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Ongoing debate.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 29 Jun 21 at 11:19
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My notification for second AZ jab was received and booked online this morning for later today , 2 months from the first.
Pretty slick operation by my surgery .....
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56605598
Not often you see Corbyn, IDS and the Lib dems all on the same side. I'll think the government will have to tread carefully with this idea of a vaccination passport.
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I enjoy a pint or more with friends several times a week. In normal times. Blessed with two nice beer gardens within a short stroll. Plus a few other pubs without beer gardens.
I’ve been holding weekly soirées with friends in my garage these past few months, and this week friends have been meeting in gardens late afternoon, early evening for beer & banter.
When you have access to such facilities...sunny patio, garden, it’s really enjoyable to sit with half a dozen friends for a few hours and have a chinwag. It’s good for the soul and much cheaper than going to the pub beer garden.
I’ll be getting out my handpump and buying in a barrel next week, set it up in my ( still empty) garage and having friends round most days...I’ll even do take away beer with an honesty box as previously, leaving the side garage door open from midday for friends to drop in, full a few pints, and take away decent draught beer at cost.
A few friends have now had two jabs, others are imminent.
Happy days are here again.
Last edited by: legacylad on Fri 2 Apr 21 at 08:59
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I won't be happy until travel restrictions are lifted. I need at least four weeks of sun and 30°C every year to recharge the batteries.
Still, it's good that we can have group sex in the garden with any number of households now or did I mis-hear that bit?
Last edited by: Kevin on Fri 2 Apr 21 at 10:41
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>>I need at least four weeks of sun and 30°C every year to recharge the batteries
Same here, even though I take high amounts of vitamin D3.
>> it's good that we can have group sex in the garden with any number of households now
Ivor Giggun, garden that is :o)
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@Kevin Only if you stay 6 feet apart.
Last edited by: smokie on Fri 2 Apr 21 at 11:44
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Good point there LL I wonder how these restrictions will hit the pub trade ? Will people be used to staying at home and drinking, the mini pub near us isn't opening until all restrictions are off they can't make any money at 50% occupency.
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Well I had my first jab today. The second is booked in for 4 week's time. It's the Pfizer and I don't feel any different. Yet.
Big mistake only wearing a t-shirt and not bringing a coat in a sleety snowfall. Never occurred to me that there would be a queue at all (1.5 hours in all) and they only let us queue outside (where it's safer). Good job I'm a Northerner.
Wifey got the jab for me. She had heard that before they had to discard unused vials there was a first call, first served basis. Leftovers. So I'm chuffed to bits, I've no idea when I'd have had it otherwise. She had hers a month ago, she works for governmental atom/nuclear/radiation/medicine-type stuff.
Isn't it strange that you're really looking forward to having an injection and something to tell all your friends about. But, you know what the weirdest thing of all today? Get dressed, we're going, she said. After much searching, I found my jeans, pulled them on, leather belt still attached there and guess wot. They're the same unwashed jeans I was last wearing on Boxing Day. I've been wearing lounge pants for three and a half months.
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>> ....I've been wearing lounge pants for three and a
>> half months.
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...I bet they took some peeling off......
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>> >> ....I've been wearing lounge pants for three and a
>> >> half months.
Jezuz, mind bleach - quickly.
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"Lounge pants?" asked Mr Justice Cocklecarrot.
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Ventured out to a local hotel yesterday where I had a drink in the lounge. Service was excellent with loads of staff looking after my every need.
Well OK it was a blood donation session and the drink was a litre of orange juice but it seemed like a day out to me.
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Extraordinary and sad in equal measure how the most trivial of activities, usually of no consequence at all, take on huge importance.
Today I took some rubbish to the tip and bought a newspaper from a shop!!!
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>> "Lounge pants?" asked Mr Justice Cocklecarrot.
>>
>>
"A form of trouser worn by those of dubious character, M'Lud"
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>>Well I had my first jab today. The second is booked in for 4 week's time.
>>
I have just had a call re SWMBOs 2nd jab.
I said I have yet to be called so will wait. That prompted a database search and we are now both booked for a Sunday evening trip. Well done the team.
It is 9 weeks since our first jab. Overall it means that before the end of the month I will be let out on my own as limited Day Care is restarting.
I am not gong to the pub but it will be wonderful to have a little freedom after over a year in self imposed lockdown with only one flue jab visit by the local nurse. The family have been but only in the garden.
Mask at the ready, I now need retraining for the strange new world out there.
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Enjoy henry. Very fortunate that I wasn’t in your position.
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Thanks ll
It was my choice and it does not appear to have affected SWMBO.
I have missed buying greeting cards for birthdays etc plus unplanned food buys in supermarkets.
Quite a few more Ebay buys and even a truckle of Cheddar straight from the dairy farm.
Whatsapp, Zoom and similarvehicles for talks /presentations chats plus live Youtube have all helped.
Quite a few organisations, banned from live meetings have adapted to online events.
Lots of gardening been done but DIY tools etc tidy up still to be tackled.
I do feel lucky that everything has worked out suprisingly well.
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Typical Fidiot Chilenos.
The news this morning showed a Government presentation insisting that Sinovac is the best vaccine on the planet and that they were heroes for buying it and not one of the First World vaccines with side effects and lower effectivity.
They then went on to discuss that given the lack of impact on the figures they will probably go to a third jab.
FFS, clowns. You couldn't make it up.
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I heard a report today that the Sinovac vaccine is around 50% effectiveness, is that being reported in Chile?
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>> I heard a report today that the Sinovac vaccine is around 50% effectiveness, is that
>> being reported in Chile?
Been reading Fox News?
Frankly I haven't got a clue. I do suspect that the effectivity is lower but there is so much conflicting news and so little official word in Chile that f.nose.
1) Indonesia reported 65.3% in Nov/Dec
2) Turkey reported 91.25 in Dec
3) Brazil reported 78% in Dec
4) UAE reported 86% in Jan
5) Brazil reported 50.3% in Jan
6) Turkey reported 83% in Mar
7) Chile reported 50.6% in Mar
It would also appear that South China Morning Post is releasing stuff the UdC hasn't.
The South China Morning Post seems to be the source of a lot of bad news about China. It used to be independent, then was Murdoch, then Alibaba etc. Used to be Hong Kong oriented, now seems to be politicised by the Chinese.
www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3128886/chile-covid-19-vaccination-drive-adds-sinovac-efficacy-data
"But the study by the University of Chile also found that one dose of the Sinovac jab was only 3 per cent effective against infection, underscoring the need to get fully vaccinated. Efficacy rises to 27.7 per cent within two weeks after the second jab, reaching 56.5 per cent a fortnight later, according to the university."
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sun 11 Apr 21 at 19:40
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19th MArch
"Clinical trials in Chile show China's Sinovac vaccine safe, effective "
www.xinhuanet.com/english/2021-03/19/c_139821794.htm
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No I heard it on a local radio station.
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It seems to be a global copy from either Fox or the Washington Post, both of whom carried it at the same time..
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They probably did pick it up from them, I just wondered if it had been reported widely in Chile and if so what the reaction was.
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No, not reported widely and thus no reaction. I would expect it to appear on tomorrow's breakfast TV which is when we'll get a reaction.
