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Last edited by: VxFan on Sun 22 Mar 20 at 20:58
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Some good news.
BP have offered free fuel from petrol forecourts to the emergency services organisations.
Vehicles should fill up using their fuel cards to pay and BP have said that they will pick up the tab.
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Its getting a right old hammering, the net that is.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-51968302
I have noticed that my daytime service is lower than normal, extended ping times, and my download speed down to under 100Mbbs
Its been resilient tho! (unless your name is ocado)
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 19 Mar 20 at 20:40
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>>Its getting a right old hammering, the net that is
Was talking to our IT chief and he said that the number of cyberattack attempts over the past week have rocketed.
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>> >>Its getting a right old hammering, the net that is
>>
>> Was talking to our IT chief and he said that the number of cyberattack attempts
>> over the past week have rocketed.
My router was flooded over night from a range of addresses in the same subnet (probably spoofed ip addresses).It got very upset and fell into a "I cant cope" loop, had to reboot it this morning
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I have mentioned our young God Daughter elsewhere on this site.
She has stage 4 cancer and was readmitted to hospital last week as an emergency case.
Her treatment at a London hospital has been cancelled.
Only one visitor is allowed for her full stay and understandably that's her husband. Unfortunately her child, parents, wider family and friends are now not permitted to visit.
The situation is totally understandable. The hospital is minimising risks. The parents are distraught though and desperately want to see her.
This is not a dig at the NHS. They are minimising risks. Just a cathartic ramble.
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>> This is not a dig at the NHS. They are minimising risks. Just a cathartic
>> ramble.
They are, My surveillance colonoscopy has been cancelled, and my post up surgical review will now be with the consultant over the phone. All perfectly understandable and sensible. I am glad my stoma reversal happened when it did, planned for three months later it, too would have been canned and I could not really have had any complaint over that.
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Re my comment about wage support above:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51969708
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Ultimately Boris is only the figurehead and facilitating the press briefings. The 'experts' are either side of him and in the background.
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>> Imagine we'd had Corbyn in control at this time!!! Or even May? Oh
>> dear God.
Basically we need a communicator who is listening to the experts and ensuring their advice is heeded and acted upon.
May, unless suddenly trained out of 'bot' mode, would have failed the communicator test. So, though she was never in running, would Diane Abbott.
Genuinely puzzled why you think Corbyn would not have risen to the task. He was pretty poor at the Q&A and addressing the nation thing when first elected but by the 2017 election he'd nailed it (qv the TV debate that May flunked on).
Whether the media would have treated him in same way they're now treating Boris is another question.
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 20 Mar 20 at 13:55
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>> so, though she was never in running, would Diane Abbott.
Talking of Dianne Abbott, on a lighter note
i.ibb.co/H4hLr3f/diane.jpg
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>>Genuinely puzzled why you think Corbyn would not have risen to the task.
Because he was a rubbish leader. Couldn't lead his own party, couldn't listen to anyone, and couldn't talk with conviction about anything more than a very small number of subjects.
Thank goodness he no longer leads anything, he's now back to his old profession of criticizing everything without having to deal with real world practicalities.
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>> Because he was a rubbish leader. Couldn't lead his own party, couldn't listen to anyone,
>> and couldn't talk with conviction about anything more than a very small number of subjects.
Yeah, but apart from that?
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>> Yeah, but apart from that?
There’s also his attitude, typical of labour and some of their supporters, of do as I say, not as I do. He should be self isolating as a > 70 year old, but has explicitly said he won’t be. What’s sort of message does that send? 5 months and they still haven’t found a new leader!!
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 20 Mar 20 at 13:46
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>> There’s also his attitude, typical of labour and some of their supporters, of do as
>> I say, not as I do. He should be self isolating as a > 70
>> year old, but has explicitly said he won’t be.
70 is a benchmark. Why would an apparently fit man who is 70 but not 71 and who, for now holds the office of Leader of Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition, necessarily comply with that? No different to when he was 68.
A BMI of 40+is similarly a benchmark; it's specifically mentioned in the Governments Covid guidance for employers. Led to some discussion in the office.....
If you're active, exercise regularly and can (say) walk up the six flights of stairs to the office without getting out of breath then you Keep Calm and Carry on even if BMI is 45. If you're a lazy, lardy heavy smoker and use the lift to avoid arriving on floor three gasping your mileage may vary.
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Is there anything you will not say to defend a Labour politician?
Like I said, he is a rubbish leader setting an example in this case winch says "if you feel ok you can ignore the guidelines".
What a complete wally that man is.
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 20 Mar 20 at 19:03
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>> Is there anything you will not say to defend a Labour politician?
The question asked was, in effect, could Corbyn have risen to the occasion.
I think the answer is yes but, other than to counter argument the other way, I'm not defending him. He's been carp at leading his party and should have gone 10 months ago when May and Cable stepped down.
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>>The question asked was, in effect, could Corbyn have risen to the occasion.
No it wasn't. I said that we were lucky not to have him as a leader. No question asked.
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> 70 is a benchmark. Why would an apparently fit man who is 70 but not
>> 71 and who, for now holds the office of Leader of Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition,
>> necessarily comply with that? No different to when he was 68.
Not sure that gov advice came with a 70+ should self isolate 'unless you're Labour MP/quite fit for your age etc?'
Last edited by: sooty123 on Fri 20 Mar 20 at 13:31
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>> Not sure that gov advice came with a 70+ should self isolate 'unless you're Labour
>> MP/quite fit for your age etc?'
The word is should not must. There is nothing magic about the day you enter your eighth decade. There is an element of individual discretion there. If you're quite fit for your age then no reason to treat it as an instruction.
My neighbour, a fit and active 71 was, in her own words, 'apoplectic' at idea of being instructed to self isolate.
In fact the terminology has been somewhat fluid. Advice seems to be that while we should all practice 'social distancing' those in the higher risk category should be particularly stringent.
www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-guidance-on-social-distancing-and-for-vulnerable-people/guidance-on-social-distancing-for-everyone-in-the-uk-and-protecting-older-people-and-vulnerable-adults
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>> In fact the terminology has been somewhat fluid. Advice seems to be that while we
>> should all practice 'social distancing' those in the higher risk category should be particularly stringent.
Looks pretty obvious to me, 'We are advising those who are at increased risk of severe illness from coronavirus (COVID-19) to be particularly stringent in following social distancing measures.'
The CMO was pretty clear about the wording that it's strongly advised however it isn't a legally enforced so can't quite go to must. But was clear about everyone on that list is to do as described no exception, the PM said the same.
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 20 Mar 20 at 18:43
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OK so 70 is arbitrary.
It's not just about how he feels. The oldies could sink the NHS on their own if they get ill in numbers, even though they will be the ones parked on camp beds in requisitioned warehouses without ventilators.
I think he'll self-isolate anyway when instructed. Defying official advice and expecting anybody to listen to him would be plain stupid.
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>> There’s also his attitude, typical of labour and some of their supporters, of do as
>> I say, not as I do. He should be self isolating as a > 70
>> year old, but has explicitly said he won’t be. What’s sort of message does that
>> send? 5 months and they still haven’t found a new leader!!
He's an irrelevance, should have gone sooner. Saying you'll go and not going is just daft.
Voting ends 4 April. It will be Starmer, with Rayner as deputy.
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>> Genuinely puzzled why you think Corbyn would not have risen to the task.
