Motoring Discussion > Merge in turn Miscellaneous
Thread Author: Hard Cheese Replies: 29
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 Sat 21 Aug 10 09:18 
 Merge in turn - Hard Cheese

When oh when will the authorities put up merge-in-turn signs where dual carriage ways end?

It would avoid the 1/2 mile queue and 1/2 mile empty lane scenario that causes unneccesary delays to people turning off before the end of the dual carriageway. It would also stop the selohesra that straddle two lanes to stop those in the outside lane making legitimate progress and it would also deter the 318d driver yesterday on the A303 that, despite everyone else merging in turn, did everything he could to avoid a 911 from getting in front of him despite it being the Porches turn.



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 Sat 21 Aug 10 09:29 
 Merge in turn - John H
>>
>> making legitimate progress and it would also deter the 318d driver yesterday on the A303
>> that, despite everyone else merging in turn, did everything he could to avoid a 911
>> from getting in front of him despite it being the Porches turn.
>>

You should have taken out your camera, assuming you carry one like all sensible motorists are advised to do, and photographed the 318d driver and car while making it very obvious to him/her that you were doing so. He/she will sweat it out for a few days after that awaiting a knock on the door from the BiB, and may even learn not to be so inconsiderate when faced with the same traffic conditions in future. :-)
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 Sat 21 Aug 10 09:34 
 Merge in turn - Zero
If I saw a bloke taking my photo for not merging in turn I would not be sweating or worrying about visits from B-i-B.

Exactly what rule did it he break? Its not yet illegal to be a Richard Head.
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 Sat 21 Aug 10 09:38 
 Merge in turn - Hard Cheese

>> Its not yet illegal to be a Richard Head.
>>

True and merge-turn-signs would probably not be backed up by legislation, rather they would establish a common understanding and ensure that all lanes are utilised and sensible progress made without the need for anyone to get hot under the collar.

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 Sat 21 Aug 10 09:51 
 Merge in turn - John H
>> If I saw a bloke taking my photo for not merging in turn I would
>> not be sweating or worrying about visits from B-i-B.
>>

But then you are special, and you do not drive a BMW! :-)

>> Exactly what rule did it he break? Its not yet illegal to be a Richard
>> Head.
>>
Breach of Highway Code, which says "where lanes are restricted due to road works, merge in turn".
Also, as Cheddar says "the 318d driver .. did everything he could to avoid a 911 from getting in front of him", that could be classed as obstruction, inconsiderate driving, or even dangerous.

Last edited by: John H on Sat 21 Aug 10 at 09:51
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 Sat 21 Aug 10 09:56 
 Merge in turn - Hard Cheese

Though it wasn't roadworks rather simply the end of the dual carriage way. Signs are needed.
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 Sat 21 Aug 10 10:06 
 Merge in turn - hobby
Going back to the OP, yes, Cheddar I too wish they'd put them in... Though my last experience of them was on the dual carriageway going towards Dundee several years ago, and guess what? We still had the prat who straddled the lanes!
Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 26 Aug 10 at 01:32
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 Sat 21 Aug 10 10:05 
 Merge in turn - Zero
Breach of the highway code, is not in itself, an offence, Nor is faling to let someone in an offence. Obstruction? not really. Dangerous? - nah the other guy is making the move.
Last edited by: Zero on Sat 21 Aug 10 at 10:07
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 Sat 21 Aug 10 10:08 
 Merge in turn - Bellboy
no comment from me on merge in turn as i see enough shellfish driving as it is
i cod you not
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 Sat 21 Aug 10 10:13 
 Merge in turn - hobby
Why is merge in turn selfish, BB?
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 Sat 21 Aug 10 10:15 
 Merge in turn - Bellboy
>> Why is merge in turn selfish, BB?
>>>
>>>i mean selfish drivers are all too common on the road so getting them to merge in turn with a pretty sign just wont work in my opinion
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 Sat 21 Aug 10 10:17 
 Merge in turn - hobby
Ah, yes... I agree with you there...

