After being made redundant, I am in the hunt for a new job.
I see so many jobs advertised as "competitive salary". Why do they use this phrase? I understand at higher levels, in excess of my areas of expertise, this could be relevant as they do not want to put off the right candidate and everything will be up for discussion including the overall package.
But for many of the jobs I am looking at, it is still being quoted. What is the thinking behind this?
Yet other jobs give the exact salary to the individual pound!
When advertising, employers must know what they are looking to spend so why not even give a range?
Police, NHS, Council jobs are all salary quoted.
Lots of private, smaller companies don't seem to want the world to know - but then folk like Arnold Clark have 388 vacancies, most of which are "competitive plus benefits". I mean, "Car Park Attendant - competitive plus benefits" - why??
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Probably because they do not wish their other car park attendants to know how much they are prepared to pay on the open market. Most private employers like to maintain a veil of secrecy over their pay scales as there are often huge differences fo people doing similar jobs. That is after all how they have got away with underpaying women for so long.
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Fri 12 Jul 19 at 09:34
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Oddly, this popped up on my social networking account...
We are looking for a skilled technician to join our team in our expanding, friendly, well established and very busy family run garage in Caernarfon.
With NVQ/BTEC or City and Guilds Motor Vehicle Service and Repair Level 3 qualifications or equivalent, you'll have experience working as a fully qualified technician, ideally with some commercial vehicles experience and an MOT tester
You'll be the kind of person who feels at home in a busy and well equipped workshop
The successful candidate will be expected to be:
A skilled motor technician
Good as working as part of a team
willing to carry on learning and partake in various courses as the trade evolves in the future
Flexible in terms of working Saturday mornings on a rota basis
Maintaining good service records by documenting problems identified and repair solutions
Maintaining a safe and clean work environment by following standards and procedures, complying with legal regulations
A full UK driving licence is required
Competitive salary, pension and holiday package dependent on experience
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Looks like a normal job advert?
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It is, including the "competitive salary" line at the very end.
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> But for many of the jobs I am looking at, it is still being quoted.
>> What is the thinking behind this?
>>
>> Yet other jobs give the exact salary to the individual pound!
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In some cases they don't want competitors to know what they are prepared to pay. If it's agency some of the jobs probably won't even exist and as cgn says it's easier to get wages down.
>> Police, NHS, Council jobs are all salary quoted.
>>
>> Lots of private, smaller companies don't seem to want the world to know
Public sector they have to put all pay scales up so the public can see them. You can find out pretty much any public sector wage.
some smaller businesses won't even know what sort of person they want to employ. So no surprise there.
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Pretty standard practice nowadays.
They won't want their competitors, or their existing employees to know what they are prepared to pay. Many companies no longer offer annual pay reviews, so it's not uncommon for longstanding employees to be paid far less than the market rate for their job. To attract people, the offer has to be competitive, but if it were published, there would be immediate outcry from existing employees, and the resulting negative impact on morale.
Also, it can work the other way in that when it comes down to negotiating the offer, the successful candidate's expectation might be below what they would have offered, so they can potentially save a few quid.
Nothing wrong with asking the question in the interview, even if you get an idea of the range. If it's through an agency, ask the question before you register an interest. I've never had a situation where they weren't prepared to ask their client.
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>> Public sector they have to put all pay scales up so the public can see
>> them. You can find out pretty much any public sector wage.
They will put the scales up but progression on the scale is anything but transparent. Different criteria in different years based on report markings, location, work area etc. Can take over a decade to get somewhere near the max then they mugger about with criteria and the max is effectively re-defined. Top of scale is only accessible to those getting 'exceeded' marks in their reports with the inevitable result that 30% of staff in one unit I worked in were on 'high flyer' marks. They were good competent people but not exceptional in any way, shape or form.
OTOH managers at moderate seniority can offer deals. Nearly 20 years ago I was offered extra range points to remain in a post. Head of branch just took me on one side and suggested I could go most of way to top of my scale. I politely declined as the place was a disaster area and was only going one way....
Others have been offered additional allowances or jobs have been re-graded with exceptions used to close usual requirement for competitive process.
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>> >> Public sector they have to put all pay scales up so the public can
>> see
>> >> them. You can find out pretty much any public sector wage.
>>
>> They will put the scales up but progression on the scale is anything but transparent.
of course but all the ways to progress on every public sector pay scale would be pretty complicated to put online.
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>>In some cases they don't want competitors to know what they are prepared to pay. I
Rarely, very rarely. There are HR organisations one can join specifically to share that information.
Money is not really the motivator everybody thinks it is. Conditions, envirnment and progression are.
