So, it's been a while since I went on at length about the Renault Zoe.
I wonder, in the intervening months, whether anybody has thought any more about such things, positive or negative, or whether it's still not mainstream enough to be interesting?
In terms of what has changed since my last set of ramblings - the car has driven faultlessly. Now at 4500 odd miles, electricity running costs for that have been in the order of £35. Commuting and local runs it does excellently, lovely to drive, so on and on.
The internal satnav has a load of apps that do traffic and so on, and traffic failed to update. A whole saga with Renault customer services eventually got it working again, after two dealer visits, and, they tell me, the French server being turned off and on again. Hmm. so that wasn't brilliant but had no bearing on the car itself of course.
Finally, the much vaunted free electricity on motorways has come to an end - it's now £6 to charge for 30 minutes. I've never used any of those and never intend to, so for my usage pattern that makes no odds. I think as long as most journeys in electric cars are local commutes and run rounds, it won't affect most people. Those who DO do long journeys are pretty grumpy about it, but there are so many variables affecting a given journey I won't bore you all with why they shouldn't be, really.
Finally, would I buy one again? Well, if as rumoured there is soon to be a variant with double the range, then certainly. If that doesn't transpire, then still certainly. However, until the range increases our (expensive) strategy of keeping the Volvo for holidays will stay. A double range Zoe and I would sell the Volvo quite happily. It feels really primitive and noisy and smelly and expensive to fuel, for one thing, even though I do like driving it very much. Only used one tank of fuel in it since January though.
Last edited by: Crankcase on Tue 26 Jul 16 at 09:46
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Its funny what you adapt to. When I switched last year to hybrid it was really because the tech appealed to me - I like clever stuff
15 months down the line and I couldn't see me switching back to a diesel car.
Not sure I'm ready for full electric, but the outlander PHEV appeals
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Friends have got a Outlander PHEV- OK as far as it goes, but thirsty when it doesn't IYSWIM! And it doesn't fit the 3 child seats they now need in the back, so it's for the chop.
I'd consider electric, but I need 60+ mile range in Scottish winter conditions for my commute - and the price would have to come down a lot to give any saving over a £3k semi-banger diesel at 60+ MPG!! How long before HMG decides that there are enough elec cars, and starts to put 'fuel duty' on electric? 'Zero' emissions cars are no longer Co Car tax exempt, so it will no doubt come.
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Keep the updates coming. I keep reading about more and more people with them and all seem quite happy. Many say similar that they couldn't go back to ICE car. The cost seems incredibly cheap, are you on a econ7 rate? I know someone with a leaf, i think it's costs him about a fiver a week to commute.
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The plug-in hybrid interests me for next year. They might typically have a 50km/31mile range but for a lot of my driving that would cover it. And then increase mpg slightly for longer runs.
I'd have to be happy with (a) the feel of the increased weight, (b) overall cost saving vs a petrol/diesel equivalent model and (c) want the actual model.
The Passat GTE seems to be slow coming to the UK.
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You'll not, as market conditions stand, honestly save money with an electric car. They cost more to buy than the "normal" equivalents, and that's the end of it. They do cost a lot less to run though, so there's endless opportunity for some creative arithmetic if you are so inclined, to minimize the difference.
You can also play with factoring in greenery, as so inclined.
But APART from all that, they are great to drive and just make you (me and others anyway I suppose) feel good when driving them, so that's another factor.
But knowing what I know now, I'd be asking hard questions about usage patterns before recommending. Upthread someone says "60 miles in Scottish winters". No issues at all.
PHEVs are the ones most hit by the new motorway charging costs, as the chargers on PHEVS are generally SO feeble and slow that they take an eternity to charge up and then run only a few miles. Again, usage pattern analysis before purchase, and that's all a bit too complex for most to be bothering with.
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While driving at a sedate 70 mph on the M8 this morning I was passed by a BMW i8 as if i was going backwards. Could he have been in a hurry to get to a charging point?
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>> You'll not, as market conditions stand, honestly save money with an electric car. They cost
>> more to buy than the "normal" equivalents, and that's the end of it.
You didn't factor in BIK. When I was choosing this car, the £35k Prius plug-in hybrid was cheaper than the £25k Prius because of BIK.
I'd not even consider a PHEV unless it would work out cheaper. I'd not get it for the sake of it because of the compromises. But depending on monthly rental, a Passat GTE might make a case for itself. List price is higher but the BIK rate would be a lot lower.
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I agree that new you are very unlikely to save money with an EV, unless it's a company car. Buying privately nearly new, as we did with our A3 is a different matter I think. It was still pricey, but not much more than any other petrol A3 sport back with 6k miles on the clock. It was however much better equipped - vs a standard petrol A3 it has an auto box, panoramic sunroof, leather/Alcantara heated seats, LED headlights, MMI satnav. They were all ~£1k options. So I look at it as a well equipped petrol A3 with a free battery and electric motor. That happens to do >100 mpg :)
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They might claim a 32 mile range, but almost 6 months experience with our e-tron says that you'll be lucky to see half that driving normally. But despite that, I love it. It's averaged 112mpg over 6,000 miles, which only includes 3 long (more than 350 mile) round trips.
On a trip back from Hull (280m miles, starting with no charge, it averaged 54 mpg and 62 mph. I'm not sure that is a penalty on a standard 150PS petrol A3 is it?
