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At least the writer's copper friend told it as it was. In reality people have no clue what the cuts have done to the Police service, on top of that they're fulfilling the roles of other emergency service. A friend was a witness to an old lady being blown over in the recent storm, he went to assist as a Police car stopped as well. The Officer asked my friend to phone for an ambulance as a call from the Police would delay the response as there was a professional on scene. 90% of what they deal with stems from the consequence of substance misuse or mental illness - As that May woman said when she was Home Secretary "It's all about Crime" clueless useless pillock.
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>>clueless useless pillock
Oh for sure she is a useless pillock, but she's not clueless. She knows exactly what she is doing. Furthering herself and her career with no regard for others.
And she's PM, so its working out just fine.
She's not clueless, just very unpleasant.
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I withdraw the remark.. I typed worse and deleted it.
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It was the police lack of interest that prompted the link. It will be down to priorities, I got three police cars and five coppers on my doorstep in minutes when I reported a found child before the knew he was missing.
I assume cars are at a greater risk of disappearing if they are near an export point.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 19 Oct 17 at 13:46
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I don't think it's institutionalized lack of interest. It's a Tsunami of work. I worked Monday through Wednesday - in those days I processed or dealt with 137 "flagged" offences. Flagged being Domestic and or Sexual Violence and Youth victims, and also Hate crimes. - None of the unflagged ones were touched - simply because of the tsunami of "flags" All these offences were reported between Saturday afternoon an Wednesday morning across the region. Each one of those would have been dealt with by front line Officers who will have dealing with missing persons, public disorder, accidents and anything else classified as a priority. I don't know what the writer of the article expected the Police to do. It's VRM would have gone on PNC - it's a stolen bit of tin. It's insured, if it pings a ANPR camera it may be found. As dramatic as it is for the owner, it rates a low priority. Anyone who thinks that Officers sit around eating doughnits in this day and age is a deluded moron.
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>>As dramatic as it is for
>> the owner, it rates a low priority. Anyone who thinks that Officers sit around eating
>> doughnits in this day and age is a deluded moron.
I think the point is that unless there is some effort to track down and catch the people who do this, then there really is no reason for them to stop doing it and for it to become an attractive career path for many more.
I don't blame individual police officers, and the resources need to be there, but it shouldn't be ignored.
As to insurance - we all pay for that, it isn't free. And we could end up paying a great deal more.
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>> >>clueless useless pillock
>>
>> Oh for sure she is a useless pillock, but she's not clueless.
>>
Surely even she must know she is way out of her depth. She is a rare political example of the Peter principle.
Her only possible plus point is that she is not Jeremy Corbyn
I am depressed at the state of politics in this country
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With Austria and Spain about to kick off and the state we are in, Europe in general has been screwed by the politicians.
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>> Oh for sure she is a useless pillock, but she's not clueless.>>
She's not useless and she's not clueless though she is not my choice for PM.
>>She knows exactly what she is doing. >>
I am not sure that she does, totally, she's too reactive, not enough forward thinking.
>>Furthering herself and her career with no regard for others.>>
That's unfair on all politicians today, of all persuasions, the vast majority could do better for themselves elsewhere and are in it for the right reasons, because they think they can do good, even JC ...
>> just very unpleasant.>>
And I am sure she is a very pleasant person to meet.
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>>>>Furthering herself and her career with no regard for others.>>
>>That's unfair on all politicians today
I made no generalisation.
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>> >>>>Furthering herself and her career with no regard for others.>>
>> >>That's unfair on all politicians today
>>
>> I made no generalisation.
>>
No, I mean that is often said of politicians today though it is wrong, whether said of May, Cameron, Corbyn, Clegg etc.
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I said it only of May. I've met the woman, albeit some time ago. I believe my opinion is correct.
On what basis do you believe it to be wrong? Hope?
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>> On what basis do you believe it to be wrong? Hope?
>>
As with most of them she could be better off doing something else which to me indicates she is in it because she believes she can make a difference.
Either way I would prefer a different PM though not a different gov, I'd bring back Cameron though that's not going to happen so I am not sure who should replace her.
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>> At least the writer's copper friend told it as it was. In reality people have
>> no clue what the cuts have done to the Police service, >>
Cuts? The police budget is up 36% since 2010.
It is about crime, it's about demand on the police as a resource, it's the RTAs the terrorists, the petty criminals, the druggies etc ...
