Non-motoring > Self indulgence.	Miscellaneous
Thread Author: Pat	Replies: 61

Sat 26 Nov 16 05:31   Self indulgence. - Pat

This post is to help me hence the title. We lost Gussy, our 23 year old Burmese recue cat last night. We had him for almost 10 years when we rescued him along with his two sisters who passed away some years ago. They were all old when we brought them home to stop the RSPCA putting them to sleep as they had to be re-homed together and no-one would take all three. He was otherwise known as Kevin, the stroppy adolescent teenager. Burmese cats are very intelligent and vocal, and whenever he was told to do anything he had to debate the point loudly. He was fine at lunchtime and ate all his food before retiring to the sofa but at 4pm he was collapsed and panting by his water bowl. We rushed him to the vet who diagnosed a tumour pressing on his spinal nerves causing him so much pain. We all agreed the time had come but the vet couldn't find a vein or get a cannula in so injected him into his kidney. This relieved the pain but he wouldn't give up. He finally had two more injections into his kidney and two more directly into his heart. The vet said it was more than they normally would give a German Shepherd so he was willful to the end. Sitting here this morning the house is so empty and quiet with four other cats looking for him. Why do we do it? Pat Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 26 Nov 16 06:52   Self indulgence. - martin aston

Pat Sorry it's such a sad time for you but you gave him an extraordinarily long life. It's clear both you and he hit the cat/human jackpot when you took him in. Or, in cat terms, when he chose you. Thats why we do it. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 26 Nov 16 07:48   Self indulgence. - MD

Thinking of you. I know only too well what it's like. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 26 Nov 16 08:04   Self indulgence. - Cliff Pope

Very sad - I'm so sorry. We've had lots of cats over the years, buried them all in the garden in the cemetery or in their favourite spots. I can remember them all. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 26 Nov 16 08:15   Self indulgence. - rtj70

How sad for you Pat. I know how it feels - we lost Twiglet last year. She was 19. Best wishes Rob Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 26 Nov 16 08:08   Self indulgence. - Dog

>>Why do we do it? Because we're animal lovers? I still think of Milo - up behind the shed and 3ft under. But of course he's not really there as such, only his decaying carcase - his spirit has long gone into the, um, ether. Gussy had 23 years of life, so I can't say I'm sorry to hear he has gone, his time had come you see - he's moved on, as we all will eventually. That's the way I see/deal with life/death now, and I can actually be other than sad when sentient beings 'move on', especially if it brings an end to their suffering. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 26 Nov 16 11:07   Self indulgence. - Ambo

I would say I know how you feel, Pat but no-one an ever truly say that about another. However I do have some idea, since we lost our Burmese, Billy, to a throat cancer. His death affected me at least as much as that of any human I have lost and my wife was also devastated. 5 moggies followed him, a British Blue by-blow picked up from a roadside; a mad tortoiseshell from a neighbour's garden; another stray, who hung around the kitchen door until he managed to scrounge a meal or two on the step, then ended up on the sofa and then twin back and whites from a refuge. The usual advice is not to "get another" but I don't agree and I doubt you will. I bought Laki, another Burmese, for Mrs. Ambo. We went to inspect him at the breeder's. She picked him up and after about 60 seconds, turned to me and said "I'm in love!" Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 8 Dec 16 18:50   Self indulgence. - Pat

Ambo I think we're going to have to have another Burmese too. I would just like to find a rescue one who thinks he's an alley cat like Gussy did and not a pure bred one. It's so quiet without one in the house, the others are soooo well behaved! Pat Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 26 Nov 16 10:40   Self indulgence. - PeterS

Taking time to reflect is not self indulgent in the slightest Pat; it's essential. And it sounds like he had a long and rewarding life thanks to your actions. Take care xx Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 26 Nov 16 10:48   Self indulgence. - zippy

Oh Pat, deepest condolences! Pets are so much part of the family and I feel for you! Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 26 Nov 16 11:04   Self indulgence. - madf

Sorry Pat. Losing a loved one is dreadful Know the felling. Mrs madf still mourns our last cat Sooty who died over 20 years ago. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 26 Nov 16 15:41   Self indulgence. - RattleandSmoke

Really sorry to hear this Pat, We don't have any cats any more partly for this reason. It is just heart breaking when they pass away because they are a part of the family. He sounded like he really didn't want to give up the fight, but 23 years is an amazing age for a cat :) Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 26 Nov 16 17:04   Self indulgence. - The Melting Snowman

We had two cats that got to just 20 and just short of 21. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 26 Nov 16 20:30   Self indulgence. - Focal Point

