We've just about decided to sell the ageing MB, it's time.
Been thinking long and hard about a replacement small car, we want good economy without trying and as this will be for SWMBO primarily it needs some fairly effortless grunt, she would be frustrated quickly by something without some go.
We toyed with going petrol for various reasons, reliability misfuelling issues, etc but have decided reluctantly to look at used Diesel despite my misgivings...hope i don't regret this.
Having driven many of the smaller Diesels around we don't want one of the 1.3 offerings as in my experience they lack torque at low revs and need to be driven in the correct rev range to get any go from them.
We have pencilled in Citroen C2 VTS 1.6 HDi (pity that engine only comes with the sporty package), and Fiat Grand Punto 1.6 multijet, reasonable or avoid like the plague?
Is there anything else we could consider that puts out around 110bhp with the high torque that these do and stays in the low VED decent performance bracket and likely to give 55mpg plus in normal use.
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Sat 28 Aug 10 at 21:35
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What about something with the VAG 1.9 PD engine?
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you wont get 55mpg plus out of the 1.9pd
The Renault 1.5dci come in various guises from 68bhp up to 115bhp I think, found in any renault, dacia, or nissan.
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Beat me to it Zero. Have a look at a Qashqai 1.5d. Roomy as well.
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See lots of KIA'S on the road do they suit your purpose?
Focus diesel, astra, what price is the best way at looking at cars we can name plenty but it depends really on your budget.
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>> you wont get 55mpg plus out of the 1.9pd
Yes you will. Easily if it doesn't spend all its time in town and doesn't get thrashed. My record is 62 mpg over a tankful, admittedly in ideal conditions.
It cannot match the peachy refinement of the Renault 1.5 dCi though. Very little can, to be honest.
Last edited by: DP on Sat 28 Aug 10 at 21:55
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never got over 55mpg out of any 1.9pd tankful, and I have had three.
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I expect to get around 620 to the light on the Golf and it rarely disappoints. Typically 50 litres to refill. 56 ish mpg.
All longish (25 mile+) mostly motorway runs, but in rush hour traffic so lots of stop/start and crawling. I don't clog it on the clear bits, tending to stay under 80. Trip average on the computer shows about 60 mpg most days.
Doing the run during school holidays, I'm getting around 650 to the light. Same 50-ish litre refill. 59 mpg.
If it stays in town or is driven hard, the tank average can drop well down into the 40's, but you have to be pretty cruel to it.
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Over the last nine years and 143,000KM, I have averaged roughly 5.6 litres per 100 kilometres from my Skoda Fabia 1.9tdi. 101 BHP claimed.
It's quick, too - the 1.4tdi as currently fitted to the Mk II Fabia is a sluggard, by comparison, - I had one as a loan car recently.
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>> What about something with the VAG 1.9 PD engine?
>>
Looked at Ibiza, VED band E or F, haven't looked at Fabia cos we both dislike the looks of them intently.
The whole point is to get as much bang for the least running costs, both the Citroen and Fiat go into band C (assuming i've done the research right) so £35ish.
Would have been happy to go for a PD engine Tyro, but if we are making this change (it's a rare event, had the Benz 8 years) then we must tick all the boxes we can.
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Z and Hump, again unless i'm wrong the 1.5dci goes at least band D...She wants her cake and eat it, and i may well have not researched Reno's/Nissans fully admittedly so might be missing a good competitor, not really thought of them to be honest.
BigT, i've looked at Vauxhalls too, emissions too high unless the 1.3 which doesn't have the clout.
Budget wise, max spend around £6K or just over which can get us a sub 20k 57 plate VTS HDi.
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I take it that you are not attracted by a Fiesta 1.6 TDCi?
Band B, I believe, though the performance isn't great, unless you get it remapped.
Last edited by: tyro on Sat 28 Aug 10 at 22:08
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Skoda with the 1.2 or 1.4 tsi in it - forget going diesel.
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Fiesta of any shape just don't do anything for us T, pity as it could have been a good candidate.
Funny you should mention remap, i'd already considered (favourably) what sort of a pocket rocket that little VTS could be with 130hp and 30% rise in torque for She to play with.
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KIA CEED 1.6 CRDi LS 5dr [113] Diesel Hatchback £5,550 2007 (57 reg), HatchbackPrivate seller,
19,000 miles
Manual
1.6L
Diesel
5 Doors, Manual, Hatchback, Diesel, Curtain airbags, 4 electric windows, Half Leather seats, ABS, Adjustable steering column/wheel, Alloy wheels, Central locking, Climate Control, …
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Can't do small Skoda's PU, why do they make them all look so awful..sorry not meaning to offend anyone who's got one.
Z, Ceed is a possibility we hadn't considered and i would have suggested to someone else, band D but a much more substantial car and well made too.
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The fastest small diesel I ever drove was the Ibiza 130 Tdi Fr.
Far too much power and torque but great fun.
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Found the Ceed you mentioned Z, cat d hidden in the ad with no explanation.
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>> The fastest small diesel I ever drove was the Ibiza 130 Tdi Fr.
>>
>> Far too much power and torque but great fun.
I would second that in terms of your needs, hard ride though apparently (Don't know how Zero found it) and electrics can sometimes give problems.
The 1.6 diesel is supposed to be a peach in the C'eed.
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>> I would second that in terms of your needs, hard ride though apparently (Don't know
>> how Zero found it) and electrics can sometimes give problems.
I'm considering a French and an Italian car, i imagine electrics will be a regular item on either.
Ceed is now on the list to look at in more depth.
On the other hand VTS plus Steinbauer chip equals 136 to 140 hp and 27 or 33% more torque...he mused... i really must stop aiding and abetting the antics of my hooligan SWM.;)
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Not a diesel but should be available in budget / would still be economical / might provide a bit of fun too.
Panda 100hp
Oh and I know where you could get a bike rack for it very reasonably......
:-)
tinyurl.com/29yu8x4 link shortened to restore correct page width
Last edited by: VxFan on Sun 29 Aug 10 at 00:41
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one of those really safe secure ones that dont damage the car?
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>> Not a diesel but should be available in budget / would still be economical /
>> might provide a bit of fun too.
