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Ongoing debate.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 24 May 21 at 10:21
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Chile is going back into Quarantine. So far this week about 14m out of 19m are now in quarantine, I guess the rest will follow shortly.
The reason for this is that there are almost no ICU beds available. Not surprising.
What is surprising is that there is nobody over the age of 70 in ICU. Patients under 50 in the ICU have grown by 94% in the last month and they represent 24% of the beds in use.
Each day of the new patients entering ICU 42% are under 50.
Now that's not good news since they are 2 or 3 weeks from vaccinating 40 - 50yrs and then you can add a few weeks for protection to be achieved.
www.emol.com/noticias/Nacional/2021/03/21/1015522/pacientes-uci-menores-50-anos.html
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>> What is surprising is that there is nobody over the age of 70 in ICU
Very ill over 70s either don't get in in the first place, or die quick, as well as having vaccine protection (and at least in the UK do a better job of keeping away from covidiots).
Under 50s can last months on a ventilator.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Tue 23 Mar 21 at 21:26
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>>Under 50s can last months on a ventilator.
That is a point I hadn't considered. Is there any information on length of COVID-19 ICU stay?
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>>Is there any information on length of COVID-19
>> ICU stay?
>>
It takes a bit of wading through, but the regularly updated Icnarc report I've referenced before gives quite a lot of insight into the statistics for England, Wales and NI.
www.icnarc.org/DataServices/Attachments/Download/8b3a0f95-de88-eb11-912e-00505601089b
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If ICU is close to full capacity, a way to decide who gets the available beds is needed.
So do the doctors decide - or in some places it may be whoever has the biggest wedge or influence.
I suspect using scarce ICU beds for those most likely to recover would be the rational choice - I assume the under 50s have a far better outcome than the over 70s!
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>>If ICU is close to full capacity, a way to decide who gets the available beds is needed.
There is no chance of a decision process working or being accepted in Chile. It will be first come, first served.
And I think it's probably better that way.
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>>I suspect using scarce ICU beds for those most likely to recover would be the rational choice - I assume the under 50s have a far better outcome than the over 70s!
I would expect a combination of risk/survivability factors are taken into account, including discussion with the patient.
A large number of people with severe Covid are entirely alert despite being at death's door.
Very old/frail patients may/should be offered palliation rather than a protracted ICU stay with the possibility of survival and the likelihood of being increasingly disabled after even if they survive.
"Ceiling of Care" is the euphemism that appears to be used these days (eg. "ward level" would mean not for ICU). The same decisions are made every day, to be fair, even in General Practice - a failing care home resident may have a slim chance of recovery with full bhuna hospital care but it might not be in the patient's best interest (transfer to acute ward, different environment and staff, unpleasant treatments, etc). Best practice is of course to discuss with the patient, or to know the patient's wishes if they are unable to make an informed decision.
Almost everyone on a ventilator for any length of time suffers pneumonias and many suffer clots/strokes/sepsis/kidney failure before they perhaps recover, to wake up having had a tracheostomy and their bodies generally pretty wrecked.
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There is a fundamental difference between deciding which of two patients should be transferred to ICU [a decision no doubt made often with beds, organs etc. etc. and related to the best survival rate for the moment] and whether or not a particular patient should be transferred to an available bed in ICU because he might be blocking someone with a better chance tomorrow. [which is a deliberate guess, or playing of God because of the rules].
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>> There is a fundamental difference....
Indeed - I'm not privy to the guidelines followed by ICU consultants in managing their units. I suspect a "freedom of information" request for such would be kicked into the long grass until after the pandemic has receded.
Nothing normal about the impact of Covid in ICU - even the worst Flu years don't come close to the devastation (at least in my memory - wasn't here in 1968/69).
General practice has come through relatively unscathed compared to some hospital units and their staff.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56472115
"There have been times when I've come home and had a good cry, because we have witnessed so much… we're at the patient's bedside 12 hours a day and they haven't had that usual psychological support from their families.
"So we've been there… and got to know them as people, their likes and dislikes, their dreams; and then they've become really unwell and been placed on ventilators and quite often they haven't got through that.
"And that's been difficult because personally I've felt a bond to my patients, and to witness them not progress as we would wish, that's been really hard."
She has now described seeing coronavirus patients die as a "burden" she has to bear. In normal times, she might lose a patient in intensive care once every two weeks, but during the pandemic several were dying every day.
In the last wave over winter, she said more died than survived.
"I was once working in a pod where there were four patients with Covid," she said.
"I left my shift at 20:00 in the evening. When I returned the next day all the patients had died, and were replaced with different people… although it's hard bearing this burden, you don't become desensitised - if you do, it's time to give up the profession."
"1% is all we can afford" yet we can buy more Trident we'll never use.
The PM really is a complete dick.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Thu 25 Mar 21 at 00:50
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>>The PM really is a complete dick.
Sadly, he really is.
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" The PM really is a complete dick. ...
Sadly, he really is."
But the EU incompetents succeed in making him appear a genius ...... (from the Telegraph)
EU's 'most embarrassing' day: How the story behind the vaccine factory raid unravelled
Italian elite unit found millions of AstraZeneca doses thought to be meant for the UK - but their destination was the EU itself
It was an extraordinary story – the European Commission had turned detective to find AstraZeneca's secret stockpile of vaccines reserved for Britain.
During a surprise raid over the weekend, an elite unit of Italian military police acting on EU orders discovered 29 million jab doses hoarded at a factory near Rome.
The discovery appeared to confirm the EU's long-held suspicion that AstraZeneca was giving the UK special treatment, secretly exporting doses to its home country while failing to deliver on contracts agreed with Brussels.
Yet, as EU officials admitted on Wednesday, the allegation, briefed to the Continental press, simply wasn't true.
In fact, most of the doses discovered in the Italian factory were destined for the EU itself, with the remainder headed for poorer countries across the world.
One former Europe minister called it possibly the "most embarrassing day in the EU's history".
Fidiots indeed.
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I think this bit 'most embarrassing day in the EU's history" is a bit strong.
However this bit 'Yet, as EU officials admitted on Wednesday, the allegation, briefed to the Continental press, simply wasn't true' is the worst bit. Embarrassing.
Last edited by: sooty123 on Thu 25 Mar 21 at 09:41
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AstroZeneca has run into one problem after another. All the stories have proved groundless but have damaged the reputation of the Company . Its almost as if it is in someone's interest to blacken their name. I wonder who could be responsible what with them looking set to dominate the field with the cheapest, most easily handled and equally effective vaccine
Surley he possibility that if Astro Zeneca become the dominant player thier competitotrs could lose billions of dollars.has nothing to do with it.
