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Discussion continues
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 11 Jan 21 at 10:15
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If it were my business I would have sacked him as a customer by now.
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He can have no concept of irony. He wants to be able to sue Twitter if they publish lies, which is basically what he uses it for; and he seeks to subvert an election by accusing the other side of rigging it.
He's not stupid, he just has no respect for truth, anybody or anything except himself. That is surely an abnormality that should preclude anyone being President.
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Becoming an object of ridicule is going to become increasingly the order of the day.....
donaldjtrump2024.com/
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It should become the order of the day - but remember over 70m voted for him.
They do include a fair chunk of the stupid, ignorant, angry, bigoted etc - but some are just traditional republican voters who felt "better the narcissistic crank from our party" rather than a democrat. Bit like the Labour/Tories division in the UK.
Some politicians understand the power of the media to manipulate and influence opinion and votes. Those who don't will lose, however good their policies and displays of integrity etc.
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>> It should become the order of the day - but remember over 70m voted for him.
>>
>> They do include a fair chunk of the stupid, ignorant, angry, bigoted etc - but
>> some are just traditional republican voters who felt "better the narcissistic crank from our party" rather than a democrat.
>> Some politicians understand the power of the media to manipulate and influence opinion and votes.
Trump is trying hard to reduce the number of Republicans who will vote in Georgia by having some maskless balls :-( Let them all shout and holler and pass it on!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0BPAuGmx_Y
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Everyone I think has been following Rudy Giuliani's hilarious legal campaign, the farcical evidence, the lunatic "witnesses" the press conference next to the dildo shop, the hair dye running down his face, the farting......
well
edition.cnn.com/2020/12/06/politics/rudy-giuliani-coronavirus-positive/index.html
I bet he is not positive, trump cant sack him without ridicule, this is the only way out. Trump however does not irony, and this is ironic.....
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 6 Dec 20 at 21:36
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Rudy Giulian on a call into his own show....
"I am doing fine. Pretty much all the symptoms are gone. The minute I took the cocktail I felt 100% better. It works very quickly, wow," he told his colleagues on his weekly show with 77 WABC radio from the Medstar Georgetown University Hospital in Washington DC.
Luckiest b****** alive or a dumb a*** faker who thought it would ingratiate him with his boss?
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>>
>>
>> Luckiest b****** alive or a dumb a*** faker who thought it would ingratiate him with
>> his boss?
>>
Option 2.
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More possible irony.
Can Georgia's 17-year-olds change Biden’s presidency?
www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-55205931
www.technologyreview.com/2020/11/15/1012145/georgia-senate-runoff-23000-17-year-olds-registered-to-vote/
Maybe a woman will be the deciding vote.
And Agent Orange spouts on
www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-55206015
Supreme Court rejects bid to overturn Pennsylvania result
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55243008
The one-sentence ruling did not even cover the Republicans' allegations, reading simply:
"The application for injunctive relief presented to Justice Alito and by him referred to the Court is denied."
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I wonder what (current) 17 year-olds will really think of the old codgers vying to be president. I'd have thought that they can see through Trump but Biden might appear like their great granddad. Either way it's a ridiculous state of affairs.
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>> I wonder what (current) 17 year-olds will really think of the old codgers vying to
>> be president. I'd have thought that they can see through Trump but Biden might appear
>> like their great granddad. Either way it's a ridiculous state of affairs.
I suspect that Biden's best thinking days are probably behind him. But remember Reagan; he was popularly supposed not to be the brightest spark, but he turned out to have pretty good judgement. Presidents have people to do the detail for them.
Trump has zero judgement and even less empathy, only instinct and his malignant narcissism. It's hard to imagine anybody less suitable to be President. Nothing could be as ridiculous as Trump publicly trying to direct the research into COVID treatment. I hope this never dies -
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52407177
Somebody should look into what he has done right, and how did it. By the law of averages he must have done something useful. History always has something useful to tell us. But I doubt if he will be remembered for anything good.
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Maybe it is to avoid a climbdown as you say.
It must have dawned on him that this is what he will be remembered for, trying to cheat in an election, by accusing the other side of cheating. Trump too. Ironic, very.
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Trumps latest
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55407136
I wonder who he will choses as his Albert Speer.........
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Bonkers, has he nothing better to do?
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As Trump has a narcissistic personality disorder, it might be the only good executive order he's ever signed.
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>> Looks like he wants to go out all guns blazing.
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....or entirely the opposite. ;-)
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I thought someone would come up with something!
Not sure how he thinks he's going to win this one, or why he's bothering to fight this.
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There is a man with no toys left in his pram.
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Trump's legacy?
"China will overtake the US to become the world's largest economy by 2028, five years earlier than previously forecast, a report says.
The UK-based Centre for Economics and Business Research (CEBR) said China's "skilful" management of Covid-19 would boost its relative growth compared to the US and Europe in coming years."
www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-55454146
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If you had any doubts about Trumps mental and moral abilities you really need to check this out. Preferably listen to it.
edition.cnn.com/2021/01/03/politics/trump-brad-raffensperger-phone-call-transcript/index.html
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>> If you had any doubts about Trumps mental and moral abilities you really need to
>> check this out. Preferably listen to it.
>>
>> edition.cnn.com/2021/01/03/politics/trump-brad-raffensperger-phone-call-transcript/index.html
That really is quite remarkable. The media are comparing with the Watergate tapes but I think this is far worse.
I also suspect there are similar conversations with Republicans in other swing states, this is just the one that leaked.
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More shocking than remarkable. I don't know how this guy can function in business, never mind in politics.
>>I also suspect there are similar conversations with Republicans in other swing states, this is just the one that leaked.