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Anyone signed up for the mixed vaccine trial?
www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/research/coronavirus-vaccine-research/
I was giving serious thought to doing my bit and putting my name forward, but Mrs O'Reliant has put a very firm block on it. She's probably had a look at my life insurance policy, which although sufficient is not nearly enough for a life of luxury.
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Much as I am pro-vaccine I am reluctant to be more of a guinea pig than I already am.
This whole business of side effects arising from the vaccines does actually give some strength to the argument of those younger ones who didn't want to be vaccinated for sound reasons, as opposed to just wanting to be contrary..
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1 in 600,000 people are at risk from blood clots arising from the AV vaccine. I'd rather take my chances with that than catch Covid.
The fact is that All medicines can have nasty side effects in a minority of cases, even the humble Asiprin.
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If everybody understood probability, very few would buy lottery tickets and nobody except money launderers would play fixed odds betting terminals.
On average the chance of dying from a AZ-induced blood clot seems likely to be about the same as the annual risk of dying from gunshot, although I suspect one can improve this risk a lot by not committing suicide. But how many people do you know who shot themselves?
The annual chance of dying from a blood clot of all types is on a scale of 1000 times greater than one caused by AZ.
The risk of death from all causes at 20 is worse than 1 in 5,000, at least 100 x worse than AZ, and it gets more likely from then on.
If I were especially prone to blood clots I might be cautious.
Vaccination could well be a government plan to reduce the population, it meets the incompetence criterion. Is Dido in charge of it?
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>>how many people do you know who shot themselves?
Fewer than I used to :>)
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>> Much as I am pro-vaccine I am reluctant to be more of a guinea pig
>> than I already am.
>>
>>
>> This whole business of side effects arising from the vaccines does actually give some strength
>> to the argument of those younger ones who didn't want to be vaccinated for sound
>> reasons, as opposed to just wanting to be contrary..
The side effects are at the statistical levels of "dont actually exist"
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>> The side effects are at the statistical levels of "don't actually exist"
That's how I look at it - even if they quantifiably do exist, as part of a practical decision-making process they might as well not.
Similarly, as part of a plan for retirement, the possibility of winning the lottery jackpot can be ignored.
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The handful of people who won the lottery during the lockdown were probably just buying a ticket and doing a couple of errands while they were out getting the jab.
If they hadn't taken their jab, they wouldn't have won.
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" .. Anyone signed up for the mixed vaccine trial? .. "
Yes - my brother, he also signed up for the original AZ trial.
He has tempted me to join him, but ..
" .. Much as I am pro-vaccine I am reluctant to be more of a guinea pig than I already am. .."
Me too, so i will wait a couple more weeks to get my second Pfizer stab.
If i had been given a choice i would probably have opted for AZ, but there was no option.
Mixed vaccines is an interesting concept though, and whether we like it or not, we are all guinea pigs to an extent, whatever route we choose.
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Boris said the other day that lockdown was what brought the stats down, not the vaccine. Seems there might be something in that.
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I think the effectiveness of the vaccine will have an impact as well, that and the P1 strain seems to be Chile much more than the UK.
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Boris is desperately trying to retain elements of lockdown for as long as possible. Even though deaths and hospitalisations are hugely down amongst the most vulnerable there is still some risk were covid to spread very rapidly amongst those below 50.
But the figures support the proposition that the vaccine is a major contributor to the reduction in covid infections. It is not just lockdown!
Additionally the government is very quiet on the extent to which the vaccine reduces transmission, preferring to put out the message that those vaccinated may still pass on the infection. I would have expected that it would be very clear whether those vaccinated were still becoming infected - if they are not infected they cannot transmit the virus.
I am also of the opinion that the "roadmap" was put together as much by behavioural psychologists as scientists based upon data analysis. The bullshxx about data not dates is just rhetoric - there no explicit data to judge whether we are ahead or behind expectations.
The gap between each major relaxation means that it always seems preferable to "wait a few weeks" rather tthan very directly challenge the roadmap.
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>> But the figures support the proposition that the vaccine is a major contributor to the
>> reduction in covid infections. It is not just lockdown!
Can we yet say that with any certainty?
Surely it's only when lockdown is lifted and people start mixing again that we can see the effect of vaccination. I would expect the number of infections to rise but vaccination of the vulnerable should mean there are far fewer hospital admissions going on to ICU and death.
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When measuring a rise in cases, particularly if making comparisons to previous periods, government needs to ensure that (i) testing is accurate and (ii) that we don't end up comparing apples with bananas becuase of the scale of testing:
www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/15/rapid-covid-testing-in-england-may-be-scaled-back-over-false-positives
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Surely it's only when lockdown is lifted and people start mixing again that we can
>> see the effect of vaccination. I would expect the number of infections to rise but
>> vaccination of the vulnerable should mean there are far fewer hospital admissions going on to
>> ICU and death.
>>
I'd say we were there now. There's lots of people out and about, schools were supposed to bring up a noticeable/significant increase in cases but they haven't. I don't think anyone thinks that there aren't all manner of unofficial 'support bubbles'.
I don't think anyone believes that a mass vaccination hasn't had a big impact.
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Figures in another week or so and onwards will dictate whether or not unlocking in the manner it has happened has worked.
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Even comparing the ICU and death rates also needs care because methods of treatment have changed (hopefully for the better) over time.
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My sister and her husband live in India and queued for 5 hours for their jabs yesterday. This is her explanation of why:
"No appointments, first come first served. From day to day hospitals do not know how many vaccine doses they will be given from the central supply and people know that so we have to try to arrive early at the hospital to get our “number”. This morning, as also when we had our first dose, we had to wait patiently in the outdoor space of the hospital, socially distanced as much as possible. We arrived at 7am and already around thirty people were there, some having turned up at 6am. It was as comfortable as it could be, bearing in mind the limitations municipal hospitals have. I took a flask of tea and biscuits. Hospital staff arrived at 9am and vaccinations began at 10am. Only 70 doses were allocated today so a lot of people had to go away disappointed. At times it felt chaotic but it is difficult for hospital staff having to manage the expectations of so many people and having their own limitations. Anyway, by noon we had received our vaccinations and were home by 12.30. Ordered a celebratory pizza for lunch."
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At least they got their vaccinations. Living in a world of chaos is very irritating and frustrating.
On a much less significant matter, that's pretty much how Government offices function here.
An office that opens at 9:00 will have a large queue outside it by 07:00. They will allow the last person through the door at 14:00 and everybody else gets to come back the next day and try again.
One area of the PDI which deals with ID Card renewals has moved across to an appointment system.
I registered and log onto the system last October to apply for an appointment. I was advised in Mid March by email that my appointment will be at the end of June.
I shall go along in June to pick up my international travel certificate from the PDI. Guess what I'll do with it? Get it copied, have the copy notarised, chuck away the original and hand the notarised copy into the same PDI department that issued the certificate as part of my ID card renewal.
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>> At least they got their vaccinations. Living in a world of chaos is very irritating
>> and frustrating.
>>
She wasn't complaining. She'd seen it as an opportunity to record the dawn chorus and to shoot some video for me of murals near the hospital. The explanation above was the result of my question "Why did you have to have to queue for 5 hours?"