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"AstroZeneca has run into one problem after another"
So, is it EU incompetence, or EU corruption?
or both?
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I've hidden some responses to this as it strayed off topic too far - so don't go looking elsewhere for them at the moment.
Feel free to mail the mods if you feel aggrieved by this and I'll call a mods meeting to review.
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That seems a sensible decision that shouldn't cause anybody to feel aggrieved.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Thu 25 Mar 21 at 13:59
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www.france24.com/en/europe/20210322-lockdown-confusion-france-s-new-covid-19-rules-raise-questions-satisfy-few
An article about the situation in France, I thought it pretty good. The Fr Gov does seem reluctant to call this a lockdown, I would imagine they are worried about riots etc as they have form for it over there.
They have switched from not wanting mass vaccination centres to now being in favour, similar the French government advice has switched to AZ only being for over 55s instead of the under 55s.
Everything points to them getting hit pretty hard over the next month or so.
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Micron says the EU moved too slowly
Praises the USA but could not mention the UK efforts
Daily Mail
Emmanuel Macron has delivered an humiliating mea culpa on the EU's vaccine bungling as leaders gather for a crunch summit today.
The French president admitted that the bloc did not go 'fast enough or strong enough' on the drive for jabs, saying it thought they would take longer to develop.
But Mr Macron seemingly could not bring himself to praise the UK's stunning progress on vaccines, instead heaping praise on the US for 'shooting for the stars'.
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[If I might suggest, I think Haywain's note about the vaccine and all the replies should be moved to the vaccine thread rather than this one.]
I am really surprised to be saying this, but the following link is to a reasonable and interesting Daily Mail article though it couldn't quite stop itself falling back to a very tabloid remainer comment at the end which should be ignored.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9401147/Macron-delivers-humiliating-vaccine-mea-culpa-amid-EU-summit.html
The EU's approach of central vaccine procurement was the right approach. It's the one that made sense for *all* countries of the EU - either because they needed the support or because they needed to show their commitment to the EU.
The train wreck as not because of their strategy, it was because of their attitude and implementation and that, so far, seems to have escaped criticism.
They took the standard, bureaucratic, safe and standard approach to procurement. And make no mistake, that is exactly what the UK has done on every other contract they've ever signed - just not this one. We're all aware of NHS, Infrastructure and Financing contractual nightmares that the our various Governments have brought us over the years.
I think they were all so scared about what was happening that the nice safe world of Government procurement was like a comfort blanket and they shut out the pressure secure they were doing a good thing.
They got two things wrong;
- They didn't realise that it was the apocalypse
- They thought they had more time because whoever heard of a vaccine in 7 months? They didn't realise that logistics and manufacturing would be on thr critical path. They thought development and field testing would be the hold up.
They would still have been ok except that many other places, the UK a leading one, did realise it was the apocalypse and pulled out every stopper, bulldozed every obstacle and broke every rule in a headlong charge to the goal.
t was not that the EU was particularly wrong, it was that the UK and the Pharmas were spectacularly right.
Everything since then has been panicking headless chickens trying to cover up and dodge responsibility for the situation that the EU finds itself in. They're politicians, what did we expect them to do.
Had AZ vaccine failed and Sanofi succeeded it could so easily have been the other way around.
One has to be careful of stones when one so nearly was living in a glass house.
The UK needs to stop rubbing it in and start to be the bigger person. If we think that we're that big/good, then let's prove it.
Let's genuinely sit down with the EU and work out what can be done to help.
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Apparently there are currently more than 5 million doses of the AZ vaccine unused in countries across Europe.
Now that is a pretty small number in the scheme of things, but it does rather suggest that the EU's problems go beyond supply and into the vaccination program itself.
Some combination of the program being crap and anti-vaxxers I suspect.
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"Some combination of the program being crap and anti-vaxxers I suspect."
It will most definitely not help when a country's leaders declare that a particular vaccine is not very good; those statements will bleed on to other vaccines as well.
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The proposition that joining forces to demonstrate the EU can work harmoniously to solve joint problems may be right, but implementation was unquestionaby completely flawed.
The British think the EU are a bunch of incompetents desperate to blame someone else for their inadequacies. It reinforces the wisdom of Brexit even amongst remainers (like me).
The EU want to blame somebody else. The Brits are a good target and they would dearly like to demonstrate that we have malicious intent. We left their club, already caused them budget problems, and undermined the solidity of the EU.
Boris and his team are the only ones I have seen referring tpo them as "our friends"!!
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>> "Some combination of the program being crap and anti-vaxxers I suspect."
>>
>> It will most definitely not help when a country's leaders declare that a particular vaccine
>> is not very good; those statements will bleed on to other vaccines as well.
You cant diss a solution to the point where people dont want it, and then complain you are not getting enough which will only go into a stockpile. The danes are still banning it over none existent bloodclots!
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Chile's progress with vaccinated is being touted in the Daily Mail I see.
Officially confirmed today was that with the Sinovac vaccine protection is only achieved 14 days after the second jab. Which currently means that only 7.4% of Chiles, or 1.4m people, have any vaccine protection.
Consequently Santiago has now gone into total quarantine. Everything closed from 5:00am Saturday.
No leaving the house at the weekend at all. You can apply twice a week to the Carabineros to be issued a pass to leave the house for permitted activities for 2 hours.
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I understand that the Spanish are not giving AZ to the over 60s. So if You're 60-70 years old you're waiting for Pfizer, whilst the youngsters are getting the AZ shots. You couldn't write this stuff. If anybody (me) thought leaving the EU was a mistake, it seems it probably wasn't.
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Let me get this right. Different EU countries have come to different conclusions as to efficacy of the vaccines in different age groups and to the risk of side effects.
You might think they were Sovereign....
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>>You might think they were Sovereign....
I don't think anyone was saying that they didn't have the right to do as they wish, just that what has been said that they will do appears illogical.
It may be to do with the efficacy, but I suspect not. More likely a reaction to public perception/resistance or a strategic decision given their supply chain challenges.
Difficult to know.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sat 27 Mar 21 at 17:21
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"You couldn't write this stuff."
Do you you have a link to anyone who actually has?
As far as I am able to find the Spanish have resumed the use of Astra Vaccinaiton with no restrictions as to age.
english.elpais.com/society/2021-03-23/spain-on-track-to-vaccinate-70-of-adult-population-with-at-least-first-dose-by-june.html
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The EU management of the vaccine rollout has been an unmitigated shambles.
They contracted too late. Different countries have imposed different policies for the AZ vaccine, and even changed policy mid-stream. They have consistently ignored evidence of efficacy in the UK and Israel.