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and you forget HC, all the other jobs that other public services aren't doing anymore or is Austerity another myth. In real terms Policing budgets have been cut by up to 20% - I don't know where the 36% figure comes from, other then Conservative Central Office.
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The emergency services like the NHS are generally free, so are not sufficiently valued by large numbers of people who are either very selfish or not very good at thinking, and who abuse and waste the resources.
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>> The emergency services like the NHS are generally free, so are not sufficiently valued by
>> large numbers of people who are either very selfish or not very good at thinking,
>> and who abuse and waste the resources.
>>
I agree totally!
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I agree totally!
+1. I'd be happy to pay a tenner for a proper GP appointment.
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>> I agree totally!
>>
>> +1. I'd be happy to pay a tenner for a proper GP appointment.
>>
A tenner? I recently had a text reminding me of an outpatient appointment. It stated a no show costs the NHS £120. I expect the appointment was a 20 minute slot but I was given an OK tick in the box in ten minutes which included a camera up nose and down throat.
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I have just been told that my Son in Law rattled his head off a rock in Fuertevenura earlier this week, a check over, a couple of pain killers, few stitches in his scalp and ear, 280 Euros.
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Hope he's doing okay. Sort of more importantly, your daughter too.... I won't guess at what he was doing that cause this but it must have caused her stress.
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About 2 years ago a friend of mine badly twisted his ankle in Valparaiso.
XRay, painkillers, bandage and leg boot. $640,000 - about £700.
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>> Hope he's doing okay. Sort of more importantly, your daughter too.... I won't guess at
>> what he was doing that cause this but it must have caused her stress.
>>
He jogged into an overhanging rock. One of his daughters was the most distraught, lots of blood from a head cut. My daughters opinion was "He's an idiot and should look where he is going", no sympathy once she realised he was walking wounded. :-)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 19 Oct 17 at 23:12
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Walk in clinic, x-ray and diagnosis of broken hip, signed fit to fly form, Havana Cuba - £50
Crutches, £40
Didn't even make the excess limit on my medical insurance.
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>>I'd be happy to pay a tenner for a proper GP appointment.
Add a zero.
your-gp.com/services/gp-services/gp-appointments/
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Out of interest what proportion of patients turn up at GPs with trivial ailments that could be self treated or are hypochondriacs with non existent conditions?
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>>Out of interest what proportion of patients turn up at GPs with trivial ailments that could be self treated or are hypochondriacs with non existent conditions?
Trivial to them or me?
Hypochondria is an existent condition.
Everything can be self-treated. At least once!
Of 30-35 patients I see in a day 29-34 are likely to survive without my input.
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>> Of 30-35 patients I see in a day 29-34 are likely to survive without my
>> input.
My last GP visit was for an infection around my right big toe. I'd have survived unless the itching while wearing shoes drove me to attempt amputation.
Flucloxacilin sorted the irritation in 36 hours. Perhaps 36 hours in flip flops would have sorted it too. Provided I'd not murdered one the multiple colleagues who said 'it's not the weather for flip flops Simon'.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Fri 20 Oct 17 at 21:13
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>>Perhaps 36 hours in flip flops would have sorted it too
Nah - more likely 5-7 days unless you were very unlucky and it decided to spread.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lymphangitis - pre-antibiotics this condition had a significant mortality attached to it.
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>>Of 30-35 patients I see in a day 29-34 are likely to survive without my input.
What do you reckon on this doctor doc: www.drchatterjee.com/about/
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Treat the cause, not the symptoms - who'da thunk it.
Unfortunately many don't want to hear that being a fat git, eating/drinking/smoking the wrong stuff, or simply getting older leads to not feeling well.
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He (Dr Chatterjee) was on the idiots lantern this morning. Check 'im out doc, when you get the thyme:
I hr 20 mins in and again at 2 hr 54 mins: www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b098rwtp/breakfast-21102017
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>> and you forget HC, all the other jobs that other public services aren't doing anymore
>> or is Austerity another myth.
Austerity is not a myth, it's a necessity so we don't leave our kid's in the poo.
> In real terms Policing budgets have been cut by up to 20% - I don't know where the 36% figure comes from, >>
Official figures, where does the -20% come from.