Others have said most that can be said and have said it well. Your pets become your children - you take responsibility for them and make many decisions with them at the centre of the process. They never grow up and remain dependent to the end. You did all the right things, Pat. No need for regret, but plenty for sorrow, otherwise you would not have been the sort of person you are. It is a bereavement, it is a loss, nothing is as it used to be. In time it will be better, but it will always be there. Taking the thread title literally for a moment - yes, it is self-indulgent, but not in any bad sense. I think we all realise that we sometimes need to let our feelings run. There's no disgrace in that. I'm afraid I have been so distraught by pets' deaths - one cat in particular - that I cannot face the emotional turmoil again and have resolutely blocked Mrs FP's wish to have a dog or cat, or preferably both. Maybe that's selfish. Last edited by: Focal Point on Sat 26 Nov 16 at 20:33 Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 26 Nov 16 20:56   Self indulgence. - CGNorwich

Now I understand that it can be good to own a pet. We always had cat until a few years ago and I did enjoy watching them and having them about the place. It is sad when they die but I Ike to think that we looked after them well. I doubt whether many would have put up with the last cat we had but she had a good home here But I don't understand this surrogate human thing. Pets do not become children. They are animals and should be treated and respected as such. It is possible to be overly sentimental. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 26 Nov 16 21:14   Self indulgence. - Dog

We treat our English Pointer and Beauceron like children I suppose, spoil them rotten, always buying toys for them, allow them on the sofas etc. etc. Spend ££££££££££ buying the best cold-pressed (not extruded) or Canadian food for them. Then ya'll take them out for a run off-lead, Cody the Pointer finds a dead rabbit and eats the lot, feet, head, skeleton. Ya know, sometimes you wish you never had a dog!!! Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 26 Nov 16 21:21   Self indulgence. - sooty123

It is possible to be overly >> sentimental. >> Of course, we are only human after all. It's not something you can explain logically. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 26 Nov 16 22:27   Self indulgence. - CGNorwich

Oh, I think it can be explained logically as can all things.and there is plenty of research into the subject. The overly sentimental view of pets is something that is rather modern and mainly restricted to rich Western societies it isn't an inate feature of mankind. Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 27 Nov 16 06:00   Self indulgence. - Pat

Thank you all for the lovely messages and understanding posts. I knew making the post was a self indulgence but I also knew that despite differences on this forum, I am among (virtual) friends and you would understand. Gussy is now buried in a safe and shady spot at the top of the garden with his sisters and we are all trying to get used to how quiet it is.s100.photobucket.com/user/Veeeight/media/Facebook/Cats/1937033_102606349751280_7465181_n.jpg.html Every one of your posts helped us both. Thanks again. Pat Last edited by: Pat on Sun 27 Nov 16 at 06:04 Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 27 Nov 16 09:33   Self indulgence. - sooty123

>> Oh, I think it can be explained logically as can all things.and there is plenty of research into the subject. The overly sentimental view of pets is something that is> rather modern and mainly restricted to rich Western societies it isn't an inate feature of> mankind. >> This example might well be, however we aren't emotionless logicbots processing decisions. We, as humans, are driven by emotions to make decisions that perhaps don't stand up to logic. I think that is something common, that's not exclusive to rich western societies, although this particular example might well be. Last edited by: sooty123 on Sun 27 Nov 16 at 09:34 Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 27 Nov 16 10:34   Self indulgence. - CGNorwich

Well of course we driven by emotions that sometimes don't seem logical but that doesn't mean that there is not a biological purpose behind those emotions even though it might not seem appropriate in a modern world. I will give you an example. We find excrement disgusting. An emotional reaction. All humans have the same action The thought of it near our food is revolting. Well we now know that excrement is teeming with harmful bacteria and avoiding it is sensible. Our ancient ancestors didn't of course know this and excrement is after all a potential food source but evolution produced the emotion of disgust. Those who had that emotion simply lived longer. We now all have that emotion such that even a picture of excrement or decay can trigger it even if that is in itself illogical. We know that picture can do us no harm. We know it is a picture but we still feel disgust. That is what I mean whenI say that everything can be potentially understood even though we have a lot more to understand Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 27 Nov 16 10:46   Self indulgence. - sooty123

>> Well of course we driven by emotions that sometimes don't seem logical Just that was my point. Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 27 Nov 16 10:51   Self indulgence. - CGNorwich

And my point was that those emotions do have a logic even if not understood. Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 27 Nov 16 11:04   Self indulgence. - sooty123

