place
>> and
>> >> a different time to be a victim of unacceptable behavour.

Of course it is, but you loose the right to complain about it when it happens to you. ESPECIALLY when you do on a wide audience social media
 Yorkshire CC and the saga.... - sooty123
No, neither are right. One does not excuse the other. One does make the other
>> more or less bad.
>>
>> But it does kind of put the declarations of personal outrage, emotional upset, deep shock
>> and distraught state of mind into context.
>>
>> Hypocritical t***.
>>

I'm not sure it does, to me they still remain separate issues. Perhaps you could argue it goes to the character of the individual, maybe you'd be right i don't know. But I did watch parts of his evidence to the committee this week. I found him compelling and spoke well, clearly he was clearly very upset about what happened to him.

Speaking more generally, I find myself more these days thinking that when people go digging around and find stuff such as this they aren't doing it on an interest of public discussion or anti-anything, simply that they want to undermine the individual and switch the narrative. Perhaps that's just me and Perhaps I'm wrong, it's just the way it seems more and more now.

 Yorkshire CC and the saga.... - Manatee
>> Hoist with his own petard, like the Liverpool bomber?

Literally, in the bomber's case.
 Yorkshire CC and the saga.... - Bromptonaut
What did he actually say?

There's a difficulty in that anything critical of the state of Israel is prone to be categorised as anti Semitic.

Marie van der Zyl, president of the Board of Deputies of British Jews, said: "Azeem Rafiq has suffered terribly at the hands of racists in cricket so he will well understand the hurt this exchange will cause to Jews who have supported him.

"His apology certainly seems heartfelt and we have no reason to believe he is not completely sincere."


Maybe, just maybe, the anti Semitic stuff was posted to try and find favour with his team mates.

I think those here crying hypocrisy, as if that justifies the actions of his Yorkshire team mates, need to do a bit more thinking...
 Yorkshire CC and the saga.... - No FM2R

>>I think those here crying hypocrisy, as if that justifies the actions of his Yorkshire team mates, need to do a bit more thinking...

To balance your wild and ridiculous fantasies? No, I don't think I can be a***d.

I think you need to to a bit more reading. Start with the replies above. Keep reading until you manage to grasp what was said.
 Yorkshire CC and the saga.... - Bromptonaut
>> To balance your ? No, I don't think I can be a***d.
>>
>>
>> I think you need to to a bit more reading. Start with the replies above.
>> Keep reading until you manage to grasp what was said.

I'd read them before replying. None of the above 'wild and ridiculous fantasies' schizzle has any meaning in relation to what I wrote.

Most media seem to be shy of printing what he actually said; we have to rely in the Sun to have the balls to do it:

www.thesun.co.uk/sport/16777869/azeem-rafiq-anti-semitic-facebook-post-racism-yorkshire/

The usual old trope of Jews being tight with money and after anything that's free, like seconds at meal times. It was certainly commonplace in the whole of society not that long ago to use the word Jew as substitute for swindle - 'he'll Jew you' was certainly in use well into the seventies. So was the phrase 'thieving Arab'.

He shouldn't have said it and he's now apologised.

It's beyond absurd to try an suggest that a short set of 'off' comments makes a nonsense of his real hurt at the concerted ill treatment he received and his reaction to how it affected his life.

Whoever dug this up and passed it on to the media, surely not somebody in the cricket establishment, is trying to divert.

And judging by the reaction of some here they've succeeded,
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Fri 19 Nov 21 at 08:45
 Yorkshire CC and the saga.... - No FM2R
Your argument is too ridiculous to warrant a reply.
 Yorkshire CC and the saga.... - Bromptonaut
>> Your argument is too ridiculous to warrant a reply.

Really?

Are you seriously still trying to stack up some kind of moral equivalence between the life changing effect of treatment meted out to him and some off colour banter on Facebook?
 Yorkshire CC and the saga.... - Manatee
>>Are you seriously still trying to stack up some kind of moral equivalence between the life changing effect of treatment meted out to him and some off colour banter on Facebook?

Is there a difference between what was directed at and/or in the presence of the subject, and how someone was described between others? I think there would be.

I'm pretty sure I must have used language that was "of its time" now and then. Fortunately I can't remember doing so but then I can't remember much in detail these days. Thank glub there was no internet.
 Yorkshire CC and the saga.... - PeterS
Off colour banter is unacceptable, whatever the media, and for the people affected a Facebook post can be another part of the constant drip drip drip of abuse and discrimination they face. You might think that one post by one person is ‘banter’, but if multiple people are doing the same, via multiple media or face to face, over a long time period it is life changing.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 20 Nov 21 at 20:49
 Yorkshire CC and the saga.... - No FM2R
I repeat....