I think we have a number of societal issues currently that revolve around how we use the resources we have, both as a society - how we spend our money, and as individuals - how we use the services provided. Though the bare facts are that in seven years the deficit has been reduced by £110 billion, the NHS budget is up the police budget is up, minimum wage is up, tax free allowance is up, GDP up, unemployment down. Thank god we have not had another seven years of Labour, just think of the size of the poo mountain.
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>> Official figures, where does the -20% come from.
Any figure giving a 30% increase is at odds with reports from NAO and other sources albeit some are anecdotal. Can you provide a link to the source?
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I don't know where the 36% figure comes from
>> Official figures...
These chaps are an excellent source of independent information on claims and counter-claims from partisan politicians:
fullfact.org/crime/police-funding-england-and-wales/
"The police budget is up 36% since 2010" is patently nonsense.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Sun 22 Oct 17 at 03:11
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www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/05/theresa-may-police-cuts-margaret-thatcher-budgets
Tells the story of the cuts. Less cops more demand, cops that aren't being replaced, cops are leaving mid service because of the stresses of the Job.
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www.polfed.org/documents/Financial_sustainability_of_police_forces_040615.pdf
National Audit Office seems to believe that there has been 25% reduction in funding between 2010 and 2015 - but what would they know ?
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>> At least the writer's copper friend told it as it was. In reality people have
>> no clue what the cuts have done to the Police service, >>
>
>Cuts? The police budget is up 36% since 2010.
Even if one accepts the 36%, by how much has their workload increased?
Because if, for example, their workload doubled, then that would represent a very substantial decrease in funding.
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>
>> Cuts? The police budget is up 36% since 2010.
Not according to the national audit office. Direct funding by central government has fallen by 25% in that period, tho is is reduced to a fall of 18% if you take into account the increase of local precepts, and raising finance elsewhere mostly the selling off of police resources, like houses, police stations etc etc.
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Wow, police cuts 18%, crime rises 13%
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41677046
whoda thunk it.
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 19 Oct 17 at 15:11
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I saw one of these today, with four D cells installed it is a cosh thinly disguised as a torch.
A police substitute?
www.aldi.co.uk/workzone-10w-led-4d-security-torch/p/078680162882300
Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 19 Oct 17 at 16:11
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I carry one of these when I walk the dogs of an evening.
maglite.com/shop/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/655x/040ec09b1e35df139433887a97daa66f/4/d/4d-black_640_2_1.jpg
Not only is it a great torch, but with the weight of four D-Cell batteries inside a strong aluminium tube, it has alternative applications as well, if the situation calls for it.
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I have a 6 cell one. I was thinking of throwing it out, but I now see it could be useful.
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I am sure I saw that Aldi torch in store recently - does the packaging not suggest that you keep it by your front door for "emergencies"
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>> I am sure I saw that Aldi torch in store recently - does the packaging
>> not suggest that you keep it by your front door for "emergencies"
>>
That's the one. :-)
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>> Wow, police cuts 18%, crime rises 13%
>>
>> www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41677046
>>
>> whoda thunk it.
>>
Yup. Significantly fewer police, and the lingering effects of a major recession that hit the young disproportionately hard in terms of unemployment and income. We currently have more than a million 16-24 year-olds neither in work or full-time education, a quarter of these being in this position for more than a year.
Anecdotally at least, it certainly feels to me like there has been a rise in the number of people generally who feel they have neither a stake in society, or anything to lose.
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The problem with the NHS and Police is that they will never be adequately funded because there is an ever increasing demand on budgets from new technology as well as a constantly increasing demand for services. It's difficult to stand still yet alone introduce contingency into the system.
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HC have you been able to provide a link to your 36% figure yet?
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>> HC have you been able to provide a link to your 36% figure yet?
>>
I made some notes at the time of the election because there was some total b***** being touted, the figures I have for the police budget are £2.8 billion in 2010 and £3.8 billion in 2017.
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Both those figures seem a bit low for the total police budget?
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>> I made some notes at the time of the election because there was some total
>> b***** being touted, the figures I have for the police budget are £2.8 billion in
>> 2010 and £3.8 billion in 2017.
I think those figures may be part of the total b***** being touted. IFS say spending fell by 14% in real terms between 2010/11 and 2013/15 and has been broadly steady since.
www.ifs.org.uk/uploads/publications/bns/bn208.pdf
Those figures though may deceive as government has jiggered around with formulae for central funding so some areas may have taken larger cuts (and some smaller or not at all).