Their rhetoric is almost entirely politically motivated in a belated effort to cover a**es and persuade their electorates that they are really on top of the issues (which they clearly are not).
Blame the Brits (an easy target) as they had the temerity to actually leave the EU club, messed up EU budgets, and have actually managed an excellent rollout.
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>> Different countries have imposed different policies for the AZ vaccine, and even changed policy mid-stream.
As you might expect; each country has its own rules, processes and politics.
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>> >> Different countries have imposed different policies for the AZ vaccine, and even changed policy
>> mid-stream.
>>
>> As you might expect; each country has its own rules, processes and politics.
As you would absolutely expect. It was only procurement that was intended to be centrally controlled. And I guess distribution to an extent.
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>> As you would absolutely expect. It was only procurement that was intended to be centrally
>> controlled. And I guess distribution to an extent.
And countries that failed to order enough through central procurement, are using them as a scapegoat. Has strange parallels in big business.......
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As is typical with all politicians, blame is far more important than doing the right thing. Which is indeed sadly common in big business, especially the older companies.
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It was rife in my company and very short-sighted. CYA was immediately deployed as staff scurried to cover themselves, so that the cause of the problem was concealed or made much harder to discern.
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Couple of interesting Youtube videos. Prof Chris Whitty talking to the Royal Society of Medicine
www.youtube.com/watch?v=4W6-aq8KhNQ
Dr John Campbell giving his usual daily roundup of recent coronavirus news which includes references to Chris Whitty's talk.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxIIjQqSgkA
CV deaths in the UK are now running at around 50 a day. That is a very similar figure to the deaths from flu in a normal winter - so around 7 - 8,000 per year. That doesn't make the newspapers. There was a mini flu epidemic during the winter of 2017/2018 when 25,000 died in the UK - that didn't make the newspapers either.
Perhaps we are approaching the point where 50 deaths a day during the winter is acceptable and barely worthy of comment? The weather is (should be) getting warmer, evenings are lighter. We can get outside, get some sun (vitamin D) on our bodies. that will keep Covid at bay.
Will we have a jab every Autumn, a combined Covid and flu jab? Just learn to live with it?
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Some pretty horrific figures for Brazil and some European countries - deaths and new cases.
www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
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There's a not-very-socially-distanced party going on in Bristol at the moment; it's on Youtube funded by RT ..... I wonder how it'll end.
youtu.be/58MkOPuqUGM
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"Why Bristol?"
It seems to be the hotbed of protest currently. RT label it 'LIVE: Bristol residents take to the streets in "Kill the Bill" protest'
What caught my eye was that RT was taking an interest, and that the caption could give the impression that the protesters were regular Bristol residents and not just a disaffected crowd from rentamob.
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How RT ever got a license for UK TV broadcast is beyond me.
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>> "Why Bristol?"
>>
>> It seems to be the hotbed of protest currently. RT label it 'LIVE: Bristol residents
>> take to the streets in "Kill the Bill" protest'
Who or what, is RT?
Rodney Trelawney?
Radio Tamar?
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TV station - used to be called Russia Today.
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>> Why Bristol?
Not much else to do there.
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Not far from Weston, though...
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....Weston-Super-Mud....?
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We Ambos got our first Pfizer jabs on January 21 with no reaction apart from a sore arm. We had the second on April 3, with sore arms but both also experiencing a low feeling, difficult to define but involving depleted energy. Have any other "two-timer" posters experienced this?
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I had the second Astra Zenica jab a week last Sunday. I was out tinkering in the garage yesterday and it was cold. Felt carp in the evening. Hot bath and felt carpier so an early night. Fine today.
I recall having a similar day sometime after the last jab.
I think it may be a spin off from the jab.
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I read earlier that Chile's infection rates are on the rise, despite a successful vaccination programme. The charts are here.
www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/chile/
I hope Mark is OK. He's not been around since March.
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>> I hope Mark is OK. He's not been around since March.
>>
Neither has Zippy.
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Chile shows ‘quick jab rollout doesn’t mean lockdown ends’
digitaleditions.telegraph.co.uk/data/562/reader/reader.html?social#!preferred/0/package/562/pub/562/page/5/article/159822
I hope Mark is OK as well, situation in Chile absolutely disastrous despite the high vaccination rate.
Last edited by: helicopter on Tue 6 Apr 21 at 19:38
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I have enquired of his health.
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I am fine, thank you.
Vaccinations continue apace here, but we are in total quarantine, the ICUs are on the edge of broken and the figures continue to rise.
Even on the ground it is difficult to be sure what is going on.
Firstly we are being vaccinated with Sinovac. In the UK it would appear that the figures started to drop about 20 days after vaccination accelerated. That aligns fairly well with the statements that AZ & Pfizer begin to give protection 14 days after first jab.
However, here that has not happened. Not even slightly.
Firstly we are led to believe that Sinovac begins to give protection 14 - 21 days after the second jab. Disappointing, but even then we should have started seeing some impact 2 or 3 weeks ago. We didn't.
Obviously that leads to worry about Sinovac especially given that we do have P1 here and Sinovac doesn't distinguish itself against P1. However, Turkey, which has a fine and sophisticated medical, health and science infrastructure says that Sinovac is 85% (ish) effective. And they're not usually wrong. It is unclear how much P1 we have here, other than the fact that it is more than none. However, it doesn't seem to be a particularly dominant strain, just a nasty one.
However, if we consider the public statements in Chile that Sinovac protection is 3 weeks after the second jab, then three weeks ago they were giving 60+ their second jab. (They're down to 50+ first jab at the moment).
It would appear that most infections are in the 25 - 55 age group. So that might fit with the delay. We can also see that >50% of people in ICU are under 55. So that might fit also.
What we can't see is the age distribution of hospital admissions at this time. And that would be really interesting.
Additionally in Jan and Feb the Chileans sod off to the beach. In their entirety for as long as they can. The Chileans are funny about their holiday period. In a not funny at all sort of way.
For example we had the horrendous riots, burnings, military on the street etc etc. 18 months ago. Millions of protestors swearing this was the most inportant thing they'd ever dealt with and they would die for the cause (literally).
And it was awful, until W3 December. And then it stopped dead. They might be prepared to die for the cause, but they weren't going to give up their summer holidays.
Last year the Chileans were being pretty sensible about COVId-19 overall. Until W3 December, when care stopped dead and they all pssed off to the beach and rubbed up against each for weeks on end.