The thing is it needs to be done countrywide, if it was people would get used to it, and... eventually... it would become habit and work... But its so rarely seen at the moment its a non-starter!
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 Sat 21 Aug 10 11:16 
 Merge in turn - Skoda
>> The thing is it needs to be done countrywide

Aye it'd be nice.
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 Sun 22 Aug 10 13:39 
 Merge in turn - Bill Payer
>> Breach of the highway code, is not in itself, an offence, Nor is faling to
>> let someone in an offence. Obstruction? not really. Dangerous? - nah the other guy is
>> making the move.
>>
It's Driving without due care and consideration for other road users, which comes under the catch-all of Careless Driving now.
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 Sun 22 Aug 10 13:44 
 Merge in turn - Iffy
...It's Driving without due care and consideration for other road users, which comes under the catch-all of Careless Driving...

Yes, we had this with the woman who caused a fatal accident by stopping to read a map.

There was no law against her stopping, but she was convicted of causing death by careless driving.

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 Sun 22 Aug 10 14:15 
 Merge in turn - Zero

>> It's Driving without due care and consideration for other road users, which comes under the
>> catch-all of Careless Driving now.

Not its not. Not letting someone in is not "driving without due care and attention"
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 Sun 22 Aug 10 14:19 
 Merge in turn - Iffy
...Not letting someone in is not "driving without due care and attention"...

It is if a police officer reports you for it, you receive a summons and the magistrates find you guilty.

What you think in this scenario matters not a jot.
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 Sun 22 Aug 10 14:24 
 Merge in turn - Zero
This started when someone said they would be worried abouit a photo being taken. So no policeman there.

You have heard of people defending themselves in court have you not? Pretty sure I could defend a "driving without due care" case where someone else was pushing in.

Your opinion is valueless as well, only the judges opinion counts.

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 Sun 22 Aug 10 14:30 
 Merge in turn - Iffy
..Pretty sure I could defend a "driving without due care" case where someone else was pushing in...

You could certainly try.

But having sat through a few cases over the years, my experience tells me the bench would take the word of the police officer who says your driving was careless, rather than your word saying it was was not.

'Due care' - unlike speeding - is not an absolute offence, but once that summons is issued, you may as well assume a conviction will follow.
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 Sat 21 Aug 10 17:16 
 Merge in turn - CGNorwich
"When oh when will the authorities put up merge-in-turn signs where dual carriage ways end?"

It is actually increasingly common to see such signs in the form of alternating direction curved arrows painted on the road surface
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 Sat 21 Aug 10 17:24 
 Merge in turn - Armel Coussine
Some people ignore all road markings and just try to shove in where they want. Just as some people will go down the empty left-turn lane and try to shove into the orderly queue for straight ahead.

One should try not to give way to these silly arrogant twerps. Short of metal-to-metal of course. A bit of nerve and being in the right will usually make you prevail. Can't win them all though.
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 Sat 21 Aug 10 23:26 
 Merge in turn - BobbyG
To make merge in turn work, it needs to be done in such a way that neither lane is the right lane to be in beforehand. So line it or cone it in such a way that both lanes have to turn into the new lane and not just a continuation of either lane.
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 Sun 22 Aug 10 00:13 
 Merge in turn - Skoda
>> To make merge in turn work, it needs to be done in such a way that neither lane is the right lane to be in beforehand.

This is a bit location specific, google maps location --> tinyurl.com/2fp7erc link shortened to restore correct page width

Driving home from work a week ago last wednesday i think it was, along Argyle street to the M8 on ramp just off North Street, i was totally struck by how there was no traffic at the lights under the M8. Normally there's queues back to the Marriot hotel entrance.

All the lights were out there, there were no queues on my approach, none backing up onto the M8 off ramp, in fact the only traffic queue at all was from the clydeside express way but even that was moving.

Folks were going through the complex set of junctions at low speed and negotiating with each other (fairly) who goes next.