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> Money is not really the motivator everybody thinks it is. Conditions, envirnment and progression are.
>
True, i think if you're offering golden hello, handcuffs etc you've messed up those three factors. Not always of course but often.
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Rarely, very rarely. There are HR organisations one can join specifically to share that information.
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fair enough, i thought I'd read somewhere it was quite often a factor.
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It's not what you asked but I just had some thoughts which may be helpful Bobby.
I did a bit of job hunting in my last few working years, and was sent on a course on executive job hunting by the dole office at one point (even though I wasn't an executive, by my standards anyways).
One thing which I think was really of value, though maybe obvious, was to follow up on applications, especially if you are interested in the job. I was firing off my CV left right and centre but nothing was coming back Calling the agency they day after sending my CV seemed to have an effect - at least they had to find my email amongst the 100s of other hopefuls and, when I asked if I fitted the bill, they had to have a squint at it.
One other thing was a well prepared and rehearsed TMAY. There are any number of links to it but this one happens to be the same organisation who educated me on it. www.lifehack.org/articles/work/improve-your-networking-by-tell-me-about-yourself.html They had us write it, the each week recite it in front of the class so we were comfortable with it. I was dubious at first but it really does have a value, with the right content.
Oh, and lastly - your CV ought to show your record of achievements not just be a list of jobs you've held. You can often use your TMAY Either bits of it it in it's entirety) in your covering email.
Good luck!
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Because they are probably prepared to pay more for the ideal candidate, even more for someone with kills they hadn't thought of, but merely average for an average employee.
For the right employee they will pay what they need to pay even if it is more than they planned.
Government departments do not have this freedom.
However, if an average employee comes along expecting the higher range it is not going to go well.
Also they do not want people to be applying because the salary is better than they get nor not applying because the salary is less than they get. They do not want the salary to be the driver.
So you apply for a job you want that you believe you are suited for. After the interview you will no doubt have an opinion as to how much you want the job and they will have an opinion as to how much they want you. And negotiation will start,
However, they will often ask you for your salary expectations, especially if they don't really know what they are doing. I would either refuse to answer and say that it depends on the details of their expectations or give a broad and meaningless range.
If they insist on knowing then they are probably not someone you want to work for.
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Kills was more interesting..
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Depends the job, I guess.
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I know a couple of people who added the skill inadvertently to their CV (more cookery than crookery)
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Mmm, I've done similar (worse). According to an auto corrected letter I once sent I am fluent in English, Portuguese and Spinach.
On a side point, I am often surprised how people do not understand the recruitment process;
- A covering letter gets them to read your CV
- A CV gets them to offer you an interview
- An interview gets you the job.
Each of those steps needs to be taken bearing in mind that goal. Whereas so often you see people including stuff in their CV which will not help them get an interview, yet leave stuff out that would.
Or people not customising each step and document for the specific job / opportunity / company they are addressing.
Apply the SFW test to everything you write.
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>>
>> Apply the SFW test to everything you write.
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Is that:-
Safe For Work, or
So Flipping (paraphrase) What?
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Or people not customising each step and document for the specific job / opportunity /
>> company they are addressing.
when I went on a cv/job hunting course about 7 years ago that was the biggest thing I took away from it.
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I've never had to bother with a CV. The types of employment I've had were secured by walking through the door without falling over and sitting through the interview without farting.
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I have the reverse problem.
I need to employ a qualified Building Surveyor. I am prepared to pay a bit over the regular salary for the right candidate but I get sent CVs from recruitment consultants for people without the required qualifications, or people who haven't a hope in getting the job as they are not capable of growing a department.
I had one great person but they chickened out after we offered the job to them. After that no decent candidates have been spotted. It's very frustrating and damaging the business by effectively stifling turnover.
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Is there a shortage of qualified building surveyors, genuine question.
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>> Is there a shortage of qualified building surveyors, genuine question.
That was my first thought too.
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I understood most were self employed.
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Not at all. We are not talking about the guy that inspects your house when you sell it (although that can be part it) but there is a whole world of building defect, condition and pathology inspections and reports, coupled with works specification and monitoring.
Such people are generally employed by larger companies.
There is a shortage of such surveyors but why put yourself on the market if you intend to move?
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Oddly when we were buying two years ago and moving to an area which is an hour from Chester maybe 1.5 hours from Liverpool it was difficult to find a surveyor that didn't work for national companies and a consequent lengthy wait for one tobe able to fit us in. I found a local self employed one via a friend in the building trade. Few advertise.
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The RICS should be able to provide contacts with surveyors local to you.
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Competitive Salary - CGNorwich