I am genuinely puzzled why you are genuinely puzzled.
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>> I am genuinely puzzled why you are genuinely puzzled.
I think much of what Mark says about rubbish leader applied equally to Boris before the election. He couldn't get legislation through, looked a complete clot over 'dying in a ditch' rather than extend the Brexit deadline, got caught out by the Supreme Court unlawfully proroguing parliament, threw away his majority etc. Never mind his conduct during the election.
Different now because he's got an army of yes men/women many of whom are still gobsmacked at actually being elected.
The question is not whether Corbyn was a poor leader of Labour, he was and the sentence above sets out the consequences, but whether he could have performed as well in shoes of PM in current circumstances.
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>>I think much of what Mark says about rubbish leader applied equally to Boris before the election.
As a person who shouts "whataboutery" at every conceivable opportunity, that seems a bit rich.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Fri 20 Mar 20 at 13:35
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I know you've always been one eyed when it comes to politics and admitted as such, but that post comes across as pretty bitter.
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>> I know you've always been one eyed when it comes to politics and admitted as
>> such, but that post comes across as pretty bitter.
Which post is that?
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>> Which post is that?
The one at 13.33
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 20 Mar 20 at 18:58
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>> Which post is that?
Depending on the device you're using to browse the forum, use the arrow at the left of the subject header to pinpoint the post in which it was in reply to.
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>> >> Which post is that?
>>
>> Depending on the device you're using to browse the forum, use the arrow at the
>> left of the subject header to pinpoint the post in which it was in reply
>> to.
CBA
If posters quoted the name of the poster, or a clip from the post, it would make life so much easier.
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snip, not really necessary to quote everything
>> If posters quoted the name of the poster, or a clip from the post, it
>> would make life so much easier.
So CBA you posted twice about it ;)
Anyway blame the forum software not me!
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 21 Mar 20 at 21:23
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>> So CBA you posted twice about it ;)
>>
>> Anyway blame the forum software not me!
The first CBA was replying to the post.
The second CBA was replying to the response.
This is the third CBA responding to your reply. Heavens above!
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>> CBA
Perhaps they can't be either.
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>> >> I am genuinely puzzled why you are genuinely puzzled.
>>
>> I think much of what Mark says about rubbish leader applied equally to Boris before
>> the election. He couldn't get legislation through, looked a complete clot over 'dying in a
>> ditch' rather than extend the Brexit deadline, got caught out by the Supreme Court unlawfully
>> proroguing parliament, threw away his majority etc. Never mind his conduct during the election.
And then suddenly had a landslide in labour heartlands because loyal labour voters throught Corbyn was a berk because he couldn't make a decision. He had no bottle.
I can imagine Corbyn on TV now, standing there. "This expert on my right says this, this one on my left says the other, I'll let you make up your own minds"
Bojo is a berk as well, but appears to have a plan, and its not his nor the swivelled eyed loons, so thats good. Corbyn couldn't sell toilet rolls to a bloke on the bog.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 20 Mar 20 at 13:42
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>> Bojo is a berk as well, but appears to have a plan, and its not
>> his nor the swivelled eyed loons, so thats good. Corbyn couldn't sell toilet rolls to
>> a bloke on the bog.
Talking of which, the Tory SEL's seem to have shut up. Another silver cloud moment.
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I see that there's now a scheme to give government grants to keep paying wages. We've been overwhelmed at work with people laid off or expecting to be laid off.
Still nothing for the self employed though eg lifting the Minimum Income Floor in Universal Credit.
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>> Still nothing for the self employed though eg lifting the Minimum Income Floor in Universal
>> Credit.
Looking at announcements for today the MIF has been suspended for at least some cases.
Let's see the detail.
I have to say that Rishi Sunak is looking far more impressive than I thought he could when he was appointed. Boris might need to watch his own back.......
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Fri 20 Mar 20 at 20:31
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>>
>> I have to say that Rishi Sunak is looking far more impressive than I thought
>> he could when he was appointed. ......
>>
...he has the benefit of heading a department that (regardless of what you may think of overall policy) has been better focused and led over the duration of the past Tory governments than any of the others......
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>..he has the benefit of heading a department that (regardless of what you may think
>> of overall policy) has been better focused and led over the duration of the past
>> Tory governments than any of the others......
And he has only one single goal, save the economy, and hes been given the keys to every piggy bank available to do it, no justification, no questions asked.
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>> And he has only one single goal, save the economy, and hes been given the
>> keys to every piggy bank available to do it, no justification, no questions asked.
>>
It's medicine that we probably do need to take, but I suspect we will be paying for it for decades.
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>> It's medicine that we probably do need to take, but I suspect we will be
>> paying for it for decades.
I'd like to think that people like Branson will pay their share especially if he gets a billion or two for his airline.
But I suppose they'll take it from the poor people again.
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We have very vulnerable people in our house. We are trying to distance ourselves from others and apart from two short trips haven't left the house for a couple of weeks now.
Sainsburys let us down last night by cancelling a delivery and simply said re-book. Well, you try . . . .
I had to go out to get fresh veg today from small local shops (forget the big supermarkets) and tried to avoid ignorant selfish people as much as possible. The good news is that there's plenty of fresh food about, but the shops are full of morons.
I did not enter at least 4 shops because of crowding and in the one I did there were still people huffing and puffing and standing within inches of me.
All the health information out there is just being ignored. I think we are looking at compulsion but libertarian Boris hasn't got the will to do it.
I'm not going out again and could ask family and neighbours but will first now try to order from one of the several veg delivery firms, but at a price. Money just doesn't matter anymore.
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 20 Mar 20 at 13:50
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Unbelievably pubs and clubs in city centres are still open and packed!
Compulsory closure should be required.
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>> Unbelievably pubs and clubs in city centres are still open and packed!
>>
>> Compulsory closure should be required.
I subscribe more to the idea of locking everybody in there and letting out the survivors about 4 months from now. If there are any.
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Its is, but it misses the point everyone makes. Northern Italy is unique. An aged population, large family groups all localised, spread there would be fast and because of the population age,. deadly.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 20 Mar 20 at 13:45
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Friends children (early 20s) are stuck in Honduras and apparently the situation is deteriorating rapidly.
Reported thugs roaming hotel openly stealing from guests.
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>> Friends children (early 20s) are stuck in Honduras and apparently the situation is deteriorating rapidly.
>>
>>
>> Reported thugs roaming hotel openly stealing from guests.
That place is a basket case at the best of times. Are they inside and reasonably safe?
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Wifey has just had the call to arms. Despite her registration being lapsed more than the indicated three years, (only just to be fair) she has just had the email from the NMC to go back to nursing.
The annual registration fee is being waved as is pre requisite minimum practice hours in the previous 12 month
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 20 Mar 20 at 16:54
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Just watching the 5pm briefing, the Chancellor isn't messing about at the edges. Fair play to him.
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>>the Chancellor isn't messing about at the edges. Fair play to him.
Absolutely - always nice to see them listening to me.
The alternative doesn't bear thinking about.
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" Absolutely - always nice to see them listening to me. "
Didn't listen to me though. No action to stop the huffers and puffers in queues. No enforced food rationing, no army aid to deliver food to care homes without it.
OK, plenty of good measures IMHO. But he didn't go far enough.
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> Didn't listen to me though. No action to stop the huffers and puffers in queues.
>> No enforced food rationing, no army aid to deliver food to care homes without it.