>> Your argument is too ridiculous to warrant a reply.
 Yorkshire CC and the saga.... - PeterS

>> The usual old trope of Jews being tight with money and after anything that's free,
>> like seconds at meal times. It was certainly commonplace in the whole of society not
>> that long ago to use the word Jew as substitute for swindle - 'he'll Jew
>> you' was certainly in use well into the seventies. So was the phrase 'thieving Arab'.
>>

While I don’t think I’m much younger than you, I can safely say that neither expression has been common place in my lifetime, in any school, university, workplace or social setting. So that’s over 40 years of not being commonplace. If anyone in my social/professional circle said either I’d be shocked…it’d be up there with the use of the word ‘N****r in unacceptability!!
 Yorkshire CC and the saga.... - No FM2R
I'm older than Peter, and whilst I am aware of the expressions they've never been in common use in my circles.

I would not accept them were they to be said in my presence. I doubt I ever would have accepted them.
 Yorkshire CC and the saga.... - Robin O'Reliant
>> Maybe, just maybe, the anti Semitic stuff was posted to try and find favour with
>> his team mates.

So if someone worked in a place where racism was the norm and started making racist jokes about blacks and Asians to find favour with his workmates that would be ok?
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 19 Nov 21 at 03:24
 Yorkshire CC and the saga.... - bathtub tom
>> So if someone worked in a place where racism was the norm and started making
>> racist jokes about blacks and Asians to find favour with his workmates that would be
>> ok?

That was certainly the case back in the '70s, where I worked with a guy and we'd insult each other with racist jibes, until he made a formal complaint against me. We were sperated and lost a cushty little number. Within a couple of weeks he made a racist jibe about another colleague, who made a formal complaint.

Guess who resigned immediately and left a very well paid job?
 Yorkshire CC and the saga.... - sooty123
What did he actually say?

It related to a conversation on twitter with a then cricketer at Warwickshire, i believe, over someone not/late paying their cricket subs.
 Yorkshire CC and the saga.... - Duncan
Are we allowed to use the word "welsh" as a verb?

i.e. 'to welsh on a deal'

www.dictionary.com/browse/welsh
 Yorkshire CC and the saga.... - Bromptonaut
>> Are we allowed to use the word "welsh" as a verb?
>>
>> i.e. 'to welsh on a deal'
>>
>> www.dictionary.com/browse/welsh

Who else remembers Flanders and Swan?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vh-wEXvdW8&ab_channel=LeonPFB
 Blackface - Bobby
news.sky.com/story/england-cricketer-alex-hales-apologises-for-reckless-and-foolish-use-of-blackface-at-2009-party-12472158

Please, no “pile on” to me. I am genuinely curious as to what is wrong with this? I know nowadays you aren’t allowed to ask these questions in public for fear of being vilified but I am not sure what the actual offence is.

Dressing up to look like someone else, to mirror their features? Discussed it with a colleague today who had similar thoughts. He suggested that it maybe dates back to black and minstrel show and backing up there was done as some sort of disrespectful way?

So is it racist as you are highlighting skin colour? Does that make it racist? Would wearing a red wig and kilt make it racist against Scottish?

I can certainly see occasions where blackfacing could be deemed racist if you were doing it in a derogatory manner.

Genuinely would appreciate thoughts?
 Blackface - Robin O'Reliant
I can't see what all the fuss is about that, unless you belong to The Professionally Offended.
 Blackface - Zero
It needs to be seen in the light of the time it was done.

OK, it was only 12 years ago, but I suspect the act of "blackfacing" was not universally seen as offensive then. When dos the statute of limitations run out on being branded "Racist"

As Rafiq himself is now finding out, accused for crimes some ten years back.
 Blackface - PeterS
Was blacking up acceptable 12 years ago? It was marginal in the ‘80s surely, so by the turn of the century just long forgotten history I’d have thought?
 Blackface - Biggles
Would going to a fancy dress party as the hulk or shrek, with a green face be OK?
 Blackface - Zero
>> Would going to a fancy dress party as the hulk or shrek, with a green
>> face be OK?

As there is no race of Hulkians or Shrekians then no one could be offended.

 Blackface - No FM2R
>> then no one could be offended.