I'm sure you're right.
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Once he's out Trump is going to be hammered from all sides. People are keeping quiet now because he is still president and has a lot of power, but when that goes and the protections of office disappear he'll be thrown to the wolves.
He knows it to and he's running scared
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So I just listened to the whole disgusting broadcast. They were bleeping a lady's name out. Then right near the end a lady was mentioned and I think they forgot to bleep it out.
Anyway the name was Stacy Abrams - all the data on the Wikipedia page en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stacey_Abrams tallies with stuff Trump said. If you read that page, there is quite a history of potential electoral irregularities in recent years in Georgia.
I'm not suggested that Trump is right, I was just surprised about the amount of dodgy dealing which seems to have gone on.
UPDATE: I just listened again to the early part and I may be wrong about the person but the fact remains that there is quite some history in Georgia.
Last edited by: smokie on Mon 4 Jan 21 at 16:42
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>> Anyway the name was Stacy Abrams - all the data on the Wikipedia page en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stacey_Abrams
Wikipedia? I thought anyone could edit that at any time to say anything they want, then you get battles over people putting it back the way it was, etc.
I'd trust it to tell me the height of Everest but not much further.
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The media is certainly reporting whatever happened with a definite anti-Trump bias.
I also understand that 10 previous US Defence Secretaries have now come out with a military force warning, as if Trump wants to mobilise them to deny Biden his presidency.
Partly based on a "no smoke without fire" philosophy , and simple observation of Trumps past pronouncements and behaviour I can only come to one conclusion::
HE IS CERTIFIABLY MAD.
Let's hope that those still around him have the good sense to keep him under some semblance of control for the next two weeks!
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He can still do stuff, such as pardons, and perhaps carrying out death sentences, refusing to sign things, making executive orders.
If they had any balls they would invoke the 25th amendment now and get him in a straitjacket. In fact they should have done it some time ago.
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Could he still press The Button, do we think?
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I wonder if there is now the possibility that someone in the chain would effectively say "you're bonkers, I'm not doing it", or whether the military would just do what they were told.
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I think this has come up a few times since he came into office. Someone else has to confirm the order, there's a bit of discussion if that means someone has to agree with him or if they merely agree that he's followed the correct process. Generally thought to be the former.
Last edited by: sooty123 on Mon 4 Jan 21 at 20:05
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>> The media is certainly reporting whatever happened with a definite anti-Trump bias.
I guess there comes a point where he's so evidently certifiable that reporting his line as having equal weight to proven fact becomes a farce.
See Global Warming for an example of giving the barking contra-factual side equal time....
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Looking like the Democrats will take both seats in Georgia meaning they'll have control of both houses. No doubt Trump will have another twitter melt down.
www.politico.com/2020-election/results/georgia/senate-runoff-map-loeffler-warnock-20210105/
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>> Looking like the Democrats will take both seats in Georgia meaning they'll have control of
>> both houses. No doubt Trump will have another twitter melt down.
>>
>>
>> www.politico.com/2020-election/results/georgia/senate-runoff-map-loeffler-warnock-20210105/
The senate would be tied, with the democrat VP having the casting vote. That means as a party you require every senator to vote along party lines. Thats unlikely to happen a lot of the time, Senators are only interested in getting their senate seat back in 5 years time, and the easiest way to do that is to get some huge publicity about some perceived issue being voted on that affects your state.
Like the UK you need a large clear majority of seats, unlike the UK you need it in both houses.
As Trump found out, the US constitution is set up essentially to make the president powerless.
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 6 Jan 21 at 09:44
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>> The senate would be tied, with the democrat VP having the casting vote. That means
>> as a party you require every senator to vote along party lines. Thats unlikely to
>> happen a lot of the time, Senators are only interested in getting their senate seat
>> back in 5 years time, and the easiest way to do that is to get
>> some huge publicity about some perceived issue being voted on that affects your state.
It doesn't seem to have worked that way for the last couple of years where the GOP had only a small Senate majority. Are the Democrats + the couple of indies less disciplined?
I'd suspect too that Biden will recognise the need to work across the aisle so odd Republican could be picked off even if their Georgia gains are limited to just the one seat already called.
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I do hope Trump blows a gasket. I won't say a blood vessel, that would be unseemly.
At the very least Trump-logic would see two Democrat victories as proof that the elections are rigged.
Last edited by: Manatee on Wed 6 Jan 21 at 11:55
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>
>> At the very least Trump-logic would see two Democrat victories as proof that the elections
>> are rigged.
>>
Of course, its all the evidence needed of a massive deep state conspiracy.
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>> I do hope Trump blows a gasket. I won't say a blood vessel, that would
>> be unseemly.
>>
>> At the very least Trump-logic would see two Democrat victories as proof that the elections
>> are rigged.
Indeed, cant possibly be that he destroyed republican faith in the election process so they didn't vote. No way will it be his fault.
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Party politics in the US seems to work very like the UK.
On relatively trivial issues, individual MPs/Senators may vote irresepctive of party lines. This generally causes little problem for either the individual or the party.
Where an issue of local concern arises, individual MPs/senators may ignore the whip (or US equivalent). Parties tend to accept the odd rebellion if does not affect the outcome.
But for critical policy, strategy, and party survival politicians will very rarely ignore party leadership. To do risks their position, but possibly the survival of the party at the next election.
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Isn't there a slightly more subtle version over here with what Private Eye calls the "revolving doors" www.private-eye.co.uk/special-reports/revolving-doors whereby ex-politicians and senior public servants are engaged on ridiculous money by a company as some spurious role, or "consultancy", usually in an area which they had responsibility for during their working life.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobbying_in_the_United_Kingdom
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Interesting thought and I have been involved in that. I think it's different [less offensive] but I'm struggling to put the difference into written word.
