Nearly 3 months ago, I mentioned on here that I had abandoned my ailing old Astra for a new Skoda Karoq. I had read the reports and reviews, had a test drive and, yes, that car seemed perfect for my present and likely future motoring needs.
My chosen variant was the manual 1.5tsi petrol SEL - I chose petrol because of the impending decline of diesels. The car was brilliant in every respect except one .....
Over the first few weeks of ownership, it dawned on me that the 'kangarooing' in first gear and the surprise stalling when pulling out at dodgy junctions wasn't a question of me getting used to the clutch biting point - it was an unpleasant and dangerous characteristic of the 1.5 engine. Yes, Skoda UK like to call it a 'characteristic' not an 'issue'. It seems to be more prevalent in manual rather than dsg gearboxes. Skoda are saying that this is not dangerous, while I would argue that an engine that stalls and leaves you stranded in the middle of a dodgy junction most definitely IS dangerous.
The 1.5 engine has been introduced throughout the VW, Audi, Skoda and Seat ranges and if you look on e.g. the T-roc owners websites, they are identifying the same problem. I fully expect this to be the next big issue for the VW group and whilst they are trying to keep a lid on it, it will blow in the near future.
My advice is to steer well clear of this engine and, before you buy a new car, don't just read the reviews and do a test drive but READ the owners' forums to find out what people really think of their cars.
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I think it is a "characteristic". A little more throttle when pulling away should cure it. I have the 1.4 TSI engine in my Golf SV and I remember stalling it a few times when I got it but no problems now.
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"A little more throttle when pulling away should cure it"
If only it were that simple, CG. There have been some big changes in moving from the 1.4 to the 1.5 and my thinking was that it would have been a straightforward improvement - but it ain't so. Skoda know all about this and are remaining calm on the surface but we will soon detect the smell coming from below. This is the Karoq forum, but you will find similar on the T-roc etc forums.
www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/446820-15-sel-first-gear-issue/?page=1
There are 29 pages of it so far and I would suggest that there are many other drivers who are simply blaming themselves.
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After the way that the VAG GROUP cheated emmisions tests and ignored consumer legislation around the world over DSG clutch problems it surprises me that anyone puts their money into their products. Do people research their cars before purchase in this the so called information age ?
Last edited by: Old Navy on Mon 17 Dec 18 at 17:29
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Does it always do this? I'm sure you are a competent driver but can the dealer pull away in the car without the kangarooing/ stalling? Worth going out in the car with him.
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"Does it always do this? I'm sure you are a competent driver but can the dealer pull away in the car without the kangarooing/ stalling? Worth going out in the car with him."
When I took it in, the dealer kept my car for a couple of days and gave me a similar (but 1.0tsi) courtesy car. The technical chap took my car out for a test drive and, especially from cold, reported the same 'kangarooing' as me. He didn't experience the same 'stalling', but then I only observed it 4 or 5 times in 2000 miles.
Skoda UK say that they are hoping (yes - HOPING) to find a fix in the second quarter of next year. Skoda will ring me again in early January to see how it's going. They have opened a 'complaint' case and would like to close it asap; I will, however, not permit them to close the case until a solution is found.
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Haywain - have you seen this?
Looks to be a similar report of an issue you're having, mention of a software fix on page 6 & 7
www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/444742-engine-revs-without-foot-on-accelarator/?page=7
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I would always suggest adding a few revs to a takeoff (I'm aware you probably are though). My old tech 2 litre Diesel could probably move away with just a smooth release of the clutch but even then it complains/judders but that is probably the 170,000 mile DPF about to throw a wobbly. I always try and drive with at least 2000rpm on the tacho.
Last edited by: nice but dim on Mon 17 Dec 18 at 18:52
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"Haywain - have you seen this?"
Thanks, nbd, I hadn't seen that thread; I guess you'll find similar comments across all the VAG medium sized cars where the 1.5 is available. It's such a great pity because a 1.5 petrol shoving out 150ps is fine for most people - and it's a very smooth and tractable engine once you get going.
I think the software fix described in that post was concerning slightly earlier engines; mine was declared to be 'up to date' when I took it to the dealer.
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>> Do people research their cars before purchase in this the so called information age ?
I read in another forum somone saying he bought Skoda Superb because it was much cheaper than Kia Optima sportwagon. That actually surprised me and then I discovered indeed like for like Skoda models cheaper than Kia's!