>>
>> Panda 100hp
Lad's She has one, suspension rock hard, quite juicy (when he drives it and my She as bad as he is) and not good emissions, other than that fine.
Bike rack?, with my shape legs aches pains lack of time etc.
..;)
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Whoops, sorry about the huge link ! Perhaps a kind mod would be so merciful as to remove it ?
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No mods at this time? It works and looks okay on my widescreen though ;-) Well the site wraps it but it works. I don't think they are so bothered now???
Last edited by: rtj70 on Sun 29 Aug 10 at 00:34
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Thamks for fixing the link Dave. I wish I knew how to do that. Probably no use explaining though. Certain things continue to baffle me.
:-)
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>> The 1.6 diesel is supposed to be a peach in the C'eed.
>>
I found it more than adequate for everyday use, I was apprehensive after driving a 2.0 tdci focus for five years but it is fine, and quiet too. You wont get 55mpg from one though, I drive in "making progress" mode and get 43mpg around town and 50mpg on the motorway from my estate model. Thats at 6,000 miles, I expect a slight improvement by 10,000 miles but not much.
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>> >> The 1.6 diesel is supposed to be a peach in the C'eed.
>> >>
>>
>> I found it more than adequate for everyday use, I was apprehensive after driving a
>> 2.0 tdci focus for five years but it is fine, and quiet too.
How did you find the Focus in terms of comfort, handling, ride, grunt e.t.c? After 5 years you would have got to know it inside out. My mechanic recommended one as a replacement for my beemer estate when I've had enough of it. I'm really after an Accord but if I need to do the mileage he thought that the Focus 2.0TDCi was good, and not far behind the Japs in terms of build quality now.
And how does it compare to your C'eed?
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>> And how does it compare to your C'eed?
>>
The 2.0 tdci engine is a good match to the Mk 2 Focus and gives a good reserve of power. My Focus was an 05 early build one and the quality of the interior was poor, far worse fit and finish than the Cee'd. I believe the facelift models were much improved with better soundproofing and a better interior. The lower front wings behind the front wheels is a weak point for rust, the later models had plastic protection here and along the sill. The suspension is firm and the seats are "German" firm which I like and found comfortable. The early ones were built with an underpowered EGR valve which gave problems, Ford did not do a recall but replaced them on customer complaint. The effect could be serious, mine was put off the road as unsafe (Huge unpredictable loss of power) by a dealer and Ford hired a Mondeo for me. These should all have been replaced by now, and built with the modified one for years. Once fixed it did not miss a beat for 4.5 years and 70,000 miles, mine did not have a DPF and the DMF survived my driving. It must have been a good car or it would not have survived with me for so long.
I prefer the Cee'd, lighter controls, and nicer to drive. My facelift one with the modified suspension is every bit as agile as the Focus. A test driver might tell the difference but I can't.
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>> Ibiza 130 Tdi Fr
My aunt and uncle have had an 05 plate one of these for the last 4 years. Now approaching 100k miles, with no problems that I've heard of. They test drove the Skoda Fabia vRS with the same engine but reckoned the SEAT was more comfortable.
>> Far too much power and torque but great fun.
I agree wholeheartedly.
EDIT: A quick look around Auto trader reveals 9 Ibiza TDI FRs around £4k, all 54-05 reg, 100k miles ish.
Last edited by: Dave_TD {P} on Sun 29 Aug 10 at 00:44
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Any Peugeot 207 HDis around in your budget?
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>> Any Peugeot 207 HDis around in your budget?
Yes there are and for some reason i hadn't considered those either, just shows it pays to ask for thoughts as you can easily miss the blindingly obvious.
None of the alternatives in band C can quite match the 9.5 second sprint to 60 that the C2 does, i know that doesn't mean much in the grand scheme but does show just how light the C2 must be.
VTR with HDi quite rare i didn't know there was a Diesel version available till a couple of days ago, and i used to carry the things almost every day.
I shall create a new thread asking about the FAP as fitted to the 110 HDi.
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How's about the Kia Venga 1.4 DERV comrade bennet, or is that too noo for yoo.
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>> How's about the Kia Venga 1.4 DERV
Out of our budget D, we're trying to stick around the £6K maybe push it to 7 for the right car.
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Focus Zetec or Ghia 2.0 diesel, the 2.0 is very refined more so than the 1.6 as well as being a lot more torquey and 50mpg + average is possible.
I guess the C4 can be had with the 2.0 PSA/Ford engine as well as the 1.6.
The Renault 1.5 and 1.9 DCis are smooth and punchy.
Pre CR VAG diesels are relatively rough though could you get a MkV Golf GT 1.4TFSi, and interesting engine, no reports of problems that I am aware of, quick and economical.
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The Renault 1.5 and 1.9 DCis are smooth and punchy.....
Been very impressed with the 1.5 Renault Clio, the motor's also used fairly widely and there doesn't seem to be any major drawbacks with it. But for long term ownership I'd also be looking at Hyundai i20/30 and Ceed, for peace of mind. Haven't driven any though. Have you ruled out something with the new turbo petrol 1.2 or 1.4 VAG unit ? I'm not convinced diesel offers any cost advantages in a small car with average mileage and these new petrol units drive very well.
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I'm not really into 'bands' gordon, and I don't really understand them (or want to) but I suppose its tax bands Re: CO2,
I've owned an AX 1.4 diesel (a little blinder) and a Discovery XP jobbie a few years back but I'm a petrolhead really
A few years ago I got an almost new Magane diesel as a loan car from a Reno pain dealer and,
I was really impressed with it ( I wanted to keep it) whether it was a 1.5 or (I suspect) a 1.9 I know not,
I saw a newish one down my road the other morning when I was walking mutley ... nice!
Last edited by: Dog on Sun 29 Aug 10 at 08:42
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The Ford/PSA 1.6 HDI 110 is a superb little engine - pulls well, refined, economical and reliable. All you want from a car engine. And it's fitted in countless small (and not so small) cars. I would look for that engine in the body style that suits your needs. Everything from a MINI to a Volvo V70! I had it (... er, the engine that is) in a C4 and was very impressed.