I'll have a go later when I have more time.
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The level of damage that the psycho Neanderthal Trump still has time to do.
www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-55561536
Far be it from me to suggest that there will be retrospective favours coming to him after he leaves the White House. Shame it's not in a box.
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I don't think it'll come to much, too many legal cases pending plus an incoming President who will probably ban fracking on federal lands. That and a glut of oil.
Last edited by: sooty123 on Wed 6 Jan 21 at 15:59
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Price of oil has been risng quite significantly for some days, surprised there's a glut
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>> Price of oil has been risng quite significantly for some days, surprised there's a glut
Suspect issue is around high demand in northern hemisphere winter plus tensions in the Arabian Gulf.
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>>around high demand in northern hemisphere
Speculation that a rolling-out vaccine will cause demand to rise significantly in a winterous Northern Hemisphere.
However, did you notice that Saudi just decided to cut production which probably reflects a lower confidence in demand recovery.
Copper is properly on the up though.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Wed 6 Jan 21 at 16:58
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Unless something startling happens today, and it probably won't, or unless something earth shattering happens in the next four years, which it probably won't, then I fully expect the US electoral scenes of the last two months to be repeated at every US election going forward.
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>> Unless something startling happens today, and it probably won't, or unless something earth shattering happens
>> in the next four years, which it probably won't, then I fully expect the US
>> electoral scenes of the last two months to be repeated at every US election going
>> forward.
And for that reason I see this as the start of the downward spiral of US global influence. No other nation could possibly take them or their claim of "freedom and democracy" seriously ever again.
Irreparably damaged they is.
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I'm not sure how much of a spiral it will prove to be, but absolutely past their peak without any doubt.
And,. as you say, probably irreparably. A part of me will uncharitably take some satisfaction in watching them accept it.
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>> I'm not sure how much of a spiral it will prove to be, but absolutely
>> past their peak without any doubt.
>>
>> And,. as you say, probably irreparably. A part of me will uncharitably take some satisfaction
>> in watching them accept it.
>>
Looks like you had a crystal ball.
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>> Irreparably damaged they is.
Bonkers isn't it. Do the Republicans really need telling they are damaging the country?
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>Bonkers isn't it. Do the Republicans really need telling they are damaging the country?
I think the message might get through when they twig that Trump's rants have lost them the Senate. In Georgia FFS!
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"Trumpism" has become a cult in the same vein as the nutty religious ones that abound. I doubt if too many of the demonstrators have much interest or understanding of politics, but Donald and his simplistic one line views on the world seem to have touched a nerve in them.
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Protestors have stormed the capital building, looks like they've gone full banana Republic.
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Or full bananas in this case.
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One person shot, in a serious condition trying to get into the chamber .
At least one IED found by the police.
The entire DC national guard mobilised and hundreds of extra police from nearby.
Unreal, not sure I've seen anything like this since the attempted coup in Turkey a few years ago.
Last edited by: sooty123 on Wed 6 Jan 21 at 21:06
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Absolutely unbelievable. I wouldn't be surprised if this didn't end with serious loss of life, bearing in mind many of the nutters Trump attracts.
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>> Absolutely unbelievable. I wouldn't be surprised if this didn't end with serious loss of life,
>> bearing in mind many of the nutters Trump attracts.
>>
I believe there is a copy cat event in kentucky ongoing.
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Incited by Trump, facilitated by the senior Republicans who have humoured him for their personal gain and to ingratiate themselves and who Trump is now slagging off. Some of those are now begging him to get the protesters to stand down.
It's surely too late to remove him to a mental hospital unless they want a bloodbath, Trump himself will presumably have to get them to disperse if there are not to be more dead people.
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Trump himself will presumably have to get them to disperse if there are not
>> to be more dead people.
>>
He's just been on twitter telling them to leave.
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Add insurrection and sedition to his charge sheet.
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>> This is not exactly dousing the fires
>>
>> twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1346928882595885058?s=20
>>
Beggars belief; he needs a straightjacket.
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Quote on CNN (ok not a known Trump support vehicle)
A White House adviser said some aides around President Donald Trump are becoming furious that the President won't do more to stop the insurrection at the Capitol.
The adviser said aides have been all but begging Trump to come out and make a statement to begin to calm the situation.
"He doesn't want to" to do more than what he is doing right now, the adviser said.
"If we could throw him to the angry mob, we'd throw him to the angry mob now," the adviser said.
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Is it possible he thinks he could seize power in a revolution?
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Right now nothing would surprise me as to what he thinks is possible.
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Both of the Georgian senate positions have gone Democrat giving them control.
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>> Right now nothing would surprise me as to what he thinks is possible.
>>
So far, what he has thought possible, and what was possible, haven't diverged much.
It's going to be a long night in Washington, but I suspect he is going to find out that that has changed dramatically.
(Biden declared some time ago that the new administration wasn't likely to pursue Trump, turning a new sheet instead; I suspect that might have disappeared as an option).
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The support from senior and elected republicans seems to be evaporating and that will presumably gather pace as the weaker-minded feel empowered to act honourably
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>>This is not exactly dousing the fires
>>twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1346928882595885058?s=20
It's been removed. Roughly what did it say?
Last edited by: No FM2R on Thu 7 Jan 21 at 01:50
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"We won the election - it was a landslide - everyone knows it, especially the other side - but you have to go home now"
Something like that.