Well until they are understood i don't think anyone can say that. Possible of course but since we don't know. Or perhaps you are right and it turns out overly sentimentalism for pets/human surrogate thing is, on some level, logical and will be well understood by all as to why. Last edited by: sooty123 on Sun 27 Nov 16 at 11:08 Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 27 Nov 16 11:42   Self indulgence. - CGNorwich

To clarify: There is a logical reason why we have emotions. The have evolved for good reason. These may be understood Actions triggered in the modern world by those emotions are not necessarily logical or appropriate. See my example. There are many others, fear of strangers or those who look different to us for example. Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 27 Nov 16 11:50   Self indulgence. - sooty123

> These may be understood > i suppose we'll just have to wait it out then. Last edited by: sooty123 on Sun 27 Nov 16 at 11:51 Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 27 Nov 16 10:52   Self indulgence. - Roger.

SOME people find excrement good for a laugh (or pride)! See www(dot) ratemypoo (dot) com! Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 27 Nov 16 10:42   Self indulgence. - Cliff Pope

>> The overly sentimental view of pets is something that is >> rather modern and mainly restricted to rich Western societies it isn't an innate feature of >> mankind. >> The ancient Egyptians were pretty sentimental about their cats. At least our cats aren't yet divine, but they are working on it. Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 27 Nov 16 11:26   Self indulgence. - Dog

>>The ancient Egyptians were pretty sentimental about their cats. Dogs too: www.touregypt.net/featurestories/dogs.htm K9. Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 27 Nov 16 11:47   Self indulgence. - John Boy

Logic seems to have entered the discussion. So, why is it that meat-eaters in the UK and elsewhere are averse to eating dogs and horses? Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 27 Nov 16 11:52   Self indulgence. - The Melting Snowman

I love horse, I make a point of eating it every time I go to France. Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 27 Nov 16 11:58   Self indulgence. - sooty123

Can't say I've eaten either, not knowingly anyway. Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 27 Nov 16 12:03   Self indulgence. - CGNorwich

>> Logic seems to have entered the discussion. So, why is it that meat-eaters in the >> UK and elsewhere are averse to eating dogs and horses? >> Simply cultural reasons. There is a logical reason for not eating carnivores in that it is not very efficient use of resources. Effectively all animals are dependant on vegetation. It is much more efficient to eat a cow that eats grass directly rather than a lion that eats an antelope that eats grass. Of course it is much much more efficient to cut out the animals and eat the vegetables directly However there are plenty of cultures that eat cats and dogs. As for horses the English have a peculiarly affectionate view of the creatures, much like they have of cats and dogs and they are often treated in the same way and given human qualities. Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 27 Nov 16 12:06   Self indulgence. - Dog

Dogs are mans best friend, they are intelligent too. ditto horses. Cows and sheep just moo and bleat. Pigs are very intelligent too apparently. I've often wondered why more so-called animal lovers aren't vegetarians. Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 27 Nov 16 12:08   Self indulgence. - CGNorwich

"I've often wondered why more so-called animal lovers aren't vegetarians." The smell of fried bacon mostly Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 27 Nov 16 12:31   Self indulgence. - Clk Sec

>>The smell of fried bacon mostly You're right there, CGN. I love the smell of fried bacon, yet I haven't eaten meat for decades. Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 27 Nov 16 12:31   Self indulgence. - Dog

Enjoy your bacon sandwich CG: www.youtube.com/watch?v=80Ey06g5VIE Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 27 Nov 16 12:19   Self indulgence. - sooty123

Pigs are very intelligent too apparently. I've often wondered why more so-called animal lovers aren't vegetarians. >> I've met vegetarians that killed them for hobbie/sport. I think that's quite unusual though. Last edited by: sooty123 on Sun 27 Nov 16 at 12:19 Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 27 Nov 16 12:26   Self indulgence. - Dog

There's nowt queerer than folk! Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 27 Nov 16 12:38   Self indulgence. - sooty123

Yes I thought it quite unusual, this was on a game shoot a while back. Didn't eat them but enjoyed shooting them. Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 27 Nov 16 12:58   Self indulgence. - Dog

Vegetarians can be strange coves - one I know told be he doesn't like vegetables. He/they have been veggie since I first met them back in '88. Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 27 Nov 16 13:19   Self indulgence. - Clk Sec

That would limit their choice of fodder somewhat. Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 27 Nov 16 13:32   Self indulgence. - Dog

They do of course eat vegetables, it's just that at the time he was eating egg, chips, and beans. I said (he said, she said, etc. etc.) eggs are not vegetables me ole fruit. Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 27 Nov 16 13:33   Self indulgence. - John Boy