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Can't put my finger on why but neither of us wants Renault or Nissan, though i've had good service from both makes in years gone by, Renault parts dept knew how to charge maybe i'm still smarting and the credit card key doesn't endear itself if thats what Clio's have around 07.
So far C2 VTS, 207 with same engine, Ceed and GrandPunto 1.6 multijet are in the running, i think She favours the C2 not the least cos it's a little bit different.
She Who Must will try and arrange a test drive of a possible C2 later today, i hope the car sales bloke doesn't make the same mistake as one at Northampton a few years ago when She test drove a MB 320CDi estate, he said do what you have to do to try it out properly, i bet he never said that again..;)
Grateful for all suggestions and thoughts, many thanks to all and keep them coming.
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We looked at Ibiza FR to get that serious oomph despite the extra costs, nice though it is and She's had a previous gen Ibiza TD, She hates the looks of it so that's out the window too.
Funny thing this car design stuff, one mans meat etc.
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18 year old lad across the road from us has a C2. Dunno what engine but his is fast for sure. Of course he's got a straight through exhaust and an unfeasably loud music system in his. Just as well really because it gives fair warning of his final approach.....How he manages to turn it into his dad's drive at that speed without a guy guiding him in with ping pong bats and an arrester wire I'll never know....
Last edited by: Humph D'bout on Sun 29 Aug 10 at 10:46
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>>>How he manages to turn it into his dad's drive at that speed without a guy guiding him in with ping pong bats and an arrester wire I'll never know....
Ha... folks said similar of my Peco exhausted, wide wheel/tyre, Phillips casetter player equipped Herald in the 70s!
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.....they never said that about my Colway crossply remould equipped Wolseley Hornet but similar observations may have been levelled at its replacement, a rollcage equipped, wide wheeled, skiing related sticker festooned Spitfire....
Last edited by: Humph D'bout on Sun 29 Aug 10 at 11:06
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>>She Who Must will try and arrange a test drive of a possible C2 later today<<
The new AX according to Aitchieboy :)
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Ha test drive arranged, see ya later.
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>> The Ford/PSA 1.6 HDI 110 is a superb little engine - pulls well, refined, economical
>> and reliable. >>
Agreed, I have driven it in a C-Max and C4 Picasso however it is not as refined as the 2.0 version.
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Well we've been and test driven an C2 VTS 08 plate with 25K on the clock at a Cit dealer, SWM enjoyed herself immensily likening it to her proper Cooper S (a real one) but with better comfort.
I didn't drive it but SWM gave it a good seeing to, brakes very powerful, suspension firm but not as jarring over speed humps and pot holes as i feared, engine is good torquey and powers the car easily, grip in the wet from the 16" low profile Michelins was good considering the welly given.
ESP showing a fault but it's under makers warranty and the garage will sort it out, even without ESP wheelspin was only provoked under a full power take off in the wet and roundabouts taken quickly didn't give the impression that grip was close to being lost.
SWM felt at home straight away and likes the way the car does what it does.
We had a chat about the price, SWM told him we were going to look at a couple more (true) with seemingly better value.
After a bit of friendly banter the sales chap was going to phone us if he could come near our reasonable offer of £800 less than screen price, fine, i'm just starting our car up and he comes over, he's phoned the gaffer and got the go ahead and we are now the new owners of this little pocket rocket.
She is like a puppy with two tails.
Thanks for all your contributions, wasn't going to run this thread but glad i did.
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>>
>> >> The Ford/PSA 1.6 HDI 110 is a superb little engine - pulls well, refined,
>> economical
>> >> and reliable. >>
>>
>> Agreed, I have driven it in a C-Max and C4 Picasso however it is not
>> as refined as the 2.0 version.
>>
A four cylinder diesel can surely never be described as refined I don't care what badge is on the bonnet. Even Munich and Stuttgart badged four pot diesels I would not describe as refined and I've driven both.
We have had a C4 GP 1.6HDi for 18 months now. It is not refined nor economical. 38mpg vs Volvo 2.4 S60 D5 42mpg over the same journeys. Both cars weigh 15-1600kgs yet the Citroën is greener in the eyes of the EU. Go figure !
One other thing. Tensioner gave up on the C4 after 15k miles. Replaced under warranty. We won't be keeping this one outside the warranty period. My wife loves the car, but I have to say I was expecting a bit more economy wise. Especially when compared to a tank.
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>>>A four cylinder diesel can surely never be described as refined... We have had a C4 GP 1.6HDi for 18 months now. It is not refined nor economical. 38mpg vs Volvo 2.4 S60 D5 42mpg over the same journeys. Both cars weigh 15-1600kgs yet the Citroën is greener in the eyes of the EU. Go figure !
Now I would describe the 1.6HDi in my new C5 as a very refined diesel. The good lady drove away from me down the drive the other day and I thought there was a complete lack of diesel noises. Regarding economy I can't get it (a Tourer too) under 48mpg whatever I do.... just over 50 is the norm.
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>> Regarding economy I can't get it
>> (a Tourer too) under 48mpg whatever I do.... just over 50 is the norm.
You're lucky to be getting 48mpg. Thats a heavy car for any engine to be lugging around. It's listed in Parkers as being around 1530kg. Where other manufacturers like Mazda are shedding weight to gain efficiency, Citroen seem to have taken the germanic thing too seriously and gained weight to the detriment of economy.
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>>>Citroen seem to have taken the germanic thing too seriously and gained weight to the detriment of economy.
Err hardly when a C5 Tourer will better 48mpg at all times in mixed rural use with most runs no more than 20 miles.... I don't see the detriment.
BTW a C5 Tourer is 100kg lighter than similar spec Mondeo Estate.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Mon 30 Aug 10 at 12:00
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>> Err hardly when a C5 Tourer will better 48mpg at all times in mixed rural
>> use with most runs no more than 20 miles.... I don't see the detriment.
>>
>> BTW a C5 Tourer is 100kg lighter than similar spec Mondeo Estate.
Sorry, mis-read your post. I thought it said "Regarding economy, I can't get it"
Slapped hand! I hope you'll be very happy with your C5.
Last edited by: corax on Mon 30 Aug 10 at 12:04
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Your use and driving conditions must be as hard as they come Corax to only get 38mpg from a C4 HDi. I would expect to better my C5 consumption by about 4mpg if I had a a C4 so I'd expect 52mpg min.
