I have a simple question, but I'm jiggered if Mr Google can give me an answer, at least not immediately. I've just spent about half an hour in the railway byways, and discovered lots of things, but I've not answered it.
So here is my question.
When I was little, I lived in Bedford. My gran lived in London. We used to go and visit her sometimes, and took the train. I remember that.
What I don't remember is whether or not I might have ever travelled on a steam train. I would think the earliest would be when I was about four or five, so about 1966/7.
I imagine there was no steam from Bedford to St Pancras by then...or was there, just? Assuming I did miss steam on that line, by how much did I miss it? A year? A decade? More?
Maybe I went as a babe in arms as well, so 1962/3, but of course I don't remember that.
Someone here will know in a heartbeat, I hope?
Last edited by: Crankcase on Fri 28 Sep 18 at 17:34
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I can't answer your question Crankcase but you jogged a lovely memory in my mind.
When I was about 4 years old I went on a steam train with my parents from Peterborough to Littleport.
It was the old style carriages with long bench seats facing each other and my Dad told me to kneel on the seat and push on the back as hard as I could to get it moving.
For years I thought it was really me that got that train out of the station!
He died when I was 11.
Pat
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My dad liked steam trains - he used to work on them earlier in his life. So when we were on holiday in Barry south Wales we went to the scrap yard and saw loads. He enjoyed being there. Sadly my dad died when I was 10 so never really got to know from him too much of his life - he did loads including bus/coach driving, had a taxi company, nearly became a driving instructor. He learned to drive things in the army on his national service.
First steam train I went on was from Minehead - a tourist short ride to somewhere. And then more recently on the North Yorkshire trainline which was good.
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>> When I was about 4 years old I went on a steam train with my
>> parents from Peterborough to Littleport.
>>
>> It was the old style carriages with long bench seats facing each other and my
>> Dad told me to kneel on the seat and push on the back as hard
>> as I could to get it moving.
As that was the old Great Eastern, they would be old Gresley Teaks, built sometime between 1923 and 1949.
last time I went on one, would be between 1960 and 1966, on what was called "the stratford low level" to the docks. They had windows on leather straps. Would have been hauled by a tank engine. That is now the DLR.
As it happens I saw a rake of Gresley Teaks behind a Schools Class "Repton" at the NYMR this week.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 28 Sep 18 at 18:30
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I remember those leather straps....I wasn't allowed to touch them!
Pat
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>> I remember those leather straps....I wasn't allowed to touch them!
yeah the windows was heavy and would drop down, and of course everyone inside got showered with ash.
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Unlikely, I believe the last Steam Train into St Pancras was in 1964 and I don't think that was a passenger service. May have been a beer train from Burton on Trent.
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1968 was the last steam train service.
I don't know the routes well enough to be sure, but it appears that the last Bedford steam service would have been 1965.
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Thanks all. I really thought there was going to be some sort of equivalent to Bradshaw's that told you the exact moment the last steam train ran from every station in the UK and you'd all know it by heart. If there isn't such a thing, or someone hasn't put one together, I'm amazed.
Sounds like I probably missed it then, although it's just possible still. How very Hogwarts.
Nice story Pat, bless you.
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Their probably is a definite "last service source" for every one, and I can probably find it by asking around, but it wont be a quick answer.
The problem was that steam withdrawal was very piecemeal and much delayed, sometimes withdrawn then brought back for operational reasons. Everyone knows the last one anywhere ever as its a well documented event - The 15 Guinea special behind 70013 Oliver Cromwell, but the odd steam goods popped up all over the place, even after the steam ban.
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Crikey Z, no need to ask around, it's only an idle question. Thanks for the thought though, and explanation.
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>> Sounds like I probably missed it then, although it's just possible still. How very Hogwarts.
Ironically of course there are few steam specials every year through Bedford.
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I used to travel from Luton to Bedford regularly from '65 to '68. I recall stream loco's being used, but can't recall if and when they stopped.
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I grew up in St Albans and there were steam trains well into the 60s.
When the replacement diesel railcars were introduced, they were very unreliable, and they kept the old steam engines in reserve. I remember fairly often sitting waiting after a breakdown for the real engine to arrive to tow the train to St Pancras.
Also the railcars were hopeless in snow or ice, or the wrong kind of leaves.
I can't swear to the very last ever use of steam, but I worked for a few weeks in the summer of 1967 in my father's place in London, and remember the railcars overheating and having to be rescued by a steam engine.