May be VW group is feeling the pinch and reduced their prices.
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>> Does it always do this? I'm sure you are a competent driver but can the
>> dealer pull away in the car without the kangarooing/ stalling? Worth going out in the
>> car with him.
>>
I’m not sure it affects every car...my father’s got an A3 with this engine, and he says his is fine. It replaces a 1.4, but he’s had a string of BMW and Audi petrol and diesel manuals over the almost 25 years since he retired, and he’d be the first to complain if there was something not right about this one!!
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I drive turbo diesel and have done for the last nearly 30 years.
My wife has a 1.2tsi petrol Beetle. I drive it quite regularly, a good few times per week. I always struggle with setting off from stationery. Don’t know if it’s the lack of noise compared to diesel or what but I always seem to have too few revs and regularly come close to stalling it!
Quite nippy once you get into 2nd gear though!
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>> I drive turbo diesel and have done for the last nearly 30 years.
More or less same here; diesel since April 1993. First two were not turbo charged but 1.9TGD BX seemed to have more poke than its 1.6RS predecessor. Less BHP but much more torque. The 1.7 XRD Pug 205 could be pushed through the lanes at a pace that wouldn't have been too far shamed by it's GTi version.
Petrol loan cars or either of my kids' Pug 107s are astonishingly easy to stall.
Haywain's problem though sounds like it's related to soft/firmware in a 'fly by wire' throttle.
Pity as I'm tempted by the Karoq as a tow car though given needs I'd probably look long/hard at diesel rather than petrol.
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"Pity as I'm tempted by the Karoq as a tow car though given needs I'd probably look long/hard at diesel rather than petrol."
I'd try and wait a year or two, and I'd guess you'd want the 2L diesel version for towing. I doubt that with the 1.5 petrol you'd be able to put up with the crockery smashing about during the kangarooing!
I say again - apart from that nauseating engine issue, the Karoq really is a lovely car to drive - it's comfortable, it handles beautifully and it's a nice height for getting in if you've got a dodgy back. And once you're moving, the engine is lively enough for all but the boy racers.
Last edited by: Haywain on Tue 18 Dec 18 at 22:29
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>> I'd try and wait a year or two, and I'd guess you'd want the 2L
>> diesel version for towing. I doubt that with the 1.5 petrol you'd be able to
>> put up with the crockery smashing about during the kangarooing!
Need may be imminent.
Current Berlingo is at it's limit towing our tiny Xplore 304. OK with two of us but Gross Train Weight complications make carrying passengers AND 'stuff' and exercise in arithmetical gymnastics.
The 304 is a lovely 'van but the small transverse bed with one of us trapped by the other when needing a leak in the night is, as we enter our sixties, not really working. All the big 'van builders do designs with twin fixed beds at rear which would be ideal. But with exception of one Lunar model which is same weight as the 304 they're all too heavy for Berlingo.
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"I’m not sure it affects every car...my father’s got an A3 with this engine, and he says his is fine."
I'm assuming that because the chap at the dealer's reported the same problem, then I'm not imagining it. I find it totally bizarre that some cars are affected whilst other aren't. Actually - I must admit that I've heard of VW, Skoda and Seat to be affected - but not Audi.
Peter - is your father's latest A3 manual as well?
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>> Peter - is your father's latest A3 manual as well?
>>
Yes, it’s a 6 speed manual 2017 8V A3 in Audi speak. A fairly early 1.5 I think; it replaced a 2015 1.4 that met an untimely end! So if it differed noticeably from the 1.4 I’m sure he’d have said something.
Last edited by: PeterS on Mon 17 Dec 18 at 21:27
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Cars meeting an untimely end doesn't seem to be all that rare in the 'S' family.
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>> Cars meeting an untimely end doesn't seem to be all that rare in the 'S'
>> family.
>>
It’s been an expensive couple of years for LV, that’s true!
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>> I think it is a "characteristic". A little more throttle when pulling away should cure
>> it. I have the 1.4 TSI engine in my Golf SV and I remember stalling
>> it a few times when I got it but no problems now.
>>
SEAT Atecas have just started to be delivered with the 1.5 engine and on the Ateca forum I'm a member of there are already several threads from new owners having issues with it - one is from someone who previously had a 1.4 and had no problems with it.