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>> Your use and driving conditions must be as hard as they come Corax to only
>> get 38mpg from a C4 HDi. I would expect to better my C5 consumption by
>> about 4mpg if I had a a C4 so I'd expect 52mpg min.
I think you'll find gmac owns the C4, not me.
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Ahh sorry... trying to bury the horse, cook lunch, do a washing load and look at the forum all together... the perils of being home alone while the family have a bank hols outing.
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They do tend to be in the 5 to 50 mile range of runs between the local villages at 70kph or to the airport on restricted Autobahn 120kph. Don't think SWMBO'd is heavy footed.
Now when I get behind the wheel then it likes a drink.
I think what makes the engine in the C4 noisy is the Aluminium bonnet and plastic front wings. They don't really absorb much between them.
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>> Your use and driving conditions must be as hard as they come Corax to only
>> get 38mpg from a C4 HDi. I would expect to better my C5 consumption by
>> about 4mpg if I had a a C4 so I'd expect 52mpg min.
>>
Computer shows 54 mpg average over the last 8K in my C5 with that engine. Worst I have managed is 48 with lots of stop start, and Mrs B drive's it at least once a week or so and she has a lead foot - tendancy to be the wrong side of the motorway limit, and late breaking (more than my life is worth to comment....). Dont think I could get mine down to 38 even if thrashing it so I wonder if you have other issues?
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>>
>> We have had a C4 GP 1.6HDi for 18 months now. It is not refined.
>>
Actually the C4 Picasso we had for a week in France last year felt gutsy enough for a small diesel and did a sterling job up Pyrenean mountain passes though was not as refined as a C-Max with the same engine that I had driven earlier, and not a patch on my Mondeo. The Mondeo felt particularly sweet when driving home from the airport aft a week with the C4.
Otherwise the C4 P was great and I quite fancied trying a 2.0D one.
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Astra I SE 1.7 CDTi 16v (110ps) ecoFLEX 5dr. A motoring journalist called "Honest John" has details on his site.
Aha:
www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/vauxhall/astra-i-2009/?section=good
Last edited by: FotheringtonTomas on Sun 29 Aug 10 at 15:11
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Forgot to say, there was a private sale of one that we were interested in, i phoned that chap and the car is still on finance, he intended to pay the finance off by credit card the day before ownership change and let me talk to the finance company (his mate in the pub?) to confirm.
Too risky for me, the car was well priced, was it too good to be true or would any of you been prepared to give it a go.
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how did you know it was on finance?
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>> how did you know it was on finance?
>>
I asked him BB, and he seemed happy to tell me and his solution but not quite so forthcoming about the service history, it was and probably is quite a bargain but something didn't feel quite right.
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i think you were right to be cautious
there must be lots of people out there selling cars they dont own
last time i bought a car on finance i paid the finance company myself but its a long time ago now
that way you also get a proper receipt to show its lien free
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I looked at a Polo that the vendor had said had just paid off the finance.
I was going to invest £19 quid in an HPI check that should tell you if its paid off.
And a bonus - If you take the HPI check, you can use the AVIVA 7 day free insurance to drive it away.
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>> I looked at a Polo that the vendor had said had just paid off the
>> finance.
And if that had been the situation Z i'd have been happy to have done the same as you suggest and would probably have bought the car.
The day before with credit card method set alarm bells ringing.
I wonder if he's worked out why potential buyers are wary of this, i know our generation does things differently where finance and debt is concerned but this 'winging it' of the younger set would give me the willies.
By the way SWMBO is champing at the bit for her new toy, it's like having an excited teenager trying to will the week to go quicker.
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Well done GB.
What is to become of the old Merc upon which so much love and attention was once lavished ? Is it to be left to wither, discarded like an Inuit's sick Husky to perish as winter comes ? Do those years of faithful service, the memories of countless happy journeys count for nought ? Are you both so hard hearted as to be turned by a little French fancy ?
Well good for you. I couldn't do it but good for you.
:-))
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Hump, your memory is too good (when Betsy was off to the uncaring neighbour) and i deserve that literary thrashing for being so fickle.;)
The MB has been a lovely car to own and drive, effortless performance, a silky competent drive, individuality in this land of cloned cars and people.
However it hasn't been the most durable car i've ever owned.
It's needed a complete engine wiring loom (because some idiot decided biodegradable wiring would be a good thing) that took the ECU with it when the coils shorted, 3 new coil packs, 2 new front ball joints (integral part of the wishbones on 320's @ £225 a side for genuine parts, aftermarket being like rocking horse stuff).
New springs all round and new dampers too, oh and it has to have a new fan belt annually as the one fitted will squeak enough to wake the dead after a few months.
The multi elemented HRW on this model go cloudy between the layers and that's been replaced at huge cost.
If i didn't have one of the oldest established and most competent MB indies looking after the car it would have broken me, the wiring loom/ECU episode alone would have cost £2.5K to £3K at MB dealer (assuming they didn't keep fitting new bits till they fixed it), fixed for around £1200 at my indy.
And it's just clicked over 80K genuine miles from new, hardly long term unbreakability Betsy and indeed most cars owned by forum members would wipe the floor with it for long term durability.
The biggest cost though is fuel, it simply drinks the stuff, admittedly the free revving driveability of the thing encourages non economic activity.
Ironically everything that can go has been replaced and the servicing and maintenance and underbody titillating exemplary, so whoever buys it will get one of the best examples of this model available where many fell into irresponsible hands a few years ago when prices bottomed out.
My indy will probably buy it, he knows the motor inside out and has the type of customer wanting, if not i'll advertise it in a couple of weeks, i won't give it away though.
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GB
Hard luck. Mirrors my bil who has a 300D estate from 1994. The repairs he has had cariried out over the past 15 years of ownership - only 120k miles - would buy at least one new car..
W124s are grossly over-rated imo for longevity: they last IF you replace most of the suspension.. regularly ...
£220 parts for a propshaft central bearing is the latest...
And my diesel Yaris does 0-60mph in 10 secs and averages 57mpg in real life..