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To see the impact of the vaccine one could simply compare the speed of decline in cases, hospitalisations and deaths from the first lockdown in March 2020 to the current lockdown.
The first lockdown was far deeper with almost no activity outside essential services. Simple observation showed roads almost empty, public transport volumes reduced by 80%+ etc.
This lockdown has seen many continuing to work normally. Even reopening schools only stalled the reduction in infections for a couple of weeks until it continued to decline. Note that the new variants are far more virulent and this needs to be factored in to any analysis.
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There is currently a Government presentation occuring around the SInovac vaccine. The study is apparently based on 2m people who have had both jabs.
On Day 14 after the second jab it is purportedly.....
65% - 69% effective at preventing symptomatic Covid-19
83% - 87% effective at preventing hospitalisation
84% - 92% effective at preventing the need for ICU
73% - 86% effective at preventing death.
I'm not really sure about how those statistics work together. Intuitively I would have expected the statistical effectiveness of the vaccine to have increased with the severity and quantity of each level.
Perhaps the answer is in the overlap.
Anyway, it's all better than 50.6% so I guess it's good news for us.
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It also showed very clearly that our major problem, including the overloaded ICU, is coming from the 25 - 45 age group, and they have not been vaccinated yet.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Fri 16 Apr 21 at 15:44
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Goodness knows I have very little medical knowledge, but wasn't something like this originally tried with AIDS and it failed because of reservoirs in various body organs?
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>> Goodness knows I have very little medical knowledge, but wasn't something like this originally tried
>> with AIDS and it failed because of reservoirs in various body organs?
>>
Given that the virus is submicroscopic, and that its speciality is reproducing itself by the billion at great speed, this has to be a very long shot indeed.
May the hope is to remove a large proportion of the virus while inhibiting its reproduction rate to give the antibodies a fighting chance in serious cases.
More or Less got a couple of people to calculate the total volume of Sars-Cov-2 in the whole world - I think the answer was somewhere between a shot glass full and about half a pint.
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This is more a way of removing the effect of CV from the blood, not the virus itself. Its clear its being used on patients with severe multi organ failure, caused by their white blood cells reaction to the virus, and being replaced with blood that can cope and fight the virus normally. Its only of need to a very small proportion of patients. The title is a little misleading I think.
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Thanks for the illumination, that makes more sense.
As I was just saying to herself, most of the little news stories are rubbish. If you're interested in it, there's never enough detail. If you aren't, it's a waste of newsprint anyway.
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A little more information:
"In a March 26th release from Exthera, its president and CEO Robert Ward NAE said, “We are very pleased to confirm the feasibility of Seraph 100 treatment of COVID-19. Since Seraph 100 treatments have also consistently produced improved oxygenation/lung function, we believe that this feature together with virus reduction may be a useful combination for treating COVID-19, while simultaneously treating the dangerous secondary infections that can occur in COVID-19 patients.”
Here’s how Seraph works. As a patient's blood flows through the Seraph filter, it passes over tiny beads with receptors that mimic the receptors on human cells that pathogens target when they invade the body.
Harmful substances are quickly captured and adsorbed onto the surface of the beads and are thereby removed from the bloodstream. Seraph does not add anything to the blood, which is returned to the patient with blood cells and proteins intact. Seraph targets the pathogens that cause the infection, while it also binds and removes harmful substances generated by the pathogen and by the body’s response to the infection.
Seraph won Emergency Use Authorization from FDA for the treatment of COVID-19 in April, according to the company. "
www.mddionline.com/covid-19/dod-funds-clinical-trial-seraph-blood-filter-treat-covid-19
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SInovac works. Not as well as others and the performance seems to be variable, but it works.
Astra Zeneca works better.
I have had both jabs of Sinovac.
What are the implications, or has anybody seen any comment on, my simply turning up at an AZ centre and getting a second (additional) go round?
Last edited by: No FM2R on Wed 21 Apr 21 at 22:46
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I've seen that mixing two types 1st and 2nd has been used where people have a bad reaction to the first, and structured trials are now starting for the mixed approach (a mate has just signed up as a volunteer for that). But I haven't seen any reporting on 3rd jabs, mixed or not.
In the UK they check you against your NHS number/record at every step so you'd not be offered the option (I know you are not UK)
I had 2nd jab yesterday AZ at the Royal Marsden. In and out in about 20 minutes. queues at every point but moving fairly fast. No reaction at all this time (so far anyway).
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2nd AZ Jab this morning, so I guess its now "that'l do" till they come up with some annual mutation update every November. We'll have to learn to live with it now.
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Miami school bars vaccinated teachers from seeing students
".......repeated a false claim of vaccinated individuals affecting unvaccinated people, saying three women in the school's community had their menstrual cycles "impacted after having spent time with a vaccinated person"
A school ffs, you really couldn't make it up.
www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56905752
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I bet she voted for Trump.
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I got my second AZ jab yesterday.
I've felt like crap all day today -:(
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Wifey had her 2nd Tizer jab on Fursday - in Tavistock, 15 smiles away. No side effects whatsoheather.
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Wife had her second jab of az, fine for the first 12 hours then absolutely wiped out for the next 24 hours.
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SWMBO is now fully vaccinated with AZ. The first one made her really ill - high temperature etc - for the evening after, night and following day. The second produced no side-effects apart from a slightly sore arm.
Last edited by: James Loveless on Sat 15 May 21 at 09:07
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Dog, I thought you and Wifey had moved from that god-forsaken part of the world.
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Had my second last week so I'm well happy.
My daughter (18) went with me and she made a bit of a fuss until they made her an appointment for her first jab in a couple of weeks. My niece has done the same as have a few of her friends, literally getting a foot in the door and pestering. I don't blame them. School's out, summer is coming and they want to travel.
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James, we moved from St Awful to Launceston 9 months ago (doesn't time fly!)
We're one mile from the Devon border so I registered with a practice there rather than the one in Lanson.
There must be something (shirley) about this god-forsaken part of the world, cos we've been here for 23 years.
:o}
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You still looking at moving to the english/welsh boarder ?
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>>You still looking at moving to the english/welsh boarder ?
I had my beady eyes on a nice cottage on the Herefordshire/Wales border, but it came under offer within days of coming on the market.
Most properties in Cornwall sell even quicker than that :)
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I thought, God, you'd bought a place in the Midlands...
I probably missed something.
Last edited by: James Loveless on Sat 15 May 21 at 12:18
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>>I thought, God, you'd bought a place in the Midlands...
Nay lad, a couple from the Midlands (yam yams) bought our olde quintessential Cornish country cottage.
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We are being told there are new mobility rules coming in. I have no idea what that means, but given this place it's probably going to be draconian.
At the same time we are being issued these...... (for your interest, this is mine but with blank bits)
imgur.com/a/CRk7f2w
Since we are seeing our case rates double over the last week, then there's clearly something coming down the line.
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We now have a two tier society, and about effin time.
If you have a vaccination certificate they have just announced that from Thursday lockdown restrictions no longer apply to you. That includes going to other comunas, (boroughs) or regions (Counties) and going out at the weekends.
Curfew does still apply though.