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Well, I am now back at Stansted and in a taxi. My hire car in Spain this week was a Seat Leon, petrol, 6 speed. Avis email all rental docs (which I didn’t read) but it was nippy enough, and averaged a frankly unbelievable 60mlg based on 350kms travelled and 27 litres of fuel added. I assumed it was a 1.4 or 1.5 with around 150PS from the way it drove. Turns out it was a 1.2 with 110! What do I know, so, if you’re bothered about the 1.5, buy a 1.2!
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>> Turns out it was a 1.2 with 110! What do I know, so, if you’re bothered about the 1.5, buy a 1.2!
>>
They've dropped that engine and replaced it with the 1 litre 115PS.
Last edited by: Bill Payer on Thu 20 Dec 18 at 17:30
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A serious question.
Why choose a manual?
I haven't owned a car with a manual box for nearly 30yrs and after spending 3 months in Spain this year with various manual hire cars I'm not going to change. I just don't see any advantages for manual box's anymore.
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My wife's car and my son's car are manuals, and to be fair, I do kind of enjoy driving them for about 20 minutes, probably mainly to remind myself that I still can, but in truth, I get bored with the stick stirring and left leg pumping fairly quickly, and am very happy to get back into my auto.
Here's an odd thing though, which I can't begin to explain, if I have a LHD hire car, I don't mind a manual at all, in fact it just feels so much more "natural" to use my right hand to change gear despite having learned to drive in the UK and indeed spent many years in RHD manuals.
Suppose I must just be wired up strangely.
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>>Suppose I must just be wired up strangely.
Welcome to the club.
:o}
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>> A serious question.
>>
>> Why choose a manual?
>>
>> I haven't owned a car with a manual box for nearly 30yrs and after spending
>> 3 months in Spain this year with various manual hire cars I'm not going to
>> change. I just don't see any advantages for manual box's anymore.
>>
The advantage for me is enjoyment. I’ve alternate between autos and manuals over the last 20 years and I enjoy driving my manual BMW far more than the auto MINI. I am fortunate enough not to sit in busy traffic very often though; if I did, it might be a different story. It’s car dependant though; the Merc I had before wouldn’t have suited a manual gearbox. But a smallish, powerful-ish, 6 cylinder RWD car suits a manual for my type of driving. I’m slightly disappointed that it’s replacement is likely to be an auto
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>>I haven't owned a car with a manual box for nearly 30yrs
Same 'ere. I had a new Jazz with a stick shift as a loan car recently, which was okay I must admit, but I wouldn't ever even think about buying a manual car again.
The CVT in my Subaru XV changes just like a TC box I'm pleased to say.
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After many years of stick shifts, it can be hard getting used to an automatic. Left-foot braking should be used and there have been numerous reports of older drivers stamping on the wrong pedal, sometimes with fatal results.
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>> After many years of stick shifts, it can be hard getting used to an automatic.
>> Left-foot braking should be used and there have been numerous reports of older drivers stamping
>> on the wrong pedal, sometimes with fatal results.
They are mostly drivers who shouldn't be driving - period, nothing to do with an auto, other than getting an auto allows drivers to be in the pilots seat well past their safety sell by date.
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Back to the OP's issue, its almost certainly a mapping issue, VAG have probably pushed the "lean" envelope too far to meet the "claimed" MPG under the new EU mandated MPG/Emissions testing.
When you think about it, getting HP out of a small turbo petrol at low revs (and hence low turbo pressure) is always going to be a problem unless you supercharge or precharge it in some way.
So a shed load of revs and little clutch slip should get you over your dangerous issue till they fix it.
Also being a miller cycle engine, it is inherently "wrong" for low end torque, which is why they are used coupled with hybrids mostly. As this one will be.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 18 Dec 18 at 11:13
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>>...When you think about it, getting HP out of a small turbo petrol at low revs (and hence low turbo pressure) is always going to be a problem unless you supercharge or precharge it in some way. >>
Which is just why I'm reluctant to even think about changing my 170 1.4 TSi petrol engined Jetta even after more than eight years ownership (it's a May 2007 registered vehicle). It's a hoot to drive, with a smooth and consistent torque output to around 4,500rpm and at least 80 per cent to the maximum 7,000rpm.
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>> When you think about it, getting HP out of a small turbo petrol at low
>> revs (and hence low turbo pressure) is always going to be a problem unless you
>> supercharge or precharge it in some way.
>>
VAG doesn't seem to have the same issue with the 1 litre engine. Daughter has one in Ateca and it sets off from rest well enough.