Repairs? Whatsthat?
Last edited by: madf on Mon 30 Aug 10 at 09:01
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Ive driven a C2 1.4 HDi and I thought that was a swift little car, plenty of urge so I imagine the 1.6 is even better.
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Madf,
funnily enough the E300D saloon we had was completely trouble free and we should really have kept that and got rid of the coupe when we changed over, such is life and the wonder of hindsight.
We owned a W124 95 E320 petrol estate for a couple of years, second owner and the first had kept every receipt and MOT from new, the bills from MB dealers over the years he owned it were staggering, every service a minimum cost of £500 and even then they'd itemise paltry things like screws and washer fluid to extract even more loot, but additionally to that so many things that shouldn't have failed had failed, a poor car by anyone's standards and poor treatment of a customer IMO.
Stu,
Yes it does get on a bit to say the least, remarkable in band C tax bracket with a likely 55 to 65 mpg in normal running about.
SWM seems to think a remap to bring the torque in earlier would be a good thing....better get some new front tyres on order.
New tyres do go on the front don't they...;)
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>> New tyres do go on the front don't they...;)
>>
Of course they do, thats where you need the grip for steering, and for drive on front wheel drive cars. Personaly I prefer the front to slide first if I am going to loose control and wreck my car, that way I can see what I am going to hit, and the airbag is between me and the point of impact. So bald tyres on the front for me, even if it is wrong. :-)
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Newer tyres DO NOT go on the front. Always the back
However, if you are really good, and have sufficient horsepower the best tyres to the front.
Reason being, if you are good, really really good and have the bottle, you can stamp on the power and drive an oversteer out.
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>> Newer tyres DO NOT go on the front. Always the back
>>
Nice one Z, I have just paid myself a fiver. I was running a personal book on who would bite first. :-)
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Navy's fishing rod still works.
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Ha
got you both, covered both scenarios AND with a veiled insult about the aged matelots car.
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I used to power oversteer my (real, original) mini when I was a teenager, the current motor won't let you unless you turn off the electronic anti skid thingy.
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>> I used to power oversteer my (real, original) mini when I was a teenager, the
>> current motor won't let you unless you turn off the electronic anti skid thingy.
>>
Mercedes has provoked some controversy in tyre fitting circles (!) by saying that new tyres should be put on the front of the new C Class. Of course, this caused apoplexy as it goes against the received wisdom for all cars, but particualrly those that are RWD.
MB's reasoning is that the electronics will take care of the back-end so the new tyres might as well go on the front.
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"Newer tyres DO NOT go on the front. Always the back"
And you owe me a tenner Humph
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I think it was always safe Dave !
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Suede shoes? I always knew you were either a pimp or a bookie.
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...Suede shoes? I always knew you were either a pimp or a bookie...
Elvis wore blue ones, and he was neither.
Elvis? Not heard much from him on Tone's show.
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...Elvis was a fat pimp...
Not when he sang (You Can do Anything but Lay Off My) Blue Suede Shoes.
www.last.fm/music/Elvis+Presley/_/Blue+Suede+Shoes
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If ever i saw a pimp singing, thats it.
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...If ever i saw a pimp singing, thats it...
I think you'll find 'pimp' is the last thing Elvis needed to do.
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he couldnt do anything else. Lisa marie was someone elses.
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Elvis? Who was he?
before my time.
I've landed on a thread with a bunch of old duffers- no doubt their wheelchairs do 0-60 in 5 minutes! :-)
Last edited by: madf on Mon 30 Aug 10 at 17:24
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King Creole is one of my favourite films of all time. I liked him when he was young and pretty.
I should have posted that in the "best film" thread.
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>> I liked him when
>> he was young and pretty.
hmmmmmmm Yeeeeeeeees
I see
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 30 Aug 10 at 18:54
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I merely mean that I prefer his earlier career as opposed to when he was fat, bloated and dicing with death every time he took a dump.
I've never understood why the Elvis look-a-likes always impersonate him at his worst...
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Although I can appreciate a good looking bloke. (If only to guide my wife in the opposite direction)
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>> I've never understood why the Elvis look-a-likes always impersonate him at his worst...
>>
I imagine it's easier to earn few quid in your forties and fifties by throwing a white suit on and looking like a salad dodging tyre smuggler than a fit twenty something soldier. Just a wild stab in the dark.
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I saw a dwarf Elvis impersonator hustling photo takers on the strip in Las Vegas. That place must be the impersonator capital of the USA, Elvis was all over the place. I was there to use it as a base for a Grand Canyon / National Park tour. Dreadful place, although I have not been to Blackpool, Vegas must be like Blackpool on steroids. Didn't see any diesel cars though.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Mon 30 Aug 10 at 20:01
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...I imagine it's easier to earn few quid in your forties and fifties by throwing a white suit on and looking like a salad dodging tyre smuggler than a fit twenty something soldier...
Mmm...I feel a career change coming on. :)
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>> The MB has been a lovely car to own and drive, effortless performance, a silky competent drive, individuality in this land of cloned cars and people.
Well have you told it yet ? Bet you can't look it in the headlamps.........
:-)
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>> Well have you told it yet ?
It...It!!!, have you no feelings man, she is a she like all things temperamental and lovely and lots of trouble.;)
Gave her the usual weekly wash today, and SWM caught me giving her a stroke and a pat on the head.
There may well be a damp eye or four when she does go, she's beautiful and sleek and it's been 8 years since she was christened.
s217.photobucket.com/albums/cc69/cowithagun/?action=view¤t=IMG_1652.jpg
i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc69/cowithagun/IMG_1652.jpg
Last edited by: VxFan on Sun 5 Sep 10 at 02:27
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Feelings, feelings ? I'm not the one dumping her for a young French bit of fluff...Have you really thought about this ? Abandoning her to the all too probable fate of being blinged up and used to ferry drugs and the like until she's left untaxed, uninsured and then seized to be crushed because her new owner is doing time ? Sleep well is all I can say. Sleep well if you can.....It's only a car after all, her friend the pick up won't miss her at all will she ?.....
Oh and enjoy the new car....
:-))
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Abandoning her to the all too probable fate
>> of being blinged up and used to ferry drugs
Ah now that isn't going to happen for two reasons.