>>
>> OK, plenty of good measures IMHO. But he didn't go far enough.
>>
I'm not sure you can enforce how many people queue outside a shop? But perhaps they should be more obvious signs to at least get people to stand a reasonable distance apart.
The supermarkets are already limiting food items.
Last edited by: sooty123 on Fri 20 Mar 20 at 18:30
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>> Wifey has just had the call to arms. Despite her registration being lapsed more than
>> the indicated three years, (only just to be fair) she has just had the email
>> from the NMC to go back to nursing.
Just looked at all the follow up information and process. Lots of Q&A links, well planned and well thought out process for assimilating staff back in quickly, quick chat with old friends still in, reveals plans already afoot for the extra staff, this is not a written on the back of a fag packet plan, nor was it just developed in 3 weeks, This is clearly a long term, annually reviewed resilience / emergency plan.
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>> That place is a basket case at the best of times. Are they inside and
>> reasonably safe?
They are now. Hotel has upped security. They weren't on hols. Some NGO aid project.
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 20 Mar 20 at 19:01
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>> Its is, but it misses the point everyone makes. Northern Italy is unique. An aged
>> population, large family groups all localised, spread there would be fast and because of the
>> population age,. deadly.
>>
I'd assume that's why Madrid seems to have been hit hard compared to the rest of Spain.
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One reason for the strict clampdown on movement on the northern Costa Blanca was because lots of more affluent Madrid natives got out of the city and headed to their second homes, bringing CV with them. Traffic jams leaving the city by all accounts .....all this info from local police who’ve been talking to business owners.
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Sigh, this is getting as bad as some of the Brexit threads.
I've removed some posts from this thread. Sorry if some innocent posts have been removed during the cull. Blame the people who cannot conduct a discussion in a rational manner and feel they must wave their willies to get their point across.
Please stop the personal abuse toward one another.
Please stop the swearing, or trying to evade the swear filter with acronyms, adding or removing extra letters, rhyming slang, etc.
No more warnings will be given. A repeat of any of the above will simply result in the post(s) being removed.
Thank you.
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They've done the right thing, maintaining wages and propping employers up Yes there will be people taking advantage particularly with no time to set it up, but there's a better chance of having those jobs and businesses when we lift the measures, whenever that is, then we'll get the payback.
It won't be perfect, but what is?
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I was in lockdown in Spain until Wednesdays unscheduled repatriation flight. After being cooped up on the aircraft, the closest physical contact I’d had with a large group of people in 3 months, I’m now self isolating at home with neighbours leaving food on my doorstep, although living in a rural area I can pop out for walks and not meet anyone.
The pal I left behind in Spain who decided he didn’t want the inconvenience of being repatriated to a different airport and is now flying home today, recently asked me to go out and buy him certain supplies. I declined, stressed that in everybody’s interest after returning from Spain it was important I self isolate, and told him to get another friend to go out and buy his stuff. Which wasn’t vitally important ( non foodstuff).
Seemed like the right course of action....hope paranoia isn’t taking over!
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>> I was in lockdown in Spain until Wednesdays unscheduled repatriation flight.
Looks as though Jet 2 are pulling the stops out on repatriation flights today - at least 6 en route to ALC. Others to Canaries, Alps and Antalya.
Think today is last day though. Grounded then until April and probably a lot longer.
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I’ve stressed to him the importance of getting to ALC early, even if the airport is quiet. make allowances for a puncture, being stopped by the Guardia Civil, longer than normal refuelling of hire car and only 1 passenger at a time using the off site car rental shuttle buses.
He regrets not flying home with me on Wednesday, inconvenient as the change of airport was.
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As our holiday in a few weeks time is looking very unlikely, we contacted the booking site, they've given us 12 month credit on the whole price of the holiday. I think that's fair enough.
Anyone else having to change their holiday plans?
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The London congestion and emission zones have been scrapped from Monday so that key workers can use them FoC.
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Yes. If the forecast is looking good I might go backpacking and camp on my lawn. If less favourable I’ll put my sleeping mat in the living room. It will be a change of scene.
The rented cottage near Abergavenny in mid April is out. It’s been years since I walked in that part of the world...8 of us were going.
Middle two weeks of May taking my old mum back to Spain. Postponed indefinitely. Paid up front.
Late June early July I’d organised a walking holiday for a large group around the coast paths of Jersey & Guernsey. Not going to happen
Return to Spain end September through early November (6 weeks +) hopefully with walking friends coming and going. Who knows, I’ve paid in full up front.
The good news is that the Spanish family owned rental company I use own all their rental properties bar one, so are unlikely to cease trading unless they are heavily mortgaged, and have already told me that dates can be changed as and when I return to Spain without charge. And I paid up front in full when the exchange rate was €1.20 so some consolation.
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"Anyone else having to change their holiday plans?"
With our planned trip to Rioja in May already cancelled and our Baltic cruise in June (which I mentioned in an earlier volume) looking shakier by the day, I have decided to sow tomato seeds this year after all. In fact, I aim to go further and get my son to come and dig up our mothballed veggie patch upon which I originally planned to place a couple of raised veggie-beds. Developing those beds can be deferred to a time when things have settled down a bit.
With the company's fleet either in port or returning to port, can anyone on here envisage a cruise ship leaving this country on June 23rd? It's poo and it happens, we just shrug our shoulders and accept it.
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>> Anyone else having to change their holiday plans?
We're booked for a fortnight on Harris May/June. Final balance in about 3 weeks. Apart from probability of lock down there's issue of overnights up/down route and extent to which islanders may prefer to avoid people potentially importing the virus,
E mailing cottage owner is on my to do for this weekend.
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Coming back from Chorley yesterday, the M6 from M61 junction north-bound was almost solid! - looks like folk are exodusing from the big cities to the lakes and Scotland before they get locked down altogether!
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One or two holiday arrangements may have to change, apart from the Portuguese trip we just arrived back from early this am, having cut 2 weeks off holiday.
This afternoon will be trying to cancel hotels etc on 3 wk Europe driving hol scheduled for late April. All booked and paid for.
SWMBO not expecting to go on 11 day hol with mate to Corfu in mid May.
Hoping to get refund of rather expensive hotel night at mate's daughter's wedding in late May, if still problems at that time.
Then we have a week booked and paid for in Northumberland in June.
I'm off to a music weekend already paid for in Aug (camping with mates).
A trip to Shropshire not yet booked for Sept.
Late Sept I have an AirBNB place booked for 11 days in Ferragudo, Portugal and am about to conditionally book a further 4 weeks at the place we just left to tack on the end, to take us into Nov.
I was thinking about 10 days in Egypt late Nov/Dec as per last year but SWMBO wasn't keen so I may go solo.
Other than that. not a lot!!
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Life of the retiree eh! ;)
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About 4 months ago a new young couple (aged about 25) moved in to the Drive, having bought the largest house here (cost about £600k - doing well - drives a Merc about 15 years old so priorities in the right place).
Last night we got a very nice personalised letter from them thanking us for the Christmas card, warm welcome etc and as we are elderly, offering to walk our dog and help get shopping in!
I'm spitting feathers - I'm nowhere near retirement age at the moment :-)
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Hospital that Miss Z works at has 2 confirmed cases.
One queried by her and confirmed by test after she left.
Hospital has drastically changed her shifts in acknowledgement that she was incompatible with her existing shift pattern. She is doing the same hours, just shorter blocks of hours / more breaks.