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I always have had and enjoyed driving a manual. Having recently developed golfer’s. elbow, and I don’t even play golf, I’m wishing I gad got the automatic!
Sitting in Dover Ferry terminal having missed my ferry and waiting for the next one. Hour and a half delay on the M11 this morning. Car on fire near the M25 junction.
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>>After many years of stick shifts, it can be hard getting used to an automatic
After many years of automatics, I can jump into a manual car and think nothing ovvit, but then I learnt on a manual.
The ole woman learnt on an auto and has never driven a manual, and wouldn't want to either.
I never use left-foot braking BTW.
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>> After many years of automatics, I can jump into a manual car and think nothing
>> ovvit, but then I learnt on a manual.
>> The ole woman learnt on an auto and has never driven a manual, and wouldn't
>> want to either.
I'm the same. My current car is my first auto, but I still have no issue jumping back into a manual.
Modern automatics are incredible though. Quick witted, smooth, completely unobtrusive and they never feel like they are robbing the car of performance like the old ones used to. The ZF8 used by BMW, Jaguar and others is a real game changer. You cannot feel up-shifts at all on light to medium throttle. The engine note changes, the rev counter needle moves, and there is no other sense at all that anything has happened. Acceleration is seamless.
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I've always sworn that I'd never go down the CVT route, having tuned and driven many a daft Daf back in the day, but this 'ere Lineartronic fitted to the latest Subarus works just like a slushbox really.
It holds on hills (handy in Cornwall) and creeps plus, mated to a 2ltr boxer it's quite quick orf the mark too.
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>> I've always sworn that I'd never go down the CVT route, having tuned and driven
>> many a daft Daf back in the day, but this 'ere Lineartronic fitted to the
>> latest Subarus works just like a slushbox really.
>> It holds on hills (handy in Cornwall) and creeps plus, mated to a 2ltr boxer
>> it's quite quick orf the mark too.
I was pleasantly surprised by a CVT as well. I took a Multitronic Audi A4 2.0 diesel on a 2,600 mile road trip across Europe a couple of summers ago. Once you get used to it initially feeling "weird", it actually works really well. The hill descent thing is really odd the first time it happens. I thought at first the engine was running away until I worked out what was going on.
The Multitronic is, by all accounts, an absolute dog reliability-wise though, which would put me off ever buying one.
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>>Once you get used to it initially feeling "weird", it actually works really well
That's the thing you see, I don't get 'weird' with the Lineartronic, it performs just like the slushbox in my previous stodgy CRV, but is more fuel efficient.
>>The Multitronic is, by all accounts, an absolute dog reliability-wise
Say n'more, I've read a lot about them :(
BTW, I've owned a lot of cars with automatic transmissions since the 1970's, and only had trouble with one of them ... an old Riley Kestrel 1300 I bought for the ole woman to learn on :)
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>> The ZF8
>> used by BMW, Jaguar and others is a real game changer. You cannot feel up-shifts
>> at all on light to medium throttle. The engine note changes, the rev counter needle
>> moves, and there is no other sense at all that anything has happened. Acceleration is
>> seamless.
The ZF8HP75 in the G31 is a stormer. As noted it feels like a well sorted TC box, when you want to cruise about. And alltho it does have TC elements in it, its capable of free wheeling and or locking out the TC and using proper gear set selection, jumping two or more gears at a time.
Stick it in sports plus mode, give it full welly and it does full throttle blip upshifts that feel exactly like clutchless racing sequential box changes in a BTCC car, each gear accompanied by a spinetingling kick in your pants and burble from the engine.
you need to plan it tho, its a bit of a slug to wake up when mooching about.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 18 Dec 18 at 16:17
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>>Left-foot braking should be used
Nonsense.
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I use either foot for braking on an auto, more or less randomly, oh dear, does that make me a bad person? :-(
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>> I use either foot for braking on an auto, more or less randomly, oh dear,
>> does that make me a bad person? :-(
>>
Only 50% bad. :-)
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Oh well, I guess we all have dark sides...
;-)
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As Zero says, it sounds like a mapping issue which could be fixed with a software update. It would also explain why people with Audis and other VAG group brands with the same engine aren't experiencing it. The basic hardware is much the same across all the VAG brands, but the calibration and set up tends to be brand-specific.