1. My indy is probably the most out of his time old fashioned proper gentleman you'll ever meet, i have a vision of conversion between chav drug dealer and my indy, short and precise with chav leaving minus car and flea in ear.
2. If my indy doesn't have it then prospective buyers have to run the gauntlet of She Who Must, and they'll get a sight shorter shrift from her than they will from the above, quite scary for the uninitiated.
I knew i'd rue the day i tried in vain to help you find your feelings over Betsy when you were ready to pass her onto uncaring hands discarded like a holed sock.
.;)))
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Ah but I didn't discard her did I in the end ? No, now she enjoys a happy retirement on light duties. Today she took us and the bikes to the forest for a picnic and we all sat merrily on her loadbay chatting joyfully and enjoying the countryside in the sunshine together just as we have all these years.
Sure the Merc has a bit of a drink problem....nobody's perfect. For what you have spent on that little French piece you could have kept her in super unleaded for years......
Still, we're all different I suppose and if you are at peace with it all, well so be it...
:-))
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>> Still, we're all different I suppose and if you are at peace with it all,
>> well so be it...
It's up to the hilt grating on me ribs, go on give it a twist why don't you..:)
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Must it be a small car GB, or just economical?
I had a bit of bother with the infallible CRV last week when the alternator popped, on holiday. I hired a 59 plate Mondeo 2.0 diesel, a car in which I felt no interest at all. Very good drive as it turned out, and I had a job to get the mpg under 50 according to the trip computer. Made me wonder why anyone bothers with the Focus, given the Mondeo is probably cheaper second hand.
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As you were - just saw you bought one ;-)
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...Made me wonder why anyone bothers with the Focus, given the Mondeo is probably cheaper second hand...
Size would be my guess.
The Mondy is a big old brute, but I agree it's excellent value secondhand.
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Mondy, far too big and cumbersome for my frail little woman.
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This thread has been great to read - everyone on good form, and I suppose 'grunt' is the factor that unites dlesels and Elvis.....
Interesting comparison between Humph's valiant Betsy - much younger than GB's Mercedes but with twice the mileage if I remember right, but far fewer failures and repairs. It suggests that:
- age wears a car out more than mileage (most of us agree on the truth of that)
- a Ford is at least as well bult as a Mercedes (debatable, but it shouldn't be even that given the comparative costs of the two cars when new).
I suspect not a diesel v petrol issue: a 2.0 petrol Mondeo would probably have gone the distance just as well, if less economically.
Good luck with the Citroen, GB: French cars are fine if well looked after, as doubtless you will.
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>> Good luck with the Citroen, GB: French cars are fine if well looked after, as
>> doubtless you will.
>>
Thanks Avant and everyone else too for their thoughts and suggestions, yes it has been a light hearted enjoyable thread.
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.....bet the old coupe looked her best today in the late summer sunshine......memorable even.
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>> .....bet the old coupe looked her best today in the late summer sunshine......memorable even.
Look Humph, GB will be fine. OK it's a wrench, but that pain will soon fade away, unlike the memories which will always be with him. And his wallet will thank him :-)
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Cor blimey who needs enema's with you lot around..;)
New car to christen this weekend...oh yes, and a silly grin on the face of She Who Must.
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Well if this, let it be said, common French floosy ( whom you have only just met by all accounts ) is to come to stay, then I suppose we'd better welcome her into the fold despite the rather sordid situation with the blameless and dignified Teutonic lady she is usurping.
So, putting all that behind us, tell us more about the young Gallic thing. Colour, spec, interior etc. Gadget count, fancy wheels I expect ? Auto or manual ? You know the sort of things we feed on......
If you fancy her then quite possibly we will too...
:-)
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French floosy maybe, but at least she sips gazole, a lady of good taste.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 31 Aug 10 at 22:29
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Got a feeling i'm walking into a well laid trap, but the little French dolly is darkish red metallic Citroen C2 VTS 1.6 HDi, i seem to recall the colour is Rouge Lucifer on the delivery paperwork from my old job.
They only come in 3 door manual form, it was the VTR that had the automated manual sensodrive box and there's no way we'd contemplate one of those.
We'll take the still elegant MB to the garage to collect her on Saturday, should be some fireworks when they meet bumper to bonnet, and i may just have to let Helga show Flossie the Floosie a clean exhaust.
I'll take some pics if the weathers good and if i can remember how to add them to my photobucket thingy i'll post them.
Hopefully i'll get to drive it at some point, though She Who Must can't wait to get to grips with her, and i'll try and write some sort of appraisal in due course for anyone interested.
£30 VED, 60ish mpg and 0-62 in 9.4 secs apparently, we'll see how good it is or not in due course.
PS, Sunday weather permitting she'll be stripped out (oo-er missus) and checked over thoroughly underneath, brakes removed cleaned lubricated and stencilled for replacement time...it is French after all, there will doubtless be at least 6 combinations of brake pads that possibly fit.
Then it will be paint calipers and hubs etc, waxoyl brake pipes etc and cleaned under thoroughly for full rustproof treatment.
Will order a couple of new tyres too, Toyo T1R's on offer at £47odd for 195/65x16's.
Don't know quite what to do for winter yet, there's no official alternative sizes and Vredestein Quatrac all seasons are not shown in this size, nor anything else comparable, mucho scratching of bonce to do.
Mind you i'll be OK, got Hilux now..;)
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>> Will order a couple of new tyres too, Toyo T1R's on offer at £47odd for
>> 195/65x16's.
Idiot, it'd sit higher than my pick up, i mean 195/45 x 16's.
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>> PS, Sunday weather permitting she'll be stripped out (oo-er missus) and checked over thoroughly underneath, brakes removed cleaned lubricated and stencilled for replacement time...it is French after all, there will doubtless be at least 6 combinations of brake pads that possibly fit.
Then it will be paint calipers and hubs etc, waxoyl brake pipes etc and cleaned under thoroughly for full rustproof treatment.
Oilrag will have a tear in his eye reading that!!
How or what is stencilling a brake? Why would you want to clean a brake or lubricate it?
How long are you planning on keeping this?