Oh you under estimate the world of third party offense taking. I am sure that someone would find a "whiff" of something, or a "dog whistle" of something else.
 Blackface - Terry
Stereotypes based on skin colour, gender, nationality, sexuality, and even names are clearly all discriminatory.

Offence is based on the perceptions of the offended, not any rational or objective standard.

To conform to current acceptable societal behaviours we should act as though none of these differentiators actually exist, and make no reference either directly or through implication.

The end game is that we all become clones - a sort of denial of different DNA.

All quite daft - I have no doubt that in a few decades language that we now regard as woke or politically correct will be deemed as unacceptable as "P", "C", "N" etc words are today!
 Blackface - Manatee
>>Genuinely would appreciate thoughts?

I'm in favour of 'woke' in principle - nothing wrong with being alert to others' feelings and avoiding the gratuitous, incidental or accidental giving of general offence. Where I don't like it is in the relentless demonisation of offence givers for any every minor infraction decades ago or as callow youths. It is unlikely to change hearts and minds even if a kind of compliance results.

I grew up with the Black and White Minstrel Show on TV. Unbelievably it lasted until I was in my mid 20's in 1978 although I probably hadn't seen it for several years by then. I remember finding it very tedious, as I did and still do find all 'variety' shows but I don't specifically recall thinking it was offensive and I don't think it was a racist act to watch and enjoy it, as many people must have.

So I do understand your point Bobby but I think we have now reached the point, in terms of the societal context, where it is now somewhere on the scale of offensiveness. Bad taste is the absolute best you can say for it. I would rather it wasn't actually proscribed but I think we are now about at the point.

I'm certainly willing to abjure my right to dress up as a 'minstrel' if it makes others happier.
 Yorkshire CC and the saga.... - No FM2R
From Janice Turner writing in the TImes....

Yorkshire’s ugly secret was no surprise to me

It’s a short step from the God’s Own Country cussedness and exceptionalism to a fear of outsiders and then racism

I pulled at tea towels on a high shelf and “Yorkshire County Cricket Club, official souvenir” tumbled down. It must be from my parents’ house, since my father was a YCCC member for over 50 years. I see him now, setting off to Headingley, Scarborough or, behind enemy lines, Old Trafford. My mum packing his “snap” into Tupperware boxes. His battered sun hat with the white rose.

In Yorkshire, cricket was always a working-class sport. As a boy, my dad and his pals batted until dusk, a wicket chalked on the shed door. He joined The Wanderers who, unable to afford their own ground, always played away. Even when dying he talked Yorkshire cricket with a young male carer, who joked “Well, you’re not out yet, Dennis”, and my father managed to whisper “Howzat!”.

Yorkshire cricket is woven into the county’s own mythology. I heard a lot of that, too, growing up. God’s Own Country. How Yorkshire was so huge and mighty, “they” (southerners) had to chop it into ridings and later South, North, West and Humberside to hamstring its rough, rebel power. Yorkshire believed it must look out for itself or be screwed over, not unreasonably, as proved by broken rail promises this week.


Its most revered warriors were dour, cussed, stubborn individualists epitomised by “King” Geoffrey Boycott, whom my dad loved, accumulating runs at his own selfish pace, heedless of his team’s needs. Yorkshire’s credo was: “Hear all, see all, say nowt; Eat all, sup all, pay nowt; And if ever tha does owt fer nowt, Allus do it fer thissen”. My dad liked to recite that, although no one was more generous and neighbourly.

A proud Yorkshireman was tough, watchful, self-sufficient, no one’s fool. He prized bluntness over fancy manners or even others’ feelings. (My father couldn’t be polite about
a bad meal, no matter how I pleaded “for once just be nice”.) He regarded outsiders and their foreign ways with suspicion — until you were a friend, then he’d die for you. Such tenets bred a belligerent incuriosity about the wider world, which growing up drove me mad. Then drove me away.

Inevitably from Yorkshire exceptionalism, and a prizing of harsh, unfettered speech, comes racism. Terrible, shameful, ugly racism. The rows I had with my father, the words he’d use, which had me storming from the house, stomping dark streets, swearing I’d never come home again.

For all that, he’d barely met a brown person. My town was almost entirely white, my school had maybe two black children, and they must have endured hell given that my friend, white but originally from Surrey, got enough grief for her southern vowels.

I’d assumed things had improved now that demographics have shifted, Asian cabbies take me from Doncaster station and Morrisons is full of pakoras and rogan josh. No doubt they have improved among an enlightened younger generation. But I was unsurprised by what happened to Azeem Rafiq.