I will certainly never buy another diesel... And I have to say it's hard to feel the extra weight in normal use; the car feels remarkably balanced, perhaps because the extra weigh is low down at the back and counterbalances the front heavy nature of a Front wheel drive car!
Though, I haven't gone completely eco... I have just bought (well, leased) a BMW with a proper 6 cylinder petrol engine, rear wheel drive and a manual gearbox :)
When fully EVs have a longer range (300 miles plus) then I'll commit to them fully!
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>> They might claim a 32 mile range, but almost 6 months experience with our e-tron says that
>> you'll be lucky to see half that driving normally.
Wouldn't disappoint me. How much is that per mile in pence?
>> On a trip back from Hull... starting with no charge, it averaged 54 mpg and 62 mph. I
At 62mph I'd beat 54mpg from the 1.4TFSi S-Tronic A3 I have. I could do an average of 75mph and get close to 50mpg with ease.
>> I will certainly never buy another diesel...
I've liked a turbo petrol engine again. Had turbo petrol engines (and latterly diesels) since 1999 due to emissions. Only went for diesels because of CO2 based taxation.
>> And I have to say it's hard to feel the extra weight in normal use
Good to hear. I notice the difference of not having a diesel engine at the front that's for sure.
>> Though, I haven't gone completely eco... I have just bought (well, leased) a BMW with a
>> proper 6 cylinder petrol engine, rear wheel drive and a manual gearbox :)
Should got got a 330e
>> When fully EVs have a longer range (300 miles plus) then I'll commit to them fully!
I'll see how my brother's Tesla does.
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>> Wouldn't disappoint me. How much is that per mile in pence?
Very roughly, it's a 7kWh charge for 18 miles. From memory I think we pay around 10p per kWh. So just under 4p per mile
>> At 62mph I'd beat 54mpg from the 1.4TFSi S-Tronic A3 I have. I could do
>> an average of 75mph and get close to 50mpg with ease.
The 62mph average over 280 miles included all of the M62 and some of the M1 at speeds somewhat in excess of that, and 40 miles at the southern end of cross country A roads driven enthusiastically... I'm pretty sure at a cruise controlled 75 on the motorway I'd have averaged more than the 54mpg I got... Interestingly the car claimed that around 1/3 of the mileage for the journey was 'emissions free'. It's very good at coasting as well as generating electricity from regenerative braking that it then uses on a light throttle to maintain speed on the motorway. Only works below 82mph though - above that no electric motor input...
>> Should got got a 330e
Haha...I had actually ordered one before we bought the e-tron. It had a very long lead time, and once we'd bought one PHEV I decided that having another was a bit pointless. Besides, I wanted a convertible :)
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>> The cost seems incredibly cheap, are you on a econ7 rate? I know someone with
>> a leaf, i think it's costs him about a fiver a week to commute.
Approx 22KW to "fill up", and a charge goes about 100 miles.
Cost at home, 10p per KW, hence couple of quid in total. So about 2p per mile. I don't have economy 7 so could potentially be even cheaper if I did.
Cost at work (I do pay them) is only 5p per KW, so about 1p per mile.
Cost when plugging into a standard 3 pin socket at my mums or Mrs C's mum's is zero, as they don't want paying. So all those miles are free (to me).
Cost when plugged into the few public chargers I've tried out and about have all so far been free, so again, another 100 miles for nothing here and there. None of those were motorway rapids, which do now have a cost.
Last edited by: Crankcase on Tue 26 Jul 16 at 14:54
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I think our e7 rate is about 4p in the middle of the night. Do the home chargers have a timer to choose the start time? How long for a full charge on the home charger vs a three pin plug charge?
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No, the timer bit is in the car itself (in mine and I think the Leaf, I expect the others are the same).
You tell the car when it can charge, if you want - even has a little weekly calendar built in so you can have different times on different days of the week. As we don't have E7 I've never used it though, just have it set to "plug in and charge".
As to how long, that's not actually the right question, although I'll answer it. For the Zoe, on a home charger (7KW) two to three hours. On a three pin plug, 6 to 10.
BUT - you never charge from zero, because the only way to get to a charger if you're at zero is on a flatbed! So I'm always starting from something like 20% minimum. Also, you don't always need to charge fully anyway.
So the three pin I will plug in for perhaps a couple of hours when visiting, and it will charge enough to get me 30 odd miles home again. Then I might put it on the home charger for an hour, and it will be full.
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Thanks, I didn't know about the timer built in the car. It does sound cheap to run.
I've seen Renault fluenze (?) down to about £5000 i wonder what they are like now they are a few years old. Not really suitable for me, in terms of charging, right now but electric cars do interest me.
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PHEVS make a lot of sense for company car drivers if the CO2 is under 50g/mile.
I would buy an electric car in a heartbeat if they were priced properly and had the range that made them useful for my job (I need to be able to do 600 miles in a day) so 400 miles range before a recharge would be the minimal acceptable to give me home to say Manchester mileage and 100 miles spare. Charge up whilst I am at a meeting then return.
As electric cars don't have a gearbox and have a simpler motor they should be much cheaper to manufacture in the long term when economies of scale kick in, though I expect that the batteries will cost a fair amount.
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Those darned electrical cars again - mikeyb