She has also been told that her next rotation, to start in April may not happen as they need to man the intensive care wards. She has 4 days off and won't be coming home as Mrs Z is in an at risk group.
She is due to change job and Trust in August to one much nearer home and about 100 miles from the current one. There have been rumours that this may not happen as they keep Doctors where they are.
We collected Master Z from Uni earlier in the week. He's eating us out of house and home!
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The Highlands and Isles are pleading with holidaymakers and camper drivers to stay away. Saw photos yesterday of Ben Nevis camp site absolutely heaving. Same as the ski slopes.
The Barra pages I visit are unanimous in cancelling all holidays. They simply don’t have resources to cope if there is an outbreak.
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Remote parts of wales were much the same by all accounts
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-51990604
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>> The Barra pages I visit are unanimous in cancelling all holidays. They simply don’t have
>> resources to cope if there is an outbreak.
Do you have a link for that Bobby? Even if it's not WITB then it would apply (as adapted) to Harris.
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>> As our holiday in a few weeks time is looking very unlikely, we contacted the
>> booking site, they've given us 12 month credit on the whole price of the holiday.
>> I think that's fair enough.
>>
>> Anyone else having to change their holiday plans?
>> We were booked to fly to Tenerife on the 24th 1week self catering, all cancelled obviously.
Tried claiming on insurance to be told pandemics, epedemics etc not covered. Grrrrr
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We were booked to fly to Tenerife on the 24th 1week self catering, all
>> cancelled obviously.
>> Tried claiming on insurance to be told pandemics, epedemics etc not covered. Grrrrr
>>
Not get them to change the dates?
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>> As our holiday in a few weeks time is looking very unlikely, we contacted the
>> booking site, they've given us 12 month credit on the whole price of the holiday.
>> I think that's fair enough.
>>
>> Anyone else having to change their holiday plans?
>>
BA Holidays cancelled my planned trip to Malta in April, and refunded in full in less than a week. I expect that any day soon the trip to Thailand in May will go the same way, as well as Zanzibar in June. I fear that the September / October trip to Australia to see my brother will also fall victim to this. However, today it’s sunny, warm in the garden and the wine rack and drinks fridge are full. So...
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" However, today it’s sunny, warm in the garden and the wine rack and drinks fridge are full. So..."
That's the spirit !!!
We're just about to take the dog for a walk in this wonderful sunshine.
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Caravan and Motorhome Club have closed all their sites until 30 June.
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One of the reasons I was uncomfortable with the praise being showered on Johnson here in the last couple of days is that I've been baffled by the apparently continued implication, without any credible explanation, that the epidemic can be dealt with over the summer. Ever since the numbers were laid out in the Imperial paper no journalist has really tried to pin this down in the Q&A.
The three ideas that 60%-80% can catch it, that deaths can be in the tens of thousands rather than hundreds, and that this can be achieved in 6 months let alone 3, just do not compute.
I've finally stumbled across an article, hopefully from a non-swivel-eyed source, that articulates this:
www.technologyreview.com/s/615370/coronavirus-pandemic-social-distancing-18-months/?fbclid=IwAR0ZUyvIb7fuPC_RIOi-OrJ0qcOljt8LFFFD0q1tS9B1CP6td7GyusQhh7w
Johnson looked uncomfortable he was gently challenged on the 3 month timescale, and he then came out with his Churchillian reassurance. I'd guess that words have since been had behind the scenes and we'll hear rather less about it next week.
Any notion that Johnson can be trusted with this is IMO mistaken. Andrew Gimson, his biographer, said this morning on The Week in Westminster "He likes danger, he likes risk, he likes things to be happening, and of course he absolutely loves being at the centre of events...so in many ways he is psychologically rather well suited to a crisis...". - I'm not sure what Gimson's qualifications in psychology are, but I'd rather have a PM who isn't enjoying it quite so much.
Johnson has zero integrity. Can there be any question about that? It doesn't take five minutes to assemble a long list of his past outright lies and fantasies. He is the nation's champion liar, it was his occupation as a columnist for decades and he has done it constantly in his political career so why would any sane person assume that he has now become trustworthy?
More importantly, unless something really big turns up, this will not be over in 3 months or anywhere near it.
Let's hope the experts can prevail. There is no one in the cabinet who looks remotely able to restrain him, and who knows where Cummings is in all this but I suspect he's lost control of Johnson anyway.
If anyone has a rational explanation of how we can be over the worst in 3 or 4 months I'd be glad to hear it.
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>> One of the reasons I was uncomfortable with the praise being showered on Johnson here
>> in the last couple of days is that I've been baffled by the apparently continued
>> implication, without any credible explanation, that the epidemic can be dealt with over the summer.
Without discussing every dot and comma, are you:-
1. Suggesting that the PM is not following the advice of his experts?
2. His experts are not expert and do not know what they are talking about?
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>> Without discussing every dot and comma, are you:-
>>
>> 1. Suggesting that the PM is not following the advice of his experts?
No. But the timings and the choice of levers, realistically, are politically influenced. There are always going to be good reasons for that but it might - I don't know - have delayed things or watered them down a bit.
e.g. Johnson said on Monday that if we did not introduce measures to reduce spread, cases could double in "5 or 6 days". That has in fact happened and more - from 1,390 on 15 March to over 4,000 today, Saturday. I infer that the number is currently higher than was expected on Monday and there must be heightened concern. Whitty and Vallance were absent from the update yesterday and I don't think it was because they were having the afternoon off.
>> 2. His experts are not expert and do not know what they are talking about?
Not at all.
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"If anyone has a rational explanation of how we can be over the worst in 3 or 4 months I'd be glad to hear it."
If there's any truth in it, the Chinese seem to be over the worst ........ or is that fake news???
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>> "If anyone has a rational explanation of how we can be over the worst in
>> 3 or 4 months I'd be glad to hear it."
>>
>> If there's any truth in it, the Chinese seem to be over the worst ........
>> or is that fake news???
>>
They are where hopefully we might be in three months
They have contained the rise in infection by strict quarantining. they are now faced with the problem of what to do next. Relaxation of isolation measures is going to result with a further surge in the number of cases. That won't stop until either the majority of the population has had the disease, has died or a vaccine is developed.
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Sat 21 Mar 20 at 14:20
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>> "If anyone has a rational explanation of how we can be over the worst in
>> 3 or 4 months I'd be glad to hear it."
>>
>> If there's any truth in it, the Chinese seem to be over the worst ........
>> or is that fake news???
>>
Some commentator mentioned that once they start mingling again the levels of infection will rise again.
I understand that they are also experiencing a secondary wave from students returning home.
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>> If there's any truth in it, the Chinese seem to be over the worst ........
>> or is that fake news???
That's one province. The rest of the country hasn't had it. They're OK as long as there is no travel in or out, presumably.
Maybe it's fake news, but I wouldn't assume so. What is puzzling is what the plan is, especially as they have dismantled the extra hospitals. I can't believe they don't have one.
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Where are you getting this "over the worst in 3 or 4 months thing"?
My understanding of what has been officially said, including by B Johnson, is that if we all continue with social distancing etc the infection and death rate will go into decline by then. That's not the same thing as it will all be over. We still have no exit strategy and once we relax the current measures the infection and deaths will star to rise again.
Im sure a lot of people are indulging in wishful thinking and are thinking normal life will resume in June but it won't.