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>> "We won the election - it was a landslide - everyone knows it, especially the
>> other side - but you have to go home now"
>>
>> Something like that.
You forgot the "well done we love you" bit.
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LOCK HIM UP. LOCK HIM UP. LOCK HIM UP
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His deputy chief of staff has tweeted this morning on his behalf to say there will be an orderly transition but repeating the "fact" that the election was stolen.
The vox pops from the protesters, there are some videos on BBC News, are depressing. Thick, deluded, almost religious in their beliefs.
The House voted 282-138 to reject objections to the election result. Who the hell are the 138?
Some way to go with this and there is much speculation about how best to kill it - I expect it will be a case of the less said the better and Trump won't be indicted for treason/sedition/insurrection as he should properly be unless he is certified insane.
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I think I heard that the Senate has now gone to 50:50 which holds some hopes that Biden's policies might be enacted..
Before the change the vocal Republican supporters where saying the Senate was going to their way of screwing Biden over as they would vote policies down.
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>>The House voted 282-138 to reject objections to the election result. Who the hell are the 138?
Are they people that believe Trump or are they people that are just pandering to their electorate?
Either way it's frightening.
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I always wondered how the Trump madness would end.
Let's hope this is the beginning of the end, not the end of the beginning.
And COVID-19 on top. Perhaps a lot of yesterday's mob will have infected each other.
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>> >>The House voted 282-138 to reject objections to the election result. Who the hell are
>> the 138?
>>
>> Are they people that believe Trump or are they people that are just pandering to
>> their electorate?
There is a significant feeling in both sides of the house that the actual election process needs to be changed. This is not something new and unheard of, it first came to the boil in the "hanging chads" election. Covid, extensive postal voting, lack of transparency, no national rules set by the supreme court around postal voting, and a deluded unscrupulous bully on a personal power trip exploiting the same, set the grounds for this nearly a year ago.
A lot of those who voted nay yesterday, were protesting, calling for a debate on change.
7 were were just out and out trump-licans, including the female senator who says she only believes in god and her glock
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Nowt to do with me of course but I'd like to see Biden set up some credible non-partisan review of the system and processes, and if necessary standardisation on a set of rules and validation procedures.
It might not prevent a repeat, and it risks turning into a gerrymandering exercise or creating accusations of one, but the credibility of the system needs to be reestablished before the next big elections.
Meanwhile I'm enjoying the prospect of a split in the GOP which McConnell is desperately trying to unite.
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>> Meanwhile I'm enjoying the prospect of a split in the GOP
I wouldn't if I were you, the split groups will be full of right wing god fearing injun killing gun toting crazies.
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>>
>> >> Meanwhile I'm enjoying the prospect of a split in the GOP
>>
>> I wouldn't if I were you, the split groups will be full of right wing
>> god fearing injun killing gun toting crazies.
>>
Indeed, there's a lot of angry people over there right now. Many think the actions last night were entirely justified in part because of the riots in the summer. If they are allowed to do it then do are we, is a common theme.
There's also a lot who are scared and angry that the Democrats (as they see it) has been taken over by a load of extremists and they aren't interested in the policies they are likely to bring in.
Lots of people on edge, I wonder if they'll be any large copy cat events. Although I did see a few small demonstrations at various stare capitals last night.
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"If they are allowed to do it then do are we, is a common theme."
It would have been reasonable, then, if yesterday's shenanigans has been met with the same treatment as was handed out to the BLM protestors. You may recall an event in June 2020 when peaceful protestors were teargassed to allow Trump his infamous photo-op, Bible in hand, in front of a church.
You can't help thinking that, had yesterday's MAGA mob consisted of mainly black people, the outcome would have been very different.
"There's also a lot who are scared and angry that the Democrats (as they see it) has been taken over by a load of extremists..."
Yes, part of the demonising of any who do not support the sacred Trump. If you're not on their side, you're an extremist on the other. No room for the centre. It's the mind-set that has led to the divisiveness in America.
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>>You can't help thinking that, had yesterday's MAGA mob consisted of mainly black people, the outcome would have been very different.
A major difference is that the BLM mob said that they were coming some time before and planning occurred and preparations were made.
However much the MAGA mob should have been expected, they weren't nor were they planned.
Nonetheless, with the current tendency for the US population to believe whatever suits them and then propogate it, I am sure the focus will be upon colour.
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>> A major difference is that the BLM mob said that they were coming some time
>> before and planning occurred and preparations were made.
>>
>> However much the MAGA mob should have been expected, they weren't nor were they planned.
Is there an identifiable difference in planning between the summer BLM protests in DC and yesterday?
The British media were reporting last week that Trump loyalists were planning attendance en masse to coincide with the confirmation by Congress of the College result. Various groups including gun rights and the Proud Boys were said to be on the guest list and it is reported that there was ample social media traffic to bear out what was being organised.
It was also expected that Trump would address them. The early absence of the National Guard and Federal Agents as at the summer event looks more than a cock up.
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The difference is that, more or less, this mob were instructed to invade the Capitol building by no less than POTUS.
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>> The early absence of the National
>> Guard and Federal Agents as at the summer event looks more than a cock up.
>>
AIUI, for DC alone, POTUS is effectively in command of the (state) National Guard, unlike the other States, where it is the Governor under normal circumstances.
That might go some way to explaining the difference in the two circumstances.
It was widely reported last night that the Secretary for Defence (who presumably has the next level authority) had declined to call out the NG, though a request had been put. It was then, at a late stage, reported that Trump had finally authorised them (though it is also reported this morning that it was actually Pence).
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>>Is there an identifiable difference in planning between the summer BLM protests in DC and yesterday?
Yes.
