I'm not sure how interested readers here actually are in EV stuff, but then if I apply the "has to be interesting" filter to my posts, I'd have to retrospectively delete eleven thousand of them, and I frankly don't have the time.
So, in case it's slipped by anyone, yet another 30k EV is launched. looks very nice, once again range is about 300 miles (at best). Available in the UK from March.
Has the 100 billion gigawatt charging system that means it should be reasonably swift to get going again after the first 300 miles, and lots of toys.
Personally I think this kind of product is leaving Teslas at twice the price way behind, unless you want supercar performance of course. But there we are.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=AR5sDwF5aBM
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Tesla are making 5000+ Model 3s every week plus 1000 or so Model S and X.
Hyundai/KIA are struggling to get up to 5000 per month but they're still so far ahead of the rest of the 'legacy' manufacturers. Nissan, BMW, Renault and VW are still farting around with 120-170 mile cars.
Next year the new Soul EV is also due with the same running gear as Niro/Kona.
250-300 miles is genuinely manageable in all of the 64kWh Korean cars.
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I am very interested CC on the whole electric subject.
Been doing a lot of reading about the Niro PHEV with range of about 30 miles.
Could really work for me. But still not convinced on the running costs in winter when you need to have the petrol engine running for heating and demisting.
/would like a PHEV that can defrost and heat up on my driveway whilst hooked up to the electrics. But that then takes you to a higher price bracket.
Also what about the depreciation of PHEV as EV developments increase? If I buy a one year old PHEV Niro, whats its resale value in say 3 years when EVs with 300 mile range may be all the norm?
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>> Also what about the depreciation of PHEV as EV developments increase? If I buy a
>> one year old PHEV Niro, whats its resale value in say 3 years when EVs
>> with 300 mile range may be all the norm?
>>
I guess for the time being they are a better option if leased. The lease company has to worry about the depreciation.
I also suspect that the manufacturers have a "roadmap" of range upgrades that are designed to bring improvements and reduce costs without alienating current owners too much.
I also expect other technologies to come in to common use like ultra light weight materials to increase range whilst battery technology improvements take more time. Expect to see carbon fibre roofs, holes drilled in unseen components to reduce weight further, ultra thin tyres to reduce rolling resistance etc.
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>>Expect to see carbon fibre roofs, holes drilled in unseen components
Why do I have a vision of a car made from Meccano..........
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>> >>Expect to see carbon fibre roofs, holes drilled in unseen components
>>
>> Why do I have a vision of a car made from Meccano..........
>>
even worse - plastic meccano
Does anybody else remember TRIX as a product to aspire to? (Before it became a Cereal Bar!)
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Why would an average consumer buy EV when an ICE car is cheaper and more convenient?
In the 1980s there was a trend that we'd run out of fuel soon but now it is no longer the issue. In fact, fuel price is coming down again.
I think now it is good time to buy a diesel instead :-)
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>> Why would an average consumer buy EV when an ICE car is cheaper and more
>> convenient?
>>
>> In the 1980s there was a trend that we'd run out of fuel soon but
>> now it is no longer the issue. In fact, fuel price is coming down again.
>>
>> I think now it is good time to buy a diesel instead :-)
>>
>>
>>
This is a discussion about a particular EV.
We all know that the equivalent ICE models are significantly cheaper.
The point is that the new technology needs to start somewhere and then improve overtime.
Your post seems to be nothing but trolling. Again.
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It's certainly true that on paper, you can't make the numbers add up for EV, as a rule.
For me, putting that aside, there are some sort of environmental considerations, and there's no getting away from the fact that an EV is fantastic to drive, making other cars feel a bit primitive.
The limited range was also a thing for me, but now they have got to where they have, another EV would be on my shopping list. However, I'd have to win the pools I don't do first, so I stick with the petrol car for now, and probably forever. I think there will still be petrol cars on the road for the rest of my driving life, though perhaps not diesel.
Ho hum.
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At present an EV would work fine for my current use except I do not want to spend funds on a new or nearly new car when my current car should outlast me or I give up driving.
It is 10 years old and 40K on the clock but 20+ mpg plus £500 for road fund.
In just a few years time maybe a S/H offering would interest me as a 250 mile range would mean home charging only and no worry about range.
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>> Your post seems to be nothing but trolling. Again.
And given that you've attracted a level of frownies normally reserved for me, I'm guessing the current read-onlies includes a bunch of spineless fellow trolls amused by it.
