A couple of weeks ago I visited my local surgery and had a ‘Health MOT’ with the chief nurse. Apart from one arthritic hip and other minor discomforts after years of breaking the odd bones climbing and playing sports, I thought I was in reasonably good nick for my age (62).
BP, as always, was A1. Cholesterol rather high at 3.8, and I’m a stone overweight....purely down to alcohol, I didn’t have a single alcohol free day during my two months recently in Espana. I can easily lose a stone...I lost that in 17 days last September going hut to hut in the Alps alcohol free.
And began a 3 week alcohol free period yesterday.
The nurse suggested I take statins, to be confirmed by my GP ( who hasn’t been in touch yet). Both my father and grandfather died young of heart related problems, aged 51 & 45, and a great friend of mine in California, same age as me, suffered a heart attack a few weeks ago. He was skiing and pushing himself hard in fresh powder, but he’s the fittest person I know. Tea total, gym 3 times a week, never smoked, perfect weight, walks his dogs every morning and last thing at night, eats healthy food and kayaks and backpacks in the summer months. He couldn’t be helicoptered out due to heavy snow, and went into cardiac arrest just as he arrived at hospital. Fortunately he was jump started and is now allowed 3 x 10 minute gentle walks a day. Hearing that news was a real shock to me.
Statins then. Anyone take them and if so adverse reactions?
Ive read lots about them, friends have mixed views, but I’m always glad of others informed opinions.
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With a history of heart disease in the family and high cholesterol level and with a medical recommendation to take the drug I don't think I would hesitate. As regards the weight I dont think you want to kid yourself that you can lose the excess at any time. The problem is keeping the weight off and that means changing your diet permanently and that probably includes s a whole lot less booze on a regular basis.
Of course only you can decide if its worth it
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I am not a doctor and not qualified in any way to advise you.
My thinking is that statins work at the population level, and will give you some protection at the statistical level whether or not you currently have a hidden problem or susceptibility. But if there is something wrong with your heart or your coronary arteries, they won't fix it, and they are not an insurance policy at the individual level.
I won't bore you with the detail but I have been told several times over the last few years that my heart was OK on the basis of visits to the GP and ECGs.
In January I went to the GP to complain of breathlessness. The ECG was not normal. My GP (not my usual one) sent me to A&E to check for a lung clot - negative. I was given referrals to cardiology and respiratory medicine. Because of an admin failure it took a month to get an echocardiogram which showed a disastrous problem, dilated cardiomyopathy (DCM) with an 'ejection fraction' (EF) of 19%, in other words on each contraction my heart was only ejecting 19% of the blood in the left ventricle instead of the usual 75%. By this time I could hardly breathe at night unless sitting up and had to stop for frequent rests when walking uphill.
Diuretics have cleared about a gallon of retained fluid that was hanging around my middle, lungs and pleura and my breathing is now fine. I take ramipril, spironolactone, digoxin and a beta blocker and my heart is now working better - but I still have heart failure, it is incurable and progressive. The doctors will not give me a prognosis. The nearest I have had is that on a scale of seriousness of 1-10, my problem is a 9.
At the moment I feel almost normal most of the time, but that apparently does not correlate with the prognosis. I have recently had a second echo but I will not get the feedback on that until I see a consultant on 27th April.
My mother had the same thing. She lasted 12 years with it but had a poor quality of life for much of that time. I was told 20 years ago to get checked out. I did, but it is possible to have DCM for years with no symptoms. Had it been found in that time it might have been possible to take the drugs that protect my heart earlier when it was not in such a bad state.
An echocardiogram would have shown it long before symptoms arose. In my case it might well be hereditary and I have asked for a referral to a genetic specialist. I have told my brother and children to get echocardiograms asap - and if the GP can't get it done then to do it privately (c. £300).
Incidentally, I have also had an angiogram - my coronary arteries are fine, I have not had a heart attack.
I am still not on statins!
Do you know what your father and grandfather actually died of? That might be a place to start.
I hope to be around longer than 12 months, but of course none of us can guarantee that.