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>> Where are you getting this "over the worst in 3 or 4 months thing"?
>>
>> My understanding of what has been officially said, including by B Johnson, is that if
>> we all continue with social distancing etc the infection and death rate will go into
>> decline by then.
You mean this presumably
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-boris-johnson-update-today-uk-death-toll-cases-map-when-over-a9412226.html
and yes they are words allowing some wiggle room. But he had ample opportunity to clarify and despite being invited to do so we are still left with "turn the tide within the next 12 weeks" and "confident we can send coronavirus packing...but only if we take the steps that we have outlined".
Not quite enough to cause Whitty and Vallance to contradict him but they looked uncomfortable to me, and I think the interpretation of the majority who probably aren't following this in detail and doing sums might reasonably be that they might still be going on holiday in June. In fact I know it is.
Last edited by: Manatee on Sat 21 Mar 20 at 14:58
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I think he is overdoing the optimism and the 3 months thing isn't helping.
Oldies I know well are basically ignoring it and think they are being helpful or practical carrying on as usual. Many will get ill if they continue, they will help swamp the NHS, and they will be the ones who don't get an ICU bed. Whether they die or not they will be part of the problem.
I'd like more public service information, be it social media, TV, whatever works. People are not getting it at all. The 5pm briefings I imagine are not getting the full audience.
I think all of us who have participated in this thread are massively better informed than most.
Too many people gathering and travelling unnecessarily. Picture is from FB, this morning at a local beauty spot. There were queues of traffic to get in and park. Obviously a lot of people had the same idea (summery morning) but they didn't all have to stay.
i.postimg.cc/xTFN96wV/Ashridge-2020-03-21-154523.jpg
I think the National Trust probably contributed to this with their free parking announcements.
EDIT: Apparently the Yorkshire Dales, Whitby, N. York moors are rammed. People are treating it as a holiday. Unbelievable.
Last edited by: Manatee on Sat 21 Mar 20 at 16:04
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>> Too many people gathering and travelling unnecessarily.
Yesterday's briefing, as well as closing pubs etc, also includes a request to avoid all unnecessary travel
www.gov.uk/government/news/government-announces-further-measures-on-social-distancing#history
Not sure how far that made the media's cut last night. I only found it after it was mentioned on caravan forum and some people suggested the person posting had picked up fake news.
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>> Too many people gathering and travelling unnecessarily. Picture is from FB, this morning at a
>> local beauty spot. There were queues of traffic to get in and park. Obviously a
>> lot of people had the same idea (summery morning) but they didn't all have to
>> stay.
What if there were, if the cafes and tea rooms are closed,I bet every single person in that area was more than two yards apart.
Do you know ow many people you can fit in the dales and N Yorks moors? and keep them two metres apart,? More than a shed load I bet you.
Also Believe me you dont need more social media news, it is the very worse news medium, you cant believe a single syllable thats you read,
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We went for a 5 Mille walk at Blickling, a National Trust property, yesterday. Took a flask. Car parking is indeed now free. Quite a few people there out for a walk with dog and without. People keeping to a good distance when passing and once away from the car park practically alone.
No problem going for a walk in the country it’s indoor socialising and large crowds we need to avoid.
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>> No problem going for a walk in the country it’s indoor socialising and large crowds
>> we need to avoid.
Tick. We all need sensible outdoors exercise.
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National Trust is now closing its parks and gardens.
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"National Trust is now closing its parks and gardens."
On Friday, while out walking the dog, my wife came across a former work colleague out with her toddler. Her friend said that she'd been to Ickworth Park, our local NT place on Friday and it was packed - the overflow carpark had been brought into use. Another local said on Facebook that she visited yesterday and was informed by the attendant that there were 2000 people in the grounds.
I suppose that the (previous) high price kept the riff-raff out - like the Galapagos, the Ritz and British Justice.
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>>Do you know ow many people you can fit in the dales and N Yorks moors? and keep them two metres apart,? More than a shed load I bet you.
If only it worked that way. They pack the honeypots unfortunately. Goathland was busy, lots of people in Malham apparently. Fortunately as you say the cafes etc are shut, just in time.
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I live in the Y Dales NP and as I’m self isolating since returning from Spain on Wednesday I’ve no idea how busy Settle is. I live a mile outside, heard the usual sound of motorbikes and even spoken to neighbours by shouting across the road as I hung my smalls out ! Can’t comment on foot traffic.
Pal of mine is at this moment at Alicante awaiting a flight home. Apparently there wasn’t a single traveller at the Jet2 check in desk when he arrived. Probably everyone has now left.
As an aside, a friend of his in the U.K. who is self isolating because of a cough & cold, has asked him to pick up some bottles of wine on his way home from the airport and drop them off. Personally I’d be going straight home and self isolating, especially after sitting on an aircraft with potentially infected folks, no matter how minuscule the risk. I sure wouldn’t be buying wine for a friend! Neighbours have left him food essentials on his doorstep.
Last edited by: legacylad on Sat 21 Mar 20 at 17:11
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>> I think he is overdoing the optimism and the 3 months thing isn't helping.
>>
>> Oldies I know well are basically ignoring it and think they are being helpful or
>> practical carrying on as usual. Many will get ill if they continue, they will help
>> swamp the NHS, and they will be the ones who don't get an ICU bed.
>> Whether they die or not they will be part of the problem.
>>
>> I'd like more public service information, be it social media, TV, whatever works. People are
>> not getting it at all. The 5pm briefings I imagine are not getting the full
>> audience.
I don't think he's overdoing it, there's so many factors that might influence people to act and to balance them off is pretty tough. Plenty hear the same thing in very different ways.
I get the public service ads and possibly there is some mileage in it, I'm not sure how many people don't know what to do though.
As for pensioners, most that want to carry on as normal will do so regardless of how much information comes their way.
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I agree.
I think he's presenting a pretty realistic picture. Everybody knows what they shoudl be doing, I'm sure.
Some just don't believe they shoudl have to. Like Bromp's 'riled' enighbour. Giving these peopel mroe information will make no difference.
I don't watch Boris everyday, but I think it was Thursday when he was asked about when it could be all over and he was pretty clear in that he couldn't possibly say but he could see what he thoguht he needed to do to get it there over the next 3 months.
I think it is endlessly possible to pick holes. It all depends on where you atart from; if you want to take the cynical pessimistic approach, then there is plenty of scope. Equally if you wish to take the optimistic obecttive approach, ro anythign in between, then it's all there.
For me I think he is leading well, he is listening to his experts, he is aggressively trying to help the country and is not flogging any dead horses.
Fortunately the ones insisting on putting themselves at risk are probably the ones that we can most afford to lose. As long as they don't take the rest of us down with them.
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>> Some just don't believe they shoudl have to. Like Bromp's 'riled' enighbour.
For clarity.
There is NO instruction for over seventies to self isolate, it is simply advised that they are more particular than rest of us in 'social distancing'.
I think it was mooted a week or so ago that they should stay indoors for 3 months. The older but fit and well cohort said 'hang on a mo' or stronger words to same effect. It was neither rational nor practical. That counts; these people are assiduous voters.
>> I don't watch Boris everyday, but I think it was Thursday when he was asked
>> about when it could be all over and he was pretty clear in that he
>> couldn't possibly say but he could see what he thoguht he needed to do to
>> get it there over the next 3 months.
I thought he said we'd send Coronavirus packing after 3 months. In much same tone as 'Get Brexit Done'. He's still campaigning.....