Then a bunch of things happened together. W3 & W4 Feb everybody returns to the cities to start the new year. Schools returned with kids on W1 March. Autumn started and daily temperatures dropped from mid 30s to low 20s (unusually low for this time of year, and W4 Feb the Government allowed bars & restaurants to open for service *inside*.
So, unsurprisingly, COVID-19 exploded and continues to explode. Hospitals are overloaded, ICUs are all but full. Last report I saw said they had 4 days capacity left.
For Easter, and this is a lip-service Catholic country, The Government said that each person could apply for one pass to go out once. 6.5 million passes were issued - that's 35% of the population! How that is supposed to help I just don't know.
12,500 cars were prevented from leaving the city and 4,000 people were arrested. You couldn't make it up.
The only glimmer of hope is that yesterday and today the 7 & 14 day Case averages and the 7 & 14 day fatality averages both dropped slightly. So slightly that it could mean nothing.
On the other hand it is the first time the figures have done anything other than climb exponentially since 20th Feb.
We sit, we wait, we watch and we hope. But right now it is not great.
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Thanks for the detail and, believe it or not, glad to see you back here :-)
Stay safe...
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Thanks, I think.
I must admit I am finding the lockdown more difficult than I expected.
I think we were locked down for 4 months last time, and by the end it had started to get to me.
This time rather than starting from the beginning again my emotions appear to have simply picked up where they left off.
Additionally one of my daughters is not doing all that well.
And at least we're in a spacious house with both our own space and outside space. I cannot imagine how it is for hose in crowded apartments. Equally, a friend of mine who lives alone in an apartment block where he knows nobody is also suffering.
I think if things don't get better soon and a light at the end of the tunnel does not appear then quarantine is likely to collapse here as those in a much worse situation finally decide just to go out anyway. And once the seal is broken.......
And that's never mind the ones who cannot eat if they don't go out to get money one way or another.
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Is there any feeling in Chile that the wrong vaccine has been bought or much /any significant vaccine hesitancy?
What's the general feeling with increases despite the roll out going pretty well?
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>>Is there any feeling in Chile that the wrong vaccine has been bought or much /any significant vaccine hesitancy?
My sense is that there is not much in the way of vaccination hesitancy though there is still lots of conspiracy talk about how COVID-19 is a Government invention. However, it seems to me that those beliefs are not strong enough to keep anyone out of the vaccination rooms.
Certainly as they lower the age that may get vaccinations each day then the centres are getting busier and busier. (Bearing in mind that the lower the specified age then the more there are in that group.
There is increasing concern about the vaccine. But what can they do? If they decide to go out and buy a first world vaccine now there is one hell of a waiting list.
#1 daughter got the Pfizer vaccine, but she is the only one I know of that who has been offered anything other than Sinovac.
Chileans generally don't have very inquiring minds. They are generally likely to accept what is put in front of them unless there is a more attractive conspiracy available. They rarely consider that someone is simply wrong and just choose between the truth and a lie.
My personal feeling, perhaps hope, is that it is a timing thing. That it takes longer to protect people and it is younger people who are getting sick.
We shall see.
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Yes true they've no other choice, I just wondered if some form of criticism of the government was bubbling away as Chile is, from what you've said, no stranger to riots.
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>>, I just wondered if some form of criticism of the government was bubbling away as Chile is, from what you've said, no stranger to riots.
Without doubt there is. Not for any specific reason though, just generally because they are the Government.
The social unrest is still there and the general belief is that as the apocalypse passes then the peasants will rise up once more.
Though in the case of Chile the 'peasants' are mostly students. Everybody else is working.
Particularly because one of the things that was promised was a new constitution and those responsible for writing and agreeing it were supposed to be chosen in a countrywide election in 3 weeks time. The elections have just been cancelled/delayed.
There is a sector of the population that sees the delay of those elections as irrevocable proof that COVID-19 is a Government conspiracy designed to keep them downtrodden.
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Zippy has been carted off by the ole bill
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I heard he was a special witness in the Floyd case.
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I always knew he was a BLM agitator
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Blue lives matter ( if you’re a Smurf)
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>> Bald Lives Matter?
No Zippy was the BLM. With mark its OGM
Only Gin Matters
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Not good, but they still haven't reached the UK's total death rate. And Brazil's current daily death rate is still below what the UK's was at its peak I think. If we believe the figures.
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>> Not good, but they still haven't reached the UK's total death rate. And Brazil's current
>> daily death rate is still below what the UK's was at its peak I think.
>> If we believe the figures.
I think you are mistaken.
UK Total deaths 127,000
Brazil total deaths 340,000
60,000 died in March alone. 2,000 per day ish, and I think the UK's highest ever 7 day average was about 1,300.
Brazil has vaccinated about 6% of it's country. It has authorised AZ & Sinovac/Coronavac but essentially just has Sinovac. It also has P1 and Sinovac is not particularly effective against P1 though information is limited.
They have limited supplies of oxygen, broken hospitals and corruption.
Brazil is more fckd than a fckd thing and there is no light at the end of the tunnel. Peru is sinking with it.
Read more of the sorry tale here.
www.wionews.com/world/brazil-is-brilliant-at-vaccinations-so-what-went-wrong-this-time-367135
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>> I think you are mistaken.
>>
>> UK Total deaths 127,000
>> Brazil total deaths 340,000
I think the subject was deaths per 100k population.
UK 191.17
Brazil 158.85
It may of course be that the UK figures are broadly accurate and that Brazil's are as crooked as a very crooked thing.
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Ah, thanks, I didn't realise that.
Brazil's figure are probably not corrupt, but I guarantee they are wildly inaccurate. They just don't know what is really happening and Bolsonaro is a nutter.
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>> Ah, thanks, I didn't realise that.
>>
>> Brazil's figure are probably not corrupt, but I guarantee they are wildly inaccurate. They just
>> don't know what is really happening and Bolsonaro is a nutter.
I doubt that any countries figures are directly accurately comparable, for reasons varying from deliberate state conspiracy, through corruption, inability, ineptitude to valid but varying criteria and parameter choices.
But of course its all fake anyway
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>> I doubt that any countries figures are directly accurately comparable, for reasons varying from
>> deliberate state conspiracy, through corruption, inability, ineptitude to valid but varying criteria
>> and parameter choices.
And Brazil is a very big place run by incompetents.
A few years ago there was a break out of Sao Paulo prison through the subtle application of a JCB digger at full speed into one of the walls. Not only did they not have any idea who had escaped, they found quite a number that had not escaped that they didn't know they had imprisoned. Including one guy who should have been released 10 years beforehand but somehow wasn't.
So when they come up with "figures" you know it's a guess. There are parts of Brazil which are a very long way from a city and they have no idea what is occurring.