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>> but of course none of us can guarantee that.
4 of us at school had birthdays within a week of each other.
only 2 of us left - one died of alcohol related problems BUT the other
is infinitely more interest to the above post.
He was the brightest, BSc, MBChB, Phd, ....Professor of Cardiac Surgery with a specialisation in studying heart attacks in outwardly fit & healthy people. He was 52, fit as a fiddle, much the same weight as he was @ 21 yr old out for a run on a bike - heart attack & died.
You never know when your number is up.
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"I take ramipril, spironolactone,..................."
I take a statin (Pravastatin) along with a couple of other things that counter high blood pressure which I suspect was inherited from my mother; she died of a heart attack at 50. I am 68.
Spironolactone is an interesting one - I was taking it around 4 - 5 years ago. Over a period of months, I noticed that my right breast was very sensitive and becoming swollen. For a long while I thought that I had bruised myself against the door when I mistimed getting into the car. Then I became aware that it wasn't getting any better and paid the surgery a visit. Some sort of infection was initially suspected by two GPs, though fairly swiftly, I was sent down to the breast clinic at the local hospital. I knew that it was possible for blokes to get breast cancer.
I was asked to take all current medications with me to the hospital where the doc checked them against the information on his computer screen. Ah ........ spironolactone ....... commonest cause of blokes being referred to the breast clinic. He added that, for some strange reason, it didn't affect both breasts, but would single out one side. He sent me across for an ultrasound scan where it was confirmed that the symptoms were not cancer ...... phew!
I was told that I could continue with spironolactone, but I decided against that, and moved onto something else.
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>> Statins then. Anyone take them and if so adverse reactions?
I had a heart attack in April 1990, followed by triple bypass surgery in the June. Almost the first thing the consultant said to me was 'statins', and I have been taking them ever since.
Side effects? Reactions? None that I am aware of. My medication has changed over the years. Ask me questions, if you want.
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Thanks for your speedy replies.
My father died of a coronary occlusion, which my Mother blames on his early diet of unhealthy foods. I eat very healthily. Lots of fruit and salads, even in winter. Fortnightly visits to my local curry house, fish n chips every 3 months, so I’m no angel in the dietary stakes, but never ever any ‘ready meals’.
I drink too much beer, proper beer, socialising with friends early doors maybe 5 nights a week but never drink at home. And I can, and do, stop occasionally for a month and lose a stone which is real easy for me to do. I suppose being single popping out to my local pubs at 5pm is just too tempting, but I consider 3 or 4 pints not unduly excessive.
I’ll contact my local surgery and chase up the GP who was supposed to call and discuss the statin thing.
Stay healthy everyone...sunshine, salads, no alcohol and lots of swimming in Tenerife are imminent.
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If you are drinking three four pints of beer five night a week on a weekly basis that’s around four times too much according to current medical thinking!
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Are you sure CGN ? Let’s say 15 pints a week, two units a pint, so 30 units on average. Maybe I over estimated my beer consumption, so after my 3 week alcohol free period ending end of April I’ll keep a record.
Does not drinking coffee, only water and Yorkshire tea, compensate for a few more pints?
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Take a look at this latest major study. Statistically at that level of consumption you are lopping off a couple of years from you life expectancy. It seems that there is no level of drinking that is not injurious to your physical health.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-43738644
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>> Take a look at this latest major study. Statistically at that level of consumption you
>> are lopping off a couple of years from you life expectancy. It seems that there
>> is no level of drinking that is not injurious to your physical health.
>>
>> www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-43738644
It's the urine coated salted peanuts that are going to shorten your life, not the booze!
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I would have thought 3.8 is pretty low? I thought 5 was the level that started to cause concern?
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"I would have thought 3.8 is pretty low? I thought 5 was the level that started to cause concern?"
That's what I thought, too.
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>> Statins then. Anyone take them and if so adverse reactions?
I've been on them for around four years after a TIA (minor stroke). The consultant reckoned they'd be putting the things in water before long.