It wouldn't be the first time a manufacturer has optimised for good test results at the expense of 'driveability'. Alfa Romeo had issues with some of the Twin Spark engines in the 90s which had a flat spot at a certain point in the rev range as a result of tweaking the engine for good fuel economy results. In this case, the aftermarket tuners stepped in and offered revised maps that eliminated the issue, and transformed the way the car drove, without any perceptible change in real world economy.
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" it sounds like a mapping issue which could be fixed with a software update"
That's what I'm hoping for, though as I mentioned above, a fix isn't likely to be introduced until the second quarter of next year.
"It would also explain why people with Audis and other VAG group brands with the same engine aren't experiencing it."
Again, as I mentioned above, owners' forums are reporting similar problems across Skoda, VW and Seat ranges. I have not read about Audi, but then I haven't looked.
If, for example, you look on HJ's c by c breakdown, you'll read about the issue on VW's T-roc.
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>> After many years of stick shifts, it can be hard getting used to an automatic.
>> Left-foot braking should be used and there have been numerous reports of older drivers stamping
>> on the wrong pedal, sometimes with fatal results.
>>
Since getting our Jazz CVT I always left foot brake. Once your brain gets used to sending the right signal to your left foot (about 4 or 5 days for me) it's just as instinctive as using the right foot.
I went for a test drive in an M-B A Class 150 CVT the other day and the dealer was astonished at my using left foot braking. (Did not buy it, BTW.- one name in the V5 and an odd hiatus of it having two MOTs within 4 months and 850 miles, which I queried by email a day later, caused the dealer to respond "don't worry about the car it's potentially sold"!
It's still listed on Autotrader a week later !!!
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A choice, I guess. These don't look cheap, I just grabbed this link as an illustration.
www.tuningbox.com/en/petrol-performance-chip-tuning/cars/skoda/karoq/1-5-tsi-150.htm
I did do something like this to a BMW that was giving me trouble at one stage. It fixed the problem and BMW never picked up on it. Mind you, that was a few years ago no doubt things are more sophisticated now.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Tue 18 Dec 18 at 20:50
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"A choice, I guess. These don't look cheap,"
I'm afraid I wouldn't have the guts to try it while the car is still well inside its warranty period and awaiting a possible factory update. That's a hell of a boost, though.
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My issue with these plug in tuning boxes is that, despite the claims to the contrary, they cause the ECU to lose full control of the engine. They work by modifying the signals sent by the ECU to the injectors, boost control and timing, and also modifying the signals sent back to the ECU from the relevant sensors. So, as far as the ECU is concerned, it is sending and receiving expected information, but what is actually happening at the engine end is something very different. They do work, and can be very effective, but it renders the safety parameters built into the map irrelevant, as the ECU isn't actually "seeing" a real picture of what the engine is doing.
The manufacturers claim the boxes don't mess with the safety parameters in the ECU, and that is technically correct, but when the system is being cheated by fudging what the ECU is seeing, those parameters become pretty worthless.
For the same reason, the claimed fuel economy improvements can also be taken with a pinch of salt, as the on board computer will show improved figures as the ECU assumes the fuel and boost are running at normal levels when in fact the engine is injecting more fuel and running more boost in reality than the ECU sees. So you can use lighter throttle to get the same result, which shows a falsely higher reading on the computer which is simply making calculations based on a standard engine.The measured fuel consumption will generally be significantly worse than the numbers on the computer anyway, but a tuning box will increase that gap.
At least a remap keeps the communication between the ECU and engine accurate, and ensures that if anything dangerous occurs, the relevant corrective measures can be applied in the normal way.
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My car has a torque converter fitted CVT. Seamless and smooth, even in its flappy paddles seven speed virtual manual mode. Not that I use it, the computer knows best!
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Daughter bought a new Audi A3 saloon fitted with this 1.5 litre engine back in the summer.
She has experienced none of the problems described.
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Audi's tend to be configured as a more sporty brand, I suspect it has a more aggressive engine map
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SEAT owner on the Ateca forum with this issue has today been told there's a software issue and SEAT are working on it - expected to take a couple of weeks. In the meantime he's been put in an A6 estate, whIch he's quite pleased about.
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"SEAT owner on the Ateca forum with this issue has today been told there's a software issue and SEAT are working on it - expected to take a couple of weeks. In the meantime he's been put in an A6 estate, whIch he's quite pleased about."
Have you got a link for that, please, Bill?
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>> Have you got a link for that, please, Bill?