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This is the current state of play in Chile.
The text and titles are in Spanish but I don't think that will matter, it's all pretty obvious.
www.emol.com/especiales/2020/internacional/coronavirus/casos-chile.asp
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There are 180 ICU beds available in the country. That's more than 96% occupancy.
15.5% of tests given yesterday were positive. (35,604 given. Previously that has been as high as 90,000, I don't know why the drop)
There were 5,134 new cases yesterday 940 of which were asymptomatic.
FYI, Chile's population is 19.3 million. Well, a bit less than that by now I guess.
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>> Bald Lives Matter?
So cruel.
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>> Zippy has been carted off by the ole bill
>>
Was that a joke?
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Yes
At least I thought it was, but it might be true
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>> Yes
>>
>> At least I thought it was, but it might be true
I hope he's OK. He's also an occasional poster on HJ but I've not seen him there for a while.
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Probably been transferred to a black site in the mountains in Albania.
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>> Probably been transferred to a black site in the mountains in Albania.
CIA rendition perhaps?
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Should auld acquaintance be forgot:
Dutchie
Pat
Iffy
Ted
Cliff Pope
Lud
Roger
Stu
SteelSpark
Londoner
Statistical Outlier
Westpig
Badwolf
Midlifecrisis
L'escargot
Bellboy
Etc.
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>> Should auld acquaintance be forgot
I stay in touch with Pat. Ted's still knocking around too.
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>>
>>
>> I stay in touch with Pat. Ted's still knocking around too.
>>
What happened to Cliff pope, he just disappeared? Hope he's ok.
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>>I stay in touch with Pat. Ted's still knocking around too.
Bueno - I have a nose around her FB page now and again. Pleased to hear Teddy is still about.
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>>I hope Mark is OK. He's not been around since March.
Meh, 'ok' about covers it but at least I am well. Thank you for asking.
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>> Meh, 'ok' about covers it but at least I am well. Thank you for asking.
Ah, the clot has returned ;)
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I wish all the demonstrating anti-lockdown, anti-mask, anti-vaccine t***s could be forcibly shipped to Brazil.
Some COVID-19 reality for you, from this side of the world.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-latin-america-56723439
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50% of the people who died in March did so without being able to get into ICU. No space.
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>> 50% of the people who died in March did so without being able to get
>> into ICU. No space.
Which of course, together with the prospect of being unable to 'process' the dead was why Western Democracies imposed lockdown.
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7 of us, from 5 households, are driving to Scotland on Monday April 26. Eight days walking a National Trail, three accommodations en route, mini bus taxis booked.
It’s been a nightmare to arrange....the hotels and pubs say it’s ok to share a room from different households, the minibus taxis think it’s ok, and we are car sharing on the journey and shuttling cars between start & finish points.
Obviously we’ll wear masks in the taxis and when car sharing ( as we did in Spain for 3 months).
What can possibly go wrong.
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>> What can possibly go wrong.
>>
It hasn't rained much here for the last few weeks, and there is little rain in the forecast out to about the 26th, which almost certainly means it will lash down after that!
I am away to Inverness over the May BH weekend for some cycling, fully expecting to get a soaking....
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I heard on Twitter late on Monday evening that the NHS website was accepting vaccine bookings for 45-49 year olds, and that an announcement would be made in the morning.
I tried the website and was able to book a jab for yesterday morning, and a second dose at the end of June. I hear the booking website fell over when the announcement was put out yesterday - that would explain why I was the only patient in the place at 11am.
I had the AstraZeneca. This evening my arm's a bit sore, but I have no other ill effects.
Last edited by: Dave_ on Wed 14 Apr 21 at 22:17
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Why are so many babies dying of Covid-19 in Brazil?
www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-56696907
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SWMBO had her hair cut (done?) today. She's now wearing a scarf indoors, as she reckons her neck feels cold.
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Right now, in Chile, the ICUs are overloaded. More than half of the occupants are under 40.
I do hope the UK keeps on vaccinating until everybody is done, and the idiots are not tempted to assume that because they're young they're safe.
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The UK is going pretty well, due to be a slow month though due to the lack of vaccine. Supply this month is described as 'lumpy' although the third vaccine has arrived and is being used.
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Anyone else get asked if they could go short notice for their second vaccination? Seemed to have a surplus round here over the next 72 hours.
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Sounds like Starmer was being perfectly reasonable on an arranged and agreed photo op visit and someone decided to behave like a dick.
Unwittingly I think the dick will have made Starmer look good.
www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-56805144
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I think when someone gets all ranty, there's only one winner.
Although I understand Mr shouty was a co-landlord bit odd the other one didn't tell him about it.
Last edited by: sooty123 on Mon 19 Apr 21 at 20:59
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>> I think when someone gets all ranty, there's only one winner.
>>
>> Although I understand Mr shouty was a co-landlord bit odd the other one didn't tell
>> him about it.
There are folks out there saying that Starmer should have engaged with the guy and that the “so I really don’t need lectures from you about this pandemic” line was patronising and disrespectful.
I thought they may have a point but then I saw the video; I don't think Mr Humphris was susceptible to rational discussion.
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The guy was a dick and I think Starmer handled it as well as he could.
There will *always* be people who won't like the way that he handled it and will whine about it invoking as many woke media-attracting buzzwords as possible, in the main they will be political opponents of his or supporters of the dick.
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>> supporters of the dick.
The dicks dicks. He sounds like a covid denier so is not worthy of the respect of rational discussion.
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The ranter was on breakfast tv this morning by video link. Not ranting just wrong (in my view). Dr Hilary gave him very short shrift.
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/56876695
Looks like the health care system in India has collapsed. One expert in India said this could carry on for weeks.
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I was reading this yesterday.
It's almost impossible to imagine the hell-hole much of India has become - an example of how the wrong mindset led a government to expose its population to carnage, by allowing, for example, mass religious gatherings in the belief that somehow India had conquered the virus - not that anyone knew how.
When you read the figures you need to remember that no-one really knows what is going on. There's no proper system for recording births and deaths at the best of times. In the pandemic, thousands upon thousands of the underclass are probably dying unreported in villages and slums. Only those whose families have some resources can even get their infected members anywhere near a hospital.
It is a disaster of biblical proportions.
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>> It's almost impossible to imagine the hell-hole much of India has become - an example
>> of how the wrong mindset led a government to expose its population to carnage, by
>> allowing, for example, mass religious gatherings in the belief that somehow .......
...........the belief that somehow the supreme being would save them, if they prayed hard enough.
Other systems based on mumbo jumbo are available.