I reckon they should trial turning those lights off permanently during rush hour. Health and safety would have someone for breakfast at the first bump i suppose.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sun 22 Aug 10 at 00:49
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 Sun 22 Aug 10 15:10 
 Merge in turn - BobbyG
Hear that on the Radio road report Craig. Started off with all lights are out at Anderston, long tailbacks predicted. Ten minutes later in the update it was that traffic was flowing freely......
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 Sun 22 Aug 10 00:08 
 Merge in turn - Skoda
>> One should try not to give way to these silly arrogant twerps. Short of metal-to-metal of course. A bit of nerve and being in the right will usually make you prevail. Can't win them all though.


Not at all AC, that's the stuff traffic jams are made of! Leave a gap, including letting folks freely merge in turn.

Counter intuitive but if everyone prepares a gap on approach to the merging point, every gets home sooner and there's no jam to speak of, also cars don't stop, most folks can manage merging up to around 25mph in traffic without incident if the gaps are good enough.

Of course everyone's determined to be 6 metres closer to their destination at the cost of having to stop in the resultant jam :-(

Keep rolling, don't stop, leave a gap. Everybody wins.
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 Sun 22 Aug 10 00:35 
 Merge in turn - Armel Coussine
>> that's the stuff traffic jams are made of!

No Craig. When two lanes are going into one there's a merging point. When theres a clearly marked left turn lane and a clearly marked straight ahead lane, the merging point is where the marks begin, or before them. Anyone who just goes down the empty left turn lane and then expects to be let into straight ahead lane is taking a damn liberty and will get short shrift from me.

Honest zip-merging is fine. Yobbish hustling isn't. Can't you tell the difference? Do you want to train these carphounds to keep on doing it? Brush them off and hope everyone else does too. That'll learn'em, if they are capable of learning.
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 Sun 22 Aug 10 00:56 
 Merge in turn - Skoda
Some of them are chancing their arms, some of them are lost, some of them aren't really thinking about it at all because their minds are elsewhere.

Worth causing a tailback for? Nah.

Let them go in your gap if thats where they want to go, you can build a new one over the next hundred yards.

They don't realise it (half of them probably don't realise your perceived inconvenience i'd bet! they're away with the fairies), but they're helping the flow of traffic over all. The logic goes something like because mimsers in the main queue are a fact of life, these guys fill in the excessive gaps. Something like you need 20% chancing sharks to keep optimal traffic flow in the real world. Where it goes pete tong is when there are no gaps.

As long as there are gaps and folks are being allowed to merge freely, the traffic never stops, it can slow down but throughput is much higher vs. people closing the the gaps in front of them. You don't get the stop / start until you're 1 phase back from the traffic lights (or whatever the ultimate choke is beyond the merge).

It's all proven by experiment. Falls apart due to human nature and the perception that someone's getting better treatment than ourselves though, we'll never get folks leaving gaps for other folks to use freely, but it would destroy traffic jams, reduce accidents, increase throughput yada yada...
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 Sun 22 Aug 10 14:28 
 Merge in turn - Armel Coussine
Using the wrong lane to get an advantage and forcing into the right lane further forward is usually done deliberately by people who do it as a matter of course. Naturally thy only do it when there's a tailback already. If there isn't one they don't see the need to do it.

As I said, you can't win them all. Someone lets the carphounds in eventually. But I usually don't, if I can avoid it. It's a good idea to press the point that they are being cheeky and are out of order. Otherwise they may get to think that it's all right for them to behave like that.
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 Sun 22 Aug 10 21:24 
 Merge in turn - Hard Cheese
>> Otherwise they may get to think that it's all right for them to behave like that.
>>

That's the point, it is alright to behave like that, you should too, we all should, we all should use both/all lanes right up to the obstruction/start of the single lane and merge in turn when we get there.

Last edited by: Cheddar on Sun 22 Aug 10 at 21:24
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 Mon 23 Aug 10 15:02 
 Merge in turn - hobby
From AC's despcription, the left hand lane which the Yobs use is actually a clearly marked "left turn" lane, not a straight on lane, so I agree he is right, it is not acceptable to use that lane... apart from anything else a person using it could end up blocking someone who is genuinely turning left!
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