We know PeterS is enjoying his A3 e-tron. And Crankcase has an all electric car. I was wondering if anyone else has experience to share?
I've got 12 months before I get a new car and will start looking in earnest in the new year. For my journey's then an all electric car for 80% of the time would work except:
1. We don't have a driveway as such that it could be parked on to charge and so
2. I can't always guarantee a spot outside the house to charge it.
And of course the other 20% of journeys are easily over 200 miles. My brother has a Tesla which he likes and I'm sure he's making good use of the free electric from the supercharging points on offer from Tesla ;-)
A neighbour just tried out a Volvo XC90 T8 Hybrid and loves it. He has done the calculations and it works out good for him despite costing £65000. But it's a company car and the BIK will be low for such a big and nice car.
So I'm going to look at the Passat GTE. I'm not sure what else will be on the list when I get to choose (no Hyundai's for instance). I will be going for something bigger than an A3 or Golf next time.
Of course the GTE may cost more than I'm allowed to pay up to and I end up with a petrol or diesel. I know the Prius plugin was a good price overall taking into account tax, etc. when I looked in 2014 but I don't like the look of the Prius. Although have a future car that looks like a more conservative version. And there will eventually be a Tiguan GTE.
It would be interesting to know what others on here have experienced in the real world. For some reason, I seem to think Stephen has an electric or hybrid but I might be wrong.
|
|
If you can't guarantee being able to charge a plug in hybrid most of the time, either at home, work or elsewhere then I can't see that lugging 200odd kgs of battery and associated stuff really makes sense, other than for tax reasons. And the BIK on these cars rises pretty sharply in the next few years I think.
|
I agree, I see no point in having a plug in if you dont have the ability to regularly charge at home.
I think a hybrid like the IS300h might be a better option, although not sure about the tax situation
|
>>BIK rises
Yes but they are still have lower overall BIK rates than diesel and petrol only cars, so whilst the advantage reduces, there remains an advantage in getting one.
|
|
The Passat GTE is reviewed in this weeks Autocar, by the way. Broadly positive, but no comparison with other PHEVs
|
.*********
Some weeks I'd not need to plug the car in more than twice a week to cover my miles on all electric.
The batteries and motor in the DSG does not come to 200kg mind. I think it's more like 140kg.
|
Pretty sure it's more than that...the e-tron weighs 1,540kgs I think, where as the A3 platform itself is fairly light. I think a petrol A3 is sub 1,300? At least, that's what Parkers says...
Plugging it in overnight means that you'd be able to use the pre-conditioning function as well, to heat / cool / defrost the car before you set off. Which extends battery-only range
|
Just looked at the Auto Express review of the Passat GTE again. The GTE is 110kg heavier than the diesel DSG. Well I know the engine and gearbox in my A3 is a lot light than a diesel with a DSG - you can feel the difference when driving.
So yeh looks like 200kg. Quite a bit to lug around if you don't take advantage of the plugin bit.
I'd only ever go for one if it works out cheaper. But I'm thinking a Passat estate might be a good car next for my needs and lower BIK will offset fuel usage even if I don't charge it up to full all of the time.
|
Whilst I appreciate the convenience and common sense in a PHEV, or a REX, there was definitely a feeling for me at purchase that a BEV means you are not either hauling around a lump of batteries using fossil fuel, or at the flick of a button, hauling around a non working ICE with your batteries.
But I can see the appeal in the real world.
PS, just in case anyone cares:
PHEV - plug in hybrid vehicle
REX - range extender
BEV - Battery electric vehicle
ICE - Internal combustion engine
|
>>
PHEV - plug in hybrid vehicle
REX - range extender
BEV - Battery electric vehicle
ICE - Internal combustion engine
I wouldn't have known any of them. ICE 'in my day' meant in car entertainment. Duh!
|
Started seeing ICE in articles recently and like Dog that means the car stereo. Worked out it meant the internal combustion engine. I know PHEV.
So what's a fuel cell car then Crankcase?
The Ampera was going to use the engine as a range extender. But I seem to recall it had problems keeping the speed up on inclines so the petrol engine did a little more than recharge batteries. The i3 on the other hand does only use the bike engine as a range extender.
|
ICE to me means G&Ts
Or Margeritas if I'm in sunny CA!
|
Different experiences..