How small their life must be.
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>>I think now it is good time to buy a diesel instead
Indeed with fat discounts due to levels of hysteria in the press about diesel being outlawed etc.
Of course, my use pattern made a 100mile range Mercedes B Class stack up for me.
£20k car (after discount) at 6yr 0%
£0 VED
£0 fuel cost over 15k miles so far
£68 first year service
0-60 in <7secs, smooth as silk.
Biggest let down is the FWD can't handle the torque (think 180bhp turbodiesel performance with zero throttle lag)
Totally useless if I was doing >75miles a day with any regularity though (typical winter range)
Pity Mercedes didn't develop it properly - there is room for a lot more battery capacity (both around the current battery and where they intended a fuel cell stack to fit), and with DC rapid charging it would've been the best EV below a Tesla.
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>> Pity Mercedes didn't develop it properly - there is room for a lot more battery
>> capacity (both around the current battery and where they intended a fuel cell stack to
>> fit), and with DC rapid charging it would've been the best EV below a Tesla.
>>
the battery and thus range is probably the biggest change to come in the next few years leaving a lot of today's EVs looking a bit limited, but for those who drive new or nearly new they are making more and more sense for more and more people.
We do need to resolve the charger infrastructure especially for those who have no ability to have a charger at home.
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Some very back of a fag packet maths:
New Kona Premium SE Diesel 1.6 AUTO (to be comparable with the auto EV) is £24,900. The 64kw version is £35,145.
Company car mileage reimbursement rates are 10ppm and 2ppm respectively so I will take these as crude costs per mile.
Not taking in to account differences in duty, servicing costs etc, the EV would become cheaper to run at 128,063 miles.
Taking the cheaper Kona Premium DCT auto against the lower KW Kona EV the pay back time is 77,750 miles - i.e. within the life of the car.
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>>New Kona Premium SE Diesel 1.6 AUTO...at 128,063 miles.
Which for that model would have produced 23.4 tons of CO2...
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I recall work doing similar calcs when I got my first Ford Escort company car. The choice was diesel or petrol. Diesel won out because it became more cost effective at about 30,000 miles.
Gawd that was an awful car.
Given the range of the Kona and Nero, they are game changers and a potential good use for the wasted wind generated power generated at night.
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>>Gawd that was an awful car.
Mate had an Escort 1.6D which I drove back from Aberdeen to Edinburgh - they long uphill on the M90 south of Perth needed full beans in 3rd gear just to maintain 50mph - amazingly gutless.
His next car, an Orion 1.8D was a veritable rocketship in comparison.
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>>Ford Escort.
>>Mate had an Escort 1.6D which I drove back from Aberdeen to Edinburgh - they long uphill >>on the M90 south of Perth needed full beans in 3rd gear just to maintain 50mph - >>amazingly gutless.
If I recall, it was just a diesel, not a turbo diesel and yes, gutless it was.
It also didn't have power steering and the steering was incredibly heavy.
There was a fault with the radio that made it too hot to touch after a long journey.
The fuel gauge also didn't work.
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As a company car user who doesn't do interstellar mileage (about 25k per year including private mileage) an EV with a range of 250-300 miles starts to look viable. Might need to stop for a charge for an hour on the return leg of a journey perhaps a couple of times per month, but that would give a sensible rest break from driving anyway.
For me, the main economic question is that of BIK tax, rather than purchase price. On that count, an e-Niro (for 2020 tax year, when I'm due a change) is c. £300 tax per annum, rather than around £300 per MONTH for a similar sized diesel. That would be cheap motoring for me!
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>>As a company car user....
If only my employers' lease scheme did them. A charge at the client when I get there at 9:30 and leave at 16:00 would see me good for over 90% of the journeys home.
Only one of my clients has dedicated charging points in their car park but others have mentioned that they will be installing them for exactly the same reasons - their company car drivers are requesting them.
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>>If I recall, it was just a diesel, not a turbo diesel and yes, gutless it was.
>>It also didn't have power steering and the steering was incredibly heavy
Yup, 1.6 n/a diesel pumping out a whopping 55bhp or so. It did 65-75mpg on the Aberdeen/Edinburgh run every time though.
The steering was super-heavy and iirc the turning circle was rubbish compared to the Orion that followed (which had PAS)
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Those early Ford 1.6 and 1.8 n/a diesels were poor starters in cold weather too. The Peugeot/Citroen XUD units were no bother at all, provided you waited for the glow plug light to go out.