They seem to put you on the cheapest first. In my case they caused some muscle pain, but I'd stop taking them for a week and if the pain stopped take them again to confirm they were the cause. My GP would then prescribe a different one until I found one that didn't affect me, atorvastatin in my case.
My cholesterol was around the 3 mark before I started, it's on the floor now, but my GP says that's of no concern.
I think there's a lot of myths around statins (like the 'flu jab), but I don't reckon they'll kill you.
Perhaps our resident medic will come along and provide more enlightenment.
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Personally I avoid pills wherever possible. Insurers etc are always surprised when I say that at 63 I am not on any regular medication. It seems to me too many people are on too many pills. The NHS dispenses over a billion items each year.
That aside, if my doctor recommends statins I will listen to his advice, including his view if I don't take them. There is a history of male heart problems in my family but this is also allied to smoking, lack of aerobic exercise and a casual approach to fats in the diet. I try to address these factors to stave off the need for statins but I guess one day I will need to get off the fence.
Last edited by: martin aston on Fri 13 Apr 18 at 09:28
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No typo. My cholesterol is currently 3.8. I think eating porridge for breakfast 5 days a week helps!
My doctor hasn’t recommended statins. Yet. It was the nurse at the surgery who thought it might be an idea, and she would get my GP to phone me and discuss. So far no phone call.... I’m on it today.
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>> My doctor hasn’t recommended statins. Yet. It was the nurse at the surgery who thought it might be an idea,
My nurse suggested the same thing, but when I followed it up with my doctor, he told me that I'm far too young to be taking statins. That was 5 years ago when I was 45. He said it might be a consideration in the future, but not for at least another 10 years.
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>> Almost the first thing the consultant said to me was 'statins', and I have
>> been taking them ever since.
Too late for the edit.
Why do we have a five minute limit on edits? Another unnecessary idiosyncrasy?
Any road.
The consultant said "Do you have private health insurance?" even sooner than he said 'statins'.
I think I have been a good patient. If a medical professional said do this, or, take this, then I have done as suggested, after appropriate discussion, of course.
Last edited by: Duncan on Fri 13 Apr 18 at 09:43
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I asked for a mini MOT at the doc (first visit for ages) when I stopped work 3 years back (I'm now 62).
I'd recently given up the fags, which has turned out well - I was getting breathless and wheezy and that has cleared up.
One reason was that I'd put on a fair bit of weight over the previous year or two. It turned out, after an iterative set of tests, that my thyroid was totally shot through. Either that, or the drugs, can cause weight gain. I've not yet lost much weight... but I'm on daily thyroxin tabs.
My cholesterol was also slightly high and he prescribed me statins - Atorvastatin, 20mg. I've not noticed any side effects and I haven't died of cholesterol do I guess they are OK for me.
Also as my BP was slightly high he put me on 5mg of Amlopodine. The surgery has a d-i-y blood pressure machine and I check once in a while and it seems to be about normal as a result.
Having said all that, I also visited the doc for having to get up to pee at least twice a night. We've been through various drugs, none of which had any effect, so being a bit anti unnecessary rugs I've stopped taking anything for that. Drinking less doesn't help much either (in fact m often don't have to get up at all if I've had a few beers!)
I'm going to put a bit more effort into losing some weight over the summer but retirement seems to conspire against it - leisurely lunches and more vacations. But I know it's what I need to do. I do get down to the gym 3 - 4 times a week and have been largely on Slimming World style (low fats) food when at home for some time, but so far seems to have little impact.
As far as the original question goes, I haven't noticed any side effects from the drugs I'm on, but I do have some muscle ache sometimes but not serious, and I've put that down to the weight and my age rather than the drugs.
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>>>Having said all that, I also visited the doc for having to get up to pee at least twice a night. We've been through various drugs, none of which had any effect, so being a bit anti unnecessary rugs I've stopped taking anything for that. Drinking less doesn't help much either (in fact m often don't have to get up at all if I've had a few beers!)<<<
and the doctor has not had the gloves on yet. Surprising, given your age.
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>>
>> and the doctor has not had the gloves on yet.
>>
He did but he didn't even say he loved me first!!