If you do not have your certificate then you may not travel to any other comuna or region and you may not go out at weekends, also you will need to apply for permissions to go into things like supermarkets and the like.
Predictably every quarantine centre now has truly massive queues as refusniks change their mind, people who said they were prevented for medical reasons realise that they're not and the lazy have reaiised that they'll be missing out.
And one thing Chileans hate is the thought of missing out.
There will be some injustices, I expect, though not as much as the sensationalist groups would have us believe. There will be some who cannot have a vaccine but much as society should care, it cannot restrict or endanger populations for tiny minorities.
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>> There will be some who cannot have a vaccine but much
>> as society should care, it cannot restrict or endanger populations for tiny minorities.
Say that about pregnant women while your wife's listening.
Or in a few years time when your daughters are listening.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Mon 24 May 21 at 20:27
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I would have no problems saying that now or then. And in fact they know that's how I feel.
It doesn't change because it's my family. It is a nonsense to risk everybody.
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Without any medical knowledge of potential complications, either to mother or unborn child, should you contract Covid, I wouldn’t have thought it the best idea to become pregnant until an effective vaccine had been widely administered to the population at large, UNLESS you are happy to forsake a lot of freedoms in ensuring one’s own health.
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Cards on table, I've got skin in this game as my daughter is expecting her first, our first grandchild, in the Autumn.
Getting pregnant isn't some sort of certainty where you just shag on the right day; I've joked with multiple friends down the years about calendars, thermometers and wearing it down to a stump.
Treating people who wilfully refuse vaccine as pariahs is one thing. Treating the small minority who have good medical reasons to be chary of vaccine is another; what real risk do they present?
FWIW Miss B got her second AZ dose after she knew she was pregnant, I think the rules changed.
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>>Cards on table, I've got skin in this game as my daughter is expecting her first, our first grandchild, in the Autumn.
Huge congratulations. Your first grandchild, fantastic. I bet it'll be fun, I hope it all goes well and easily for your daughter.
>>Treating people who wilfully refuse vaccine as pariahs is one thing. Treating the small minority who have good medical reasons to be chary of vaccine is another; what real risk do they present?
I think you might be misunderstanding me.
Those who wilfully refuse the vaccine are pariahs and can die in the gutter for all I care.
Those who have a medical reason not to have the vaccine have my sympathy and should not be treated as pariahs, but I do not support keeping the rest of the population in because of that, nor do I agree with allowing the worthless to escape a vaccine because of it.
I do regret that they will be [perhaps significantly] inconvenienced while waiting for the Government to work out how to deal with it it, be that allowing doctors certificates (this si a corrupt society) or whatever.
THose who are chary because their scared of needles can suck it up. I DGAS.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Mon 24 May 21 at 21:18
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>> Huge congratulations. Your first grandchild, fantastic. I bet it'll be fun, I hope it all
>> goes well and easily for your daughter.
Thank you
>>I think you might be misunderstanding me.
>>
>> Those who wilfully refuse the vaccine are pariahs and can die in the gutter for
>> all I care.
>>
>> Those who have a medical reason not to have the vaccine have my sympathy and
>> should not be treated as pariahs,
Not that different perhaps.
If we need to worry about those who are unvaccinated and resort to vaccine 'passports' then those unable to be vaccinated should have a passport; vaccinated people can pass it on too.
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>>Those unable to be vaccinated should have a passport;
Absolutely. And I hope they get in with setting it up quickly. Buti don't agree with either letting it go or making everybody else wait.
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>>Cards on table, I've got skin in this game as my daughter is expecting her first, our first grandchild, in the Autumn.
Bromp, there was an opinion piece in the Times about Vaccine & pregnant women by Professor Sylvia Richardson.
Dunno if it was free or not but if you didn't/can't see it and would like to, drop me an email and I'll send you the text.
M.
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>> Bromp, there was an opinion piece in the Times about Vaccine & pregnant women by
>> Professor Sylvia Richardson.
Thanks for that Mark. I'll have a look/see.
Jess isn't medically qualified but she works with a lot of Docs etc in the NHS and her FiL is a recently retired GP/GP trainer so I guess she had good 'gen' beforehand.
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Congrats Bromp!
Get ready for babysitting duties!
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>Say that about pregnant women while your wife's listening.
>Or in a few years time when your daughters are listening.
I just worked it out, there's my Father and I and then 1x Mother, 1x Sister, 3x Sister in laws and their 2 daughters and 1 man, 2x daughters, 3x nieces and their 5 daughters - 3 men, 17 women
Women no longer hold any fear for me, it's been beaten out of me over the years.
Actually one of the cats is male but he's been done so he tends to keep quiet and avoid women anyway.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Mon 24 May 21 at 20:55
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I'm spitting bullets, living in an area where we're recommended not to travel in or out of. It's our golden wedding anniversary this weekend and, because of the virus, we'd arranged a few low key events. A picnic with daughter's family, tea with SWMBO's sisters and coffee with a friend.
The sections of our community that are spreading the virus are those that this restriction is aimed at. They're the ones that are most likely to ignore it.
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Are the special restrictions mandatory? The words "try to" appear in this report
www.itv.com/news/anglia/2021-05-25/tougher-covid-restrictions-introduced-in-bedford-area-to-curb-virus-spread
If I thought we were safe and not endangering anyone else I'd be inclined to leave existing arrangements. I don't like wanton rule breaking and I would follow the new restrictions in making further plans but there must come a point at which people become responsible for protecting themselves.
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>> Are the special restrictions mandatory?
They're not mandatory and seem to have been promulgated without announcement and over several days:
www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/24/ministers-urged-to-clarify-covid-advice-against-travel-in-and-out-of-bolton
Like you I'd be inclined to leave arrangements in place. If, for example, they added Northampton to the list before I leave for a fortnight in Scotland on Friday then I'd be inclined to disregard the 'advice'. We're asked to take lateral flow tests before travelling from the mainland to the Hebrides anyway.
Also, if the advice were extended to the new unitary council of West Northants I'd be curious as to whether, under the pre April local government structure, it would have applied only to the urban area of the former Borough of Northampton rather than the rural bit where I live.
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SWMBO's health and treatment have left her immuno compromised, she hasn't been out of the house for weeks other than hospital appointments. We're unable to find out what, if any, protection the two vaccinations she's had give her.
It's reported that in the town centre on Saturday, volunteers were handing out leaflets encouraging folk to get vaccinated. Cerain sections of the community were refusing the leaflets and openly laughing at the volunteers efforts.
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According to Therese Coffey on the radio this morning the rationale is as follows:
The prime minister set out that we need to take extra caution in certain areas regarding the Indian variant. It is good practice to formally put that guidance on the record affecting those communities.
We have been working in close contact, so I’m surprised to hear that people think this has come out of the blue – it hasn’t.
It is about formalising on the record the guidance which we believe people can and should follow in order to make sure we tackle and don’t have more spread of the Indian variant.
The PM's speech last week advised people in Bolton which, along with Blackburn, at least got specific mention to be cautious. The 'Lockdown Lite' advised on the website goes some way beyond that and extends to places like Leicester that the PM never mentioned.
Apparently no discussion with/notice to Local Government or Local Health Chiefs in the areas concerned. Certainly no public announcement.