If being born a Yorkshireman was blessed, playing cricket for Yorkshire was to be divine. No wonder it was reserved only for those born on sacred Yorkshire soil until 1992. The county cricket club is Yorkshire exceptionalism’s grand lodge. The birth rule kept the club white decades after every other had at least a token black player. After that, the old guard had to retain purity by cruder means.

What hurt my heart most was Rafiq’s broad Barnsley accent. All he wanted was to belong, to play for the team revered by his community, to be a proud Yorkshireman too. All that abuse he sucked down, the slights, P-words, crass gags about elephant washers and corner shops. Even now, more sad than angry, he believes team-mates who apologise deserve a second chance.

He noted a different culture when loaned to Derbyshire, only a short distance south. In Yorkshire, he saw visiting foreign players, even black ones, treated warmly while the homegrown Asians were disdained. How very Yorkshire, I thought: you’re our most welcome guest, let’s get the kettle on. Just don’t ever think you’re one of us.

What a waste for the club that racism stopped it using one of its greatest resources. While white boys are drawn to football, it’s British Asians who play cricket with the obsession of my father as a boy.

Go to India or Pakistan and in every dusty village backstreet you see a skinny brown lad running up to bowl. The fathers or grandfathers of men like Rafiq brought that love over to Barnsley or Bradford, and placed it on the steps of Headingley as a gift. Only for small-minded blowhards to kick it away. That Asians make up 30 per cent of grassroots cricket but only 4 per cent of professionals isn’t just despicable, it’s profoundly dumb.

Think not just what Asians could do for cricket, but what cricket could do for Yorkshire’s stark racial divide. Interviewing Baroness Warsi in Dewsbury once I was struck by how two communities, with separate schools, clubs and lives, were plonked together in the moors. Cricket could enable integration. Instead, Asians had to set up their own league, which YCCC ensured did not feed into its talent pool.

My father’s racism was a product of his all-white life. He once visited London when our house was being painted by West Indian decorators, led by the elderly, very proper Mr Miller. I dreaded what my dad might say, but after a week of chatting and making tea, he declared: “Mr Miller is a craftsman.”

If that most cussed of old Yorkshiremen could shift his views, so can the wilfully blind who’ve kept the county’s cricket club frozen in time.
 Yorkshire CC and the saga.... - Manatee
Makes a neat article, but if there's anything wrong with it it is seeing YCCC as an analogue or mirror of Yorkshire. It isn't IMO, it's about sport, not Yorkshire.

Professional sportsmen (mostly the men I suspect) are not in general great philosophers, nor should we expect them to be. They are super-competitive, often exceptionally egotistical, sometimes lacking in education. If they do happen to be a scholar or a gentleman then that is incidental and a bonus. Many I suspect are not very sportsmanlike either - when it's a career, that instinct is likely to be drowned out by the desire to win.

Yorkshire folk aren't really any different to provincial people of similar social backgrounds anywhere else. Why would they be? Yorkshire has absorbed a tremendous number of immigrants from the Caribbean and South Asia. It is certainly far from a white enclave now and hasn't been since the late 60's/early 70's (the author I note was born in Wakefield in 1964 although that doesn't necessarily mean she grew up there).

I've a good mind to be offended myself that somebody, anybody, including one born there herself, should suggest that Yorkshire roots explain a tendency to racism.
 Yorkshire CC and the saga.... - No FM2R
Don't care, not from Yorkshire, don't like cricket, think their infamous bluntness is just another word for uneducated rudeness and found the one girlfriend I had from Yorkshire to be very annoying. And a bunny boiler.

But I enjoyed the article.
 Yorkshire CC and the saga.... - Kevin
>..think their infamous bluntness is just another word for uneducated rudeness..

Keep thinking that.
 Yorkshire CC and the saga.... - No FM2R
Why wouldn't I?
 Yorkshire CC and the saga.... - Kevin
Because it's simply incorrect.
 Yorkshire CC and the saga.... - tyrednemotional
...in some cases it's educated rudeness...
 Yorkshire CC and the saga.... - No FM2R
A matter of opinion, I guess. It's a ridiculous behaviour to be proud of to my mind.
 Yorkshire CC and the saga.... - Manatee
>> A matter of opinion, I guess.

Absolutely. IMO there is much to be said for direct speech in everyday interactions, although you also need other tools in your box for different circumstances. Silence can work well, another supposed Yorkshire trait.