It means Immigration and Customs Enforcement to me.
|
Correct Rob. How did you know that? I don't remember saying it here, but I am flattered if you really are stalking me. ;-)
I had to lose our V50 1.6 Drive-e as a company car earlier this year. Basically the BIK rises year on year plus an extra 2% because diesels are no longer in vogue with the government. So after 6 years it was the perfect car for anyone wanting a car that felt new, dealer serviced from new, done all the depreciation, not a scratch on it kind of thing. It was a real shame to lose. My wife still mourns it. Furthermore it really struggled to pull our new caravan. Basically despite having an engine remap first gear is too high and start stop in traffic, especially with any kind of incline, was a painful experience.
So the only option I had for a company car that would pull the caravan was a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV. We leased one just before the government 5K grant dropped. I had previously taken advantage of the free offer at the time of a charging point. When that was fitted by British Gas they asked whether I wanted a Type 1 or Type 2 tethered connection. Because I had no idea what car we were going to get I said type 2 because I thought that things would have moved on by the time I got round to getting a car.
However, the Outlander, being Japanese uses a Type 1 connector and at the time you couldn't get an adaptor to go 2 to 1 because the plug on the end of the tether has pins in it to stop you doing this, although I believe one of our client's websites www.evcables.co.uk now sell one.
As I didn't have that solution I changed the tethered plug for a Rolec 32A type 2 socket charging unit and got a 5m type 2 to type 1 cable. Most charging posts in the UK are now using type 2 sockets, so the cable is a handy thing to have anyway.
Incidentally if any of you need a 32A tethered type 2 charger, drop me a line because I haven't got around to selling it yet.
So how is the car?
In short it's ok for everything it was bought for. Low BIK - only 5% this year. I believe it is 7 next, and then terrible after that. No road tax and no congestion charge.
Towing the caravan in traffic is a breeze. It isn't super powerful for this as it only uses electric to 40mph and you only have around 95BHP on the 2 electric 4WD motors. A 2 litre petrol drive cuts in above this but only if it it can do comfortably and has run out of battery. So I don't think it would be great if you had to do a hill start with caravan on a steep hill. Unlike other hybrids it rarely runs with both electric and direct petrol drive simultaneously. Think of it as a petrol generator for battery assisted electric drive, with the option of a single speed auto box for direct petrol drive when above 40mph.
On full charge, towing it does about 15 miles on electric followed by 23mpg average. A lot lower than towing with the diesel Volvo at 42mpg (57mpg normal).
In normal use it gives around 24 miles electric followed by around 45mpg. If you drive around the New Forest at 30mph you can get as much as 32 miles on electric. Cold weather reduces the electric range, even if you elect to have everyone sit in the car with blankets on and the heaters off! Yes, it's a joke, new posh car and can't afford to run the heating. ;-) The heated steering wheel and bum seems to make all the difference.
If you are regularly doing long distance it isn't the right car. Diesels are a better choice. But if most of your normal journeys are sub 30 miles and you always charge at home then it is brilliant.
It used to be worth charging on the Ecotricity highway rapid charging points because you could get 18 miles from flat in around 25mins for free. The CHAdeMO DC charger does around 300V, 50A. But now that Ecotricity charge £6 for half an hour (unless you are on their home electricity tariff) it isn't worth it. Using petrol is cheaper and easier. In short it isn't worth charging it anywhere out unless you are at a camp site like I am now, or are using it to get the cheap parking in town. Yes, one big advantage at the moment is that you get some pretty prime location parking spaces in towns that have charging points (e.g. Brighton or Source London). That is unless they are 'ICE'd up by a non-electric car.
Charging at home takes 5.5 hours on the supplied 6A charger that goes into the domestic 3 pin plug. If you use the dedicated charger it takes 3.5 hours because the car is limited to 10A. So I could have saved some money and used a standard 16A charger instead of the 32A as it doesn't make any difference on this car to charging time.
On the other hand....
We also lease a BMW i3 for my daughter. This is basically a high-powered milk float. It accelerates like crazy, not Tesla crazy, but with thin tyres and disks is not great for handling and braking. I would describe it as very twitchy to drive, especially at speed. When I first got it I nearly ran onto a roundabout because the brakes were so poor. To be fair that was probably because they were just new. It doesn't seem to be so bad now but that might be just because I am more used to it. You still can't stop in it like you can in say the V50. But being an 'eco' car you probably shouldn't be driving it like that anyway.
However, with it's 85mile range, it is great for all local trips. We have the REX model but have only needed to use it once, and that was only for 10 miles.