It's hit the media today because somebody noticed the actual words on .gov.
The vaccines minister has now made a statement to the house but it appears to contradict 'Lockdown Lite' and allow travel to visit friends etc so long as you don't go inside.
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>> Cerain sections of the community were refusing the leaflets and openly
>> laughing at the volunteers efforts.
Which sections in particular?
Large scale laughter or 'yoofs' taking the mick?
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People complain if they are told what to do backed up by the law. We are grown up they claim.
They are then guided or advised to apply some common sense and avoid certain activities in some places where risks are higher than average. Response - what are the rules, why can't the government be explicit.
Use some common sense. You can see the problem. You know what you are planning to do. Life is inherently risky. If you don't like the risk don't go.
Were the advice extended to the area in which I live or wanted to travel to:
- I would avoid anywhere crowded,
- if I went indoors I would want to judge it "covid safe"
- otherwise I would (previously shielding but vaccinated) ignore the guidance.
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>>Which sections in particular?
Look at the communities that are refusing the vaccine.
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>> Look at the communities that are refusing the vaccine.
Not here anymore, the vaccination centres here all have huge queues outside them now people've been told they get left out if they don't have a vax certificate.
Seems being a gobby refusnik is not so attractive once there's actually a cost or downside.
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I heard the other day that we now have some centres which offer a vaccine "no questions asked" to try to tackle to problem which we discussed here months ago, of people who don't want to be on the radar.
I'm pleased they've done that, hopefully the people will trust the centres enough to use them.
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www.ft.com/content/f76eb802-ec05-4461-9956-b250115d0577
"Scientists in Germany claim to have cracked the cause of the rare blood clots linked to the Oxford/AstraZeneca and Johnson & Johnson coronavirus vaccines and believe the jabs could be tweaked to stop the reaction happening altogether."
That'd be good!
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I wonder how long a new vaccine would take to get through - development cycle, supply chain, production time, existing stocks, etc. etc.
I don't expect it's quick.
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I don't have exact dates to hand but I'm currently invested in a therapeutic which is in the Activ2 US fast track program, has been since early this year and isn't due to report until well into H2.
That is a repurposed inhaled drug based on interferon and is already known to be safe for humans but it is still having to go through the safety testing (which is Phase II, alongside efficacy). The fast track is an enabler, giving money, supporting recruitment of candidates and resources to test locations. I believe they also assist with setting up volume manufacturing and no doubt a whole load of other stuff.
I don't think 5 years or more is unusual for a run-of-the-mill drug. I'm sure I read that the one I mentioned has been being developed for 15 years.
This is one reason why the major pharmas wouldn't really be too keen on the idea which floated recently about making the drugs patent free. They have invested a lot in them and don't want cheap knock-offs to come out as soon as they are on the market.
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57283837
The first single shot vaccine approved. Available later this year.
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Chile is still maintaining it's step by step plan
Paso 1 - full quarantine
Paso 2 - Allowed out during the week, bars & restaurants can serve outside
Paso 3 - Allowed inside business and places
Some interesting things;
Sinovac is deemed to offer protection two weeks after second jab.
84% of people in hospital have only had 1 jab
63% of people in hospital have had no jab
Hospitalisations are escalating.
First jab this week in people down to 23, but it will then be +5 weeks for second jab and +_ 2 weeks more for protection. People with protection are, I think, >47. Assuming that they took up the vaccine. Take up figures are not readily available.
People with a vaccination certificate (2 jabs + 2 weeks).....
...can go out in or to any comuna (borough/parish) Paso 1 or higher during the week
...can go out in or to any comuna Paso 2 or higher at the weekend
...can travel to any region (county) that is Paso 2 or higher all 7 days but you must get the sanitary cordon pass.
Military curfew 22:00 - 05:00
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I note it is being reported that the EU have substantially lost their first skirmish in the Belgian Courts (the law under which the contract is established) with Astrazeneca over delivery, or lack thereof.
Not entirely unexpected (at least by me) but I suppose the EU might return for a second bite (given that the motive for action in the first place was rather suspect)
Edited to add:
I note Ms vd Leyen has put a rather different political spin on it. It might be best to await the full facts, but having a demand for 300M doses downgraded to 50M doesn't look like a win to me.
Last edited by: tyrednemotional on Fri 18 Jun 21 at 14:14
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It is confusing. [and this post is no clearer]
The EU took AZ to court because they had promised 300m doses by the end of June +100m option to which AZ said they would only deliver max 100m by end June, and in fact will also miss that target.
They have only delivered 70m to date and will deliver 80m by the end of June
As I understand the EU asked the court for 120m doses by the end of June and a failure penalty of 10EUR per dose per day
The court ordered AZ to deliver [a further?] 80m by the end of September and a failure penalty of 10EUR per dose (NOT per day).
The court also said that the EU had no right of priority over any other party or contract.
The added confusion seems to be that EU are seperating Q1 delivery (30m) from Q2 delivery (90m) in some, but not all, statements whereas the Court and AZ appear not to be.
The EU has ordered AZ to deliver 15 million doses by July 26, another 20 million by Aug. 23 and another 15 million by Sept. 27, for a total of 50 million doses.
In summary, AZ were sued for not delivering 300m and only planning 80m by end June [70m to date], and the court has ordered them to deliver 120m by end September.
Difficult to see a win for the EU in that judgement, though of course it is now set down in the judgement and should AZ fail to meet this target (most unlikely) the story would be quite different.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Fri 18 Jun 21 at 15:17
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At the time of posting this link, the judgement has not been updated.
tinyurl.com/yeeuwut7 (Link to Court of Justice of the EU)
Last edited by: No FM2R on Fri 18 Jun 21 at 15:32
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>> At the time of posting this link, the judgement has not been updated.
>>
That's a different, earlier case, with AZ vs the EU, not vice-versa ;-)
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Oh, sorry. I'll try to find the right one.
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Apparently it was in the Belgian Court of First Instance. I can't quickly see anything, I'll look more carefully later unless someone beats me to it.
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>> Oh, sorry. I'll try to find the right one.
>>
...remember, it was a judgement of the Belgian Court (the contract being let under Belgian law) not the EU court. ;-)
Edit:
Post crossed
Last edited by: tyrednemotional on Fri 18 Jun 21 at 15:43
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..it rather looks to me that the court found that AZ has/had used reasonable endeavours to date to meet its "commitments", albeit having failed (otherwise the court would surely have considered penalties for the performance to date), but also judged that those endeavours going forward (presumably from a now more stable base) should allow it to meet the court-prescribed deliveries (which are still less than the EU were seeking).
Whilst there is lack of absolute clarity about other matters (such as primacy of supply, use to date of the UK-manufactured base, etc) what I can glean indicates that the balance of any judgement on these has largely favoured AZ.
The EU have a second case "on the stocks" and a spokesman has said this will come under further consideration. If the assessment above is true, then quite a bit of wind will have been taken from its sails.
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The EU only took the action to demonstrate they could be tough and prove their early failure to vaccinate was not their fault for procurement incompetence.
Vaccinations are now being rolled out at reasonable pace in the EU. If they have any sense they will let the issue quietly disappear from the headlines.
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My wife and me had the jabs twice.I went along with it to protect her she is disabled and has a few serious problems.