IIRC even Oily, who did the above every morning with his Punto, decided to chop it in when someting mechanically went wrong with it?
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>>>there will doubtless be at least 6 combinations of brake pads that possibly fit.
>>>How or what is stencilling a brake?
Clue in first line! It's something I do... measure the disc too as they can vary.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Thu 2 Sep 10 at 16:20
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>> How or what is stencilling a brake? Why would you want to clean a brake
>> or lubricate it?
>> How long are you planning on keeping this?
Interesting that Fenlander stencils his brakes too, thought i might be alone in that.
Well BG, basically as i'll be fetching the pads out for examination i'll take an imprint of them on a clean sheet of paper, pad and backing plate, and if there are some pertinent numbers i shall note them too, and as Fenlander rightly points out make a note of disc size, and obviously check for any wear or deterioration in the brakes, suspension bearing and driveshafts.
Then when the time comes for pad renewal i can take the patterns with me instead of having to take the pads themselves.
French cars can have so many different brakes fitted you'll end up with the wrong ones at 4pm on a Sat afternoon when the factors have gorn ome, plus the factor will give you a big kiss for making his job so much easier.
I clean and lubricate the brakes because no one else bothers these days, a few hours spent thus should ensure free operation of sliders etc and i shall pump the pistons out a small amount and wipe some brake grease inside depending on how well sealed they are and condition found.
The car is just over 2 years old and 25K miles, there's every chance that the brakes haven't been out before and it will have the crud of 2 winters encrusted on, and i can't bear the thought of it...one of my many OCD's.
I'll hazard a guess it's not been hosed off proper like underneath since it was new, chances of another idiot like me being the first owner is slim..;)
Haven't a clue how long we'll keep it, bought the MB at 6 and kept it 8 years, and it still looks 6 IMO with shiny black brake calipers and disc hubs where other cars have rusty salt encrusted parts, silly i suppose but i take a pride in maintaining my motors well.
Oily had a large bill looming for a new fuel injection pump (should have used Millers Oily..;) and took the decision to replace, i would have had the pump reconditioned at Northampton Diesels had the car been mine, but he took the decision that he considered right at the time which was to replace it.
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>> chances of another idiot like me being the first owner is slim..;)
You're no idiot GB, if you were selling a car that I wanted, I'd be first in line, make no mistake :-)
>> I clean and lubricate the brakes because no one else bothers these days
My mechanic is a whizz on brakes, and while not cleaning the whole thing, he will clean and lubricate where needed to ensure another year of trouble free performance, just going that extra mile to do a good job.
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>> My mechanic is a whizz on brakes, and while not cleaning the whole thing, he
>> will clean and lubricate where needed to ensure another year
And no doubt you'll hang on to him and quite right too C.
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Good luck with the new motor GB.
I'm sure you'll have no trouble finding a buyer for your W124.
SWMBO likes our E300D, but complains of a lack of speed. A 320 might just keep her quiet, but, she'll have to wait until both of our jobs are a bit more secure!
Will you be withdrawing from the MB forum?
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He wil have his three pointed star broken over an anvil, his lederhosen torn up, and ejected from the wunderkind.
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Sounds very nice GB. Pleased for you of course......
:-)
Re the winter tyre thing, I suspect it will be in less need of them than the Merc. We spent many a Scottish winter at altitude equipped with nothing more than standard tyres. Never got into any bother with any of them but did find that small light weight FWD cars fared better than most.
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>> Good luck with the new motor GB.
>>
Thanks NC,
Lady C would find a severe lack of room in a coupe after your estate i imagine, many don't realise the coupe and convertible are a lot shorter than the saloon and estate, and the length was mostly cut from the rear passenger cell.
She'd like the poke but it is addictive as is the engine growl under power and indeed overrun, and i have to behave to get 25/27 normal running, group 18 insurance can be a stinger too.
I'll see if my indy wants the car first of all, if he does have someone in mind then he will give me a fair price, he had my Diesel saloon and i still see it about and the chap who owns it now keeps it as well as i did.
I'd prefer my indy to have it as i want the car to go to someone who will appreciate and cherish it and hopefully has the funds to continue the good maintenance, it's in good enough condition to become a very old classic.
I may offer it on the MB forum, the work that's been done might be appreciated there.
If She Who Must and i don't like the person or think they'll abuse the car i won't sell it to them, she's far too lovely a motor to be abused.
I suppose i will drop out after it's sold, the discussion side of MB forum isn't really for me to be honest.
I've said it so many times, if MB engineers had sorted the plumbing and either turbocharged or supercharged the 3 litre Diesel in the RHD 124 they'd have wiped the floor with everything else of it's time.
Z, i'm only selling it..;)
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Wed 1 Sep 10 at 21:21
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>> Z, i'm only selling it..;)
Oh right! The way Humph was going on I thought you were going to send it to Terhan to have its wheels cut off and stoned to death.
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>> Oh right! The way Humph was going on I thought you were going to send
>> it to Terhan to have its wheels cut off and stoned to death.
.;))))
Hump's enjoying some well deserved payback after i made him realise what a rotter he was when he was going to sell Betsy to some builder type chappie after all the years she's looked after and raised his family for him.
I doubt she's ever forgiven him, if he went out alone with him she'd probably break down, only keeps going so she can stay with those kids like a faithful labrador..;)
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Ah yes, Essex girls are very loyal (actually, is Betsy old enough to have come from Dagenham?).
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Nah Betsey was a continental strumpet.
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I had a tortoise called Betsy
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Belgian I think, although I've never had her chipped and she's never shown any fondness for mayonnaise....
er....boom boom....
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Anyway, never mind all that....Helga ??? What's the Hilux called....Everard ?
:-)
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What's the Hilux called....Everard ?
I dare not even hint what She Who Must calls it, swear filter would melt.
Sammy Jackson uses the term frequently..;)
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You might want to try advertising the E320 on one of the German car sites such as mobile.de. Post 1994 W124 Coupes in good nick are going for miles more than in the UK (10,000 - 16,000 Euros) and classic car fans here aren't so bothered about which side the steering wheel is on. You could well find someone mad enough to pay lots of Euros to import a RHD Merc to Germany.