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>>I think it was mooted a week or so ago that they should stay indoors for 3 months.
It was. And it's a damned good idea for those of us that are in a position to do it. If the pension continues to land in the bank account and we don't have to turn out to work, we can take ourselves out of the numbers and reduce spread.
If we just do what everybody else does then we will disproportionately increase the number of cases needing treatment and more so the serious ones. The NHS would be much more easily swamped and we would be the ones labelled DNR because there will be no beds and ventilators for us at the back of the queue.
The problem is that we could be cooped up for a year hoping for a vaccine - if there is one.
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>> >>I think it was mooted a week or so ago that they should stay indoors
>> for 3 months.
>>
>> It was. And it's a damned good idea for those of us that are in
>> a position to do it. If the pension continues to land in the bank account
>> and we don't have to turn out to work, we can take ourselves out of
>> the numbers and reduce spread.
And how do you get food and provisions?
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>> And how do you get food and provisions?
Use my initiative.
Preferably supermarket deliveries although can't book those right now. Even click and collect is 3 weeks away at the moment. So it looks as if one of us will have to shop, using quiet times and maintaining separation.
I just managed to book a click and collect 3 weeks away. I shall repeat that weekly, either delivery of C&C as slots become available to book.
Do the best we can in other words.
Last edited by: Manatee on Sun 22 Mar 20 at 06:41
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>>>>One of the reasons I was uncomfortable with the praise being showered on Johnson here in the last couple of days is that I've been baffled by the apparently continued implication, without any credible explanation, that the epidemic can be dealt with over the summer. Ever since the numbers were laid out in the Imperial paper no journalist has really tried to pin this down in the Q&A.<<<<<
Having watched most of the 17.00 briefings, BJ has failed to answer nearly every question that is asked, when it goes beyond the scope of what he has just outlined in his most recent address. His answers generally consist of rewording of what he has said, referring to his expert, or " we will get it done". No journalist has been allowed to comment or seek clarification of the unanswered questions.
Cynically, there are 2 possible outcomes:
He has got it correct and everybody thinks he has done a wonderful job and he will go down in history as a true Churchillian Leader.
He has got it wrong, but it is not his fault, because the the great unwashed failed to take the advice /instructions on social distancing/isolation and he walks away. And all the potential Brexit problems just disappear into the virus cloud.
perhaps Cummings is pulling the strings after all.
Last edited by: sherlock47 on Sat 21 Mar 20 at 16:47
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"Having watched most of the 17.00 briefings, BJ has failed to answer nearly every question that is asked, when it goes beyond the scope of what he has outlined in his most recent address. His answers generally consist of rewording of what he has said, referring to his expert, or " we will get it done". No journalist has been allowed to comment or seek clarification of the unanswered questions."
I generally trying to watch the briefing by Boris and his sidekicks (good name for a band), but drift away once the journos get cracking. Remember, any fool can ask a question that a wise man cannot answer.
..... and, Manatee, stop worrying - it never gets you anywhere and it just makes you feel bad; stick to the rules and you'll be fine. Remember, this virus is not spread by rat fleas, it isn't spread by mosquitos .......... it's spread from human to human with, sometimes, a touched surface (fomite) in between. [IMHO]
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>> I generally trying to watch the briefing by Boris and his sidekicks (good name for
>> a band), but drift away once the journos get cracking. Remember, any fool can ask
>> a question that a wise man cannot answer.
The journos are seeking an angle, a news bite they can mangle, they are there to sell clicks and newsprint. Sane sensible answers dont cut it, they are useless to them.
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"The journos are seeking an angle, a news bite they can mangle, they are there to sell clicks and newsprint. Sane sensible answers dont cut it, they are useless to them."
Ah, you've done media training too! I grew to loathe them.
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>> I grew to loathe them.
I did. But not as much as I came to loath the readers that made the behaviour worth their while.
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>> it's spread from human to human
Don't you find it quite surprisngly difficult to cut contact to nil? Even ignoring the demands/needs of my children and talking about just me. I had to go to the doctor's yesterday, I shall need to go to the pharmacy in the next few days, I will need to go to the supermarket within a week, etc. etc.
I wonder how easily it is transmitted by asymptomatic people. They make much of the fact that people can be infectious before they show symptoms, but then say that it is mostly passed by coughing/sneezing particles in the air with, as you say, the occasional involvement of a surface.
I find the idea of avoiding people for three months almost an impoosibility. Which I guess goes back to somethign Brois Johnson said at the begnning; isolation won't stick forever. People start getting lax and gradually sliding back out of it.
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I am in Israel caring for my father who until a few weeks ago was in good health and totally independent. His decline has been rapid caused by a recently diagnosed cancer. As his only child I am here until such time as I can get a good live-in carer settled, I understand the likely treatment and probably stay for the first round.
The virus may mean I cannot get home when I am ready to leave because flights have stopped by then.
The Israeli method for dealing with the virus has been stricter/quicker than the UK and approaching the Taiwanese/Singaporeans. Whilst there are increasing numbers of positive tests (partially due to increasing numbers being tested) there has only been one death, which from a population of 8 Million is pretty good.
The restrictions on personal freedom have gradually been ratched up, with all restaurants/cafes/shopping malls closed from last Saturday evening, and a request not to leave the house without good reason from Thursday. Tonight apparently, they are considering a stricter lockdown and prescriptions of anyone over 65 will be delivered FOC rather than collecting them.
They are using technology to identify if people in quarantine are breaking it (mobile phone data) and the public are encouraged to grass up those that do. The worst offenders in terms of not keeping social distancing properly are the ultra-Orthodox and Arabs who for different reasons choose to ignore government announcements. Fortunately sense is now being used when the news from Italy seeps through.
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>> The Israeli method for dealing with the virus has been stricter/quicker than the UK and
>> approaching the Taiwanese/Singaporeans. Whilst there are increasing numbers of positive tests (partially due to increasing
>> numbers being tested) there has only been one death, which from a population of 8
>> Million is pretty good.
But their 102 cases per million population is pretty poor, worse than UK, or USA for example:-
www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
Last edited by: Duncan on Sat 21 Mar 20 at 21:49
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">> it's spread from human to human"
Back in the good old days, the nature and spread of disease wasn't well understood - certainly not by the masses - but now, when 50% of the populus goes to 'uni', we really ought to know better. Even if we haven't been taught it directly, then we ought to be able to understand the logic.
"Don't you find it quite surprisingly difficult to cut contact to nil?"
Yes, I do - absolutely I do. Last Tuesday, we said goodbye to our beautiful 3yr old granddaughter; after she'd gone my wife and I looked at one another with tear-filled eyes, but we knew what was for the best. But, in many ways, we are lucky - last year my 94yr old father passed away; looking after him would have been a nightmare - he was immobile and had emphysema. I have a work pension that we can basically live on and my wife's lesser pension and our state pensions will have to go towards supporting our sons and DiLs who are self-employed and have young children.
Life is different - and we will get used to it; you have to think about your every move which, in our case, doesn't have to be very much out of the house. I keep a small bottle of hand-gel in my pocket and when we went to the supermarket yesterday evening, I gave my hands a liberal soak before touching the trolley; I used the gel again when I used the petrol pump. At the market this morning, I gelled my hands as we approached the stalls and again when I got in the car - avoiding touching my face in between. But it isn't possible to always get it right. Our only real problem is that our daughter, who lives with us, works at the local supermarket .........