Learning more and more about these vaccines which is a experiment I shudder seeing young people standing in a que for this vaccine.Also they are thinking of injecting kids with this stuff.
Iam over 70 had a decent life but and I mean that i don't want the younger generation to protect me by potentially harming themselves.
The spike protein injected into your system is toxic.This comes from people far more educated than me and have worked in this field for years.There are many side affects and after the second jab I was poorly for a week.My wife is still having trouble also.
Can we stop waffling about the E.U and what not.Mr Johnson and the leaders in Europe are following the same program.How to drag this out and take all our freedoms away.The vaccine passports next without it you won't be able to go anywhere abroad.The reason vaccines are slow in Europe is that people are asking the questions what harm does this to me.I just see so many people totally in a trance they will do anything.The Stockholm syndrome.
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>>This comes from people far more educated than me
I think my cat falls into that category.
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Zippy's post seems to have disappeared.
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>> Zippy's post seems to have disappeared.
>>
Oh the irony. Smurf, Fluffy, Movi-whatever, spews nonsense and I'm the one getting censored!
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>> The spike protein injected into your system is toxic.This comes from people far more educated
>> than me and have worked in this field for years.
Who are these people and please could you link to a proper academic precis of their work?
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You'll get a YouTube video to watch, sure as fate.
Didn't you know that's how he does all his "research"?
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>> You'll get a YouTube video to watch, sure as fate.
>>
>> Didn't you know that's how he does all his "research"?
Wasn't expecting The Lancet :-)
I waste far too much time on the old HJ site debating with someone who seems immersed in (mostly US) conspiracy sites.
I shouldn't and there's an argument I'm not doing him any good by responding but OTOH it's like shooting fish in a barrel.
edited to remove person's name
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 23 Jun 21 at 13:00
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>> My wife and me had the jabs twice.I went along with it to protect her
>> she is disabled and has a few serious problems........
>>
....well, I think most of us can identify at least one of those......
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We can all make our own judgements. If some don't want a vaccine having been offered same - simply accept the consequences.
Personally I had a mild reaction to both jabs. On the basis that the vaccine is effective in preventing future infection and the risk of hospitalisation or death, it is a no brainer.
We should quickly dismantle restrictions/lockdown ASAP. There is no evidence that hospitalisations or deaths are increasing materially as most cases are amongst the young and problems mainly (not wholly) amongst those who have declined the vaccine.
Covid in May accounted for ~1% of deaths - it has become a relatively trivial issue compared to heart attacks, strokes, cancer, etc etc.
Restricting overseas travel other than to/from red countries is equally pointless. If a mutation can defeat the vaccine it will still get into the UK and spread. If the vaccine is effective - why worry.
For those still nervous about a return to normal - simply choose your own level of risk which may vary from "don't go out" to "avoid crowds indoors". We should not deny the rest of society normal behaviour because of a nervous few.
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>..simply accept the consequences.
World Journal of Men's Health reckons it shouldn't be hard for some.
wjmh.org/DOIx.php?id=10.5534/wjmh.210055
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>> Covid in May accounted for ~1% of deaths - it has become a relatively trivial
>> issue compared to heart attacks, strokes, cancer, etc etc.
In a lockdown, yes. And even then, cases are rising under current measures.
A chap once told me he was an elephant catcher in Birmingham. I said "There aren't any elephants roaming the streets there, are there?"
"Then I'm doing a good job" said he.
I can think of a few reasons to be cautious about a full unlock or backing off on the vaccination campaign. Increased load on health services which have a massive backlog of elective work is one. More cases also means more mutations, and a higher likelihood of one that defeats vaccines, is more infectious, or more deadly.
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Dear Mods,
"The spike protein injected into your system is toxic"
This is vaccine misinformation which on most sites would be immediately deleted and the user warned and/or muted and/or banned.
Will you let it stand?
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I think Smurf is a bit of a d*******, but we are on dangerous ground if we start banning views we disagree with. Let them carry on and trust that most people are sensible enough to recognise nonsense when they see it.
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>> trust that most people are sensible enough
I have spotted the flaw in that plan.
But perhaps you're right, though the fact that I disagree with his view is neither here nor there. In fact, if it was just a view then I would entirely agree with you.
The thing that worries me is that though he is clearly a plank, Smuff got his ridiculous ideas from somewhere, not sure that letting disinformation stand is a smart idea. You never know when the next plank will wander along and see some t*** touting stupid views which supposedly come from quality medical sources and decide to propagate it even further.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Mon 21 Jun 21 at 20:00
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>> I think Smurf is a bit of a d*******, but we are on dangerous ground
>> if we start banning views we disagree with. Let them carry on and trust that
>> most people are sensible enough to recognise nonsense when they see it.
>>
...I think Smurf is more than a bit of a wind-up merchant....
I'm generally in favour of freedom of speech (albeit tempered with a little everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but not their own "facts" (which is where some of his posting crosses the line).
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>>...I think Smurf is more than a bit of a wind-up merchant....
I actually don't. I think he really is that ridiculous and does hold the views that he spews.
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>>freedom of speech
I'm sure that you know, but "freedom of speech" only means that the Government cannot act against you solely for voicing your opinion. However, it is not an absolute right and thus has limitations and conditions. It also does not apply to anything other than Government or State intervention. Additionally, in the UK, it is freedom of expression.
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Mangled and missed the edit.
That should have read:
...I think Smurf is more than a bit of a wind-up merchant....
I'm generally in favour of freedom of speech (albeit tempered with a little responsibility); everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but not their own "facts" (which is where some of his posting crosses the line).
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I still think Smurf is Blue and also Fluffy.
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>> I still think Smurf is Blue and also Fluffy.
And I think all three of them are someone that we know under a different name.
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>>My wife and me had the jabs twice
Does the plank think no-one else should have the jab?
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Please allow me to fix that for you.
"Does the plank think no-one else should have the jab?"
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I visit my local gym several times a week...admittedly rarely on a midweek evening when it’s busier.
Recently bumped into an acquaintance there who I haven’t seen for a while, we must have kept missing each other, but it was good to catch up.
He’s double jabbed, and happy to visit the gym. OTOH he steadfastly refuses to use any public transport, allow anyone in his car even if they wear a mask, or go inside any pub or restaurant, and only food shops in one place 30 minutes before closing time when it’s almost deserted.
Yet he’s happy to visit a small gym 3 times a week where a handful of folks are energetically exercising indoors and not wearing masks.
I just thought that strange.
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Was asked by a woman in her late 20s whether she should get the vaccine as she was concerned about the risk of side effects (never mind she was overweight and a smoker).
My reply was that whatever the side-effects of a vaccine, catching Covid would be worse.
I then said that at some point she almost definitely will catch Covid as it is going nowhere and will be an endemic infection for years to come.
Finally I told her that although none of my patients her age have died from Covid, a fair number have been hospitalised many of whom are still not back to how they were many months ago.
Still not sure if she'll get it - idiots gotta be idiots.
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whatever the side-effects of a vaccine, catching Covid would could be worse.
As you were.
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Lygonos = Doctor
Dog = isn't
:-)
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Funny how often dog shows up just after Smurf/fluffy. And they spout the same s***e.