>> Vegetarians can be strange coves ... Carnivores can be too, which is what prompted my question. Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 27 Nov 16 15:54   Self indulgence. - Mike Hannon

Years ago I was instrumental in discovering and publicising the world's (certifiably) oldest cat and getting him - Spike - into the Guinness Book of Records. His owner always insisted that his longevity was due to a daily rub with aloe vera. His home town even held a joint celebration when he was 30 and the Queen Mother hit the 100. Each year on his birthday my friend and I had made some pocket money by selling his story. We were really upset when he finally snuffed it, aged 31. Reply to this message | Report message

Sun 27 Nov 16 22:50   Self indulgence. - MD

I can't see another coming within a whisker of that. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 28 Nov 16 10:19   Self indulgence. - Mapmaker

Pat I'm so sorry. Lucky Gussy. Reply to this message | Report message       1

Mon 28 Nov 16 14:49   Self indulgence. - Roger.

My daughter's cat is 17. Originally rescued from under the bonnet of her Austin Mini in Spain after a commute from work to home, Lucy, the cat, has since travelled a lot. Two moves in Spain, back to South Yorkshire, then two moves in Nottinghamshire, then to Suffolk, then to Germany, then back to Suffolk and now in Northern Ireland. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 29 Nov 16 20:30   Self indulgence. - zippy

After watching the local news tonight, recounting this event: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zong_massacre I can see why some people prefer the company of animals to humans! Reply to this message | Report message       1

Wed 7 Dec 16 17:30   Self indulgence. - legacylad

I really sympathise with you Pat. It's often hard to remember the good times when the bad times roll. My 12yo Lakeland is currently very ill... I won't go into detail but I'll miss him more than any human family bar one. Take care Reply to this message | Report message       1

Wed 7 Dec 16 18:01   Self indulgence. - Pat

Thanks LL. the house still seems empty and quiet and the others are missing him too. Hope your Lakeland doesn't suffer too much, but I'm sure you'll know when the time is right, however hard it is for you. It really is the last thing we can do for them. It doesn't make it any easier though. Pat Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 8 Dec 16 16:06   Self indulgence. - kb

Pat, I first registered with HJ's BackRoom in about 2002. (Still occasionally stop by there). Did also register here at C4P ages ago, when it started. However for one reason or another...(or possibly two)... I never post here, but do look in now and again but won't resume posting regularly. This post here is my first for ... I don't know how long - years, I expect ... but, because it's you, and because of of your sadness, I want to offer you heartfelt good wishes. Most will know what you felt like after Gussy left you - and lots of us will know that you still feel pretty darned dreadful. TBH our little companion (who died in my arms here at home, a week or so before Gussy went) is still leaving a raw feeling. Not helped by the fact that it was, directly or indirectly - depending how kind you wish to be - my fault she died. Most of us, or, at least, those who have had much loved pets, will remember with fondness and sadness, the delightful times we had with them as well as the emptyness when they go. I wish you well, Pat. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 8 Dec 16 16:17   Self indulgence. - Focal Point

KB, it is good of you to make an exception to your "no-posting" rule for Pat's benefit. To judge from the rest of this thread, Pat's post opened up some raw and difficult memories and experiences for quite a few of us. The responses have been generous and thoughtful, in contrast with some less than pleasant exchanges on certain other topics previously. But it does seem the forum has become a lot quieter recently, which doesn't bode well. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 8 Dec 16 17:30   Self indulgence. - Pat

Thank you so much kb for making an exception on my behalf. Indeed it is still raw, and I suspect will be for sometime. It's very easy to judge this forum by the times we remember, such as the bad times when good manners and consideration go out of the window, but it has to be said that when I felt lost and alone I knew I was among virtual friends. Many of whom I have clashed with in the past, but when I needed a few kind words they were forthcoming, and they helped so much.........just as I knew they would. Please don't give up on us again kb, I really appreciate you making the effort to post and I know others would like to see you posting more often too. It can get a bit tough in here at times but it's much like real life really, when you need a friend you will always find one here and we are a forum of softie animal lovers really! We watched Meggie, Gussy's long time girlfriend, who has been missing him so much, playing with imaginary fairies last night for the first time since he died, so that was a good moment. Just a pity we were in bed and apparently the fairies were in the bedroom and Meggy had clogs on! Pat Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 8 Dec 16 19:48   Self indulgence. - kb