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Sorry, lost a chunk of my reply. Essentially and in brief 'cause I can't be a***d to type it all again;
BLM announced their intention to approach the Lincoln Memorial (Not The Capitol Building).
Trump put in place the steps taken against BLM
Most civilised people believe that Trump over-reacted.
MAGA talked about a riot/gathering/protest, but did not explicitly say they intended to storm any building, never mind the Capitol Building.
Trump was driving them
Most civilised people did not really beleive that they would invade and vandalised The Capital Building.
You kind of need to have lived with them to understand that they have an almost religious faith in the sanctity of their democracy. The fact that they would storm the centre of that democracy is quite literally beyond belief.
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Well someone's got to say it so I will.I think there was strong enough feeling over BREXIT that could have spilled into similar scenes here - on both sides. There were demos weren't there, with paint being daubed and stuff? If Farage (or ANO) had decided to whip up the frenzy then I'm sure it would have been worse.
More recently we've seen statues toppled and places having to hide bits of heritage because of the fear of angry mobs. And other civil disobedience between political extremists. I've seen it reported that people have even been fighting about wearing/not wearing a mask FFS...
I don't think we should be that surprised at America. Apart from the guns, I don't think we are necessarily that far behind.
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>> Well someone's got to say it so I will.I think there was strong enough feeling
>> over BREXIT that could have spilled into similar scenes here - on both sides. There
>> were demos weren't there, with paint being daubed and stuff? If Farage (or ANO) had
>> decided to whip up the frenzy then I'm sure it would have been worse.
I don't think on both sides holds water; if it did remainers would have been storming Parliament during the 'debate' on the trade deal last week. The more realistic scenario for action would have been if a second referendum, which seemed attainable in autumn 2019, had overturned 2016. The more so if remain won but didn't surmount the 17million leave got in 2016.
The two or three entirely peaceful People's Vote protests with hundreds of thousands of participants were exemplars of peaceful demonstration.
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>> Well someone's got to say it so I will.I think there was strong enough feeling
>> over BREXIT that could have spilled into similar scenes here - on both sides. There
>> were demos weren't there, with paint being daubed and stuff? If Farage (or ANO) had
>> decided to whip up the frenzy then I'm sure it would have been worse.
I remember watching in disbelief as Trump won the Presidency vote with all th eknowledge about his shenanigans etc. I really couldn't believe there were so many gullible Americans.
A few years later I remember thinking how the hell there are so many gullible British folk willing to vote Johnston to be PM. Yes, some of these might have been "who else could we vote for" but I do believe there are huge similarities between what we now have in the UK and what America have been through.
And if we are not careful (and so far there is no sign that we are), we are in serious danger of rapidly going down the same plughole. And, like America, there will be so many folk saying "oh we didn't see that coming".
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>> A few years later I remember thinking how the hell there are so many gullible
>> British folk willing to vote Johnston to be PM. Yes, some of these might have
>> been "who else could we vote for" but I do believe there are huge similarities
>> between what we now have in the UK and what America have been through.
Because the alternative to Boris was Comrade Corbyn.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 9 Jan 21 at 04:42
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"Because the alternative to Boris was Comrade Corbyn."
........ and Boris's mantra was that he was going to 'get Brexit done'.
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>> "Because the alternative to Boris was Comrade Corbyn."
>>
>> ........ and Boris's mantra was that he was going to 'get Brexit done'.
>>
And I think, whatever side of the fence people were previously, most were of the opinion that it just needed to get done.
Certainly I was.
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>> And I think, whatever side of the fence people were previously, most were of the
>> opinion that it just needed to get done.
>>
>> Certainly I was.
Well up to a point.
Boris told us he had an 'Oven Ready Deal'. Those who are less focussed then you or I might have understood that to mean he'd agreed not just the divorce but the ancillary stuff going forward too.
Did we really intend to deny Ulstermen access to Percy Pig?
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>>Boris told us he had an 'Oven Ready Deal'.
Didn't, and don't, believe a word the man says. But I was pretty confident he'd backed himself into a no escape "do it or bust" corner.
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Nothing of particular significance, just denigrating Johnson's character but used a word that the site regards as heinous. Not worth retyping.
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It was also expected that Trump would address them. The early absence of the National
>> Guard and Federal Agents as at the summer event looks more than a cock up.
>>
>>
>>
The NG had been mobilised before the events last night, obviously not enough of them but they were there beforehand.
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> It would have been reasonable, then, if yesterday's shenanigans has been met with the same
>> treatment as was handed out to the BLM protestors. You may recall an event in
>> June 2020 when peaceful protestors were teargassed to allow Trump his infamous photo-op, Bible in
>> hand, in front of a church.
I think they did use tear gas last to clear them from the front of the capital building.
>>
>> You can't help thinking that, had yesterday's MAGA mob consisted of mainly black people, the
>> outcome would have been very different.
Many trump supporters think the protests/riots were treated with kid gloves anyway, so it was only fair that the mob last night were as well.
No room for the
>> centre. It's the mind-set that has led to the divisiveness in America.
Absolutely, I think this is similar in terms of lines drawn to the Vietnam war and that period. Very much a clash of cultures and an utterly different mindset.
>>
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>> Nowt to do with me of course but I'd like to see Biden set up
>> some credible non-partisan review of the system and processes, and if necessary standardisation on a
>> set of rules and validation procedures.
>>
I agree but don't see how it would go anywhere. The states hold, and always have held, the power over the rules regarding elections. It was designed that way from the beginning.
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>> I agree but don't see how it would go anywhere. The states hold, and always
>> have held, the power over the rules regarding elections. It was designed that way from
>> the beginning.