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>> Having said all that, I also visited the doc for having to get up to
>> pee at least twice a night. We've been through various drugs, none of which had
>> any effect, so being a bit anti unnecessary rugs I've stopped taking anything for that.
>> Drinking less doesn't help much either (in fact m often don't have to get up
>> at all if I've had a few beers!)
Here you go, squire. No drugs, let Pelvic Floor Exercises be your new God!
www.nhs.uk/chq/pages/1063.aspx?categoryid=52
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>> to put a bit more effort into losing some weight over the summer but retirement seems to conspire against it - leisurely lunches and more vacations. But I know it's what I need to do.
Get a dog.
;-)
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>> Having said all that, I also visited the doc for having to get up to pee at least twice a night.
Presumably he's checked for diabetes?
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...and an enlarged prostate.
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Specsavers are next on the list for me...
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...not to check for an enlarged prostate, I hope......
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Bin there, done that, and only pee once a night now...
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I was put on statins following a TIA in 2006. After a while, I experienced the same problems that seem to afflict a good may under this treatment, loss of muscle mass and cramps. At that time, there was quite a lot in the press about users who had stopped statins and felt much better as a result . I consulted my GP who agreed I could stop them. The muscle didn't return but I suffer fewer cramps. I noticed no other difference.
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I've been Diabetic for 31 yrs now. I'm 72. I 've been on Statins for a long time with various different ones along the way. I'm currently taking Atorvastatin. Seems OK. I get leg pain and weakness with a loss of balance but we've agreed that it's due to the vein having been removed to do my triple by-pass a few years back.
I was at the diabetic clinic last week and my copy of the results came through the post this morning. All reasonably good and my chloresterol down to 1.1 on the Richter Scale !
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>> and my chloresterol down to 1.1 on the Richter Scale !
>>
I think you need more frequent visits to your local chippy...
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I've been on Statins for years now, I've tried various ones, all apart from Atoravastatin (which i'm on now caused some discomfort, mainly leg pains (as stated by Manatee). They reckon they cut the chance of Heart attack by up to 50%, but as I discovered you can still have one!. I am really surprised you are not on a daily dose of Aspirin (75mg) as they say this is one of the most important drugs you can take to prevent it, ( everybody over 50, especially if coronary disease is in the family, should be taking one daily).
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Aspirin is a non steroidal anti-inflammatory drug. These can cause ulcers and I was warned off the entire NSAID group after a period on one of them (diclofenac, if I recall) resulted in an impending duodenal ulcer.
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This and the "end is nigh" thread make me feel quite fit and sprightly. Certainly more so than some of you pill rattling hypochondriacs.
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>> This and the "end is nigh" thread make me feel quite fit...
Pretty much with you there, I'm a great believer in taking control of your own health through a positive attitude and a healthy and active lifestyle. I intend to just keel over one day much to my own and everyone else's surprise.
;-)
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>> I intend to just keel over one day much to my own and everyone else's surprise.
>> ;-)
Your surprise, and everyone else's delight!
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Almost certainly correct.
;-)
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....your passengers won't enjoy it much, though......
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>> ....your passengers won't enjoy it much, though......
I declined to specify all the autonomous driving features on my Beemer. If I am going to die at the wheel, I am taking all the pax with me.
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>> >> ....your passengers won't enjoy it much, though......
>>
>> I declined to specify all the autonomous driving features on my Beemer. If I am
>> going to die at the wheel, I am taking all the pax with me.
>>
Can it be soon, please?
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When can you get here? or shall I come and pick you up?
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 13 Apr 18 at 18:55
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Are we now taking bets on who dies first on here? Or even wishing fellow members die soon.... Have some stooped that low? :-(
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>> Are we now taking bets on who dies first on here? Or even wishing fellow
>> members die soon.... Have some stooped that low? :-(
Anyone for a tontine?
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>> Are we now taking bets on who dies first on here? Or even wishing fellow
>> members die soon.... Have some stooped that low? :-(
en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/joke
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This is not the first time you've been hostile to Zero though. They have not all been jokes.