Thanks, Pat. I really only wanted to offer a little something and add to the good wishes the others have kindly shown. And, as it was you, I honestly felt you deserved an extra word of encouragement. I realise there will be those who might be thinking that you/we should 'get over it' and may well consider we all have more important or significant things to worry about - and I'm sure there's some truth in that. But, as we know, it doesn't always work quite like that and no matter how 'hardened' you [and I] are supposed to be (we both had associations with physical, down to earth, occupations) ... you're not really supposed to show feelings of loss and sadness of a 'mere' puss cat for any length of time. However these things DO creep up on us and have the power to suck the enthusiasm from us for longer than it should and could have the effect of making us feel guilty as and when we start to cheer up a bit - at which point we feel we should revert to our grieving state for a bit longer. Our little lady who left us recently was someone's pet rabbit who I found after she'd been dumped in a car park and we only had her for a year or so and we miss her awfully... but, we have now, and have had before, a number of long term puss cats and the ones that are with us no more left us bereft at the time in the same way we feel bereft that the little rabbit's gone. All are remembered with affection and were part of our life. But please, please keep your pecker up, Pat....easier said than done...but I would guess that after a suitable period of time and adjustment then things will perk up. We're all as daft as each other deep down! I was amused about the fairies and shall re-read that bit. I swear one of our present cats is seeing the same sort of thing...the only problem is the fairies seem to emerge at approx 0445 hrs - every morning without fail...in our bedroom! Much scratching and noise making activities are carried out until one of us gets up to attend upon him. I'll continue to look in, as I have done all along the way - but I have to say the various discourses between one or two prominent and, dare I say, overly self important, and, at times thoroughly unpleasant, characters versus the rest have ensured I keep any thoughts I might have had well and truly to myself. I think I might have seen that another place has evolved and that it has drawn some of their attention away from this place. Mark my words I have zero desire to go there...and they, in turn, would have no wish to see me there either. Long may that remain the case. Nothing further to be said about that. All the best, Pat. Over and out. Reply to this message | Report message       1

Thu 8 Dec 16 20:09   Self indulgence. - The Melting Snowman

>>Mark my words I have zero desire to go there... A clever play on words. Reply to this message | Report message       1

Fri 9 Dec 16 03:14   Self indulgence. - Pat

A very clever play on words! Strangely though, if I needed help I know it would be there from all of those I have clashed with in the past, just as they know I would help them if I could. Pat Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 9 Dec 16 08:58   Self indulgence. - Focal Point

The "other place" used to refer to HJ (or was it that, when on HJ, one referred to c4p as "the other place"?) Anyway, KB is presumably referring the other "other place". Things seem pretty quiet there, too. And the busiest part of it seems to consist of fairly amiable ramblings, which are innocuous even if trivial. Other message boards that I frequent, focused on totally different themes from here (you'd be surprised!) also seem to have gone quiet. One of them has had only a monthly comment from admin. for some time now. I don't know if that's some sort of trend. If people are interacting more in the real world it could actually be a good thing. HJ seems to tick over much as before, however. It may go some way to reassure people that the unpleasant stuff we had here a while back (and which KB is alluding to) is not the only reason things have gone quiet, though quite clearly it has taken its toll. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 9 Dec 16 10:32   Self indulgence. - VxFan

>> Other message boards that I frequent also seem to have gone quiet. Yeah, I've noticed that too with some of the other forums I browse. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 9 Dec 16 10:43   Self indulgence. - The Melting Snowman

>>HJ seems to tick over much as before, however. It's significantly quieter than it used to be. I remember in its heyday (2006/07 ?) that a day's worth of postings would more than fill a page. Now it's not unusual for four or five days' worth to be on the same page. It's a trend I've noticed on other forums too, not just motoring ones. I think people are connecting to the web in different ways (twitter) but more than anything I think it's just the novelty of website forums has worn off. Being able to post content and contribute to discussions was a 'big thing' ten to fifteen years ago. Not so now. Last edited by: The Melting Snowman on Fri 9 Dec 16 at 10:44 Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 9 Dec 16 11:11   Self indulgence. - DP

>> It's a trend I've noticed on other forums too, not just motoring ones. I think people are connecting to the web in different ways (twitter) I would agree with that. I use phone apps a lot more than browsers now. For example, I can't remember the last time I logged into Facebook, eBay or Amazon via a browser, as they all have very slick Android apps that make it so much quicker and easier. Forums in general seem to be very badly supported by mobile platforms. I've not posted much here lately, but I have lurked. It did all seem to get a bit unpleasant for a while, but on the whole it only seems to have ever been a tiny minority. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 9 Dec 16 11:28   Self indulgence. - The Melting Snowman

>>It did all seem to get a bit unpleasant for a while, Indeed, although for those of us whose children have long grown up and left home, it was at times quite entertaining. Reply to this message | Report message