Friends perhaps?
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>> Was asked by a woman in her late 20s whether she should get the vaccine
>> as she was concerned about the risk of side effects (never mind she was overweight
>> and a smoker).
I wonder how many refusers actually make an effort to think about and compare risks. It's enough for me to 'know', based on reports, that the estimated risk of a nasty outcome from the vaccine seems to be in the 1 to 100,000-1,000,000 range. That's quite a bit less than the average annual risk of being a road fatality (around 1 in 20,000) and massively less than the average risk of death from a surgical procedure (around 1 in 100). The COVID-19 infection fatality rate for an unvaccinated 25-30 year old is probably in the 1 in 1000-10,000 range, itself very low but about 100 times worse than the vaccination risk.
Actually I suspect the problem is more one of trust, or lack of it. They know the risk is reported to be negligible, but they find it easier to believe they are being lied to, particularly about the possibility of unknown long-term risks.
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The pandemic has certainly shown that very few people really understand risk and, as importantly IMO, are intolerant of those with a different risk profile to their own. As seen in the early days when social media were rife with people complaining about the behaviours of others… At one level though it’s entirely rational if you are in your 20s with, what, 60+ years ahead of you, to be more concerned about long term unknown risks than someone in their 60s who could be dead in 10/15 years… ;)
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Agree 100% with Peter S.
We fail to properly compare the risks - the vaccine may give protection for many years into the future (how many?) against the statistical risk of contracting covid in the next year.
If unvaccinated you may be infected at any point in the future at which point you will be more vulnerable. The risk is not simply die vs live, but longer term consequences (long covid?).
Were I 50 years younger I would still want the vaccine - if for no other reason that travel and social activities over the next year or two may be constrained if not vaccinated.
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To be fair, no-one knows if the vaccines might have long term side effects, and that's what I'd be thinking about in weighing up the risks - the unknowns rather than the knowns.
On a slight tangent, and it's already been mentioned in the TV thread, I just re-watched The Social Dilemma, a Netflix documentary, which is about social media hooks people in and, amongst other things, how it can lead to dystopia. Absolutely compelling watch and somewhat scary - it discusses how fake news is propagated and you begin to understand just how it all works - including anti-vax.
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>>To be fair, no-one knows if the vaccines might have long term side effects
To be fair, nobody knows what the long term effects of COVID-19 though they are increasingly coming to believe that they're pretty awful. The odds seem pretty clear.
www.publichealth.org/public-awareness/understanding-vaccines/vaccine-myths-debunked/
>> just re-watched The Social Dilemma
I've watched it a couple of times. I find it depressing how easily manipulated people are and how much ingenuity, intelligence and time companies will put into doing so.
Still, to some extent, forewarned is forearmed.
But we live in a world where people genuinely think that watching youtube videos from knuckle draggers is a form of valid research.
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I wonder how many people who get covid then go on to get long covid? Although I get its probably difficult to work out, with it being new and the symptoms being so varied. Still I wonder what the ball park figure is?
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>> To be fair, no-one knows if the vaccines might have long term side effects, and
>> that's what I'd be thinking about in weighing up the risks - the unknowns rather
>> than the knowns.
That's a very valid concern I think, and the most recent anti-vaccine stuff I have seen uses concerns about future fertility to raise doubts. As a mere possibility, this cannot be refuted.
I recall the government's line on BSE at one point - "There is no evidence that BSE can pass from animals to people". That was enough for me to change my diet, but of course there was no real downside to that. And as it turned out they were wrong.
Here, there is no evidence or reason to think that the vaccine will cause fertility problems or worse, but it might.
But there are two differences between the vaccine decision and the beef boycott one.
The is that the purpose of being vaccinated is to mitigate a risk that is known to exist, that of getting ill or dying from COVID-19.
The second is (as mentioned above) is that there is also a known, rather than putative, possibility of long term after-effects from COVID-19.
My wife and I have been told we almost certainly had COVID-19 between January and early/mid March last year, when confirmed cases were very low. Neither of us was very ill, but we both had highly unusual and exhausting coughs for weeks on end. My wife developed heart rhythm problems which continued for over a year. They were concerning enough to be investigated with a 48 hour ECG, CT and echocardiogram. She had no history of heart problems and no cause has been found. She has been told that it was probably related to the presumed COVID-19 as it is something that has been seen with long COVID. Fortunately it appears to have resolved itself after over a year.
I'm very pro-vaccines generally so it wasn't a difficult decision for me. I'm old enough to remember the fear generated by polio, diphtheria, tetanus, whooping cough, meningitis, and smallpox to name a few diseases that people pay far less attention to now.
My family was actually traced back in the 1960's and received a home visit from the smallpox vaccination hit squad because of an outbreak in Bradford where we used to visit the Royal Infirmary with my brother, who had leukaemia. Perhaps Dido should have looked at how they managed it.
I don't know what can be done about fake news. The people who read this s***e think they are the ones being sceptical and the rest of us are 'sheeple'. Yet they are the ones promoting conspiracies that millions would need to be complicit in, dismissing multiple respected sources and quoting people nobody has heard of - and calling it "citizen news".
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A propos, an acquaintance is having to isolate as his partner has just developed Covid-19 symptoms.
She contracted it over Christmas and soon passed it on to him. The attacks were mild and they did not need hospitalisation. Since recovery they were both double-jabbed. I don't know how long ago her second jab was but her new attack is also relatively mild.
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>>My wife and I have been told we almost certainly had COVID-19 between January and early/mid March last year, when confirmed cases were very low.
I am awaiting a test from Biobank to determine if I had Covid before having my jabs
I have no reason to think I had Covid especially as we isolated before most folks and
had no contacts.
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>> I am awaiting a test from Biobank to determine if I had Covid before having
>> my jabs
>> I have no reason to think I had Covid especially as we isolated before most
>> folks and
>> had no contacts.
We locked ourselves down a week before the official start, but I had been to London twice in January and I think I probably picked it up then.
It was only when I saw my heart consultant in December and described the cough that he said he was sure we'd had COVID. I challenged this as it started in January when there were almost no confirmed cases, but as he pointed out there was very little testing and he thought there had been quite a concentration in London even then.
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He was probably covering his backside after giving you an ACE inhibitor that caused the cough... ;-)
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>> He was probably covering his backside after giving you an ACE inhibitor that caused the
>> cough... ;-)
I hadn't seen him since the previous December.
I get the joke, having had the Ramipril cough on and off for 3 years. Small price to pay for my big improvement (EF from 19% to 55/60%).
It was a bit more heavy duty than that, I had to sit up to sleep. To begin with I thought it was fluid retention returned, and started taking furosemide again but I hadn't put any weight on and it made no difference at all. Meanwhile my wife started an incessant violent barking cough about a week after me, which caused her throat to spasm and interrupt her breathing. We must have driven the neighbours mad with it for about 6 weeks. Then it just went. No other symptoms so I think we just saw it off. We both take vitamin D3 supplement, maybe that helped. I dismissed the possibility of COVID at the time but the chap insisted, said he'd seen it with COVID.