Yes, at the end of the day federal government is just a place where states send a representative.
It was never set up from top down, like ours, but from bottom up, its developed as times evolved and states joined "the union".
Interestingly, Puerto Rico citizens want to be upgraded from a territory to a state, but the federal executive - ie presidents in power, are doing everything they can to try and prevent it.
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Looks like they could "depose" him constitutionally ... whether they will is another matter.
"Discussions are focusing on the 25th Amendment of the US Constitution, which allows for a transfer of power from the president to the vice-president, either temporarily or permanently."
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55571964
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He's still got his finger on the nuclear button. After yesterday, I hope they do use the 25th. At least that will remove the risk for a couple of weeks and he can always appeal afterwards.
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>> He's still got his finger on the nuclear button. After yesterday, I hope they do
>> use the 25th. At least that will remove the risk for a couple of weeks
>> and he can always appeal afterwards.
His button is useless unless the secretary of defence agrees with the order
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>>
>> His button is useless unless the secretary of defence agrees with the order
>>
...the acting Secretary of Defense is an incumbent of less than 2 months' service who appears to be an absolute acolyte of Trump, appointed entirely for his ability to toe the line, and has specifically (by name) been warned by a large number of former Secretaries of Defense not to get involved in a military coup.........
Nothing to worry about there, then......
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"Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg has announced that Trump's account will be suspended for the remainder of his term in office.
"We believe the risks of allowing the president to continue to use our service during this period are simply too great," he wrote in a statement."
This is *hugely* significant in terms of precedence.
US Companies have acted to prevent a sitting President using their software and communicating on their platform.
That is huge. Ok, Trump may be a dangerous pyscho t***, but nonetheless Zuckerberg has just set his company above the President of the US and announced that they will decide what the President may or may not say.
The fact that I may or may not agree with them, or that they may or may not be correct, is not relevant.
If one believes that a t*** can subvert the Presidency then one better also assume that in the future a psycho CEO can subvert Facebook.
Trump wanted to change the world. I genuinely believe that he has.
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>> If one believes that a t*** can subvert the Presidency then one better also assume
>> that in the future a psycho CEO can subvert Facebook.
Oh dear, I suspect he may have signed his own death warrant. Expect anti trust and or curbs on social media to follow shortly. Regardless of the president in power.
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Twiiter have followed up fb ban, by banning trump from twitter permanently.
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I'm not a great Jimmy Fallon fan, as it happens.
But the fact that he would make this presentation speaks volumes. More than anything else it is a sign that not only does he believe that Trump has lost his power, he believes that his audience believes that Trump has lost his power.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=511SdWsvE5U&feature=emb_logo
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Republican Ruben Gallego emotionally calls on the Republicans to do the right thing.
twitter.com/RepRubenGallego
Republican Matt Gaetz goes a slightly different way...
"“...the Washington Times has just reported some pretty compelling evidence from a facial-recognition company showing that some of the people who breached the Capitol today were not Trump supporters. They were masquerading as Trump supporters. And in fact, they were members of the violent terrorist group, antifa,” Gaetz said."
floridapolitics.com/archives/392939-matt-gaetz-blames-antifa-democrats-rhetoric-for-capitol-attack-defends-donald-trump
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The bloke sitting on the speakers chair has been positively identified as a leading Q Anon supporter. The Horn Helmet and face paint trademark was a dead giveaway.
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Just watched Biden speaking on Outside Source, BBC News channel.
He laid in to Trump at length, and looked as if he was suppressing anger. He criticised him for using the Attorney General as his personal lawyer, and for trying to control the Supreme Court, which he thanked for upholding the law and rejecting over 60 attempts to challenge a free and fair election.
There's quite a bandwagon now for removing Trump, but it would depend on Pence and something like a 2/3 majority of the cabinet. Chuck Schumer has said if the the VP and cabinet don't stand up, then Congress must reconvene and impeach.
I don't think either is likely given the short time Trump has left but the straitjacket would be the cherry on the cake.
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We don't know what goes on behind closed doors.
I would hope that the Republican Party will have made it clear that Trump either toes the line for the next two weeks, or becomes the first president to be removed from power for demonstrable mental instability, lack of judgement and character flaws.
However much Trump may think the election was rigged, if the alternative is permanent dishonour and humiliation he may go quietly.
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>>
>> However much Trump may think the election was rigged, if the alternative is permanent dishonour
>> and humiliation he may go quietly.
>>
I think that would be a real mistake. If he is allowed to go quietly, it sends the message that it's OK to act like a despot, as long as you repent at the appropriate time.
He should be sacked by whatever legal means are available.
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> I think that would be a real mistake. If he is allowed to go quietly,
>> it sends the message that it's OK to act like a despot, as long as
>> you repent at the appropriate time.
>>
>> He should be sacked by whatever legal means are available.
>>
I disagree, unless we want the other night to look like a pleasant stroll in the park. Chuck him out and their will be an explosion of anger I doubt anyone has seen it in a long time. Anyway it'll just feed he's craving for attention. Best to just ignore him.
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To be forgiven one must confess one's sins.
He needs to do that at the very minimum, and undertake to stay away from politics and commentary thereon. Then he can have his own cell.
Otherwise, the drop.
Mad or bad? Madder people than him are locked up for far less heinous behaviour every day.
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Latest statement from trump is very conciliatory and not at all trumpish
1/ Someone has a had a quiet word in his shell like telling him his future is up sheet creek
2/ He realised himself that his future is up sheet creek.
Both ideas quite seem so unlikely to be extraordinary
1/ Someone outside his gang of mad cronies that he listened too and took advice
2/ He realised he won't be able to bully & bluster his way out of this going forward and his brand could be damaged.