But the YCCC cricket thing isn't Yorkshire behaviour, it's just a form of bullying. I'm just disappointed there was no one around of sufficient intelligence to stop it.
 Yorkshire CC and the saga.... - No FM2R
I don't really know Yorkshire to be fair, beyond Emmerdale Farm that is. I've spent little time there.

There are stubborn and rude people in Wales that take pride in their behaviour, they're also in Devon and everywhere else I suspect.

So, I'll take your point of view on Yorkshire people in general, but I'll keep mine on the stupidity and ignorance of people who are proud of all this "being rude and ignorant is something to be proud of" s***e, where ever they're from.

But I will say it does seem to be something that often Yorkshire people boast of, whether true or not.
 Yorkshire CC and the saga.... - Manatee
>>But I will say it does seem to be something that often Yorkshire people boast of, whether true or not.

Most people can laugh at themselves. I like to say Yorkshire folk are similar to Scots, but with the generosity removed. I'll go a long way to save a fiver, but that doesn't stop me being generous to friends and those less fortunate.

My wife is known for being blunt and it isn't deliberate but perfectly natural. Not rude, but some people can take it that way. She also has a broader accent than I do and people put the two together and say she's a "proper Yorkshire lass". No doubt about that but she is a truly kind person.

Mostly it's just a way of speaking. I've noticed that Germans can come across that way when they speak English.

Yobs of course exist, are everywhere and of all ages. Some even have cut-glass accents.

I try, not always successfully, to follow the golden rule. The fact that people can leave school without even knowing what that is, I regard as a failure of the education system.
 Yorkshire CC and the saga.... - Bromptonaut
As a fellow Yorkshireman I agree with Manatee. The cricket club is not a reflection of the county; it wasn't so even when players had to be born there.

I was born in Leeds in the dying days of 1959 and I certainly recognise some of the characteristics Janice describes. Not in my own family, with the exception of, perhaps, one great Uncle but certainly amongst friends' parents.

Emerging evidence suggests that while the YCCC example may be particularly egregious other Counties, and the national team seem infected with the same sort of behaviour.
 Yorkshire CC and the saga.... - sooty123
I thought the article was mainly tripe, all the stuff that about her dad, that conveniently fitted in with the theme of her article, could safely be filled under, stuff that never actually happened.

Anyway, the more important stuff. The often repeated statement that you had to be born in Yorkshire to play for YCCC until the 90s was mainly a myth. The vast majority were, but there were enough that weren't to make it no more than a rule of thumb.
 Yorkshire CC and the saga.... - Zero
>> I thought the article was mainly tripe, all the stuff that about her dad, that
>> conveniently fitted in with the theme of her article, could safely be filled under, stuff
>> that never actually happened.
>>
>> Anyway, the more important stuff. The often repeated statement that you had to be born
>> in Yorkshire to play for YCCC until the 90s was mainly a myth. The vast
>> majority were, but there were enough that weren't to make it no more than a
>> rule of thumb.

I thought it spot on, one only needs to have listened to Freddie Truman, Geoffrey Boycott et al
 Yorkshire CC and the saga.... - Manatee

>> I thought it spot on, one only needs to have listened to Freddie Truman, Geoffrey
>> Boycott et al

Even you wouldn't extrapolate from them to 5 million people. Professional sportsmen both and far more reflective of that than where they were born.

I once spent an evening in the company of Fred, during his second and much longer career as a professional Yorkshireman; a cipher, a persona. Boycott is representative only of Boycott.
 Yorkshire CC and the saga.... - No FM2R
>>I thought the article was mainly tripe

I thought it was interesting, actually, though perhaps not the obvious message.

For example I'd not say her Father was racist, though he clearly said racist things. He was abusive about stuff he didn't know, really because he didn't know rather than because he hated it for itself.

It's a British trait, I think. It's easier to hate (dislike?) than it is to love. To love or support takes courage and frequently knowledge. To denigrate does not, that's easy. Thus it is easier to dislike the unknown rather than embrace it. And we all know what a group of like minded people are like when they get together, good or bad.

One of my Grandfathers possessed the most racist of speech habits. Some of the stuff he said would make your toes curl and caused many a fall out, especially about Pakistanis, for some reason. I'm not sure he ever met someone from Pakistan, or anywhere else for that matter. I don't think he was racist per se, he just trusted nothing that came from more than about 10 miles away and didn't think about what he said.

My other Grandfather was quite different. No education, a life down the mines and boxing in fairgrounds, yet he wouldn't even hear a bad word against the English, never mind those from foreign lands.

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