We are also lucky in that we are able to use WhatsApp, Facetime and Zoom to keep in touch with the family.
"I wonder how easily it is transmitted by asymptomatic people. ........"
That, we don't know - I would almost go as far as to say we can't know - because it's a 'how long's a piece of string' question. Similarly, how long are people infectious for, after the illness has subsided. This is why we cannot afford to take chances until we know that we are well clear ....... this is where antibody-testing will come into its own. As people get fed up with the precautions, these are the factors that are going to catch us out if we aren't careful.
"I find the idea of avoiding people for three months almost an impoosibility. Which I guess goes back to somethign Brois Johnson said at the begnning; isolation won't stick forever. People start getting lax and gradually sliding back out of it."
I had some practice at social distancing between January and April 2018 when the predominant flu type hadn't been accounted for in the annual flu jab, or so I understood at the time. As I had already been waiting for months for an open nephrectomy, I didn't want any chance for the operation to be foiled by catching flu. Hence there was no jazz club, no football, no choir etc - but by April, as the weather improved, all talk of flu wilted and I emerged again from my shell. Of course, our concern with this one is how long must it go on for.
[IMHO]
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No it wont be over in three months, the fall out of isolating the community is the reinfection phases later, because no-one has immunity. It will be a decreasing amplitude sinewave.
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'Over the worst' is quite different to 'it'll be all over'.
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Everyone is seeking a goal of a "manageable solution".
Last edited by: Zero on Sat 21 Mar 20 at 17:50
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Not sure if you need to have Fudbook to see this, but it compares Italian and British cumulative mortality rates.
The UK figure for 20th March is 177.
tinyurl.com/tnvjqs2
Last edited by: Lygonos on Sat 21 Mar 20 at 16:35
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>> Not sure if you need to have Fudbook to see this, but it compares Italian
>> and British cumulative mortality rates.
>>
>> The UK figure for 20th March is 177.
>>
>> tinyurl.com/tnvjqs2
My preferred reference is
www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
Click at the top of the columns to change the sort order. Why so many deaths in Spain? Are they similar life styles to Italy?
Last edited by: Duncan on Sat 21 Mar 20 at 18:24
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>> Click at the top of the columns to change the sort order. Why so many
>> deaths in Spain? Are they similar life styles to Italy?
Yes they are, the mortality rates are highest in the cities, Aged population, large family groups in dense housing, a tradition of family dining and socialising
The UK is much better we shuffle our aged off to homes ASAP and forget they are there, so never visit.
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>> The UK figure for 20th March is 177.
>> tinyurl.com/tnvjqs2
And the figure for 21st March is 233 - identical to Italy on 7th March
The real deal....
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>> The real deal....
I guess we'll know in the next few days if are to follow italy.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 21 Mar 20 at 21:26
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The UK path is parallel to that of Italy, just 2 weeks later.
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Have a look at these charts....
www.ft.com/coronavirus-latest
UK, Italy and SPain all look broadly similar curves. The US looks like it is about to spike upwards and South Korea and Japan are to be envied.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sat 21 Mar 20 at 20:31
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Maybe these will work because I think the FT ones are behind the paywall.
imgur.com/G9ngjsx
imgur.com/qj015EL
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>> The UK path is parallel to that of Italy, just 2 weeks later.
>>
I've not seen the data for italy outside milan and it's surrounding area, but I'm going to assume they aren't as bad?
Not aimed at you specifically, just wondering.
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>> I've not seen the data for italy outside milan and it's surrounding area, but I'm
>> going to assume they aren't as bad?
According to reports I've heard on BBC, either Radio 4 or World Service, the vast majority are in the north. Whether it's just Lombardia or includes Turin and Venice wasn't clear.
Movement restrictions in Lombardia started around a fortnight ago so if it works then deaths should level out over next week or two. My daughter was due to go to Genoa last weekend to see a school friend who lives out there. At one point the restricted area was close by to north/east but the coastal strip Savona>San Remo>Genoa was still 'OK'. She would, in a rapidly moving environment have baled and lost her money rather than go and risk struggling to get back or needing quarantine. In event FCO advice was put in place and RYR gave her a prompt refund.
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"There's a table on this page"
An amazing curve. I wonder at what point someone is described as "healed"
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>> It's overwhelmingly Lombardia.
>>
>> There's a table on this page
>>
>> it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandemia_di_COVID-19_del_2020_in_Italia
>>
Thanks for that, bad enough in other parts but some seem to have pretty low numbers.
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Motorcycle trip over Easter Hull to Zeebrugge and down to Normandy scuppered.
Listening to todays briefing earlier you have to question journalism. Scaremongering statements disguised as questions which state the bleeding obvious. Such as - 'Are Doctors going to have to make a choice to provide care to someone who is likely to make a recovery or someone who is not?' The subject keeps coming up and we all know the answer as much as we don't like it. So why keep asking?
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>> Motorcycle trip over Easter Hull to Zeebrugge and down to Normandy scuppered.
Diversion.
Hull City are the only team in the Football League who.......what?
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"Hull City are the only team in the Football League who.......what?"
Have a big cat on their club logo?
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Along with Grimsby Town could play on Christmas Day due to the constraints of the fishing industry??
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Then they wouldn't be the ONLY team, would they?
No.
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Only team to have only 4 letters in their name?
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Only team whose name contains no letters you can colour in.
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And the winner is.........................
Dave_
Well done sir, see me when all this business is over and I will make sure you get the prize.
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So he watches Only Connect as well!
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Funny outfit she was wearing the other day?
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Only team in Yorkshire then :)
Come on the suspense is killing me.
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I know the answer, its so ruddy stupid I dont have the bawls to put it on here.
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If this has not already been posted its worth a listen. Strong message. And the end is just as touching as the beginning.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQD4B_hmdvo
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Miss Z has just got off her shift and was on the phone in tears.
I know A&E doesn't suit her, but today has been horrendous.
Patients' visitors are not understanding that only one visitor is allowed. They become pushy and violent when told.
One 18 stone 6ft tall bloke pushed her out of the way and would not leave when ordered - she is 5ft 3 and 8st and went down. Police called.
Some deliberately coughing and spluttering over staff and all over the place to make a point, then laughing.
There have also been threats of violence when Star-Trek like medical "miracles" are not performed on sick patients.
One of the CV19 patients is very ill but there are no underlying health problems.
There are staff going down ill.
Stay in. I have seen elsewhere, people talking of going out regardless. They are utter selfish prats. I would use a most obnoxious word if the swear filter was not here.
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The great entitled British public at its best. :(
'Some deliberately coughing and spluttering over staff and all over the place to make a point, then laughing.'
I've some some anuses in my time but that ranks up there. Until they get some solid enforcement presence then that behaviour will only continue. That cant be allowed to happen. I could cry with and for her.
Best wishes to Miss Z I'm sure she's doing a wonderful job and its really appreciated by the silent majority.
Last edited by: Fullchat on Sun 22 Mar 20 at 01:24
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Thanks Fullchat.
As her dad, I am worried sick - but it's what she wants to do.
It wasn't the bullies that upset her, they infuriated her.
It was a hopeless situation that did it, an elderly patient came in and is unlikely to survive. No nearby relatives.
Queried CV19 but not, just respiratory & heart problems and on her own. She was understandably frightened and asked for a hug, which Miss Z did totally out of protocol. Her consultant saw and and agreed he would have done the same.