I completely dismissed out of hand that he might have a conscience
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>> Latest statement from trump is very conciliatory and not at all trumpish
It was a vaguely normal speech, I think only the second major speech he's given sounding like a president rather than his normal mangled wibble.
>>
>> 2/ He realised he won't be able to bully & bluster his way out of
>> this going forward and his brand could be damaged.
>>
I'm going with this option. All about the money.
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He's apparently thinking of pardoning himself and his cronies.
www.nytimes.com/2021/01/07/us/politics/trump-self-pardon.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage
I read somewhere yesterday that one of his sons or son-in-laws said that no matter what happens, Trump or one of them would be standing at the next election.
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Pardoning yourself, proper banana republic stuff.
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>> I read somewhere yesterday that one of his sons or son-in-laws said that no matter
>> what happens, Trump or one of them would be standing at the next election.
That needs money. Serious Serious money. The trump organisation will shortly be in serious financial trouble with many mortgages and loans due. It needs friendly support to get through it, it now wont be coming. They raised 2-300 million in the "stop the steal" scam. Virtually none of the money was spent on the legal fight, most has been siphoned away into a fund, claimed to be to fight another election, most of that will dispear before the next presidential race.
In short, the Trumps wont have the money. And even the trump supporters hate his son(s in law)
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missed edit: quick check reveals the democrat party had spent nearly 8 billion dollars by october.
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>> It was a vaguely normal speech, I think only the second major speech he's given
>> sounding like a president rather than his normal mangled wibble.
Therefore he definitely didn't write it or draft it, and as he thinks he knows better than everybody else he must have been coerced.
His own side are now trying to reduce the backlash by making him behaving, presumably, as Mark says, by threat of removal possibly by straitjacket.
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I see Trump supporters are saying the video must have been a deepfake.
I dunno. I had a go at coding some deepfake stuff in the week. I got Trump talking with the Mona Lisa's head easily enough, but my attempt to get the Mona Lisa's head onto Jenny Agutter's body in a clip from Walkabout was a dismal failure.
Still, it passed a wet morning.
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>> Latest statement from trump is very conciliatory and not at all trumpish
Jon Sopel on the Today programme likened in to a hostage video; he's apparently forced to read words from a script in a way that bears no relationship to his usual manner of speech.
All that's missing is the orange jump suit.
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www.businessinsider.com/trump-attempted-coup-federal-law-enforcement-capitol-police-2021-1?r=US&IR=T
Not a website I normally read, but on the face seems fairly serious.
I'm not sure I believe it, but with trump who knows what he's thinking?
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That's an interesting theory - not sure I really go along with it purely because it would seem implausible that he'd get away with it in a country like the US - but they make a good case!
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Trump has now condemned the violence at the Capitol and conceded that Biden will be sworn in on January 20th.
'The president said he was "outraged" by Wednesday's "heinous" attack...' (Sky News)
Yeah, right.
'...the president stressed that his priority is now arranging for an orderly transition to a new administration - and said Mr Biden will be sworn in on 20 January.' (Sky News)
But it may show he's not prepared to try anything like this again in the days he has left.
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It is no longer worth listening to what he says. It is what he does that counts.
If invoked, 25th Amendment may mean an early departure but could promopt a severe (armed?) response from the Trump nutter brigade.
Do nothing and all may now pass peacefully - even if there are problems they are unlikely to be worse than invoking the 25th Amendment.
Right now it is simply the lesser of two evils. Whether Trump has a worthwhile brand or the funds going forward is pure speculation. Whether he can even pardon himself and family when they have not been charged with anything (yet) is debatable.
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I'm guessing that he didn't write that speech, and that giving it was the price of preventing an ignominious end to his Presidency and retaining the Republican Party's protection for the next two weeks.
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>> I'm guessing that he didn't write that speech, and that giving it was the price
>> of preventing an ignominious end to his Presidency and retaining the Republican Party's protection for
>> the next two weeks.
That would be my guess too, and they will have done it to avoid further damage to the party, not for Trump's sake. Such integrity. McConnell now deplores the challenges to the election after having supported them himself
While it's good to see the worms turning now, Pence, McConnell and the rest of the sleazebags have gone along with this lunatic for four years. I hope enough of the electorate remember this and keep them out of power for a long time, but that never seems to happen.
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>> www.businessinsider.com/trump-attempted-coup-federal-law-enforcement-capitol-police-2021-1?r=US&IR=T
>>
>> Not a website I normally read, but on the face seems fairly serious.
>>
>> I'm not sure I believe it, but with trump who knows what he's thinking?
He may have thought thats what he was doing, I think he thought he could genuinely change the result in the senate by "public pressure".
For a proper attempted coup, you need the military with you. He didnt plan that well enough, not enough patsies in the pentagon.
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"To all of those who have asked, I will not be going to the Inauguration on January 20th,"
Trump wrote on Twitter.
There was a suggestion that the day before he would use AF1 one last time to go to his Miami pad to play golf.
The president said he would not be attending shortly after claiming his supporters would have a "giant voice long into the future".
Mr Trump wrote on Twitter: "The 75,000,000 great American Patriots who voted for me, AMERICA FIRST, and MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN, will have a GIANT VOICE long into the future. They will not be disrespected or treated unfairly in any way, shape or form!!!"
Vice President Mike Pence is planning to attend the inauguration of Joe Biden but is waiting on an invitation, a source close to him confirmed
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I don't think anyone is surprised about that, not really a gracious loser is he.
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"not really a gracious loser is he."