Also Policing is devolved so what happens in England may be different to Scotland, Wales or NI.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Fri 20 Oct 17 at 09:45
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With cybercrime and fraud costing the economy £193 billion a year you would think that would be a priority for the police but they are not interested or qualified to deal with it and the politicians don't seem to care too much about it either. It's not their life savings being nicked is it!?
Last edited by: zippy on Fri 20 Oct 17 at 11:29
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Zippy, where did that figure come from? It seems incredibly high for UK alone
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The National Crime Agency puts the cost of cybercrime at 11bn*, and the cost of Fraud at 50bn. There was however another report by a university which widened the definition of fraud extensively to include commercial company procurement and bribery** and put the sum at 193bn.
*banks fail to report a lot of cybercrime to bolster their security invincibility credentials.
** Includes sweeteners paid to get contracts abroad in countries where its an expected procedure to do business.
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www.ft.com/content/fbb5c2e8-21ad-11e6-9d4d-c11776a5124d?mhq5j=e5
Much made up by procurement fraud.
I have submitted a SAR for as much, though nothing has come of it because no one cares.
Product sold to Govt for cost +10% as per contract. Contractor buys the product for £1,000 and sells it to the Govt for £1,100 per the contract.
They get a "backhander" from the supplier for £600. This was on a £10m contract, with the supplier - so likely £20m plus to the Govt.
Sorry, the above is behind a paywall...
Google: “Fraud costs the UK up to £193bn per year, reports saysâ€
Last edited by: zippy on Fri 20 Oct 17 at 18:23
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>> "Fraud costs the UK up to £193bn per year, reports says"
At best that is a gross figure, because unless that money is leaving the UK, it is also making some profit.
Arguably if a UK company paid a bribe and took a contract from a foreign company then the UK would make a profit.
If someone gets credit they shouldn't gets a deal they shouldn't etc. etc., that money mostly remains within the UK, so where is the net cost?
Not that I am in favour, but the headline is a nonsense..
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>>At best that is a gross figure, because unless that money is leaving the UK, it is also making some profit
Well, as a small cog, I have reported one potential fraud of £10m+ without even looking for it, so it must exist.
Personally, I think it stinks because it potentially impacts those that can least afford it. Imagine a situation where the man from BT won't connect your phone line unless you pay a £100 back hander on the fee you have already paid.
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>>it must exist.
I have totally no doubt it exists, that wasn't my point. My point was that the headline said "Fraud costs the UK up to £193bn per year" which is a b******* headline.
I was once told by a UK Company Director that if I bought him a £50,000 car he would recommend acceptance of my £21m proposal.
His recommendation would have meant almost certain acceptance.
And that is a simple and trivial example.
It would have cost me £50k, but frankly I would have knocked £1m off the price without blinking, so it wasn't significant.
The customer would have missed out on a discount, but they would have got a critical project delivered where the potential losses from failure were massive.
He would have got a car.
So it wouldn't have cost the UK anything - *net*. Just some of the money would ended up in the 'wrong' place.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Fri 20 Oct 17 at 18:47
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>>So it wouldn't have cost the UK anything - *net*. Just some of the money would ended up in the 'wrong' place.
So, if you jacked up your price to cover the cost of the car or didn't give a discount because of it, the shareholders of the company would have lost out by being overcharged.
You may as well say, a watch was nicked from the jeweller and given to a fence who passess it to a pawn broker. The economy still has the watch so all is well!!!???
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> You may as well say, a watch was nicked from the jeweller and given to
>> a fence who passess it to a pawn broker. The economy still has the watch
>> so all is well!!!???
>>
No I don't think so but if the watch is £1000 and is stolen and sold on the economy hasn't lost £1000.
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>> No I don't think so but if the watch is £1000 and is stolen and
>> sold on the economy hasn't lost £1000.
>>
Tax revenues could be down though:
VAT: £167, plus tax on any profits made on the sale of the watch etc.
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Yes they will, but crucially the loss isn't the total cost.
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>> So, if you jacked up your price to cover the cost of the car or
>> didn't give a discount because of it, the shareholders of the company would have lost
>> out by being overcharged.
Yes. But the UK wouldn't have done.
>> You may as well say, a watch was nicked from the jeweller and given to
>> a fence who passess it to a pawn broker. The economy still has the watch
>> so all is well!!!???