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There were definitely steam trains coming in and out of Edinburgh Waverley in the mid 60s. My walking route to and from school involved crossing Princes St gardens through which the main line connecting Waverley and Haymarket stations ran. Still does as far as I know. Anyway, as kids we used to stand on the railway bridges in the gardens to deliberately get engulfed by the smoke from the trains. Not sure why. Seemed to be an opportunity to hit or give a dead leg to a companion without being seen mainly.
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Sat 29 Sep 18 at 09:59
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Some history here:
www.railcar.co.uk/type/class-127/operations
www.railcar.co.uk/type/class-127/background
Those articles suggest diesel service began in spring/summer 1960 but that unit reliability was an ongoing problem.
Another piece here by a driver:
www.railcar.co.uk/topic/features/cricklewood-driver/
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Right here we go, from a well known GCR/Midland railway gricer
Steam workings north of Bedford ran until at least the winter of 1963 with steam traction noted during the first 3 months of 1963 at least - mainly covering for failed diesel traction with both heating and frozen diesel problems adding to the reason for failures.
My observations during this period around the Kettering / Corby area included :
JANUARY : 45288; 73143; 45572 Eire; 45088;
FEBRUARY : 45706 Express; 45585 Hyderabad; 45569 Tasmania; 45579 Punjab;
MARCH : 45597 Barbados;
APRIL : -
MAY : 45269;
JUNE : 45664 Nelson;
JULY : -
AUGUST : 45703 Thunderer; 73144;
SEPTEMBER : 44806;
OCTOBER : -
NOVEMBER : 70010 Owen Glendower;
DECEMBER : -
The above sightings were of trains working to / from London whose locomotives were expected to work into St Pancras
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I am a train lover :-)
During my childhood days, there were several trains in India which were pulled by steam locos.
The important ones, which I rode and could remember are:
Taj Express - travelled from Delhi to Agra to see Taj Mahal.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taj_Express
I remember I caught speck of coal dust in my eyes while trying to look outside the window.
I also rode the Nilgiri Mountain Railway, which was pulled by steam loco.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nilgiri_Mountain_Railway
I also rode Simla Toy Train.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalka%E2%80%93Shimla_railway
Though it had steam loco that time, my train was pulled by a diesel loco.
Never rode to Darjeeling Himalayan Railway - though it is in my bucket list.
In 1980s there were still few trains those were hauled by steam locos in India. When travelling by train in India it was quite common sight to see steam locos passing by.
The National Railway Museum in Delhi is a place worth visiting if you are a train fan.
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There have been a few Indian railway programmes on the tv, movi, and we've always enjoyed those, especially the hill railway ones. Is it still a job for life?
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>> There have been a few Indian railway programmes on the tv, movi, and we've always enjoyed those, especially the hill railway ones. Is it still a job for life?
Yes, job in Indian Railways still for life :-)
testbook.com/blog/15-reasons-indian-railways-is-the-best-employer/
Yes, I also enjoy BBC shows on Indian Railways.
One of my first job assignments was to teach Oracle database to Indian Railways employees in one small town in North East India. After I entered the room, I realized I was talking to people who never saw a computer! That was hilarious experience. It was that moment when I realized how rural India was 20 years behind urban India (even today, that is still the case).
During my childhood days, I travelled extensively all over India. In those pre-internet era, my dad often booked railway "retiring rooms" where we stayed for short durations. My hobby was to get up early in the morning and stare at trains for hours :-)
I have a small garden railway in my house (in UK). It is an expensive hobby and since my wife is not very happy on "wasting money" it remained a very small railway.
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Interesting stuff, movi. India is one of those places I've not got to, but I'd like to. Did you see Michael Wood's India series? Really very enjoyable.
My grandfather was born in India. We think it was about 1880 ish, but nobody in the family seems to know where exactly. He came "home" at the age of ten or so, and his father was "something in the military" according to my mum, so I guess all very colonial stuff.
I bet HE went on steam trains over there.
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>> Movilogo and his train memories
Fascinating.
When you came to the UK did you find the UK trains all a bit bland and disappointing after your experiences with the Indian railway system? Or was it still interesting just because it was different?
I just googled "Nilgiri Mountain Railway" and looked at the images. It must have been an amazing trip. Did you do it often? What was it like inside the train? How old were you at the time?
Genuinely fascinated, do talk about it more.
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Thank you zero. Seems ever more likely the answer to my question is "no" then, but it's often the journey to the answer that is the more interesting anyway.
Ta muchly for asking.