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>> You might want to try advertising the E320 on one of the German car sites
>> such as mobile.de.
A good suggestion, thanks BP.
I'll look into that in the coming week, don't go too far away i might need some advice..;)
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Good luck with the C2 GB. No reason why you'd remember but there were several threads on HJ last Dec when we bought a late 2006 C3 1.4HDi from the main dealer. About 23K and as new. I did an oil/filter change after a couple of weeks so their change acted like a flush. I've since changed it again at another 6mths/7k but otherwise not fiddled with it while under warranty. It is due MOT late Oct and I'll look under it with the tester to see if there are any issues in time for the warranty ending early Dec.
Then in Dec as the warranty expires I'll do a bigger service/brake check and get the Waxoyl out if there's a dry period.
Apart from the aircon needing re-gassing there have been no faults at all. It will need a pair of front tyres (will keep to Michelin to match the rears) by Dec but we change them early anyway (3mm).
Not quite such an exciting model as yours but it has 100% fitted our needs for a second car.
Of course as mentioned above I'm running the 1.6HDi in my new C5 and it has an amazing ability to unobtrusively pull that car about. So far no passenger has guessed it is only a 1.6 and they are near disbelieving when told.
Just believe your C2 will be trouble free and it should look after you!
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>> Just believe your C2 will be trouble free and it should look after you!
>>
Thanks FL, positive thinking it is then once i've got me head round the reality we've really been and done it.
I'd have thought the engine in your C5 would have had better low speed mapping than C2, heavy car to lug around.
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>> once i've got me head round the reality we've really been and done it.
Well you've made your bed and now must lie in it.....
:-)
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The little femme fatale is posing provocatively on the driveway as we speak, she provided much enjoyment on the way home.
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Citroen C2 VTS HDi, 1.6 FAP Diesel.
Just to bring this up to date, the car seemed to not have as much low speed torque as i'd expected at first but over the past couple of weeks and 500 plus miles it seems to have changed, i wonder if it's 'learned' or has the Millers done it's thing, either way it's now pulling strongly from 1500rpm with strong urge where it didn't want to know until 2000 rpm a fortnight ago, run it between 1500 and 2500 (3 at the most) and it gathers speed very rapidly making overtakes and joining fast traffic a doddle.
It will pull from 1000 rpm but no real urge until about 1400 when you feel the turbo start to spool and at 1500 it's getting steam up.
It sticks like the proverbial in the wet, the brakes are good the handling go kart like and the ride not as hard as i feared it would be, but obviously it's no limo on 16" 45 aspect XL rated Michelins.
It's got an almost full size spare if that makes sense, 185 something by 15 on a steel wheel instead of 195/45 x 16 alloys, better than a BMX bike tyre and miles better than a tub of goo.
She Who Must is over the moon with it and has been hooliganing around like she used to in her Cooper.
Just done a brim to brim and it's doing 55.2 mpg (computer says 53) with a speedo almost spot on accurate so assume mileage optimism negligible, about a third of that mileage motorway the rest a mixture of urban and rural thrashing.
Driven normally 60 mpg would be attainable for a mixture of driving quite easily but it ain't going to happen.
A few criticisms.
With that engine in such a light body it could easily take much higher gearing which would make it fantastically economical on the motorway, 5 speed only.
Blind spot to osf corner due to very thick A pillar and sloping screen angle.
Wipers leave an unswept section to osf, i imagine the LHD's are better.
Rear seats backs in this model only fold flat don't flip over and it's a four seater only but it would hardly be a family car choice with the best will in the world.
Road noise quite heavy, i shall be fitting some underlay insulation around the rear floor/wing areas and the bulkhead...it's no Benz.
All in all we are happy with the car and if anyone wants something quick and very cheap to run and tax this comparatively rare model could be worth a look if you can find one.
They are not cheap used though, the car was listed at around £14K new though no doubt cheaper than that after discounts, too expensive really for such a small car.
Murley Auto's Rugby called her back in for the heater motor which is now fine and whilst there they got the smart repairer to fix a couple of scratches and chips we found after purchase...that garage seems to be trying hard to do the job, well done them.
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>> Citroen C2 VTS HDi, 1.6 FAP Diesel.
>>
>> Just to bring this up to date, the car seemed to not have as much
>> low speed torque as i'd expected at first but over the past couple of weeks
>> and 500 plus miles it seems to have changed, i wonder if it's 'learned' or
>> has the Millers done it's thing,
I would suspect the missus has blown a few sooty cobwebs out of it with some spirited driving.
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Italian or Greek in this case tune up daily Z, yes hadn't thought of that you could well be right...better not tell her that she doesn't need any excuses.
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>> Italian or Greek in this case tune up daily Z, yes hadn't thought of that
>> you could well be right...better not tell her that she doesn't need any excuses.
That'll be the best way to drive it. Keeps the whole system from clogging up. There's a 19 year old guy at work who has a Fiesta ST Tdci. He thrashes it everywhere, but I never see a trace of smoke when I'm behind him. Yes, I don't think you need to say anything to her :-)
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>> That'll be the best way to drive it.>>
Couldn't agree more, it's the diesels used as shopping trolleys that have problems.
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I cant see why people never use the full rev range on a diesel. Lord knows its small enough as it is without restricting it further.
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Thats the problem Z, you don't need to use the rev range to make normal progress, so many don't.
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Quite... if I'd wanted to rev the nuts off an engine I'd be riding a motor bike, not sitting in some road car...
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so its yours thats gummed up then?
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Nope, nor the last one which we sold on at 85k... it gets a blast from time to time... but in most of my driving I see no reason to bother revving it towards the red line, apart from anything else it knackers fuel consumption and doesn't get me to where I'm going any quicker!
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>> Quite... if I'd wanted to rev the nuts off an engine I'd be riding a
>> motor bike, not sitting in some road car...
Depends what bike, a four cylinder screamer yes, but not a v-twin cruiser or thumper.
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...to fix a couple of scratches and chips we found after purchase..
The dealer is indeed trying hard if they are prepared to do that for a used car.
Pleased you, and particularly wor lass, are pleased.
Buying a car is an expensive business and putting right a 'mistake' even more so.
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Small Diesel with some grunt. - tyro