But, let's face it, losing graciously is rather unfashionable at the moment, isn't it. Just think, if Trump and his supporters whinged on for as long as the remainers, they’d have another election to contend with before they'd finished whinging about the last one!
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>> "not really a gracious loser is he."
>>
>> But, let's face it, losing graciously is rather unfashionable at the moment, isn't it. Just
>> think, if Trump and his supporters whinged on for as long as the remainers, they’d
>> have another election to contend with before they'd finished whinging about the last one!
Perhaps the Remainer whinging will stop when the damage drops below 100 billion a year.
Last edited by: Manatee on Fri 8 Jan 21 at 22:55
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>> "not really a gracious loser is he."
>>
>> But, let's face it, losing graciously is rather unfashionable at the moment, isn't it. Just
>> think, if Trump and his supporters whinged on for as long as the remainers, they'd
>> have another election to contend with before they'd finished whinging about the last one!
As far as I can see you're pretty much the only one here trying to drive a wedge back in over a referendum that was 4 years ago. People voted how they wished to vote, the vote was for Brexit and Brexit has now happened.
Why do you think that bearing that level of bitterness and resentment over something which is past, and something which in any case gave you the result you desired, is helpful?
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>> "not really a gracious loser is he."
>>
>> But, let's face it, losing graciously is rather unfashionable at the moment, isn't it. Just
>> think, if Trump and his supporters whinged on for as long as the remainers, they’d
>> have another election to contend with before they'd finished whinging about the last one!
Says the brexiteer still whinging about the remainers.....
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..I can genuinely find tragedy in many deaths, even those that, at first glance might appear to be rather deserved (there's usually a back story there somewhere).
It's therefore with just a little shame I have to admit that there's a part of me, deep down, that really wants this (of questionable provenance) to be true:
twitter.com/TheTweetOfGod/status/1347603666228834304
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>> ..I can genuinely find tragedy in many deaths, even those that, at first glance might
>> appear to be rather deserved (there's usually a back story there somewhere).
>>
>> It's therefore with just a little shame I have to admit that there's a part
>> of me, deep down, that really wants this (of questionable provenance) to be true:
>>
>> twitter.com/TheTweetOfGod/status/1347603666228834304
>>
Sounds more like some kinky sex game gone wrong.
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Do these people come from the same planet as the rest of us, or have they been sneaked in from somewhere else?
www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/09/ashli-babbitt-capitol-mob-trump-qanon-conspiracy-theory
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Since the events at the Capitol, everyone has made a complete bawles up in dealing with Trump. He was isolated, humiliated, bereft of friends with influence, no support from any part of the Washington machine The general US public was disgusted. Beaten he was.
The attempt to impeach him, the banning of his social media outlets has made him as a martyr with all the fanaticism that brings.
Should have just been ignored.
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>> Since the events at the Capitol, everyone has made a complete bawles up in dealing
>> with Trump. He was isolated, humiliated, bereft of friends with influence, no support from any
>> part of the Washington machine The general US public was disgusted. Beaten he was.
>>
>> The attempt to impeach him, the banning of his social media outlets has made him
>> as a martyr with all the fanaticism that brings.
>>
>>
>> Should have just been ignored.
>>
Agreed. Should have been left to stew lonely in his own s*** while the world watched.
But when has a politician ever ignored a vulnerable opponent, and the Democrats surely weren't going to be the first.
Politicians, *all* politicians, always kick a man when he's down. It's the only the that they're brave enough.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sat 9 Jan 21 at 17:40
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>> Do these people come from the same planet as the rest of us, or have
>> they been sneaked in from somewhere else?
>>
>> www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/09/ashli-babbitt-capitol-mob-trump-qanon-conspiracy-theory
>>
I think people might well look on it as a form of mass hysteria. However there's a lot of people in the US that view mainstream politians as from another plant and totally disconnected from their lives and viewpoint.
How you solve that I've no idea, first step is stop seeing each other as the enemy, be a good start anyway.
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I can understand people felling left behind and ignored, but the massive paedophile ring that was "About to be exposed by Trump" puts those people firmly into the lunatic camp.
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I think with marches like that one there's a broad range of ideas and people.
The annoyed, the angry, the nutters, Q anon weirdos, the professional protesters right through to foreign intelligence agents.
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25th Amendment or impeachment would keep him in the public eye and provide fuel and inspiration for the Trump nutters. And the attempt may fail anyway!
But if he is unable to communicate with anyone - Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and most of the written and TV media have either banned him or are anti Trump.
Will the Trump nutters forget that he exists (intellectuallly they are outclassed by most 4 legged mammals) or find another battle to fight. No public exposure is like sudden death to a politician - they become yesterdays person, what happened to ...........
Last edited by: Terry on Sat 9 Jan 21 at 19:30
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>>the Trump nutters
They have new cause now, Free Speech. I saw and heard one earlier saying what comes next is either civil war or a revolution.
Never mind that it doesn't exist as they suppose and never has. No one has the right to shout "Fire!" in a crowded theatre, or presumably to incite an invasion of the leglisative chamber.
In any case, Twitter hasn't gagged him. It has just declined to be the channel for his untruths and seditious talk.
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News just trending!
Mexico have said that they will pay for the wall. Canada have said that they want one too.
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>> News just trending!
>>
>> Mexico have said that they will pay for the wall. Canada have said that they
>> want one too.
>>
:-D
Last edited by: zippy on Sun 10 Jan 21 at 00:57
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CNN showed clips of Trumps speech just before it all kicked off at the Capitol.
He said the word "fight" several times.
It bought to mind Derren Brown and his methods of behaviour control.
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The irony... - No FM2R