Who said anything was well? You are getting a little over emotional.
All I said was that the headline claiming it cost the UK £xm was a s*** headline.
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so likely £20m plus to the Govt.
>>
To a gov 'account' or an individual?
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A small number of contracts with local and central Govt.
Was working on a credit opinion on the supplier based on the contract cycle.
Was looking through the books and noted about £12m going out to the customer when about £20m was invoiced to the customer.
Asked if the supplier had copies of their customer's contracts and they did - so they could get the pricing "right".
Crooked as ****!
Last edited by: zippy on Fri 20 Oct 17 at 19:08
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>> I think those figures may be part of the total b***** being touted. >>
Hmm.
The underlying issue is what is and is not included in the police budget, and what is under home office, GCHQ, the MIs etc. Also local precept and county/metropolitan contributions vary. It's probably a very difficult area to measure year on year as a lot of the provision is reactive.
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>> Hmm.
>>
Yesterday you stated unequivocally that Police budgets had gone up by 30%. Other figures, particularly the paper I linked above suggest the opposite.
Introducing GCHQ, the MI's etc etc into equation looks extraordinarily like prevarication.
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>> Yesterday you stated unequivocally that Police budgets had gone up by 30%. Other figures, particularly the paper I linked above suggest the opposite.
>>
Actually I said 36%.
>> Introducing GCHQ, the MI's etc etc into equation looks extraordinarily like prevarication.
>>
Its not a prevarication, it's a separate point, the £2.8/£3.8 billion will relate to policing, though what aspects of crime fighting crime prevention, intelligence gathering etc this includes or excludes I don't know ...
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>> Actually I said 36%.
And you've still not stood it up.
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...keep it up Bromp.....
As Dylan Thomas said......
"Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the lying of the Right."
;-)
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In fairness HC had made clear where he got his stats from.
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...I think that must use some new definition of "clear" that varies from the dictionary term....
;-)
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>>It's probably a very difficult area to measure year on year as a lot of the provision is reactive.
P***.
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>>P***.
I can't think what the four letter word beginning with 'P' could have been. A clue please?
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...well, I just added a rodent.....
;-)
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Oh, I considered that but thought it had 2 't's
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P ish - Scots slang for 'nonsense'
Much more frequently used than the English equivalent meaning urine.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Sat 21 Oct 17 at 17:38
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:-)...I knew, I watched Taggert !
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>> :-)...I knew, I watched Taggert !
I knew, I understand fluent Rab C.
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Was Shakespeare Scottish?
Henry V
"P*** for thee, Iceland dog! thou prick-ear'd cur of Iceland"
(Summed up nicely my view of the Icelandic Prime Minister when the Icelandic banks went bust)
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There's an old boozer in central Edinburgh where, many years ago, I witnessed one of my favourite examples of the usage.
A troublesome customer was being ejected by his collar and belt and barred, but he continued to rail at the barman as he left the premises horizontally. I remember his words verbatim to this day... "Yer beers p ish, yer pies are minging, an' you are a miserable auld fat b******."
The barman returned and muttered to the assembled company, "Weel, whit did ye think o' that?!" An old worthy at the bar retorted, "Well, he made a couple o' fair points, but I think he wiz a wee bit bit harsh about the pies..."
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Sat 21 Oct 17 at 20:42
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>> >>It's probably a very difficult area to measure year on year as a lot of
>> the provision is reactive.
>>
>> P***.
>>
Good constructive response there then.
A***hole
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Missed the edit hence the second post.
Also missed your "36% increase in Police spending" evidence.
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Not particularly - takes a govt friendly slant on the byline as you'd expect from the Torygraph
"The crime levels of 1961 and today are markedly different. In 1961, 806,900 crimes were committed whereas ONS data shows that 5.2 million crimes were recorded this year, a 13 per cent rise from the year before."
Is more interesting.
I guess you've given up on the 36% increase yarn ;-)
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>>806,900 crimes were committed
vs.
>>5.2 million crimes were recorded
Recorded and committed are quite different things.
And the environment is so different that straight comparisons of numbers are entirely pointless and misleading.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Tue 24 Oct 17 at 12:33
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People weren't reporting rudeness on Facebook as harassment in 1965!
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Apropos of not much, do you remember actual real chain letters?
They always seemed to create a stir, never quite got the fuss myself.
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Be careful out there! - R.P.