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>> Those early Ford 1.6 and 1.8 n/a diesels were poor starters in cold weather too.
>> The Peugeot/Citroen XUD units were no bother at all, provided you waited for the glow
>> plug light to go out.
Ah yes, my ole pug 405 XUD, an excellent excellent car. The 1.9XUD was a peach, albeit a little agricultural by todays standards, and you needed 2k revs and bit of clutch slip to nip out into busy roundabouts.
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Visited Kia dealer last week for some minor work in my car.
Wanted to see Niro EV but there was none. The dealer said Kia would provide every UK dealer only 2 Niro EVs initially as supply is very tight.
I wanted to have a look at normal Niro hybrid and there was none either (including used)!
There was around 50 Kias in their fourcourt but not a single Niro. Salesman said Niros come rarely in used market and they are snapped as soon as they appear.
But car salesmen and Estate Agents are always trustworthy.
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>>But car salesmen and Estate Agents are always trustworthy.
They come from the same mould as politicians.
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Supply of Niro hybrid and PHEV is tight.
I believe each dealer will have 5 Niro EV to sell in the next 12 months, with first orders in January and deliveries from April.
Guaranteed full asking price sales must be a novelty for any dealer outside Porsche and Tesla.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Mon 17 Dec 18 at 22:06
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>>Guaranteed full asking price sales must be a novelty for any dealer outside Porsche and Tesla.
About 15 years ago, when my dad retired he was looking at a new Honda. Not a hugely expensive model but the best part of about £17k new.
He asked for the dealer's best price and was told in no uncertain terms to go away and save up a little more until he could afford it. The dealership is no longer there, brought out by Hyundai and different owners.
Their loss. He went and brought a Toyota and was very happy with it for a number of years.
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Here's a more thorough review of the Niro EV
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccSxZ7BXfTo
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>>
>> Guaranteed full asking price sales must be a novelty for any dealer outside Porsche and
>> Tesla.
>>
Back in 2001 I ordered a then new MINI Cooper. No discount at all to be had, despite the raft of options. Contrast that to the MiNI I bought this year, which was even more highly specc’ed and has a list price two and a half times that of the early one. Almost 14% off. Had it been a BMW add 10% to that discount. But BMW and MINI now sell not far off 250,000 cars a year in the UK, which is also probably up two and a half times since 2001...
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The culture of discounting is built in to the business model of the motor trade and has been for many years. Sometimes I think it's regrettable, and wish there was one of transparent fair pricing.
Unfortunately, or at least some of us feel so, the discount culture is percolating through most retail sectors, exacerbated by the ease with which prices can be compared using the Internet.
I was in the city of York a couple of weeks ago, a normally bustling shopping area. It was a bright, crisp, sunny December weekday lunchtime and the streets were more or less deserted. Car parks were half empty and retailers I spoke to were complaining of lack of customers.
As I drove out of the city, I passed the out of town "Designer Outlet" retail park which, conversely, had a queue of vehicles waiting to get in.
It might be short term good news for consumers, but it's the race to the bottom for the economy.
We should always be careful what we wish for.
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>> We should always be careful what we wish for.
>>
Absolutely, look at the high street in any major town, the rise of the internet and online shopping gets the blame but it is the choices we make every day that are the real cause of the decline.
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>> choices we make every day
While internet has definitely a role to play, the councils obessions to treat motorists with contempt (no free parking, confusing/unnecessary bus lanes, one-ways, over use of double yellow lines etc.) has a bigger contribution for demise of High St.
Those in the trade also blame unrealistic business rates.
Retail parks are better. Usually free (and plenty of) parking. Even if price is slightly higher in brick & mortar stores, I prefer to buy from there rather than internet.
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"...the discount culture is percolating through most retail sectors"
Especially with Christmas trees.
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Yeah, some cracking deals to be had on those next week I hear...
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On the other hand, Designer goods are priced outrageously high, way out of proportion, foisted onto a gullible public by heavy advertising.
I shall be off to Ashford outlet on Friday to get such goods at more realistic pricing.
The high street demise is caused by several factors. Mostly leveraged by outs saddling unsustainable debts onto flagship retail departments stores, leading to their closure and removal of the anchor draw, speculative rents, poor urban planning which includes travel and car parking, and lets be honest, a complete lack of focus and inspiration by high street retailers.
Shopping on line is an insular experience, one that most women have embraced not by choice but by nessesity
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New Kia Nero EV - Lygonos