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I thought the exchange was quite amusing actually, and Zero's response made me chuckle.
Even if it was not, I doubt Zero needs to be protected. He's not quite that old and helpless just yet.
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>> This is not the first time you've been hostile to Zero though. They have not
>> all been jokes.
Knowing Duncs style it was assumed by me to be a joke and responded to in similar fashion.
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>> This is not the first time you've been hostile to Zero though. They have not
>> all been jokes.
Oh Gawd!
Look, we don't live far from each other.
We almost sort of..... know each other.
I take the pee out of him.
He takes the pee out of me.
Do we have to explain every single thing?
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>> He takes the pee out of me.
Given your age that could be quite a few times a day.
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Look ewe southerners, I may well be of a similar age but have no such afflictions in the bladder department. I empty the tank pre beddies and don’t need to stir out of my pit until the following morning, normally circa 07:30, unless it’s peeing down and I have a duvet morning.
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>> ...and I have a duvet morning...
What do you do then, just wet the bed or what?
;-))
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One does ones ablutions then retires back to bed with a bowl of porridge, a smidgen of maple syrup, mug of Yorkshire tea and a good book.
When it’s pouring with rain, dark and thoroughly miserable out there’s no finer way of frittering away the morning.
Of course there is but this isn’t the place to elucidate...
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>> One does ones ablutions then retires back to bed with a bowl of porridge, a
>> smidgen of maple syrup, mug of Yorkshire tea and a good book.
>> When it’s pouring with rain, dark and thoroughly miserable out there’s no finer way of
>> frittering away the morning.
No.
You are quite right. That is what passes for a good day in Yorkshire.
(That wasn't too hostile was it, rtj70?)
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I know Z threw back insults but I didn't know you were local.* And neither would anyone looking in on the forum as a newbie. So these comments from all are not a good idea.
* and that's from someone who knows what Pat was having for her evening meal tonight ;-) Joke
Last edited by: rtj70 on Fri 13 Apr 18 at 22:55
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>>and that's from someone who knows what Pat was having for her evening meal tonight ;-) Joke
<<
Wrong, haven't had one yet!
Left Scarborough at 16.30 and back home before 20.00, brilliant run down and now trying to catch up on here after a couple of days with no WiFi signal.....why is Yorks so behind?
I'll deal with this after a night in my own bed!
Pat
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>>These can cause ulcers
Thats why the dose is a low 75mg instead of the normal 300mg that everyday common or garden Aspirins are, it is reckoned that we can tolerate that level without the ulcer prob occurring,(but not everything is 100% certain, there will be folk that do get them)
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I see Smokie is on Amlodipine which was also prescribed to me when I first went to the doctors with my ( very).high blood pressure.
I did find out after a year or so of trying to cure swollen itchy ankles that it was Amlodipine causing the problem .
A few months later I visited my brother , it was in summer he was wearing shorts and I noticed that his ankles were swollen and as he mentioned that they were itching as well I asked him if he was taking Amlodipine ...he was ...and a visit to his doctor cured the problem but it does seem to be a common side effect.
As regards statins, I was offered them by my doctor but it seemed to me that it was merely a tick box excercise by my doctor at the time so I turned them down....but I do not rule them out in future . I do not believe in taking pills for no reason.
Last edited by: helicopter on Fri 13 Apr 18 at 11:26
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>> Aspirin is a non steroidal anti-inflammatory drug. These can cause ulcers and I was warned
>> off the entire NSAID group after a period on one of them (diclofenac, if I
>> recall) resulted in an impending duodenal ulcer.
You can get enteric coated aspirin. These dissolve a bit further down the line, so don't irritate the stomach.
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When I had my cholesterol checked last year, I was told that it was 3.5 in total and contained a high percentage of good cholesterol. However, I do take a daily statin and have done for a number of years, not so much for its intended purpose, but for its other potential benefits.
Fortunately the statins haven't given me any bother, although I did stop taking them for about 3 months at one stage, just to see if I felt any different - and as I didn't, I've been happy to carry on with them ever since.
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Cholesterol 3.8 is not high.