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There was an interesting half-hour programme on Radio 4 yesterday evening on the subject of the latest wave in India - well worth a listen ......
www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000vhlh
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So, Chile.....
The case rate has been improving for the last 10 days in many places. Not hugely, but steadily. 20% on it's 7 day Av. high I should think. Overall ICU is at about 75% which is actually pretty good in the scheme of things and about 40% of the country is effectively vaccinated I think, and vaccinations continue. First jabs for 40 - 45yr olds this week, so they'll be protected 6 weeks from now.
One would think that once we've got the 35 year olds protected we should be ok. Currently 30 - 50 year olds are most of those in ICU/Hospital.
Some parts of Santiago had the restrictions lowered yesterday. About 1m out of the 7m, something like that. We're now allowed out 05:00 - 21:00 Monday to Friday and pubs/ restaurants can serve outside.
Obviously therefore we hit the pub yesterday afternoon which was an enormous relief. For the company rather than the booze, but there was a fair amount of booze anyway.
Some of the schools in the released areas go back to part-time in school lessons from Monday.
I think they may have begun to open Santiago a bit early. I think another two weeks would have been more sensible, but it is what it is.
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Inevitably, I guess, Pakistan is on the same road as India.
These uncontrolled environments are going to be a danger to all of us for years to come, which the increased likelihood of harmful variants.
Being next door to BRazil scares the crap out of me.
www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-56888541
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sat 1 May 21 at 20:16
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>> These uncontrolled environments are going to be a danger to all of us for years
>> to come, which the increased likelihood of harmful variants.
The speed this thing spread round the world in the first place is an indication of how interconnected the world is via business social and tourism travel, and the subsequent supply chain issues show the vulnerabilities of global business.
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Very much so, and also why for once the UK suffered because of it's mobility and international nature.
Though I think there is another point. We thought we were immune and that everything was safe. Having found out that it is not that does not mean that we should not do it. We just need to do it with open eyes.
Aside from the terrible suffering, I think in many ways Coronavirus may well result in the Planet Earth improving, when all is said and done.
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The world economic forum in 2019 did an analysis of global preparedness to deal with a pandemic.
"The index analyzes those preparation levels by focusing on whether countries have the proper tools in place to deal with large scale outbreaks of disease. Measured on a scale of 0 to 100 where 100 is the highest level of preparedness, the United States came first, followed by the United Kingdom and the Netherlands. Unsurprisingly, higher income countries tended to record better scores in the index."
They were a little less than right - in fact completely wrong. Moral of the story - don't trust experts.
Whether the pundits on Car4play are any better is open to debate - but they would find it difficult to be more wrong!
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>> Measured on a scale of
>> 0 to 100 where 100 is the highest level of preparedness, the United States came
>> first, followed by the United Kingdom and the Netherlands.
>>
With the benefit of hindsight, who did get it right - or wrong?
Australia and New Zealand? Well, yes, but Australasia is, I believe, called a destination. In other words, you aren't travelling somewhere else. Therefore there is less likelihood of infection. On the other hand lots of people transit through the UK. Therefore more chance of infection.
The Indian death figures are horrific, but scaled up, the are comparable to the UK at the height of the second wave.
Who did do well and who did badly, everything else being equal?
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The seed for UK's infection was largely Brits returning from Italy.
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>> The Indian death figures are horrific, but scaled up, the are comparable to the UK
>> at the height of the second wave.
Probably not, Indian figures are somewhere between 50 & 100% under reported.
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Comparing the rates in an over reporting country seemingly way past it's peak with a massively under reporting country still accelerating doesn't seem reasonable.
In any case, an absolute number is far more indicative of people suffering that a percentage of population.
And finally what's the point of the comparison anyway? It was as bad as it was in one, and is as bad as it is in the other. I don't think it'll make the Indian population feel any better.
This, from the BBC this morning.
www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-56934826
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Perhaps they just had a misunderstanding as to the meaning of "proper tools in place"?
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>> Perhaps they just had a misunderstanding as to the meaning of "proper tools in place"?
>>
Or maybe the only bit they had really completed was the checklist. There are a lot of so called disaster recovery/business continuity plans/risk registers that start and end with the paper they are written on.
Last edited by: Manatee on Sun 2 May 21 at 12:08
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The fully democratic west did a lot worse than some dictatorial states or those with an expectation of government surveillance (S Korea/Singapore/Taiwan) simply because we live in societies where we can do whatever we want to do until it is prohibited.
Hence Boris's discomfort at locking us down.
Other countries have the viwe that everything is prohibited until expressly permitted, so lockdown was a less anguished option and they did better than we did.
It is a balance. The UK is so multi-cultural and so evidently the 'crossroads of the world' that we were inevitably going to suffer badly, although we can only say this with hindsight.
Although I have lost friends and acquaintances to Covid, I am not sure that starting lockdown a week earlier would have changed the figures dramatically. We needed to start a month earlier, but there is no way the British people would have stood for that.
Thankfully the phone numbers in Boris's mobile phone have got us out of the mess far more quickly than almost every other country. I know that when overseas travel for holidays is permitted, I shall be only considering the USA and Israel until Europe has sorted itself out.
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>> The fully democratic west did a lot worse than some dictatorial states or those with
>> an expectation of government surveillance (S Korea/Singapore/Taiwan) simply because we live in societies where we can do whatever we want to do until it is prohibited.
>>
>>
>>
But how can we trust the figures provided by states where everything, including the media, is controlled by the government? Such places are not in the habit of publicising bad news.
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The fully democratic west did a lot worse than some dictatorial states or those with an expectation of government surveillance (S Korea/Singapore/Taiwan) simply because we live in societies where
we can do whatever we want to do until it is prohibited.
>>
>> But how can we trust the figures provided by states where everything, including the media,
>> is controlled by the government? Such places are not in the habit of publicising bad
>> news.
>>
I don't think that you would put South Korea/Taiwan/Singapore in that category. Certainly less overtly 'free' than Europe and the West, but have major elements of democratic and unfettered opposition, so I do trust their figures. I have zero trust in the figures coming out of Russia, China, Turkey, Iran etc.
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>> Thankfully the phone numbers in Boris's mobile phone have got us out of the mess
>> far more quickly than almost every other country.
So far as we know they had no bearing on the situation. Dyson never produced ventilators or else those they did were never used.
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My centrally supplied PPE masks were expiry date 2016.
A sticker with 2021 was put over the original packaging.
This was the same for many masks in England also.
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>> My centrally supplied PPE masks were expiry date 2016.
Would it have made any difference to theire effectiveness? Looking at some of the dates in my pantry.................
This was a pandemic!