>>
www.atecaforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=2782
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Many thanks for the link ; I'll check later after tonight's choir concert.
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1.5 3-cyl turbo petrol140ps in the front of the 225xe is not too bad, with a nice note when pressing on. Uses a 6 spd auto rather than the 8 spd ZF unit though, and the changes aren't as silken as the 8 speeder.
The additional 90PS electric unit on the rear wheels makes it silly fast away from the line.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Thu 20 Dec 18 at 17:44
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I see that Ford are using a new 1.5l 3-cylinder engine in the new Focus. Let’s hope it’s more resilient than the 1.0 EcoBoost!
I always thought that manufacturers and motoring journalists poo-pooed 3 cylinder engines as being coarse and imbalanced? What changed?!
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>>I always thought that manufacturers and motoring journalists poo-pooed 3 cylinder engines as being coarse and imbalanced? What changed?!
I understand 4 cylinder engines are out of balance without a lanchester shaft.
I used to love the sound of 3 cylinder two strokes of Saab and Wartburgs.
Last edited by: bathtub tom on Thu 20 Dec 18 at 22:56
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>> I see that Ford are using a new 1.5l 3-cylinder engine in the new Focus.
>> Let’s hope it’s more resilient than the 1.0 EcoBoost!
>>
>> I always thought that manufacturers and motoring journalists poo-pooed 3 cylinder engines as being coarse
>> and imbalanced? What changed?!
I'm a big fan of the 1.0 Ecoboost. Lighter, more frugal and torquier than a 1.6 litre NA engine, tiny, for flexible packaging, and makes a great noise as well. Brilliant little thing, in my opinion.
The engine's reputation for poor durability is unfair in my view. It only ever really had one issue, which was with a poor choice of material for one of the coolant pipes (known as the 'degas pipe'. The fact that the resulting coolant leak went on to cause major failure of the engine in many cases is unfortunate, but the fault itself is with a relatively cheap, and easily replaced external component, and is easily rectified. The base engine itself is strong, and has been successfully tuned to around 170 bhp without issue.
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"I'm a big fan of the 1.0 Ecoboost. "
My wife has the 125 ps version in her B-max - it's a great little engine, and when you put your foot down, it sounds like a 3-cylinder motor bike.
But we are in danger of drifting off thread; it's the VAG 1.5 that I'm worried about - along with many others who are realising that the problem lies with their cars, not their driving ability.
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Has someone finally hit VW with the honesty stick?
www.honestjohn.co.uk/news/owning-1/2019-01/volkswagen-acknowledges-problem-with-15-tsi-evo-engine/
This will provide ammunition for those who are contemplating or, in the process of, rejecting their cars. On the other hand, I suspect that VW might be clearing the way to announcing that they have found a solution. Having worked for a German company for 28 years, they do tend to assume that everyone else is stupid.
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"I think it is a "characteristic". A little more throttle when pulling away should cure it."
[CGN, 17 Dec 18].
As an update to this thread, Skoda has now admitted to a problem; I do not know what is happening across the rest of VAG. My car has gone back to the dealer (a decent chap) and, for this week, I have a Rapid Sport until next weekend when a (probably) 2L diesel Karoq will be available while the software fix is sorted out for my car. VAG is still talking about 2nd quarter of this year. I also have on record that if the fix takes too long or doesn't work, I can have my money back.
A number of us have written to the DVSA but I don't know if this has been an influence on Skoda's apparent change of heart.
It would appear that VAG is, shamefully, still selling cars with this engine .......... talk to me before you buy one.
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I've now been given a brand new 2L diesel Karoq Scout 4x4 as a courtesy car. Some nice features in addition to those of the SEL, but a bit of a tart's handbag. I'm not complaining, though.
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Join the club. Sitty up 4x4 barbie mobiles rule ok.
See you at the tanning salon....
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"Join the club. Sitty up 4x4 barbie mobiles rule ok. "
What are you mincing around in, LL?
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The past 6 weeks a Pug 208 1.2 Allure ex Alicante. I think it’s a 3 cyl, but no idea of donkey power. !
Off to Ibiza Monday, ex Valencia, with Ryanair for a few days. 3 euros for 48 hours, two drivers ‘full to full’ with OK Cars. No idea what I’ll be driving there, but for 3 euros I’m not bothered
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Skoda - VW/Audi group - I.5 tsi engine - think carefully! - CGNorwich