For someone who has no symptoms of heart disease/stroke and not diabetic, we usually calculate risk using a tool such as QRisk2 or (or Assign-score in Scotland)
qrisk.org/2017/
Insert appropriate results and out pops the 10yr risk of an event (heart attack/stroke/angina developing).
>20% is the normal threshold for offering statins.
However it is a blunt tool and is more for deciding which 'population' to medicate.
Statin reduce the risk of heart attack by around 25% and every patient's tolerance of risk varies.
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Thanks for that sir
After inputting my details ( with no cheating on weight!) the chance of me having a heart attack or stroke within the next 10 years is indicated at 11.4%.
I’m confident that I’ll be a stone lighter by the end of May..after losing a stone last September because of two weeks daily exercise in the Alps, no alcohol but eating like a horse, some friends told me I was looking a bit thin around the chops. But I did feel disgustingly fit for my age...62, well you would after walking 14 miles a day in t’Alps. Up and down like a brides nighty.
My GP is now phoning me next week to discuss whether I should take the daily Atorvastatin 40mg, for which there was a prescription waiting for me when I visited the surgery today. Strange that my GP prescribed it on the info provided by the nurse without phoning me.
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Mmmm well, that indicates I have a 2.5% chance of having a stroke or heart attack in the next 10 years... which is higher than I’d have guessed :/
Mind you, increasing my weight from 75 to 80,or reducing it to 70 Kgs, made no difference to that, so I might as well eat and drink more ;)
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I've taken statins for many, many, years. No ill effects at all.
I am lucky, I guess. I don't seem to be allergic to anything - except work! The only problem I've really had is that codeine bungs up my bowels, summat fierce, plus it doesn't work for my quite severe sciatica. Oh, I nearly forgot, Warfarin, prescribed years ago had me peeing blood, so I'm on a different anti-coagulent after low dose Aspirin fell out of favour.
Tramadol has a slight up-bunging effect although a good diet helps, as does an occasional day's ingestion of three poo-powders, aka Macrogol. That opens the valves!
Happily, despite the dire warnings of mixing alcohol with Tramadol, a couple of moderate shots of G & T, Bushmills, or perhaps a pint or so of a good beer, has no bad results at all: neither does Tramadol make me sleepy or affect my driving or concentration.
Last edited by: Roger. on Fri 13 Apr 18 at 21:28
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Is it possible that your cholesterol is greater than 3.8, or that the 3.8 refers to Triglycerides (basically the fat in your blood) rather than cholesterol?
Just seems a pretty boring level if it is the total cholesterol level!
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No idea. I shall ask. Thanks for mentioning Lygonos.
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So if statins take it down by 25% it goes from 11.4% to 8% or thereabouts...
I'll not be taking them. Ever! Could do with losing 15kg or so though - even that would leave my BMI at >25, but since I was last that weight in my mid 20s when I was eating no carbs and cycling 100 miles a week there is burger all chance of my BMI being <25. Ever!
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I was put on statins as part of a surgery routine box ticking process for the over 60s. Soon started to get bad leg cramps after cycling... reported back to doctor and we agreed to give them a miss.
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Many years ago I had pain in my foot and eventually went to see the doctor. I had my foot x-rayed and nothing found untoward. The doctor diagnosed "heel spur" and suggested I wore trainers and get gel pads for inside my shoes. This went on for some years and I was in excruciating pain.
On holiday in France I was reading the Sunday Telegraph and an article by Dr Le Fanu mentioned statins as a cause of pain in various parts. I was taking Pravastatin for some years so I decided to stop them and see what happened. Within two days my "heel spur" was no more. I kept off them for a week and I was fine. I decided to go back on Pravastatin, and within a few days my foot problem returned, so I discontinued taking them.
When I returned home I went to see the doctor who agreed that Pravastatin had caused the problem. He changed these to Atorvastatin with no return of the problem.
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As I mentioned earlier, I have been on statins for 28 years. The actual product has changed over the years and I have been for some time taking Atorvastatin - with no obvious ill-effects.
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Statins - CGNorwich