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When we were kids my brother and I used to have to cross a narrow footbridge over the lines to get to school, we used to run there every morning so that we could stand in the smoke as the 8.30 passed underneath! - I can still recall the smell now 50 odd years later! I loved it ;-)
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>> I can still recall the smell now 50 odd years later! I loved it ;-)
>>
That's why millions of people, including me and various members of my family, still go on steam railways and such.
When it was everywhere and every day it was a filthy means of transport, especially in urban areas.
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If seen around Kettering these were presumably running to destinations like Leicester, Sheffield and Manchester or further. If substituting for diesels then would they be covering for Peaks or other BR diesels (40s?) rather than the 'outer suburban' service to Luton and Bedford which was supposed to be in hands of DMUs.
Nonetheless I suspect story would have been same there in winter of 63, particularly with effect of cold on diesel.
As a side observation interesting to see the Anglicised spelling used for the loco's name; would be Owain Glyndŵr (or even Glyn Dŵr) these days.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 2 Oct 18 at 15:05
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>> As a side observation interesting to see the Anglicised spelling used for the loco's name;
>> would be Owain Glyndŵr (or even Glyn Dŵr) these days.
No 70010, a Britannia delivered to Norwich Thorpe shed new in 1951, for the Liverpool Street - Norwich routes
In '63 it was out of Willesdon shed for a while, which is why it was observed on the Bedford run,
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>> In '63 it was out of Willesdon shed for a while, which is why it
>> was observed on the Bedford run,
Willesden was LMR but on the Euston route. Doesn't stop it reaching St Pancras but would that be a normal movement?
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My memories of steam locomotives are standing on the main line platforms at Wimbledon in the late 50s watching the steam express trains moving fast but still accelerating out of Waterloo and heading for the likes of Southampton.
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The Somerset and Dorset stretch from Blandford towards Corfe Mullen Junction ran behind my Paternal Grandmother's house and I remember steam trains up to the line being lifted. Also the pit trains until the sixties around Primrose Hill colliery still using the ungated Astley Crossing, next to house where my Mother lived as a child
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Of course, all this talk of steam and nobody has mentioned the delectable Jenny Agutter waving her petticoats in The Railway Children, a scene forever embedded in my mind.
Always had a terrible crush on her. Imagine then (now there is no longer any particular professional discretion required I can say this) my excitement when I discovered her child was now enrolled in the very College I worked in for twenty years. Yes, she did visit, quite often. And yes, on every single occasion for three years that she did so, I missed meeting her, once by moments. I arrived in the Porter's Lodge to a faint whiff of perfume and some slightly stunned and grinning elderly gentlemen, so I knew I'd missed her once more.
Sigh.
I did get accosted in the same place by Sue Pollard once, though, who annoyed me.
I know Mark will probably have stayed at her place for a week and have her phone number, but hey, it's the best I can do. :)
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I wish.
Though I do recall her in Walkabout. She made quite the impression on my young mind.
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>> Though I do recall her in Walkabout. She made quite the impression on my young
>> mind.
Oh yes.
Of the Railway Children I think I had more of a crush on Sally Thomsett (who is actually older than Jenny Agutter) but I was only about 10 when it came out.
Unusual for me as I usually go brunette rather than blonde.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 2 Oct 18 at 18:51
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Walkabout is a great film. I must get a copy on some format or other, as long as it doesn't actually fall into a slightly grey legal area, that is!
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>> My memories of steam locomotives are
>>
The eerie shriek of the whistle at night as the express thundered through a minor station.
Hastily shutting the window as soot and smuts billowed into the compartment.
The elegance of eating in the dining car. The voice of the uniformed steward moving down the corridor opening each compartment door to intone "first call for luncheon", and then again "last call for luncheon".
Water spraying up the sides of the carriage as the engine took on water at speed.
The soporific rhythym of the wheels on rail joints, broken sometimes by a confused rattle as we went over points, before the rhythym was picked up again.
Walking the length of the train, peering through the wire mesh into the luggage bay, chatting to the guard. Poking my fingers through the holes in the hat box to check that my cat was OK on our move from Scotland.
Being frightened of the noisy and windy nomansland between carriages, walking on lurching slithering wooden boards between flapping canvas curtains.
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>> Willesden was LMR but on the Euston route. Doesn't stop it reaching St Pancras but
>> would that be a normal movement?
Nothing in steam world was "normal" during withdrawal. At times in the regions anarchy ruled, which is why the BR board had to officially ban it
Even that failed
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>> Nothing in steam world was "normal" during withdrawal. At times in the regions anarchy ruled,
Relatively recently read 'I Tried to Run a Railway' so I get that entirely.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 2 Oct 18 at 19:29
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One for the steam buffs - Pat