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>> Would it have made any difference to theire effectiveness?
I am sure 10yr old masks are likely to be about as effective as 5yr old ones.
However it is indicative of the utter lack of planning in the UK for a proper pandemic.
Swine flu? Spaffed hundreds of millions on a drug (Tamiflu) that probably does jack.
Covid19 - had to spaff billions (with plenty going through dodgy channels) to buy protective gear at way over the odds.
Prepared we were not (as far as equipment goes) and having stripped our hospital capacity to be barely adequate in normal years many patients have been badly neglected as services were switched to "save the NHS" (which means save the hospitals) mode.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Sun 2 May 21 at 18:07
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The problem is politicians driving such things.
Like them or not (I don't) they have no applicable skill set.
The Civil Service, and other organisations, are supposed to bring those skills but I have little confidence in their efficiency. And I don't think they get the right support either.
So who are they supposed to use to assess pandemic readiness?
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>> Kate Bingham
I'd happily give her and the Vaccine Taskforce credit for what they've achieved though I suspect NHS's in house logistics and planning had much to do with 'on the ground delivery'.
I forgot until I re-read her biography that she was the daughter of the late Lord Bingham, probably the most distinguished judge and jurist of his generation.
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>> >> Kate Bingham
>>
>> I'd happily give her and the Vaccine Taskforce credit for what they've achieved though I
>> suspect NHS's in house logistics and planning had much to do with 'on the ground
>> delivery'.
Its almost entirely down to one thing, Everyone* in the UK has a unique centrally registered NHS number, and via a GP or other medical intervention, has matching mostly up to date contact details.
*of course there are the undocumented, they get nothing anyway
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 2 May 21 at 16:56
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>*of course there are the undocumented, they get nothing anyway
Is that right? Illegals can be vaccinated here.
Of course the process is different in Chile. Here one is not called up, one is told the criteria for a particular day and provided that you can prove you meet those criteria then you just rock up and get jabbed.
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>> Is that right? Illegals can be vaccinated here.
Not sure what Zeddo means by 'undocumented'. If you've arrived, whether by lorry or boat, and claimed Asylum then you're documented - at least for basic treatment. I think it's recognised that overstayers etc can access vaccination too.
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When you go for a vaccination in the UK how do you prove who you are? And indeed your entitlement to a vaccination?
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>> When you go for a vaccination in the UK how do you prove who you
>> are? And indeed your entitlement to a vaccination?
You dont, cant, just "rock up" You need to be pre booked via one of the several channels.
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>> >> When you go for a vaccination in the UK how do you prove who
>> you are? And indeed your entitlement to a vaccination?
>>
>> You dont, cant, just "rock up" You need to be pre booked via one of
>> the several channels.
I get that. So here you have to prove your eligibility only, not your ID. In the UK I assume that you have to prove your identity.
How do you do that?
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>> How do you do that?
You have an appointment time, you rock up, they ask your name, postcode, DOB and your in.
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Quite cumbersome really, and so much more difficult to plan.
Here, for example, they might say tomorrow is people aged 48. Then anybody aged 48 can show up at any vaccination centre, prove their age and get vaccinated. It works pretty well.
And because there are so many vaccinations centres then they load balance pretty easily.
In fact, if Chile had chosen Pfizer or AZ it'd have all been done and dusted by now. Sadly they chose Sinovac which introduces a 6 week delay before protection is achieved. Which properly screwed them up. The fact that they didn't know didn't help.
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>> Not sure what Zeddo means by 'undocumented'. If you've arrived, whether by lorry or boat,
>> and claimed Asylum
If you haven't (and plenty dont) you are undocumented.
>> recognised that overstayers etc can access vaccination too.
Overstayers are overstayers because they have gone underground, no known address, they are undocumented and unlikely to appear for a vaccination.
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I didn't think overstayers were undocumented, thought they are of course illlegals.
All stuff and nonsense of course, everybody should be vaccinated, it's not a sensible time to discount anyone.
>>because they have gone underground, no known address
Sadly not. They don't go underground, they don't change or hide their address, they just don't leave. They get paid cash in hand, or borrow someone else's NI number, and life carries on undisturbed.
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>> Sadly not. They don't go underground, they don't change or hide their address, they just
>> don't leave. They get paid cash in hand, or borrow someone else's NI number, and
>> life carries on undisturbed.
They do, they give one on arrival, then go somewhere else, living in a HOMO with lots of others, sometimes owned by an employer, unknown to the council gov or services, paid cash, outside the system carrying no documentation.
If thats not underground I dont know what the term means
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I think you'll find that mostly they put little or no effort into hiding. It simply isn't necessary.
Still, not important.
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>> I think you'll find that mostly they put little or no effort into hiding. It
>> simply isn't necessary.
I guess it's a bit like 50 Ways to Leave Your Lover.....
A lot come as students or visitors and don't go home
Or come as Spouses and go their own way
A few arrive on false documents
Quite a lot are trafficked for sex work, nail bars etc
Others arrive off lorries and disappear into the cash economy of their own volition
Since the 'Hostile Environment' meant Employers, Landlords and Banks have been press ganged into acting as Immigration Enforcement many more have gone off radar. Some, like the Windrush folks, are wrongly accused of being illegals.
As long as you have an NHS number it's pretty easy to get vaccinated. Booking on line I couldn't find mine but the system tallied me up from my name, DoB and Doctor's practice. No ID check at the centre but I was asked my name, address and DoB several times.
If you've somehow got to being 40+ with no NI number I doubt it's impossible to get vaccinated.
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My perception and experience would be.,..
>>A lot come as students or visitors and don't go home
Lots and lots and lots.
>>Or come as Spouses and go their own way
Some.
>>A few arrive on false documents
Some.
>>Quite a lot are trafficked for sex work, nail bars etc
More than there should be, most certainly. But I think it's an attractive subject for tabloids and gets over reported.
>>Others arrive off lorries and disappear into the cash economy of their own volition
Lots.
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living in a HOMO
>> with lots of others, sometimes owned by an employer, unknown to the council gov or
>> services, paid cash, outside the system carrying no documentation.
Sorry, I know it's The Sun. Yes, I know it's 2017.
www.thesun.co.uk/news/4839267/immigrants-sheds-garages-southall-west-london/
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>> Sorry, I know it's The Sun. Yes, I know it's 2017.
>>
>> www.thesun.co.uk/news/4839267/immigrants-sheds-garages-southall-west-london/
Isn't that more about voracious landlords than illegal migrants?
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>>Isn't that more about voracious landlords than illegal migrants?
Absolutely.
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Why is the covid/corona virus rate so high in Hyndburn? It is the highest in the country. Second is Bolton.