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!The stocks of BioNTech, Pfizer and Moderna, which make the COVID-19 mRNA vaccine, fell amid news the jabs could be linked to rare heart inflammation in young people."
uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/m-rna-vaccine-makers-stocks-plunge-as-possible-link-to-rare-heart-condition-found-093541333.html
Admittedly it really is pretty rare, though so was the connetion to clots in the early days.
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I can quote many names Scientist who are very sceptical about these vaccines.Dr Bhakdi a Professor born in Thailand who practised for more than thirty years in Germany.
He just fininshed a intervieuw with Blue Tiger Studio on You tube.
He also said and more scientist like him that.How can a antibody in the blood this is the vaccine stop a virus which enters from the air.Entering the cells which lines the airways? The fact is it can't.That is why the vaccines against flu don't work.
They are starting to vaccinate children in the U.S.Also children wearing the mask is criminal.In Germany 45 chidren were tested and Co2 was measured after 9 minutes wearing the mask.The concentration of Co2 was 3 times higher than the authorities allowed in the workplace.The highest value measured was 12 times the minimum allowed.The ages of the children 6 up to 17 years.
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What the holy hell are you dribbling on about?
The vaccine prevents over-reaction to the virus after it enters the body, and promotes the immune system eradicating it.
That's how they work.
And as for CO2 levels - exhaled air is over 100 times higher in CO2 than fresh air but is perfectly safe to breathe (it has a little less oxygen though)
It's not carbon monoxide ffs.
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>>He also said and more scientist like him that.How can a antibody in the blood this is the vaccine stop a virus which enters from the air.Entering the cells which lines the airways? The fact is it can't.That is why the vaccines against flu don't work.
I guess this is copy and pasted from some non-English language site? About as relevant as their command of the language.
I'm just waiting for Mark to wake up.
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>>
>> I'm just waiting for Mark to wake up.
>> m.youtube.com/watch?v=68ugkg9RePc
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>> He also said and more scientist like him that.How can a antibody in the blood
>> this is the vaccine stop a virus which enters from the air.Entering the cells which
>> lines the airways? The fact is it can't.That is why the vaccines against flu don't
>> work.
Clearly you were not listening in biology classes.
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My niece is early 30s and has a history of mental illness.
She has gone full anti vax, conspiracy theories , has disowned all her family who all disagree with her and genuinely, and I mean genuinely, believes that every person who has been vaccinated will die within a year.
It is scary to sit on the outside and see how easy it is for people like her to be totally brainwashed. My sister and her husband are heartbroken.
She posts theory after theory on social media that she has been taken in by, will bever answer any question she is asked about her claims, but continues to produce more stuff. Its almost like a factory production line of claims that she is being controlled with.
So scary to see this unravel in front of our own eyes and nothing, absolutely nothing can be done. My sister is watching her own daughter fall deeper and deeper into this "cult" and cannot rescue her or save her, or more importantly, protect her from it.
Heartbreaking.
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I said this the other day elsewhere.
Bobby watch The Social Dilemma on Netflix and see how social media is designed to brainwash.
It won't help your niece but it'll help you understand how it happens.
I think they've brainwashed me into loving that show. :-)
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>> I can quote many names Scientist who are very sceptical about these vaccines.Dr Bhakdi a
>> Professor born in Thailand who practised for more than thirty years in Germany.
And has been decried by all that are capable of more than recycling s***e they heard from their mates.
digicomnet.org/doctors-disinformation
>> He also said and more scientist like him that.How can a antibody in the blood
>> this is the vaccine stop a virus which enters from the air.Entering the cells which
>> lines the airways? The fact is it can't.That is why the vaccines against flu don't
>> work.
Are you really *that* thick?
The moderators of this group should be ashamed of themselves for letting this level of malicious disinformation stand. One can only assume that one or more of them support your point of view but doesn't have the guts or the balls to admit it openly.
You spout crass s***e, but don't even have the personal courage to use your original sign in name here. Presumably out of shame.
You are crass scum. You are all that is awful about the uneducated, malignant, cancerous part of today's society. And I can only assume that some of our moderators are so much part of your world that they will not stop you being worthless malignant scum, but they will delete me for pointing it out.
You, and your son, need to fck off and spend your pathetic lives with the other lowlifes that appreciate you and leave the worthwhile human beings in peace.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sat 26 Jun 21 at 00:02
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I think you and others do a more than worthy job of discrediting his info.
IMO If we suppressed it then the OP would see the counter arguments so they would take from that that their thinking is sound. And the rest of us would not really appreciate just how strong and genuinely held other peoples opinions (which do not match ours)
Your response started out well, providing a link to discredited doctors, but went somewhat downhill from there.
I'd like to think we all here already know and have an opinion of smurf and we also are sufficiently educated to choose what we believe.
Personally I am going to let both posts stand at the moment as each says something about it's author - but happy to be overruled by another mod - and I will mull it over :-)
btw, I am absolutely not in agreement with smurf, though I have discussed here that I can see why certain age groups might show concerns over taking the vaccines. I have never promoted not having it.
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I don't think the Mods here need to get their scissors out for Smurf who I still think is somebody's sock puppet/wind up merchant. Except for possibly Dog nobody else here promotes or appears to have swallowed the conspiracy stuff and there's no harm done.
The issues in Mainstream Social Media like Twitter and Facebook and the fact that people like Bobby's niece swallow it whole is though a significant concern.
Having said that paranoia and conspiracy thinking in the mentally ill were present long before the progenitors of Twitter and Facebook were even born.
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Absolutely, but it is so much easier to propagate the off-beat theories these days.
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The quality of the English in smurf's post tells me all that I need to know.
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"How can a antibody in the blood this is the vaccine stop a virus which enters from the air.Entering the cells which lines the airways? The fact is it can't.That is why the vaccines against flu don't work."
The misunderstanding and ignorance of anatomy and physiology shown by this statement are enough to disqualify you from making any convincing comment about disease or its prevention.
Unfortunately it seems that the vaccine-doubters and conspiracy theorists are mostly fairly stupid, but fancy themselves as experts with a deeper insight than others. Smurf is an excellent example, at the ridiculous end of the spectrum.
Last edited by: James Loveless on Sat 26 Jun 21 at 09:43
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... and here's a pre-print study which seems to have identified some serious after effects of having had the virus (no surprises there really)
www.forbes.com/sites/ninashapiro/2021/06/20/study-documents-changes-in-brain-after-covid-19-infection/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
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There's this (other) bloke in Chile who reckons interferons have only been produced experimentally as a Covid drug.
www.biobiochile.cl/noticias/nacional/region-del-bio-bio/2021/06/24/ante-dichos-de-jadue-udec-aclara-que-interferon-solo-se-ha-producido-de-manera-experimental.shtml (in Edge, right click to translate)
He is, of course, wrong: Synairgen, a good old UK company from Southampton, is well through a number of trials of their patented nebulised application of interferon and iit seems to be being very well received. www.synairgen.com/
It does seem to be worth taking seriously.
Last edited by: smokie on Sat 26 Jun 21 at 16:58
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who reckons interferons have only been produced experimentally as a Covid drug. [within the UdeC project]
Is what he actually said.
That aside, it does indeed seem like a worthwhile direction.
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He did, and you're right, on both counts :-)
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Coronavirus Vaccine - Volume 9 - helicopter