I guess the patient reminded her of her Nan.
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>>
>> As her dad, I am worried sick..........
>>
...can't do anything about the worry, but do be immensely, immensely proud....
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>> The great entitled British public at its best. :(
Probably a tiny un-representative minority.
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"Miss Z has just got off her shift and was on the phone in tears..........."
Disgraceful stuff - all A&Es should be equipped with a security guard who is prepared to use a cosh, no messing about.
My (SEN) daughter slices and serves bread at the local supermarket and, of course, when the bread has all gone, she gets the abuse as well. And the most disgusting ones are often from the older generation. Not everyone is like that though, several weeks ago - before all this started - one of her old-lady regulars pressed a £10 into her hand and insisted that she kept it as a tip.
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>> "Miss Z has just got off her shift and was on the phone in tears..........."
>>
>> Disgraceful stuff - all A&Es should be equipped with a security guard who is prepared
>> to use a cosh, no messing about.
A&E serving any part of a large metropolis, is and always has been a war zone at weekends, and full of barely ill people the rest of the time. at least closing the pubs will stop the normal flow of abusive and violent patients. I was constantly amazed by the number of cop cars parked outside, coppers escorting injured suspects, taking witness statements from victims, taking statements and facts from medical staff, and there to arrest patients for abusing and assaulting the staff.
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"A&E serving any part of a large metropolis"
Looking on the bright side, there won't be many football/rugby injuries to contend with.
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I suspect they'd rather be dealing with a few broken bones and torn ligaments though!!
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And talking of the metropolis, I haven't heard much about stabbings lately - have the idiots stopped sticking knives into one another?
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>> A&E serving any part of a large metropolis, is and always has been a war
>> zone at weekends, and full of barely ill people the rest of the time.
Long story shorter.
I had surgery Wednesday week (11th). Couldn't stop the wound bleeding. Two trips to A & E Wednesday evening and around 2a.m. Thursday. The evening visit was dreadfully crowded.
Whereas the early morning trip was almost pleasant. The ambulance man said "there's only one screamer in tonight". She was making enough noise for 10. So, me, her and a couple of foul mouthed druggies, made for quite a select gathering. I had the best of attention.
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Long story shorter.
Hope you're OK now Duncan...
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>> If this has not already been posted its worth a listen. Strong message. And the
>> end is just as touching as the beginning.
Anyone care to give a precis?
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Lockdown in the U.K. is long overdue. Quite how it would be enforced is a different matter. Like many of us I’d like to spend time with my mum today ( then go to the pub) but since returning from Spain I haven’t been within 10’ of her. Or her front door ! Twice I’ve been to her home. She comes to her front door and we have a distanced conversation, then I return home to self isolation. Most of the time we talk on the phone.
Thank goodness I’ve good neighbours who leave food on my doorstep, I’ve outside space and if I want can go for a walk in the Dales from my doorstep and am very unlikely to meet more than a handful of people. Who I stay well clear of.
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Checked google and it showed Costco was quiet so went last night.
5pm on the M9 - hardly any traffic.
Shop itself was not busy - only one item allowed of most grocery items - till were set up to refuse more.
No bumwipe or kitchen roll in store.
Everyone staying 6 feet apart at tills.
Washed my hands before leaving and again after unloading at home.
Have been improving my homecooking skills - spaghetti with homemade pesto*, sliced potato and green beans; penne with smoked salmon and thyme; noodle soup with tofu, leek and kimchi in the last couple of days.
* holy crap - homemade pesto tastes amazing - serious risk of becoming a fatty in the next few months.
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>> Checked google and it showed Costco was quiet so went last night.
>>
>> 5pm on the M9 - hardly any traffic.
went to Barrow upon Soar yesterday to look at a Swift basecamp (bought it - for another thread) on the way home, the M25 was empty 124 miles clocked off in exactly two hours.
l
>> Shop itself was not busy - only one item allowed of most grocery items -
>> till were set up to refuse more.
We have a mole in our nearest large Asda. Got a txt yesterday morning that they had bog rolls, and were opening at 8:00am. I gets there at 07:55 to find a moderate queue. two queues in fact, so I asked the bouncer (yes they now have bouncers) what the other, shorter one, was. "65 and over and vulnerable" "I'm 65" says I, truthfully "In you go mate" says he.
So in I goes, out 10 minutes later, 12 pack of bog rolls, 6 eggs, bag of rice, two tins of tomatoes, in hand, nothing extravagant, here we are trying to run on our normal 7 to 10 days worth of provisions in store.
One good thing about our nearest large Asda, it serves a large Muslim area of immigrants. It has no rice, but the Booze shelves are loaded!!!!!
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>> >> If this has not already been posted its worth a listen. Strong message. And
>> the
>> >> end is just as touching as the beginning.
>>
>> Anyone care to give a precis?
>>
Stay at home, we're about to be in a lot of trouble.
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Chez LL enjoys views across the upper Ribble valley just outside Settle. It’s a bright, dry day and for the first time in 20 years on a Sunday morning I haven’t heard a single motorbike heading up the valley towards Ribblehead viaduct.
8AM this morning the Olde Naked Man cafe in the centre of Settle removed all its outside seating which is a magnet for bikers and walkers. Should have done it a week ago but it’s appreciated by us locals.
And no you can’t park your camper on my drive !
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Copy/pasted from the comments section of a GP rag and only an anecdote so not scientific evidence, but.....
"They want us visiting the sick Covid cases- I have experienced this today-( LONDON GP)
A pregnant patient, high fever and short of breath- couldn’t get a response from 111 yesterday and finally they told her to call her GP. I visited her this morning- assessed her: temp 39.5. sats 94 p 106
I Even did bloods- got them back a few hours later.....
CRP 110 with normal white cell count- was sure it was Covid
Discussed with med registrar in local big LONDON hospital - “ send her to A&E they’ll triage and call me if we’re needed”- I was gob snacked- pretty sure you’ll be needed mate!
I called A&E- to confirm this was the right route....- it was! they have a red and a green zone and she could “go wait in the red zone”. The 999 ambulance call to send her to A&E had us on hold for 1 hour and 45 minutes.
I then had to leave to see the next patient- she sent me a message that’s she’s still in A& E waiting to be seen having taken a taxi as couldn’t get through to blue light 999 ambulance!
This is the reality! The service is not functioning- god help anyone having a stroke- never mind Covid death rates - what are cardiovascular death rates??? No one left to do normal stuff- all overwhelmed already!"
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'Anyone care to give a precis?'
Its the emotion behind it that puts the message into perspective. The message about the impact of the virus and the message about the treatment of staff. It really isn't a big ask.
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On a lighter note apparently the reluctance of Weatherspoons to shut their doors is down to the fact that they are still waiting for customers to get back from the toilets. :)
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On a lighter lighter note don't forget to wash your hands.
Link contains grown up material which may offend. smokie
www.facebook.com/PositivelyIrish/posts/2803359873114461
Link contains grown up material which may offend. smokie
Last edited by: smokie on Sun 22 Mar 20 at 11:34
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Also worth a listen, if you have a spare half hour. Which most of us do nowadays ;)
www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0877mb2
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Pizza Hut
Dominos
Body Shop
Have been running round the clock free food and gift deliveries to the local A&E.
Thanks Guys!
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Any chance of starting a new volume?
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BP Giving free fuel to Emergency Services - zippy