What are they doing/not doing in Lancashire?
www.lancs.live/news/lancashire-news/hyndburn-now-highest-infection-rate-20526009
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>> What are they doing/not doing in Lancashire?
The press report you linked suggests an outbreak in a school is the main driver for the increase.
We also know areas where there are significant populations of folks with South Asian heritage tend to have higher rates due to transmission in multi-occupier/multi generation homes.
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I think one of the key points of this kind of report is that it isn't going away anytime soon.
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"I think one of the key points of this kind of report is that it isn't going away anytime soon."
Since last October when a friend and I decided to call it a day with choir, I have been nerdishly keeping an eye on the 'number of weekly new cases per 100k population' for our area. That figure peaked at 499 on 8th Jan, then slowly came down to 5 on 15th April and then started to rise again. It is currently hovering at around 30, and it most certainly has not gone away.
I wonder what sort of questions are asked when someone now catches covid ...... what patterns are emerging? Of course, track and trace was never going to work when the virus was on the rampage, but under present circumstances, it should come into its own.
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Vaccines (a) reduce by ~90% the probability of serious outcomes, and (b) even if those vaccinated are infected, reduces the probability of transmission.
With so high a number of people vaccinated in this country there is little chance of the virus becoming generally widespread - vaccine resistant mutations excepted.
However it is still possible for the virus to spread within communities which have limited protection - in particular some ethnic communities and the young.
The latter group is probably fairly unimportant as the young very rarely experience material symptoms. But where other groups refuse vaccination due to cultural religious or other reasons the virus will spread with consequences.
Sorry to say it, but I have little sympathy when they could get protected very easily and choose not to.
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I believe there are now some questions over the Pfizer vaccine and how it may affect the immune system Note this isn't a peer reviewed study.
www.fr24news.com/a/2021/05/research-suggests-pfizer-biontech-covid-19-vaccine-reprograms-innate-immune-responses-fr.html
I'm sure during this mornings reads I read that the India variant in the UK has gone from 1% to 11% of the total cases in a short time but I can't find it again.
And for any tech twitterers out there this tweet brings together info to describes how mutations (esp of the Indian variant) combine to kill T cells and allow fungal development. how the Indian variant.
twitter.com/fitterhappierAJ/status/1392051355460767746
and another which tells you more about the spread of the Indian variant. Tweet 9 shows how rapidly it is growing in the UK, which demonstrates why Matt Handcock has said they are concerned about it.
twitter.com/trvrb/status/1392132862338469890
Lastly for those who like graphs this page is full of info, most of which I don't understand, but you can "play" the map graphic to dee thee emergence of various "clades" which I'm sure it will give hours of amusement.
All very technical, all (AFAIK) unproven and all a bit scary.
Oh, and I was reading last night that they are fairly confident that the boffins can in theory tell at the point of hospitalisation whether a case is likely to become serious or not.
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My Trust has recently briefed us that they have been told to prepare for a third wave, this will only have come from the powers above but no mention of when this might be or how bad (although it is expected to affect our ITU cv19+ve numbers which have been at zero for a couple of weeks now).
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I think few doubt there will be a third wave, End July I have heard, expected to be variants brought in by travelers. Vaccination is expected to make sure its not as bad as wave 2.
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The Indian variant is causing concern.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57109660
High rate of in infection in Formby.
Formby?
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>> High rate of in infection in Formby.
>>
>> Formby?
>>
I believe it is carried on Ukelele strings
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>I believe it is carried on Ukelele strings
By window cleaners?
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Too much billing and cooing in Formby.
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57138371
Anyone on here off away in the next couple of weeks?
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Off to the Western Isles a week on Friday but abroad still far too much hassle.
Just been listening to a guy on the radio who'd gone to Portugal this morning. Outbound Covid teat, pre-return Covid test and another 48 hours after arrival.
We're recommended to take lateral flow tests 24 hours before crossing and again just before boarding the ferry. That's enough hassle. Coming from abroad requires PCR tests.
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I would love to know how the vaccine allocation system works on a local level.
Had my first jab mid March as did SWMBO and have heard nothing since re jab 2.
Others we know locally had had jab 1 later (same age or younger and no health issues) but have already been called for jab 2.
Do different GPs get different allocations?
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I believe so, me and the OH had 2nd jab booked when we had our first. I guess everywhere is different.
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Mrs B and I were booked differently either because we're in different age cohorts or because she's treated as having an underlying health condition. Her bookings were generated through the GP surgery and were at a vaccination centre ot King's Heath, on the north side of town. Her second came through by the same route.
Mine were booked on line with the first on 05-03-21 and the second 21-05-21 at Moulton Park - and industrial estate/business park right round the other side of town.
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Mrs RP had Pfizer via her surgery job at one of the former "Nightingale" centres. I had to rely on my surgery which worked well enough for me, first on March 13 at local "country club" -Second last Tuesday at the surgery as the country club was re-opening for business. Mrs RP works on the admin side of the vaccine for her surgery. Interesting to hear her updates.
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>> Mrs RP had Pfizer via her surgery job at one of the former "Nightingale"
Are those what they call Rainbow hospitals in Wales?
One near my daughter's gaff but it was being used for rehab/recuperation for the elderly rather than treatment.
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Local FB page has been advertising the past 3 weeks for anyone over the age of 16 to come and get jabbed.
On Saturday I was walking with a recently retired healthcare professional who lives 2 valleys away from the centre of Blackburn. She told us that the NHS are now targeting specific streets in the locale with a vaccination bus because of the particularly poor take up.
If you are so stupid to resist being vaccinated, without a darned good reason, then in my world you would be refused treatment should you contract CV.
The bad news is you may die.
The good news is that the gene pool would be improved.
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>>If you are so stupid to resist being vaccinated, without a darned good reason, then in my world you would be refused treatment should you contract CV.
You certainly should be refused sympathy and kindness. Unfortunately being a total t*** is still not illegal.
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And fatties shouldn't get diabetes treatment, no inhalers or cancer treatment for smokers 'til they repent their wicked ways.
A measure of any society is how well they look after their morons.
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>>
>> And fatties shouldn't get diabetes treatment, no inhalers or cancer treatment for smokers 'til they
>> repent their wicked ways.
>>
>> A measure of any society is how well they look after their morons.
Alas when you do, they replicate.
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>>Alas when you do, they replicate.
Nah - they don't fall apart until after they finish doing that.
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>>
>> And fatties shouldn't get diabetes treatment,
Perhaps not, but they should pay for their flight ticket by the kilo.
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Coronavirus - Volume 33 - No FM2R