Cars like this just take a bit of advance planning to use effectively. So, for example, as we have 8KW of installed solar, it makes sense only to charge them over the midday period to use up the excess solar power that would otherwise go back to the grid as it is effectively free electricity. Because the way the solar tariffs work you get paid whether you use the energy or not.
The i3 can also make full use of the 32A charger, taking around 3 hours for a full charge. That's around 7KW - so it's a lot of power and sometimes if it is a bit cloudy we use the car setting to charge at reduced rate to make the most of the solar excess. This car is also a Type 2 connector so we had to get a type 2 to type 2 cable and use the same charge point as the Outlander.
On eco pro+ mode, this car will do over 95 miles on a full charge, but this setting limits you to 56mph and reduces the aircon and acceleration.
Overall it's quite a fun car to drive, but not great for anyone in the back seat. Most passengers have complained that the ride makes them end up feeling a bit sick. This is most likely the combination of harsh acceleration, poor ride quality and not being able to see ahead past the high front seats.
Like most full electrics bar Teslas you can't have it as your only car. But if you are mainly doing short journeys, have excess solar to soak up, or are leasing through a company, it seems to make sense.
|
>> Correct Rob. How did you know that?
Pretty sure you'd said. Maybe it was in an email. Don't know how I know to be honest. Lucky guess? Or remembering vaguely e-Drive from the Volvo?
You seemed like the sort that would though.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Fri 9 Sep 16 at 22:36
|
You know what I don't think you'd said either ;-) But I still stand by what I said the other night - I thought you had one and you do. IT people you see.
As for the i3 - I thought you could alter the rate of regenerative braking. Using the paddles maybe?
Last edited by: rtj70 on Fri 9 Sep 16 at 22:42
|
|
You probably have a secret, petrol or diesel car as well though. i3 is for your daughter. The PHEV as family car... so there is a third car. I hope it's a fun car. FIAT 124 type fun (new 124 that is.. better still the Abarth) or Mazda MX-5.
|
>> IT people you see
I know of no IT people with Outlander PHEVs, but I do know 4 company directors with them.
The Outlander PHEV has paddles, not the i3.
It also has weird logic where select drive is stick back, and reverse stick forward. Regen minus paddle means increase regen. I guess this is just how the Japanese think.
The i3 just has one regen setting which is on all the time - severe. On the Outlander scale of of 0 to 5 it would be 8. It's so strong you can bring the car to a standstill using it whereas the Outlander regen cuts out below around 10mph. On the Outlander touching on the brakes seems to apply a bit more regen than simply lifting one's foot off the accelerator.
The scary thing is to remember to actually use the brake pedal if the region isn't strong enough. There are plenty enough times where I have nearly run into things thinking that the braking was sufficient on regen alone.
Funny enough the most efficient thing to do is turn regen off and let the car roll if possible, only applying regen if braking is needed. This is because the loss of conversion efficiency.
|
>> I know of no IT people with Outlander PHEVs, but I do know 4 company directors with them.
Kind of a generalisation on my part - hybrids and electric cars = geeky, and so are IT types.
|
>> hybrids and electric cars = geeky
One day you will ALL be geeks. There is no escape.
|
>> Pretty sure you'd said. Maybe it was in an email. Don't know how I know
>> to be honest. Lucky guess?
Not in any email to you though, and not on any social media either. Oh well...
|
|
It's the predictability of being part of the Matrix.
|
|
Matrix.....an ugly little Hyundai, the result of the designer of the rear end not having met the designer of the rest of the car until rather too late in the process.
|
|
Probably me remembering the Drive-E and making 2+2 = 3. But for some reason I still thought you were likely to have either a PHEV or an all electric car. I can't explain why I had that idea. Forgive me for saying it but I had you down for either a Leaf or similar ;-) You're not foolish enough to go for a Tesla Model S because of the compromises - can you tow with a Tesla Model S?
|
|
No, but you can with a Model X.
|
|
And I rather think you can pull with either....
|
While the Model S is powerful enough to tow, it doesn't accept a tow bar.
The problem with the model X and 3 is that you simply can't get hold of them. Goodnesss knows what the range on the Model X is towing either.
The model 3 is cheaper than the i3 and has over double the range. It would have been the one to get, but they will only be available in the US end of next year - and over here at least a year after that.
|
|
Even with towing with the Model X, where do you charge it up? All the bays I've seen are single and the ones in North Bristol you reverse into as well. I suppose you could unhook the caravan, charge up, then re-attach....
|
>> where do you charge it up
Good question. Unhook and reattach seems to be the only option.
|
Plug-in Hybrid Experience - PeterS
